Irish Debt Clock?

ScumLord

jumpguy wrote: »

The money is going to things like child benefit, public sector wages, unemployment benefit, carer benefit, capital (once-off) expenses like building new roads, hospitals etc.

The money is coming from income tax and excise duty, customs duty, etc.

Unfortunately, we're spending more money on the former, than we are gaining by the latter.

Not that money, the money to the banks. They're inventing money left right and centre, why don't they just keep inventing more? This is what get's me about how the world is working, a piece of paper with the wrong numbers on it somewhere brought the real world to a grinding halt. I know it's not as simple as that but that's a basics of it as far as I'm concerned. The real resources available to humanity didn't change. It's not like food or oil disappeared overnight or people woke up one morning and they're legs where missing.

That's a stupid system imo.

gurramok

About 168,000 private sector jobs were lost since the start of the year, CSO figures released this week.
About 3,000 lost their jobs in the public sector.

Elements of both sides including the govt are to blame for the mess.

Solution is to benchmark backwards, its fairest.

Idbatterim

they should kick the unions out of leinster house and shut the door!

Darragh29

Darragh29 wrote: »

I've a problem with anyone getting child benefit. Those that actually need it now, as distinct from those that don't, need to be dealt with by different means. They need support and education to lift them out of poverty, but there is no justification on earth for those on incomes of 100K upwards getting child benefit.

Idbatterim wrote: »

they WE should kick the unions out of leinster house and shut the door!

Fixed.

dvpower

annabellee77 wrote: »

Nail on the head.
The stupidity on here by some is actually astounding at times. Normally I'd be right up for a debate on issues but on principle I'd only end up patronising people!

I think you may be missing the point. Who caused the problem is one (rather academic) question.

Who has to pay for it is another question; the answer to this is easier; taxpayers through higher taxes, our children through government debt and the public services through cuts.

4zn76tysfajdxp

It was my fault, sorry everyone!

annabellee77

not yet wrote: »

Some stupid fcuking planks on here seem to think the public sector is the reason we are in this sh1tt......fcuk me... how brain dead does someone have to be to think that.

A deaf blind man from china will tell you it was greedy fcuking builders, and bankers who worked on commission, those simple fcukers in leinster house who let this develope over years despite being told as far back as 2002 that they needed to cool the economy. imagine if we had the 2.5billion handed out in interest on ssia's in 2007.

annabellee77 wrote: »

Nail on the head.
The stupidity on here by some is actually astounding at times. Normally I'd be right up for a debate on issues but on principle I'd only end up patronising people!

Degsy wrote: »

This is typical..everybody blaming each other and nobody mentioning the fcucking government.

It was thier fault,end of.

Well it was mentioned above, but you're right........ blame lies squarely at their door and the Irish per usual are too busy b*tching and turning on each other to actually do anything about it.

annabellee77

dvpower wrote: »

I think you may be missing the point. Who caused the problem is one (rather academic) question.

Who has to pay for it is another question; the answer to this is easier; taxpayers through higher taxes, our children through government debt and the public services through cuts.

I'm not missing the point.
The point I am making is there are some posters here who blatantly haven't a clue what they're on about.

E.g. Public cuts may be part of the solution (which I agree with) but the sheer idiocy of posts like saying public service is to blame.......oh I dunno why I'm bothering...... teaching online to unknown masses ain't my forté - or my preference!

Dinter

It's true that the public sector got pay increases during the boom which certainly raised their incomes above the frankly laughable levels they were at.

Judging by the rabid vitriol expressed by most private sector employees about this though I must assume that I'm the only private sector employee who received a substantial increase during the same period.

Wow I'm blessed.

Oh and just to preempt the "job for life" brigade, tell that to the contract workers. Public sector employment is secure until a minister says otherwise.

