Irish Debt Clock?

easyeason3 · 01-07-2009 2:41pm

darkman2 wrote: »

Oh, ok Mr Public Servant......so tell me, it's blatanty obvious your wages and entitlements can no longer be afforded so tell us what exactly you are going to give up to help us through the economic collapse that could see this country soon enough resemble an anarchic third world country. What will you do when you cannot be paid?

Oh and im very comfortable btw. If society does collapse here, which I fully expect probrably next year when 10 billion more has to be taken from the public service just so the country can borrow money, Im outta here.

Why wait until things go belly up here before you go? I'm sure there's a few posters here that would gladly help you pack your bags.

darkman2 · 01-07-2009 2:42pm

Francesca Deafening Mailman wrote: »

I would expect a person who has lost a job to feel as you do. But you say you are comfortable yet would be happy to see other people lose their jobs to keep your job secure. You would want to cop yourself on.

I have a very well paid job and I am happy to have it.

I don't WANT to see anyone lose their jobs - but if public sector workers don't take big pay cuts, and I mean BIG paycuts, and except big redundancies then MY country, our country, is going to fail. The economy is on the brink of total collapse. That is the gravity of the situation.

These public servants who keep moaning - we won't have the money to pay them. No one will lend this country money. Our credit rating is already downgraded twice. This is only going one direction. We don't have much time left to get the house in order.

jape · 01-07-2009 2:44pm

not yet wrote: »

darkman2 wrote: »

I take it this is accurate?

http://www.financedublin.com/debtclock.php

....man we are in serious sh*t:pac:

We need to sack half the sponging civil servants now and cut the wages in half for the rest. It's the only way to be sure.
..............................................................................................................................
Funny guy eh.............

The next time you are in A+E and are being looked after by a nurse working her ass off, ask her if she's a sponger.....

Most of these (spongers) your taking about have trained for up to 5 years on little more then subsistance,are well educated,well motivated and work fcuking hard....

so take your stupid fcuking comments and blow them out your arse. some people having had it good for so long now want to turn on teachers,nurses,prison staff etc.

"but at least they have jobs"

annabellee77 · 01-07-2009 2:45pm

darkman2 wrote: »

I have a very well paid job and I am happy to have it.

I don't WANT to see anyone lose their jobs - but if public sector workers don't take big pay cuts, and I mean BIG paycuts, and except big redundancies then MY country, our country, is going to fail. The economy is on the brink of total collapse. That is the gravity of the situation.

I think you mean ACCEPT big redundancies.....

easyeason3 · 01-07-2009 2:46pm

darkman2 wrote: »

I have a very well paid job and I am happy to have it.

I don't WANT to see anyone lose their jobs - but if public sector workers don't take big pay cuts, and I mean BIG paycuts, and except big redundancies then MY country, our country, is going to fail. The economy is on the brink of total collapse. That is the gravity of the situation.

These public servants who keeping money - we won't have the money to pay them. No one will lend this country money. Our credit rating is already downgraded twice. This is only going one direction. We don't have much time left to get the house in order.

Are you backtracking a bit because you didn't get the reaction you were hoping for?

spank_inferno · 01-07-2009 2:47pm

dan719 wrote: »

So your experience is more important then an official OECD report. :rolleyes:
See www.oecd.org

And how much you would you pay them? A million? Two million? Since they are underpaid you must have a notion of how much they should be paid?

As if Nurses are underpaid!
Irish nurses are amongst the hightest paid in the world and work the same 36-40hrs per week the rest of us do.

Not all of them are florence Nightingale!

01-07-2009 2:47pm

dan719 wrote: »

So your experience is more important then an official OECD report. :rolleyes:
See www.oecd.org

And how much you would you pay them? A million? Two million? Since they are underpaid you must have a notion of how much they should be paid?

My experience is from family members who have often worked in understaffed wards or who were overseeing wards and not being able to get the required number of staff.

Im not going to sit here and outline an improved pay scale for nurses, I dont have time.

dan719 · 01-07-2009 2:48pm

spank_inferno wrote: »

As if Nurses are underpaid!
Irish nurses are amongst the hightest paid in the country and work the 36-40hrs per week the rest of us do.

Not all of them are florence Nightingale!

Eh I never said they were. In fact I was arguing the opposite. Perhaps you should read the thread next time.

markpb · 01-07-2009 2:48pm

annabellee77 wrote: »

darkman2 wrote: »

This is the funniest post I've read in a long time...... we're in this mess cos the public service benchmarking etc :D:D:D:D:D:D:D You couldn't make it up.............
Go back to school :rolleyes:

Do you think if the banking crisis hadn't happened we could have continued to pay benchmarking increases and growing the size of the public and civil sectors?

