Irish Debt Clock?

darkman2

I take it this is accurate?


http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

....man we are in serious sh*t:pac:


We need to sack half the sponging civil servants now and cut the wages in half for the rest. It's the only way to be sure.

The burden of adjustment has been entirely borne by the private sector, at a time when, remarkably, the Government has helped itself and the rest of the public sector to an unprecedented rise in real incomes (of 6 p.c. in real terms, according to latest CSO figures) at a time of economic collapse, redundancy, and pay reductions in the private sector.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Not one under performing public servant has yet been sacked due to the recession in this country - not one.


EDIT: If a mod wants to move this to the economy forum please do, I put it in the wrong place:(

easyeason3

Jesus I hate when people automatically point the finger at the public service for wasting money.

Yes there are a few, few, of them in the civil service that should never have got in because they are lazy & not willing to pull their own weight but because they are protected by unions nothing can be done.

But there are an awful lot of civil service workers that do actually do a decent days work but still get dogs abuse for it from the average Joe Soap on the street.

What I would like to see is a system in which the lazy ones are weeded out for good but you're going to be talking an awful lot of money to do that.

aidan_walsh

Could be worse.

not yet

darkman2 wrote: »

I take it this is accurate?


http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

....man we are in serious sh*t:pac:


We need to sack half the sponging civil servants now and cut the wages in half for the rest. It's the only way to be sure.
..............................................................................................................................
Funny guy eh.............

The next time you are in A+E and are being looked after by a nurse working her ass off, ask her if she's a sponger.....

Most of these (spongers) your taking about have trained for up to 5 years on little more then subsistance,are well educated,well motivated and work fcuking hard....

so take your stupid fcuking comments and blow them out your arse. some people having had it good for so long now want to turn on teachers,nurses,prison staff etc.

Quazzie

OP is probably the same type of person that complains, when they get a hospital appointment because its so far in the future, or they have to wait so long for a driving test.

so take your stupid fcuking comments and blow them out your arse

Well said!

darkman2

not yet wrote: »

darkman2 wrote: »

I take it this is accurate?


http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

....man we are in serious sh*t:pac:


We need to sack half the sponging civil servants now and cut the wages in half for the rest. It's the only way to be sure.
..............................................................................................................................
Funny guy eh.............

The next time you are in A+E and are being looked after by a nurse working her ass off, ask her if she's a sponger.....

Most of these (spongers) your taking about have trained for up to 5 years on little more then subsistance,are well educated,well motivated and work fcuking hard....

so take your stupid fcuking comments and blow them out your arse. some people having had it good for so long now want to turn on teachers,nurses,prison staff etc.

Since they are the ones that got us into this mess with benchmarking etc getting 10% + pay rises each year and pensions us wealth creators in the private sector would have to pay millions to obtain maybe it is you that should STFU and take your medicine/punishment - whatever way you want to see it. These are the same nurses you talk about that I see in hospitals 5 at a time chatting innocently away to each other doing NOTHING - Or the teachers like that woman on the news a few weeks back moaning to the minister about only having 90 euro to herself for the week whilst paying off a 400,000 euro mortgage? - you know, the same teachers that are the best paid in Europe with 6 months holidays - or the two civil servants I know that are on their 3RD HOLIDAY this year for 2 weeks....give us a fcuking break. We know whats going on.

Run_to_da_hills

We had a debt clock and it was removed a few years ago out of embarrassment.

It wouldn't hold enough digits for todays debt.
http://kimmixa.googlepages.com/Chime.jpg/Chime-full.jpg

Quazzie

darkman2 wrote: »

not yet wrote: »

These are the same nurses you talk about that I see in hospitals 5 at a time chatting innocently away to each other doing NOTHING

With that statement went any credibility you had with me. Lets just hope you don't end up in a hospital soon and are proven just how wrong you are. Its easy to pick on the public sector workers as a group rather than pick individuals you think might be the problem. Are you seriously saying out hospitals are overstaffed in terms of Nurses and Doctors?

darkman2

darkman2 wrote: »

Since they are the ones that got us into this mess with benchmarking etc getting 10% + pay rises each year and pensions us wealth creators in the private sector would have to pay millions to obtain maybe it is you that should STFU and take your medicine/punishment - whatever way you want to see it. These are the same nurses you talk about that I see in hospitals 5 at a time chatting innocently away to each other doing NOTHING

That is absolute bull s**t. Nurses are one of the hardest working and least appreciated people in the country. I know how hard nurses work and what goes on in hospitals so please stop talking crap.

darkman2 wrote: »

you know, the same teachers that are the best paid in Europe with 6 months holidays

We also have one of the best education systems in the world and teachers deserve good pay its a tough job which a lot of people like yourself dont realise.

darkman2 wrote: »

or the two civil servants I know that are on their 3RD HOLIDAY this year for 2 weeks....give us a fcuking break. We know whats going on.

