Mad cattle

DarByrne1980

Muckit wrote: »

Merely posing a solution to the problem. It has to be realistic from my point of view too though. I have to cover my risks, costs etc.

Maybe even change it to agri-entrepenuer (pity I cant spell it but it sounds good) :rolleyes:

Muckit

All settling down nicely in the shed.

ellewood

Muckit wrote: »

All settling down nicely in the shed.

Let them off in the morning the'll be grand..

LizzyOne

Pity someone wasn't there to film it for YouTube!!!
No sign of the previous owner turning up to look at his quiet animals.
So, got family and neighbours to perform the deed:
Positioned the cattle trailer at just the right angle.
Men were there either side to slam the trailer gates shut as soon the bullocks tore up the ramp.
The uncle stood outside a gate calling them.
Of course, wouldn't you know that crazy bullock remembered him and tried to get at him again through the gate!
The other bullocks followed behind out of the shed they were hiding in.
Another guy banged on the side of the shed kicking up a racket to get them out.
And I stood on a ladder flapping a plastic bag over a high wall at the bullocks every time they made a burst back into the shed.
Wellll.....It was like musical chairs.
We got them out to the trailer, almost to the ramp and back into the shed they ran.
And out again with a bit more hollering this time and half up the ramp, changed their minds and back into the shed again.
Waved the plastic bag frantically and shrieked like a banshee at them and out they ran to the trailer again and all in the trailer and one ran away again and they all followed.
More curses!!!
More banging on the galvanise and lots of waving of sticks and hay forks and out they ran and stood in one corner of the yard, then miracle! They decided to trust the trailer in the end and get away from the loonies!
It was Halloween yesterday so we can say some of the loonies stayed around our section of the woods to frighten the livestock.
Big sigh if relief as the trailer gates were slammed shut and the ramp hastily lifted and locked into place.
We even joked afterwards that now was the time to take the blood samples!!!
Ha! Ha! Ha!
Down to the slatted cattle shed where we had some friendly Aberdeen heifers in for fattening and unloaded these boys in the pen next door.
Well, they did more looking at the heifers than us.
So maybe the female variety will help soothe the wild savages.
Much better too giving them less room to run around like horses around a racetrack.
Fingers crossed now, but they won't ever be let out to grass again.

Miname

LizzyOne wrote: »

Pity someone wasn't there to film it for YouTube!!!
No sign of the previous owner turning up to look at his quiet animals.
So, got family and neighbours to perform the deed:
Positioned the cattle trailer at just the right angle.
Men were there either side to slam the trailer gates shut as soon the bullocks tore up the ramp.
The uncle stood outside a gate calling them.
Of course, wouldn't you know that crazy bullock remembered him and tried to get at him again through the gate!
The other bullocks followed behind out of the shed they were hiding in.
Another guy banged on the side of the shed kicking up a racket to get them out.
And I stood on a ladder flapping a plastic bag over a high wall at the bullocks every time they made a burst back into the shed.
Wellll.....It was like musical chairs.
We got them out to the trailer, almost to the ramp and back into the shed they ran.
And out again with a bit more hollering this time and half up the ramp, changed their minds and back into the shed again.
Waved the plastic bag frantically and shrieked like a banshee at them and out they ran to the trailer again and all in the trailer and one ran away again and they all followed.
More curses!!!
More banging on the galvanise and lots of waving of sticks and hay forks and out they ran and stood in one corner of the yard, then miracle! They decided to trust the trailer in the end and get away from the loonies!
It was Halloween yesterday so we can say some of the loonies stayed around our section of the woods to frighten the livestock.
Big sigh if relief as the trailer gates were slammed shut and the ramp hastily lifted and locked into place.
We even joked afterwards that now was the time to take the blood samples!!!
Ha! Ha! Ha!
Down to the slatted cattle shed where we had some friendly Aberdeen heifers in for fattening and unloaded these boys in the pen next door.
Well, they did more looking at the heifers than us.
So maybe the female variety will help soothe the wild savages.
Much better too giving them less room to run around like horses around a racetrack.
Fingers crossed now, but they won't ever be let out to grass again.

your a quiet man. i would have dropped them straight back to the mart and rang the department. cheque cashed or not its their responsability, you'll find they would have ponied up. ive had heifers thrown up for less and if that lad uses that mart as much as you reckon he would have to some way reasonable.