Quazzie · 01-07-2009 2:50pm

FFS Will people please learn to fúcking quote properly :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:&:mad:

darkman2 · 01-07-2009 2:51pm

easyeason3 wrote: »

Are you backtracking a bit because you didn't get the reaction you were hoping for?

I see the nurses and public servants are coming out in force on this thread - most if not all of them trade union members of course - the ones that had a big part to play in the collapse of the country but claim everyone else should pay except them to repair it.

As the private sector shrinks inexorably by the month the more vulnerable public servants become. Mass dismissals are inevitable.

dan719 · 01-07-2009 2:51pm

Francesca Deafening Mailman wrote: »

My experience is from family members who have often worked in understaffed wards or who were overseeing wards and not being able to get the required number of staff.

Im not going to sit here and outline an improved pay scale for nurses, I dont have time.

And my claim is based on facts gathered in surveys. In notice you didn;t respond to the number of nurses per bed in the major Dublin hospitals (3.1 per to remind you).

No one is asking you to give a how new pay scale for the profession. Why not give a single figure 'for a nurse working in intensive care afterr graduating say five years ago and working since.' How much do you feel this test case should be paid? it's a simple question.

darkman2 · 01-07-2009 2:54pm

It does not stop there - there is 1 manager to every 5 nurses aswell.

easyeason3 · 01-07-2009 2:58pm

darkman2 wrote: »

I see the nurses and public servants are coming out in force on this thread - most if not all of them trade union members of course - the ones that had a big part to play in the collapse of the country but claim everyone else should pay except them to repair it.

As the private sector shrinks inexorably by the month the more vulnerable public servants become. Mass dismissals are inevitable.

I'm not in the public sector. I worked in it previously & saw first hand exactly what goes on.
98% of people I worked with could not be faulted so that is why it annoys me so much when I hear people painting all of the public sector with the one brush.

And they didn't have a bigger part than any of the rest of us in the economic downturn.

Mass dismissals will never happen because each & every public servant will strike together, regardless of department, which will mean little or no vital services provided.

annabellee77 · 01-07-2009 3:00pm

markpb wrote: »

annabellee77 wrote: »

Do you think if the banking crisis hadn't happened we could have continued to pay benchmarking increases and growing the size of the public and civil sectors?

Not arguing for or against benchmarking, I'm laughing my derriere off at OP claims that Public Servants are to blame for the recession etc etc. Any idiot knows that's not the case.

darkman2 · 01-07-2009 3:03pm

easyeason3 wrote: »

I'm not in the public sector. I worked in it previously & saw first hand exactly what goes on.
98% of people I worked with could not be faulted so that is why it annoys me so much when I hear people painting all of the public sector with the one brush.

And they didn't have a bigger part than any of the rest of us in the economic downturn.

Mass dismissals will never happen because each & every public servant will strike together, regardless of department, which will mean little or no vital services provided.

They did have a bigger part to play. Their trade unions pushed for obscene pay rises which in turn pushed up prices because the private sector had to keep pace. They started a vicious circle of wage and price increases in persuance of their own greed. Ironically they never benefitted because the cost of living kept up and in the process the country is now on it's knees.

And, yes, there will be mass dismissals - you have no idea of how bad this is going to get do you? This is just the start. The country won't be able to borrow to pay the wages it is currently borrowing to pay. That is a fact of life. The ECB is atm buying Irish bonds because no one else wants them - they did not tell you that either?

Quazzie · 01-07-2009 3:08pm

darkman2 wrote: »

The ECB is atm buying Irish bonds because no one else wants them - they did not tell you that either?

I don't understand the question.

Joey the lips · 01-07-2009 3:13pm

This is cool although its funny my wages does the exact same in reverse.:D

easyeason3 · 01-07-2009 3:16pm

darkman2 wrote: »

They did have a bigger part to play. Their trade unions pushed for obscene pay rises which in turn pushed up prices because the private sector had to keep pace. They started a vicious circle of wage and price increases in persuance of their own greed. Ironically they never benefitted because to cost of living kept up and in the process the country is now on it's knees.

And, yes, there will be mass dismissals - you have no idea of how bad this is going to get do you? This is just the start. The country won't be able to borrow to pay the wages it is currently borrowing to pay. That is a fact of life. The ECB is atm buying Irish bonds because no one else wants them - they did not tell you that either?

So it's all down to the public sector is it?
Would you ever get a grip on yourself. I have friends in the public sector that would earn a hell of a lot more in the private sector given their experience & education.