Everybody has holiday entitlements, should we deny people time off? The holiday entitlement in the private sector is similar to to the private sector in most cases.

easyeason3

darkman2 wrote: »

not yet wrote: »

Since they are the ones that got us into this mess with benchmarking etc getting 10% + pay rises each year and pensions us wealth creators in the private sector would have to pay millions to obtain maybe it is you that should STFU and take your medicine/punishment - whatever way you want to see it. These are the same nurses you talk about that I see in hospitals 5 at a time chatting innocently away to each other doing NOTHING - Or the teachers like that woman on the news a few weeks back moaning to the minister about only having 90 euro to herself for the week whilst paying off a 400,000 euro mortgage? - you know, the same teachers that are the best paid in Europe with 6 months holidays - or the two civil servants I know that are on their 3RD HOLIDAY this year for 2 weeks....give us a fcuking break. We know whats going on.

Nothing to do with a global banking crisis?

Nothing to do with the construction industry becoming non existent?

Nothing to do with property developers gambling with the banks money, sorry our money?

Nothing to do with industries moving to other countries because the private sector wage is astronomical here compared to other countries?

Nothing to do with most people in this country, regardless of profession, spending like a lunatic for the last few years?

If you're going to make an argument then at least make it good instead of picking one target & ranting about it.

Pace2008

Absolute Irish Sun nonsense.

ejmaztec

It's best to start on the overpaid dead wood at the top, because these people plainly couldn't run a piss-up in a brewery. When they get replaced by those who actually know what they're doing, then that's half the battle to properly organising the rest of it.

annabellee77

darkman2 wrote: »

not yet wrote: »

Since they are the ones that got us into this mess with benchmarking etc getting 10% + pay rises each year and pensions us wealth creators in the private sector would have to pay millions to obtain maybe it is you that should STFU and take your medicine/punishment - whatever way you want to see it. These are the same nurses you talk about that I see in hospitals 5 at a time chatting innocently away to each other doing NOTHING - Or the teachers like that woman on the news a few weeks back moaning to the minister about only having 90 euro to herself for the week whilst paying off a 400,000 euro mortgage? - you know, the same teachers that are the best paid in Europe with 6 months holidays - or the two civil servants I know that are on their 3RD HOLIDAY this year for 2 weeks....give us a fcuking break. We know whats going on.

This is the funniest post I've read in a long time...... we're in this mess cos the public service benchmarking etc :D:D:D:D:D:D:D You couldn't make it up.............
Go back to school :rolleyes:

Katarn1

darkman2 wrote: »

We need to sack half the sponging civil servants now and cut the wages in half for the rest. It's the only way to be sure.

And what will the result of this be? The country ends up tens of thousands more people on the welfare. With queues in the welfare offices escalating because there are no civil servants to deal with the increase. Potential chaos. And who will deal with this public unrest? We'll have less Gardai.

Hardly a long term solution.

Beanstalk

aidan_walsh wrote: »

Could be worse.

Holy ****, i thought all those numbers were just going to go on fire and explode or something....

darkman2

The reason private sector wages are almost as high as the public sector is because of benchmarking in the public sector. It inflated wages across the economy because the private sector had to try to keep up. Thus you have a bubble and massive spending. The public sector drove wage increases in this country NOT the private sector. The government oversaw the leeches at work and gave them what they wanted. And don't get me started on social welfare. It should be halfed and means tested across the board and ideally the whole lot scrapped in future. We should be paying nobody to sit on their arse doing nothing. Give people 6 months of dole then turf them off like they do in the states. That would kick off the economy pretty damn quick.


But the public service is about to be sorted out. If the government won't do it someone else will because the country is going bankrupt. It will reach the stage where the state cannot borrow and can't pay anyone.