BlackWizard

Everyone should just concentrate on saving up for that 400k euro 3bed home or concentrate on paying that 1400 euro mortgage instead of worrying about something trivial as national debt and let the professionals in government handle it. :cool:

Degsy

annabellee77 wrote: »

Well it was mentioned above, but you're right........ blame lies squarely at their door and the Irish per usual are too busy b*tching and turning on each other to actually do anything about it.

Absolutely.the cozy cartel of Fianna fail and its supporters in the property industry and banking combined with governmental incompetence has caused all this.
Fianna fail should never have been allowed to get a stranglehold oin this country in the forst place,they've done nothing but improve life for themselves and thier hangers-on and fcuck everybody else.
Anybody who has read the book about Charles Haughy "The Boss" would realise the country has been run by nothing but a gang of crooks for years.

Darragh29

Degsy wrote: »

Absolutely.the cozy cartel of Fianna fail and its supporters in the property industry and banking combined with governmental incompetence has caused all this.
Fianna fail should never have been allowed to get a stranglehold oin this country in the forst place,they've done nothing but improve life for themselves and thier hangers-on and fcuck everybody else.
Anybody who has read the book about Charles Haughy "The Boss" would realise the country has been run by nothing but a gang of crooks for years.

Yeah but what are we prepared to do about it as a constituency of voters??? FU*K ALL!!! We should be thrashing the place.

annabellee77

Degsy wrote: »

Absolutely.the cozy cartel of Fianna fail and its supporters in the property industry and banking combined with governmental incompetence has caused all this.
Fianna fail should never have been allowed to get a stranglehold oin this country in the forst place,they've done nothing but improve life for themselves and thier hangers-on and fcuck everybody else.
Anybody who has read the book about Charles Haughy "The Boss" would realise the country has been run by nothing but a gang of crooks for years.

Degsy.....I could've written your post myself......we're on the same page myself.....if everyone else would cop the f**k on and realise it's their incompetence that have led us here.
Like you say, they did (DO) nothing but improve life for themselves and thier hangers-on and fcuck everybody else! (Oh they make me so angry!:mad:)

dan719

dan719 wrote: »

No one is asking you to give a how new pay scale for the profession. Why not give a single figure 'for a nurse working in intensive care afterr graduating say five years ago and working since.' How much do you feel this test case should be paid? it's a simple question.

Ok its quite complicated to give exact figures, but an intensive care nurse would earn about 40k per year before tax, this would be about 3k more than a normal staff nurse as intensive care nurses get paid more. But after 30 years the same nurse would only be on about 50k per year. Now that 40k in the public sector is less than someone in the private sector gets due to the pension levy.

I would say 50k after 5 years and incrementing up to about 65k over the years, but not managment.

Now nurse managers are very underpaid. A nurse manager(who would report to the director of nursing(matron)) organizing all the nursing staff, or nursing support staff in a hospital would earn about 65k before tax. In the private sector with the hours, stress and responsibility 100k would be the least they would earn in a similar job.

annabellee77

Darragh29 wrote: »

Yeah but what are we prepared to do about it as a constituency of voters??? FU*K ALL!!! We should be thrashing the place.

That's one big problem in this country, the "ah sure" attitude.......the Irish are all mouth and no action..... If we could deal with this pathetic apathy mindset there is in this country it would be a step in the right direction.... cant see it happening anytime soon though .... Just look at these boards, all pointing the finger at each other and bickering over who has this/should have that...... No point in a few, everyone needs to act....

thelordofcheese

annabellee77 wrote: »

Degsy.....I could've written your post myself......we're on the same page myself.....if everyone else would cop the f**k on and realise it's their incompetence that have led us here.
Like you say, they did (DO) nothing but improve life for themselves and thier hangers-on and fcuck everybody else! (Oh they make me so angry!:mad:)

If only it were so stupidly black and white. irish businesses have done more on their own to screw themselves and us by extension than "de gubberment", but feel free to wheel out that pinata.