There won't be mass dismissals regardless of what you think.
IT WILL NOT BE POSSIBLE.
I'd nearly like to see the government try this & for the entire public sector to go on strike just to show people like you how much of an impact it will have.

As I said already it is a GLOBAL recession, it's not just limited to us because of the public sector. Other countries are already showing signs of coming out of the recession so it stands to reason that it will have a positive effect on our economy too.

I've yet to hear you mention the banks, the property developers, the construction industry & the private companies that have left here & set up in other countries because overheads such as wages are much lower.

But maybe that doesn't suit you to mention the above.

plissken · 01-07-2009 3:17pm

darkman2 wrote: »

.Give people 6 months of dole then turf them off like they do in the states.

Where are you getting all of these blatantly wrong facts or are you, as I suspect, simply spewing lie after lie to defend your ever shrinking corner.

The public sector are the lee harvey oswald of the financial crisis, a patsy for the ignorant and unintelligible to lay blame upon.

dvpower · 01-07-2009 3:22pm

Katarn1 wrote: »

And what will the result of this be? The country ends up tens of thousands more people on the welfare. With queues in the welfare offices escalating because there are no civil servants to deal with the increase. Potential chaos. And who will deal with this public unrest? We'll have less Gardai.

Hardly a long term solution.

+1
We just need to cut wages back to affordable levels.

jumpguy · 01-07-2009 3:22pm

Must say I'm on the OP's side but not with the same ideas. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE I know in that works in the private sector has taken a serious pay cut, have been made redundant or are/have been working shortened weeks. Why doesn't the public sector be forced to take cuts? After all, it's only fair, everyone in the private sector can't take the blunt force of this recession, it would be disproportionate and only increases anger and bitterness.
The public sector has become an overpaid and underproductive workforce. Yes, I know not even nearly ALL, but there's alot of overpaid bureurocrats who happen to be unionised that need to go. Also, mismanagement and pay inflation during the celtic Tiger have done serious damage. But then the unions will **** a brick and there'll be a massive strike, crippling the country even more and tarnishing our international image even more.
I suggest paycuts, redundancies and efficiency improvements should be introduced across the sector, proportional to a sectors importance and current efficiency. As far as the health service goes, pay freezes are the very least that should be introduced. There should be better streamlining of working hours and better management overall.

If some pulling-together isn't done and we all take a proportionate hit off the recession, our public debt will increase, our credit rating will decrease, and we'll saddle the next generations with debt caused by greed and foolishness. We don't want that now, do we? Just because we couldn't take a few years of pain.

Darragh29 · 01-07-2009 3:27pm

Its only at 64, it'll be grand! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

dvpower · 01-07-2009 3:28pm

plissken wrote: »

The public sector are the lee harvey oswald of the financial crisis, a patsy for the ignorant and unintelligible to lay blame upon.

True. Public servants aren't responsible for the recession. but we are where we are; we can no longer afford the expense of the public service that we have and we do need to cut it. Surely nobody disagrees with this?

so, where to cut? Social welfare accounts for a big portion of public spending, so it will need to take a cut. Same with health. Some general slimming down of some of the overstaffed departments (Agriculture, FAS ...) and possibly some entire departments being merged. This can't happen without job losses but I guess this can come from natural wastage.

Darragh29 · 01-07-2009 3:34pm

jumpguy wrote: »

Must say I'm on the OP's side but not with the same ideas. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE I know in that works in the private sector has taken a serious pay cut, have been made redundant or are/have been working shortened weeks. Why doesn't the public sector be forced to take cuts? After all, it's only fair, everyone in the private sector can't take the blunt force of this recession, it would be disproportionate and only increases anger and bitterness.
The public sector has become an overpaid and underproductive workforce. Yes, I know not even nearly ALL, but there's alot of overpaid bureurocrats who happen to be unionised that need to go. Also, mismanagement and pay inflation during the celtic Tiger have done serious damage. But then the unions will **** a brick and there'll be a massive strike, crippling the country even more and tarnishing our international image even more.
I suggest paycuts, redundancies and efficiency improvements should be introduced across the sector, proportional to a sectors importance and current efficiency. As far as the health service goes, pay freezes are the very least that should be introduced. There should be better streamlining of working hours and better management overall.

If some pulling-together isn't done and we all take a proportionate hit off the recession, our public debt will increase, our credit rating will decrease, and we'll saddle the next generations with debt caused by greed and foolishness. We don't want that now, do we? Just because we couldn't take a few years of pain.