Oh and btw any public sector worker that thinks any private sector worker today either has the holiday entitlements they have or would dare take multiple holidays this year is deluding themselves. Private sector workers are being sacked right across the board.

humanji

ejmaztec wrote: »

It's best to start on the overpaid dead wood at the top, because these people plainly couldn't run a piss-up in a brewery. When they get replaced by those who actually know what they're doing, then that's half the battle to properly organising the rest of it.

I gave the OP the benefit of the doubt and assumed these were the people he was talking about. He soon proved me wrong.

I say we destroy that webpage and once we can't see how in debt we are, we'll be fine.

mobius42

Well, it's better than that lame death clock they presented last year. People laughed so hard their teeth fell out.

Quazzie

darkman2 wrote: »

The reason private sector wages are almost as high as the public sector is because of benchmarking in the public sector. It inflated wages across the economy because the private sector had to try to keep up. Thus you have a bubble and massive spending. The public sector drove wage increases in this country NOT the private sector. The government oversaw the leeches at work and gave them what they wanted. And don't get me started on social welfare. It should be halfed and means tested across the board and ideally the whole lot scrapped in future. We should be paying nobody to sit on their arse doing nothing. Give people 6 months of dole then turf them off like they do in the states. That would kick off the economy pretty damn quick.


But the public service is about to be sorted out. If the government won't do it someone else will because the country is going bankrupt. It will reach the stage where the state cannot borrow and can't pay anyone.

Ok now I think you're just trolling because that statement is so full of retard it isn't even funny

dan719

Quazzie wrote: »

With that statement went any credibility you had with me. Lets just hope you don't end up in a hospital soon and are proven just how wrong you are. Its easy to pick on the public sector workers as a group rather than pick individuals you think might be the problem. Are you seriously saying out hospitals are overstaffed in terms of Nurses and Doctors?

Yes.

We have 1.5 times the number of nurses per thousand population compared to the OECD average.

The major Dublin Acute hospitals have an average of 3.1 nurses per bed. Even on a three shift system, I don't think a patient each is a massive workload.:rolleyes:

We pay our consultants three times what they would earn in Finland (at PPP). We also create a system where they are disincentivised to treat public patients, and instead prefer to see private patients to charge on a per case base.

These people are overpaid and underworked. They take advantage of the emotional nature of the debate to ensure no-one challenges them on this.

darkman2

Quazzie wrote: »

Ok now I think you're just trolling because that statement is so full of retard it isn't even funny

So you tell me - were private sector workers getting 10% pay rises a year? Well? You are the one that is retarded if you cannot expose the link between benchmarking for the public sector and inflation in the economy. That inflation is what is going to bankrupt the country. What will the public sector do when they cannot be paid?

ejmaztec

mobius42 wrote: »

Well, it's better than that lame death clock they presented last year. People laughed so hard their teeth fell out.

That's because they couldn't afford dental treatment.:(

Quazzie

darkman2 wrote: »

So you tell me - were private sector workers getting 10% pay rises a year? Well? You are the one that is retarded if you cannot expose the link between benchmarking for the public sector and inflation in the economy. That inflation is what is going to bankrupt the country. What will the public sector do when they cannot be paid?

The inflated construction industry is what drove inflation, and everything associated with it, up for the ten years leading up into this one.

annabellee77

darkman2 wrote: »

So you tell me - were private sector workers getting 10% pay rises a year? Well? You are the one that is retarded if you cannot expose the link between benchmarking for the public sector and inflation in the economy. That inflation is what is going to bankrupt the country. What wil the public sector do when they cannot be paid?

Get fired lately by any chance????? :rolleyes:

Advice - don't go trolling without knowing proper facts.

darkman2

darkman2 wrote: »

So you tell me - were private sector workers getting 10% pay rises a year? Well? You are the one that is retarded if you cannot expose the link between benchmarking for the public sector and inflation in the economy. That inflation is what is going to bankrupt the country. What wil the public sector do when they cannot be paid?

Why do you care so much? you obviously have a job otherwise you wouldnt be calling for a reduction in social welfare. So you just want to see a lot of hard working people sacked and put on a reduced social welfare while you are still working.

dan719 wrote: »

Yes.

We have 1.5 times the number of nurses per thousand population compared to the OECD average.


These people are overpaid and underworked. They take advantage of the emotional nature of the debate to ensure no-one challenges them on this.