Darragh29

annabellee77 wrote: »

That's one big problem in this country, the "ah sure" attitude.......the Irish are all mouth and no action..... If we could deal with this pathetic apathy mindset there is in this country it would be a step in the right direction.... cant see it happening anytime soon though .... Just look at these boards, all pointing the finger at each other and bickering over who has this/should have that...... No point in a few, everyone needs to act....

+1, I'm ashamed of my Irish nationality and I mean that. I'm ashamed to be from a country of people who will take a stand for absolutely nothing. Our forefathers ran the British out of this country. They fought TB, famine, poverty, tenements, plague, and we can't even deal with two dozen wasters who have wrecked our country through corruption and greed.

annabellee77

thelordofcheese wrote: »

If only it were so stupidly black and white. irish businesses have done more on their own to screw themselves and us by extension than "de gubberment", but feel free to wheel out that pinata.

Fianna Fáil supporter one assumes?

thelordofcheese

annabellee77 wrote: »

Fianna Fáil supporter one assumes?

Only because you're lazy.

You can't lobby constantly for a free and deregulated market and then cry foul when it all goes wrong.

SEPT 23 1989

annabellee77 wrote: »

Fianna Fáil supporter one assumes?

surely they dont exist anymore

dvpower

annabellee77 wrote: »

That's one big problem in this country, the "ah sure" attitude.......the Irish are all mouth and no action..... If we could deal with this pathetic apathy mindset there is in this country it would be a step in the right direction.... cant see it happening anytime soon though .... Just look at these boards, all pointing the finger at each other and bickering over who has this/should have that...... No point in a few, everyone needs to act....

Pot calling the kettle black, I think.

Have a look at your some of own wonderful contributions to this thread for examples of pointing the finger and bickering:

"if everyone else would cop the f**k on"
"the Irish are all mouth and no action"
"Irish per usual are too busy b*tching and turning on each other "
"The stupidity on here by some is actually astounding at times"
"I'm laughing my derriere off at OP claims that Public Servants are to blame for the recession etc etc. Any idiot knows that's not the case
Go back to school"
"oh I dunno why I'm bothering...... teaching online to unknown masses ain't my forté - or my preference"
"If you knew anything you'd know I couldn't access this site if I was."
"Advice - don't go trolling without knowing proper facts."

thelordofcheese

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

surely they dont exist anymore

at this point i'd vote FF just to spite people who think that "oh you're a Fianna Fáil supporter" constitutes an intelligent response.

annabellee77

dvpower wrote: »

Pot calling the kettle black, I think.

Have a look at your some of own wonderful contributions to this thread for examples of pointing the finger and bickering:

"if everyone else would cop the f**k on"
"the Irish are all mouth and no action"
"Irish per usual are too busy b*tching and turning on each other "
"The stupidity on here by some is actually astounding at times"
"I'm laughing my derriere off at OP claims that Public Servants are to blame for the recession etc etc. Any idiot knows that's not the case
Go back to school"
"oh I dunno why I'm bothering...... teaching online to unknown masses ain't my forté - or my preference"
"If you knew anything you'd know I couldn't access this site if I was."
"Advice - don't go trolling without knowing proper facts."

Wow!! Talk about making an effort to go through someones posts!

I'm not blaming anyone on here for the problems in the country at the moment. It's not the general worker by and large (thats a whole other thread though). I was making the point that the public in general in this country tend to turn on each other rather than looking where we should. Can't make that point without criticising something. It would be IMPOSSIBLE to write on a thread like this without anyone expressing an opinion (which I have) and not everyone's gonna like it.
I don't like some opinions and I've said so. (Am sure they care little.)
Some won't like mine. (I care little.)
It's an internet forum. What do you expect.

Dinter

The worst case scenario is the country reverts back to where we were before a succession of Fianna Fail governments built and then subsequently squandered the State's largesse. Reading about the impending public spending cuts, tax hikes, mass emigration and mass unemployment I imagine it won't a very pleasant place to revisit.