LizzyOne

To put it simply it's a pure relief that my brother in law survived at all.
He's stiff as a board, walking around the place very carefully like every step is a lot of effort, but he's walking!
Too many accidents with livestock.
Too many deaths!
This was one of those accidents that could have caused someone's death.
It's not good enough that the mart and owner washed their hands of it.
Never a word of enquiry.
Once we got over the shock of the accident then it was a matter of learning fast what should be done but found it wasn't so easy to go down so many different routes.
Had to educate ourselves what the bullocks were maybe treated with.
Had to have been given something. These animals even now are never quiet, aren't placid or tame. Those were words you would have used to describe this bunch of bullocks in the mart pen that were easy with every stranger that inspected them.
Since they arrived at my brother in law's it was a case of tearing and running and jumping at shadows and trying to climb the walls.
The past two days they quietened a tiny bit. Tiny bit!
No way were they so quiet as in the mart when all and anyone could pat them on their backs, and they were placid in the ring. So quiet they attracted all manner of bidders!
At the moment, in their pen, they might edge forward to nibble at the silage and meal left to tempt their appetites, but do you think I could pat one of them on their backs?
Any one of them?
Not a bit.
And yes, we are mad as hornets that this happened.
And no this story isn't finished yet.
And here is an interesting twist:
Mart not far from us.
Small in the scale of marts.
Farmer selling some Aberdeens and Herefords.
Don't know all the details so I can't tell you if they were bullocks or heifers.
Quiet there, and all sold.
They're bought and taken home.
Let out to the yard.
Wild, wild, wild.
So wild that the farmer contacted the mart and said it was more than cattle being upset with the mart sales and transport.
Mart asked the farmer what he wanted to do.
Didn't want them on his farm.
That's alright.
Owner came out, collected his livestock.
No hassle, no problem.
Regarding my son's dealings with the mart: We would have loved to load them up again and take them back to the mart but one look at those bullocks told us it would have been impossible to get them anywhere near a trailer for the first few days.
We had one close call.
Didn't want to tempt fate!
We expected the mart and owner to be decent over this!
After all one mart wasn't afraid to stand firm and bring another farmer to task over their livestock, why couldn't this mart have done the same?
But...big problem...as we learned. The seller does some work for the mart.
The manager found it hard to believe.
You know when you get that sinking feeling...that's right you're scuppered.
And thank you to everyone who named a few possible drugs that may have been used.
Xylazine, is I think the drug principally used.
Looked it up.
Used right and this would be for surgical ops on cattle is appropriate.
There's mention of it being used for transport and weighing, but I would think that would be more for countries abroad than here at home.
Scary drug too.
It's a sedative. Will calm cattle excellently well, for all the right reasons, and then you have the wrong ones, like using it or something very like it for calming cattle for sale.
Use too much and it's an uh oh! situation.
Of course, there's no proof.
With hindsight and with wisdom, we can see what should have been done.
It's really feels like this mart did us no favours.
We complain, and then consult everyone who we think might be able to tell us the right course of action.
But at the end of the day the mart hides behind its rules and regulations which says you loaded the animals into your trailer and left the premises.
That is the line in the sand.
End of responsibility.
Washing of the hands.
Good bye and don't come back complaining.
Well, we're experienced now.
But as I said this is not over.
The owner didn't bother trying to resolve this.
So back to the manager on Monday and he will be getting an earful about it.
Any advice?
Reasonable, please.
I know we all say what we'd like to do in certain situations but realistically when is something ever easy?
And as someone remarked to me: it's a pleasure to deal with reasonable people because they'll meet you half way, but the other kind... Impossible to please!!!

whelan2

how about saying to the mart if there isnt a resolution soon you will seek legal advice might put the frighteners on them

Reggie.

whelan2 wrote: »

how about saying to the mart if there isnt a resolution soon you will seek legal advice might put the frighteners on them

A legal letter maybe

rangler1

LizzyOne wrote: »