From my experience understaffing is a problem in Irish hospitals so I dont know where them figure came from. Nurses are certainly not overpaid. For the work they do they are underpaid.

darkman2

annabellee77 wrote: »

Get fired lately by any chance????? :rolleyes:

Advice - don't go trolling without knowing proper facts.

Oh, ok Mr Public Servant......so tell me, it's blatanty obvious your wages and entitlements can no longer be afforded so tell us what exactly you are going to give up to help us through the economic collapse that could see this country soon enough resemble an anarchic third world country. What will you do when you cannot be paid?

Oh and im very comfortable btw. If society does collapse here, which I fully expect probrably next year when 10 billion more has to be taken from the public service just so the country can borrow money, Im outta here.

K4t

darkman2 wrote: »

I take it this is accurate?


http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

....man we are in serious sh*t:pac:


We need to sack half the sponging civil servants now and cut the wages in half for the rest. It's the only way to be sure.




:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Not one under performing public servant has yet been sacked due to the recession in this country - not one.


EDIT: If a mod wants to move this to the economy forum please do, I put it in the wrong place:(

Why in the name of f**k would anyone do that? Luckily the mods here have some common sense.

I'm not even going to waste my time on this thread. Just the usual after hours recession ****e.

Quazzie

darkman2 wrote: »

Oh, ok Mr Public Servant.

I'm pretty sure Annabelle is a girls name

darkman2 wrote: »

.....so tell me, it's blatanty obvious your wages and entitlements can no longer be afforded so tell us what exactly you are going to give up to help us through the economic collapse that could see this country soon enough resemble and anarachic thrid world country. What will you do when you cannot be paid?

Public Sector workers took the tax hits like everyone else, and they now contribute to their pension. What more do you want? Mass resignations and go on the dole for our country?

darkman2 wrote: »

Oh and im very comfortable btw.

Thats good to hear.

Why are so worried about everyone else so?

dan719

Francesca Deafening Mailman wrote: »

Why do you care so much? you obviously have a job otherwise you wouldnt be calling for a reduction in social welfare. So you just want to see a lot of hard working people sacked and put on a reduced social welfare while you are still working.



From my experience understaffing is a problem in Irish hospitals so I dont know where them figure came from. Nurses are certainly not overpaid. For the work they do they are underpaid.

So your experience is more important then an official OECD report. :rolleyes:
See www.oecd.org

And how much you would you pay them? A million? Two million? Since they are underpaid you must have a notion of how much they should be paid?

darkman2

darkman2 wrote: »

Oh and im very comfortable btw. If society does collapse here, which I fully expect probrably next year when 10 billion more has to be taken from the public service just so the country can borrow money, Im outta here.

I would expect a person who has lost a job to feel as you do. But you say you are comfortable yet would be happy to see other people lose their jobs to keep your job secure. You would want to cop yourself on.

annabellee77

darkman2 wrote: »

Oh, ok Mr Public Servant......so tell me, it's blatanty obvious your wages and entitlements can no longer be afforded so tell us what exactly you are going to give up to help us through the economic collapse that could see this country soon enough resemble and anarachic thrid world country. What will you do when you cannot be paid?

Oh and im very comfortable btw.

Who said I'm a public servant??? If you knew anything you'd know I couldn't access this site if I was.

"very comfortable" eh....... Daddy a banker????:rolleyes:

And "could see this country soon enough resemble and anarachic thrid world country"
PMSL:D........I so have to send the link to this thread on to people to give em a laugh on a Wednesday!!

It's spelt 'anarchic' BTW........

easyeason3

darkman2 wrote: »

Oh, ok Mr Public Servant......so tell me, it's blatanty obvious your wages and entitlements can no longer be afforded so tell us what exactly you are going to give up to help us through the economic collapse that could see this country soon enough resemble an anarchic third world country. What will you do when you cannot be paid?

Oh and im very comfortable btw. If society does collapse here, which I fully expect probrably next year when 10 billion more has to be taken from the public service just so the country can borrow money, Im outta here.

Why wait until things go belly up here before you go? I'm sure there's a few posters here that would gladly help you pack your bags.

darkman2

Francesca Deafening Mailman wrote: »

I would expect a person who has lost a job to feel as you do. But you say you are comfortable yet would be happy to see other people lose their jobs to keep your job secure. You would want to cop yourself on.