I said it before on here and I was called a clown for saying it. But we badly need those public sector strikes to happen. We need to fall right down into the abyss as a country before we can fix our problems, because our problems are that bad. The PS unions of this country need to be engaged with and defeated. There is a role for unions in this country but the flavour of union leadership we have in this country is rotten.

No person or association can be allowed veto the change that we have to go through before we can suceeed as an economy again. So draw the line in the sand, bring on the strikes, stock up on the candles and non-perishables, invest in a bicycle and bring it on, that's what I say.

The level of remuneration for higher public sector employees is nothing less than INSANE. Hospital consultants on a public sector 250K minimum contract, nobody in the public sector should be on this money regardless of what they do or how useful they are.

not yet · 01-07-2009 3:34pm

Some stupid fcuking planks on here seem to think the public sector is the reason we are in this sh1tt......fcuk me... how brain dead does someone have to be to think that.

A deaf blind man from china will tell you it was greedy fcuking builders, and bankers who worked on commission, those simple fcukers in leinster house who let this develope over years despite being told as far back as 2002 that they needed to cool the economy. imagine if we had the 2.5billion handed out in interest on ssia's in 2007.

ScumLord · 01-07-2009 3:36pm

I really don't understand why debt is such a problem. Where is the money going? who's the guy looking for all this money back and turfing people out on the street? Why do we depend on a fictional system that works perfect one minute then makes all that money disappear the next?

I think we should be seriously considering locking the doors on banks and finding a new system to operate our society's under.

annabellee77 · 01-07-2009 3:41pm

not yet wrote: »

Some stupid fcuking planks on here seem to think the public sector is the reason we are in this ****......fcuk me how brain dead does someone have to be to think that.

A deaf blind man from china will tell you it was greedy fcuking builders, and bankers who worked on commission, those simple fcukers in leinster house who let this develope over years despite being told as far back as 2002 that they needed to cool the economy. imagine if we had the 2.5billion handed out in interest on ssia's in 2007.

Nail on the head.
The stupidity on here by some is actually astounding at times. Normally I'd be right up for a debate on issues but on principle I'd only end up patronising people!

Darragh29 · 01-07-2009 3:41pm

not yet wrote: »

Some stupid fcuking planks on here seem to think the public sector is the reason we are in this ****......fcuk me how brain dead does someone have to be to think that.

A deaf blind man from china will tell you it was greedy fcuking builders, and bankers who worked on commission, those simple fcukers in leinster house who let this develope over years despite being told as far back as 2002 that they needed to cool the economy. imagine if we had the 2.5billion handed out in interest on ssia's in 2007.

What comes in HAS to equal what goes out, it's that simple. That's the way all sustainable organisations work. We have income of probably just under 30 billion Euro this year but we are spending over 60 billion Euro. Then we look and see the likes of RTE's unsufferable celebrities getting paid insane salaries and that organisation can't even balance the books???

What the f*ck are we afraid of in the country, who's sitting at the stop button, I mean is there even a stop button for this country, do we not have any arms or fingers to get at the button???

easyeason3 · 01-07-2009 3:42pm

dvpower wrote: »

True. Public servants aren't responsible for the recession. but we are where we are; we can no longer afford the expense of the public service that we have and we do need to cut it. Surely nobody disagrees with this?

so, where to cut? Social welfare accounts for a big portion of public spending, so it will need to take a cut. Same with health. Some general slimming down of some of the overstaffed departments (Agriculture, FAS ...) and possibly some entire departments being merged. This can't happen without job losses but I guess this can come from natural wastage.

Social welfare will need to take a cut if the queues stay at the same level or worse if they get bigger. But the government will only be able to introduce a minimum reduction in order to look good to both the social welfare recipient & the taxpayer. They need to keep both happy.

Fas can't be touched due to the large number of people signing on. It would be more beneficial for surplus members of the CS to be transferred to Fas in order to run it properly & more efficiently. Have you looked at the 'courses' available on the Fas website for people looking to re-train? Most of them are useless unless you want a trade.

Agriculture might see an increase in dealing with farmers because a lot of them had previously only farmed part time due to holding down a full time job. A lot of these guys have since lost jobs due to roads being finished, sites being closed so they have had to go back into dairy farming to try & make ends meet. Grants have been cut but there is a greater interest in dairy as well as crops.

And the government introduced the early retirement scheme so they don't look like they are pushing anyone out of the CS which will keep the unions & members of the CS off their backs. This scheme has been successful so far, quite a few people have applied for it. So they are cutting down on numbers without a huge amount of controversy.

Irish Debt Clock?

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