To put it simply it's a pure relief that my brother in law survived at all.
He's stiff as a board, walking around the place very carefully like every step is a lot of effort, but he's walking!
Too many accidents with livestock.
Too many deaths!
This was one of those accidents that could have caused someone's death.
It's not good enough that the mart and owner washed their hands of it.
Never a word of enquiry.
Once we got over the shock of the accident then it was a matter of learning fast what should be done but found it wasn't so easy to go down so many different routes.
Had to educate ourselves what the bullocks were maybe treated with.
Had to have been given something. These animals even now are never quiet, aren't placid or tame. Those were words you would have used to describe this bunch of bullocks in the mart pen that were easy with every stranger that inspected them.
Since they arrived at my brother in law's it was a case of tearing and running and jumping at shadows and trying to climb the walls.
The past two days they quietened a tiny bit. Tiny bit!
No way were they so quiet as in the mart when all and anyone could pat them on their backs, and they were placid in the ring. So quiet they attracted all manner of bidders!
At the moment, in their pen, they might edge forward to nibble at the silage and meal left to tempt their appetites, but do you think I could pat one of them on their backs?
Any one of them?
Not a bit.
And yes, we are mad as hornets that this happened.
And no this story isn't finished yet.
And here is an interesting twist:
Mart not far from us.
Small in the scale of marts.
Farmer selling some Aberdeens and Herefords.
Don't know all the details so I can't tell you if they were bullocks or heifers.
Quiet there, and all sold.
They're bought and taken home.
Let out to the yard.
Wild, wild, wild.
So wild that the farmer contacted the mart and said it was more than cattle being upset with the mart sales and transport.
Mart asked the farmer what he wanted to do.
Didn't want them on his farm.
That's alright.
Owner came out, collected his livestock.
No hassle, no problem.
Regarding my son's dealings with the mart: We would have loved to load them up again and take them back to the mart but one look at those bullocks told us it would have been impossible to get them anywhere near a trailer for the first few days.
We had one close call.
Didn't want to tempt fate!
We expected the mart and owner to be decent over this!
After all one mart wasn't afraid to stand firm and bring another farmer to task over their livestock, why couldn't this mart have done the same?
But...big problem...as we learned. The seller does some work for the mart.
The manager found it hard to believe.
You know when you get that sinking feeling...that's right you're scuppered.
And thank you to everyone who named a few possible drugs that may have been used.
Xylazine, is I think the drug principally used.
Looked it up.
Used right and this would be for surgical ops on cattle is appropriate.
There's mention of it being used for transport and weighing, but I would think that would be more for countries abroad than here at home.
Scary drug too.
It's a sedative. Will calm cattle excellently well, for all the right reasons, and then you have the wrong ones, like using it or something very like it for calming cattle for sale.
Use too much and it's an uh oh! situation.
Of course, there's no proof.
With hindsight and with wisdom, we can see what should have been done.
It's really feels like this mart did us no favours.
We complain, and then consult everyone who we think might be able to tell us the right course of action.
But at the end of the day the mart hides behind its rules and regulations which says you loaded the animals into your trailer and left the premises.
That is the line in the sand.
End of responsibility.
Washing of the hands.
Good bye and don't come back complaining.
Well, we're experienced now.
But as I said this is not over.
The owner didn't bother trying to resolve this.
So back to the manager on Monday and he will be getting an earful about it.
Any advice?
Reasonable, please.
I know we all say what we'd like to do in certain situations but realistically when is something ever easy?
And as someone remarked to me: it's a pleasure to deal with reasonable people because they'll meet you half way, but the other kind... Impossible to please!!!

Why not stick a letter in the journal naming the mart, but being careful not to infer anything illegal, just doing your duty to inform people what's out there.
Also talk to your bank to see can you stop payment, hopefully they'll have to contact you then...that's the action that I'd take

TUBBY

rangler1 wrote: »

Why not stick a letter in the journal naming the mart, but being careful not to infer anything illegal, just doing your duty to inform people what's out there.
Also talk to your bank to see can you stop payment, hopefully they'll have to contact you then...that's the action that I'd take

On a totally separate note Lizzy, what mart do ye buy your cattle in. Be interested to know.

orm0nd

rangler1 wrote: »

Why not stick a letter in the journal naming the mart, but being careful not to infer anything illegal, just doing your duty to inform people what's out there.
Also talk to your bank to see can you stop payment, hopefully they'll have to contact you then...that's the action that I'd take

I'd seek legal advise before I'd go that route,

there is a thread very similar to this on another forum which I presume are the same cattle
reading both threads it's quite easy to make out the mart in question

I'd be sending a solicitor's letter to both the mart and vendor (in fact I'd have it at this stage but that's just me and the way I operate)

LizzyOne

One of my boys drives all over to buy livestock (he's not a dealer)in sixmilebridge, ennis, roscrea, thurles, ballinakill, mountrath, to name a few.
That mart holds its sales on Mondays.
Now, my son has bought a good many cattle from that mart and was happy enough to return time and again to purchase more over the years.
He's annoyed enough that he doesn't know yet if he'd ever care to return there.
Once bitten, twice shy.
We've sold cattle as well in the same mart.
Perfectly fine, all above aboard, and no issues with anything.
So it is a real pity that something like this happens.
And all we can do is make a guess at it.
People tell us cattle can be wild after going through the ring and travelling on to a new home and strange surrounds and people.
Been there, done that, seen cattle that behaved just so.
And after a day, or three, they settle enough to include them with other stock and go out to graze or into the feeding sheds.
These bullocks weren't like that.
Too wild and startled.
And that looney bullock was too ready to run at anyone near him. Still does.
Now, why didn't he do that at the mart?
Not a peep out of him or the others.
So for us it's all suspicions, and no proof.
As for the manager, I think I feel sorry for him in a way.
I have enough distance now to appreciate the shock he must have got when told that bullocks that went through his mart the previous day had attacked an elderly farmer.
But my sympathy goes only so far.
He should have taken a tough stance with the previous owner.
Another mart can do it. Why not this one?
We're careful what we say.
What we think is a different matter.
Isn't this the age of suspicion?
Too late to stop the cheque.