The Celtic Tiger period was like a very nice holiday from the grinding poverty that Ireland usually suffers.

For the moment we need to stop whinging. The boom is gone and hopefully we all got something from it (apart from negative equity). The ability to get up, dust yourself down and look to the future without wallowing in begrudgery and resentment is the only thing that will make the next couple of years manageable. Oh yeah and stop voting for the status quo!!

Darragh29

annabellee77 wrote: »

Wow!! Talk about making an effort to go through someones posts!

I'm not blaming anyone on here for the problems in the country at the moment. It's not the general worker by and large (thats a whole other thread though).
It would be IMPOSSIBLE to write on a thread like this without anyone expressing an opinion (which I have) and not everyone's gonna like it.
I don't like some opinions and I've said so. (Am sure they care little.)
Some won't like mine. (I care little.)
It's an internet forum. What do you expect.

Every man and woman who is standing on Irish soil today is responsible for letting this situation worsen. Just today Cowen comes out and says that unemployment will smash through 500,000 people on the dole by the end of the year and it will continue to rise next year. Every person of voting age who tolerates this approach to managing a country is responsible for this situation we are in.

SEPT 23 1989

Dinter wrote: »

The worst case scenario is the country reverts back to where we were before a succession of Fianna Fail governments built and then subsequently squandered the State's largesse. Reading about the impending public spending cuts, tax hikes, mass emigration and mass unemployment I imagine it won't a very pleasant place to revisit.

The Celtic Tiger period was like a very nice holiday from the grinding poverty that Ireland usually suffers.

For the moment we need to stop whinging. The boom is gone and hopefully we all got something from it (apart from negative equity). The ability to get up, dust yourself down and look to the future without wallowing in begrudgery and resentment is the only thing that will make the next couple of years manageable. Oh yeah and stop voting for the status quo!!

and we will do much better in major football tournaments
so its not all bad:)

annabellee77

Darragh29 wrote: »

Every man and woman who is standing on Irish soil today is responsible for letting this situation worsen. Just today Cowen comes out and says that unemployment will smash through 500,000 people on the dole by the end of the year and it will continue to rise next year. Every person of voting age who tolerates this approach to managing a country is responsible for this situation we are in.

Fair point. You're right.

Lack of accountability is a huge factor here (in many areas not just politics) and the answer here lies with the electorate.

Darragh29

annabellee77 wrote: »

Fair point. You're right.

Lack of accountability is a huge factor here (in many areas not just politics) and the answer here lies with the electorate.

If we gave the slightest iota of a fu*k about ourselves, our children or our country, we would be out on the streets and we wouldn't come off the streets until this government had fallen. Everything Brian Cowen has touched since he got a ministry has been a complete disaster. He ran out of Health claiming it was like Angola and had every sector of the health service on strike before he left. No matter what this man has touched, it has been an unmitigated disaster, yet somehow we think he will be able to lead the country out of the crisis it is now in, despite evidence every single hour of every day, to the contrary. Either we are all stupid or we are all cowards, I fear it is the latter...

Dinter

annabellee77 wrote: »

Lack of accountability is a huge factor here (in many areas not just politics) and the answer here lies with the electorate.

Almost on a par with lack of foresight.

thelordofcheese

Darragh29 wrote: »

If we gave the slightest iota of a fu*k about ourselves, our children or our country, we would be out on the streets and we wouldn't come off the streets until this government had fallen. Everything Brian Cowen has touched since he got a ministry has been a complete disaster. He ran out of Health claiming it was like Angola and had every sector of the health service on strike before he left. No matter what this man has touched, it has been an unmitigated disaster, yet somehow we think he will be able to lead the country out of the crisis it is now in, despite evidence every single hour of every day, to the contrary. Either we are all stupid or we are all cowards, I fear it is the latter...

I assume after the peoples glorious revolution jobs will magically appear and everything will be sweetness and light?

Cool, sign me up.