I have a very well paid job and I am happy to have it.

I don't WANT to see anyone lose their jobs - but if public sector workers don't take big pay cuts, and I mean BIG paycuts, and except big redundancies then MY country, our country, is going to fail. The economy is on the brink of total collapse. That is the gravity of the situation.

These public servants who keep moaning - we won't have the money to pay them. No one will lend this country money. Our credit rating is already downgraded twice. This is only going one direction. We don't have much time left to get the house in order.

jape

not yet wrote: »

darkman2 wrote: »

I take it this is accurate?


http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

....man we are in serious sh*t:pac:


We need to sack half the sponging civil servants now and cut the wages in half for the rest. It's the only way to be sure.
..............................................................................................................................
Funny guy eh.............

The next time you are in A+E and are being looked after by a nurse working her ass off, ask her if she's a sponger.....

Most of these (spongers) your taking about have trained for up to 5 years on little more then subsistance,are well educated,well motivated and work fcuking hard....

so take your stupid fcuking comments and blow them out your arse. some people having had it good for so long now want to turn on teachers,nurses,prison staff etc.

"but at least they have jobs"

annabellee77

darkman2 wrote: »

I have a very well paid job and I am happy to have it.

I don't WANT to see anyone lose their jobs - but if public sector workers don't take big pay cuts, and I mean BIG paycuts, and except big redundancies then MY country, our country, is going to fail. The economy is on the brink of total collapse. That is the gravity of the situation.

I think you mean ACCEPT big redundancies.....

easyeason3

darkman2 wrote: »

I have a very well paid job and I am happy to have it.

I don't WANT to see anyone lose their jobs - but if public sector workers don't take big pay cuts, and I mean BIG paycuts, and except big redundancies then MY country, our country, is going to fail. The economy is on the brink of total collapse. That is the gravity of the situation.

These public servants who keeping money - we won't have the money to pay them. No one will lend this country money. Our credit rating is already downgraded twice. This is only going one direction. We don't have much time left to get the house in order.

Are you backtracking a bit because you didn't get the reaction you were hoping for?

spank_inferno

dan719 wrote: »

So your experience is more important then an official OECD report. :rolleyes:
See www.oecd.org

And how much you would you pay them? A million? Two million? Since they are underpaid you must have a notion of how much they should be paid?

As if Nurses are underpaid!
Irish nurses are amongst the hightest paid in the world and work the same 36-40hrs per week the rest of us do.

Not all of them are florence Nightingale!

dan719

dan719 wrote: »

So your experience is more important then an official OECD report. :rolleyes:
See www.oecd.org

And how much you would you pay them? A million? Two million? Since they are underpaid you must have a notion of how much they should be paid?

My experience is from family members who have often worked in understaffed wards or who were overseeing wards and not being able to get the required number of staff.

Im not going to sit here and outline an improved pay scale for nurses, I dont have time.

dan719

spank_inferno wrote: »

As if Nurses are underpaid!
Irish nurses are amongst the hightest paid in the country and work the 36-40hrs per week the rest of us do.

Not all of them are florence Nightingale!

Eh I never said they were. In fact I was arguing the opposite. Perhaps you should read the thread next time.

markpb

annabellee77 wrote: »

darkman2 wrote: »

This is the funniest post I've read in a long time...... we're in this mess cos the public service benchmarking etc :D:D:D:D:D:D:D You couldn't make it up.............
Go back to school :rolleyes:

Do you think if the banking crisis hadn't happened we could have continued to pay benchmarking increases and growing the size of the public and civil sectors?

Quazzie

FFS Will people please learn to fúcking quote properly :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:&:mad:

darkman2

easyeason3 wrote: »

Are you backtracking a bit because you didn't get the reaction you were hoping for?

I see the nurses and public servants are coming out in force on this thread - most if not all of them trade union members of course - the ones that had a big part to play in the collapse of the country but claim everyone else should pay except them to repair it.


As the private sector shrinks inexorably by the month the more vulnerable public servants become. Mass dismissals are inevitable.

dan719

Francesca Deafening Mailman wrote: »

My experience is from family members who have often worked in understaffed wards or who were overseeing wards and not being able to get the required number of staff.

Im not going to sit here and outline an improved pay scale for nurses, I dont have time.