LizzyOne

Another forum?
Yep.
That's my son, I believe, venting his opinions too.
He went on one forum(smiles when I ask him what name he's using!!), and I'm on this one.
Nope.
We haven't consulted each other as to what we're writing.
We just know we are both ticked off at what happened.
We're honest and hardworking and straight with people and we'd like others to give us the same courtesy.

orm0nd

LizzyOne wrote: »

Another forum?
Yep.
That's my son, I believe, venting his opinions too.
He went on one forum(smiles when I ask him what name he's using!!), and I'm on this one.
Nope.
We haven't consulted each other as to what we're writing.
We just know we are both ticked off at what happened.
We're honest and hardworking and straight with people and we'd like others to give us the same courtesy.

I know him ( your son) from seeing him at the marts you mentioned, the fact you (plural) wanted to slaughter the stock and take the hit says a lot about you

best of luck and i hope it ends well for you , and that the uncle will be soon be back to former self ,

rangler1

orm0nd wrote: »

I'd seek legal advise before I'd go that route,

there is a thread very similar to this on another forum which I presume are the same cattle
reading both threads it's quite easy to make out the mart in question

I'd be sending a solicitor's letter to both the mart and vendor (in fact I'd have it at this stage but that's just me and the way I operate)

I see nothing in court only all law and no justice, and the law is buyer beware and there is the chance that the judge would uphold that, have to think outside the box sometimes.
There is journalists out there that would be only to glad to get their teeth into that story especially when someone was injured

whelan2

rangler1 wrote: »

I see nothing in court only all law and no justice, and the law is buyer beware and there is the chance that the judge would uphold that, have to think outside the box sometimes.
There is journalists out there that would be only to glad to get their teeth into that story especially when someone was injured

Out of interest what would they be insinuating, would it be animals where not fit for purpose or for injuries received. Either way legal stuff is costly and anything posted on here or anywhere else could be used in court.- been there took 5 years to get to court

rangler1

whelan2 wrote: »

Out of interest what would they be insinuating, would it be animals where not fit for purpose or for injuries received. Either way legal stuff is costly and anything posted on here or anywhere else could be used in court.- been there took 5 years to get to court

The journalsts needn't insinuate anything, in the light of recent on farm deaths there's a story there and no one likes bad publicity

LizzyOne

I agree.
Law and justice can be poles apart.
Involving journalists could mean lawsuits down the road too.
Depending on what was written.
Health and safety is an issue but even that could be argued as too little caution around livestock and what methods were used to control the bullocks.
It's practically a no win situation.
The one key determination for us was to ensure there wasn't a repeat performance with these same livestock.
We didn't want to keep them.
But even more we didn't want to hear that they had been sold to some farmer who suffered injuries or worse.
The imagination is a frightful thing.
It's amazing what horrors can parade across the mind, and we've all heard terrible stories about children and all manner of farmers, involving cattle or machinery.
So it was curtail the bullocks freedom or send them on for slaughter.
We managed to corral them.
It's a small success.
They'll be fed well over the next few months and after that it will be the factory.
As for the mart and owner ...
Tomorrow should prove interesting!!!

LizzyOne

If it seems that we regularly change our minds as to what course of action to take, then you are partly right.
There is so much that we would like to do but, alas, there are consequences as we all know.
Two sides to the one coin.
Keep the cattle. Don't keep the cattle.
Keep the cattle and control what happens with them.
Send them back and someone else buys them and then what??? Maybe everything would be ok. But what if that didn't happen. Then you'd say to yourself if you were any kind of a decent human being that you should have done something when you had the chance.
Well this is it.
We can affect what happens here.
But it's not only up to us.
You all have a voice and can make your opinion felt.
Buy or sell your stock in whatever mart you choose and say to the manager that you don't want to discover your newly purchased cattle jumping out of their skins when you get them home.
It doesn't matter if you suspect anything or not.
Just say it every time you buy your cows, or bullocks, heifers, calves and so on.
Let enough farmers say it and the marts will start to take this seriously.
Maybe. Probably.
Who knows???

oflynno

I have worked with Limousins before, and they can be cracked.
One vet that used to do TB testing reckoned there was 15% reindeer in them.