And my claim is based on facts gathered in surveys. In notice you didn;t respond to the number of nurses per bed in the major Dublin hospitals (3.1 per to remind you).

No one is asking you to give a how new pay scale for the profession. Why not give a single figure 'for a nurse working in intensive care afterr graduating say five years ago and working since.' How much do you feel this test case should be paid? it's a simple question.

darkman2

It does not stop there - there is 1 manager to every 5 nurses aswell.

easyeason3

darkman2 wrote: »

I see the nurses and public servants are coming out in force on this thread - most if not all of them trade union members of course - the ones that had a big part to play in the collapse of the country but claim everyone else should pay except them to repair it.


As the private sector shrinks inexorably by the month the more vulnerable public servants become. Mass dismissals are inevitable.

I'm not in the public sector. I worked in it previously & saw first hand exactly what goes on.
98% of people I worked with could not be faulted so that is why it annoys me so much when I hear people painting all of the public sector with the one brush.

And they didn't have a bigger part than any of the rest of us in the economic downturn.

Mass dismissals will never happen because each & every public servant will strike together, regardless of department, which will mean little or no vital services provided.

annabellee77

markpb wrote: »

annabellee77 wrote: »

Do you think if the banking crisis hadn't happened we could have continued to pay benchmarking increases and growing the size of the public and civil sectors?

Not arguing for or against benchmarking, I'm laughing my derriere off at OP claims that Public Servants are to blame for the recession etc etc. Any idiot knows that's not the case.

darkman2

easyeason3 wrote: »

I'm not in the public sector. I worked in it previously & saw first hand exactly what goes on.
98% of people I worked with could not be faulted so that is why it annoys me so much when I hear people painting all of the public sector with the one brush.

And they didn't have a bigger part than any of the rest of us in the economic downturn.

Mass dismissals will never happen because each & every public servant will strike together, regardless of department, which will mean little or no vital services provided.

They did have a bigger part to play. Their trade unions pushed for obscene pay rises which in turn pushed up prices because the private sector had to keep pace. They started a vicious circle of wage and price increases in persuance of their own greed. Ironically they never benefitted because the cost of living kept up and in the process the country is now on it's knees.

And, yes, there will be mass dismissals - you have no idea of how bad this is going to get do you? This is just the start. The country won't be able to borrow to pay the wages it is currently borrowing to pay. That is a fact of life. The ECB is atm buying Irish bonds because no one else wants them - they did not tell you that either?

Quazzie

darkman2 wrote: »

The ECB is atm buying Irish bonds because no one else wants them - they did not tell you that either?

I don't understand the question.

Joey the lips

This is cool although its funny my wages does the exact same in reverse.:D

easyeason3

darkman2 wrote: »

They did have a bigger part to play. Their trade unions pushed for obscene pay rises which in turn pushed up prices because the private sector had to keep pace. They started a vicious circle of wage and price increases in persuance of their own greed. Ironically they never benefitted because to cost of living kept up and in the process the country is now on it's knees.

And, yes, there will be mass dismissals - you have no idea of how bad this is going to get do you? This is just the start. The country won't be able to borrow to pay the wages it is currently borrowing to pay. That is a fact of life. The ECB is atm buying Irish bonds because no one else wants them - they did not tell you that either?

So it's all down to the public sector is it?
Would you ever get a grip on yourself. I have friends in the public sector that would earn a hell of a lot more in the private sector given their experience & education.

There won't be mass dismissals regardless of what you think.
IT WILL NOT BE POSSIBLE.
I'd nearly like to see the government try this & for the entire public sector to go on strike just to show people like you how much of an impact it will have.

As I said already it is a GLOBAL recession, it's not just limited to us because of the public sector. Other countries are already showing signs of coming out of the recession so it stands to reason that it will have a positive effect on our economy too.

I've yet to hear you mention the banks, the property developers, the construction industry & the private companies that have left here & set up in other countries because overheads such as wages are much lower.

But maybe that doesn't suit you to mention the above.

plissken

darkman2 wrote: »

.Give people 6 months of dole then turf them off like they do in the states.

Where are you getting all of these blatantly wrong facts or are you, as I suspect, simply spewing lie after lie to defend your ever shrinking corner.

The public sector are the lee harvey oswald of the financial crisis, a patsy for the ignorant and unintelligible to lay blame upon.