They used to draw the short straw in the practise to see who had to go and deal with them.

With any breed of cattle, it can depend also where they come from.
If they have arrived from the back and beyonds to the mart, they are standing around all day and in tight pens and runs, they can't do much.

When they arrive back to your yard, who is to know if they have ever seen concrete before?
They may also not be used to people.

This may take time for them to calm down, as the other poster said, if you suspect anything foul, talk to your local or Department vet - a blood sample will rule in or out anything fishy.

Hope things settle down for you soon

simx

oflynno wrote: »

I have worked with Limousins before, and they can be cracked.
One vet that used to do TB testing reckoned there was 15% reindeer in them.

They used to draw the short straw in the practise to see who had to go and deal with them.

With any breed of cattle, it can depend also where they come from.
If they have arrived from the back and beyonds to the mart, they are standing around all day and in tight pens and runs, they can't do much.

When they arrive back to your yard, who is to know if they have ever seen concrete before?
They may also not be used to people.

This may take time for them to calm down, as the other poster said, if you suspect anything foul, talk to your local or Department vet - a blood sample will rule in or out anything fishy.

Hope things settle down for you soon

what do you mean by "suspect anything foul"? being bred to the devil or something?

Insp. Harry Callahan

I was at a local mart a few weeks ago, was a weanling sale, saw something I never saw or heard of before, a calf jumping over the sales ring barrier and into the crowd
It was a 300kg lim bull calf,he was jumping up and down the walls as soon as he got of the weigh bridge and into the ring, it took a small run up and jumped, got most of his weight over and then got his back legs up onto the ledge and pushed himself over, the place was packed and nobody could get out of the way hardly, landed on a couple of older chaps, there was a mad scramble for the exits!, he tried to get up the steps but couldn't get up due to the crowd, he ran across the front and out the side door, happened so fast, think an ambulance was called for the guys that got hurt but think thankfully wasn't too serious. The barrier was 6 ft high. The mart have extended it to 9ft now so it will take a good one to clear that!

KatyMac

Insp. Harry Callahan wrote: »

I was at a local mart a few weeks ago, was a weanling sale, saw something I never saw or heard of before, a calf jumping over the sales ring barrier and into the crowd
It was a 300kg lim bull calf,he was jumping up and down the walls as soon as he got of the weigh bridge and into the ring, it took a small run up and jumped, got most of his weight over and then got his back legs up onto the ledge and pushed himself over, the place was packed and nobody could get out of the way hardly, landed on a couple of older chaps, there was a mad scramble for the exits!, he tried to get up the steps but couldn't get up due to the crowd, he ran across the front and out the side door, happened so fast, think an ambulance was called for the guys that got hurt but think thankfully wasn't too serious. The barrier was 6 ft high. The mart have extended it to 9ft now so it will take a good one to clear that!

Last time I was in the mart saw something very similar. It was a reddish bullock, prob LIM or Ch cross. He came flying into the ring, stood for a second and made a running jump. The men at ringside moved fairly fast to get clear but he didn't make it, sort of spun to a halt and slid into the wall. Did a couple of laps of the ring before drover managed to get him out the gate. Far as I can remember bidding didn't seem to be affected by his antics but I know I wouldn't like him anywhere near me.

whelan2

KatyMac wrote: »

Last time I was in the mart saw something very similar. It was a reddish bullock, prob LIM or Ch cross. He came flying into the ring, stood for a second and made a running jump. The men at ringside moved fairly fast to get clear but he didn't make it, sort of spun to a halt and slid into the wall. Did a couple of laps of the ring before drover managed to get him out the gate. Far as I can remember bidding didn't seem to be affected by his antics but I know I wouldn't like him anywhere near me.

ye amazes me the bidding that goes on on mental cattle

leg wax

whelan2 wrote: »

ye amazes me the bidding that goes on on mental cattle

you always need 1 to keep you on your toes:D:D

I said

whelan2 wrote: »

ye amazes me the bidding that goes on on mental cattle

Yeah seen that a heifer climbing the ring totally mad and not a slight bit of difference to the bidding.

Kovu

whelan2 wrote: »

ye amazes me the bidding that goes on on mental cattle

Especially the ones that have a dry cow put in with them in the ring because they're a bit 'excitable'

A couple of years ago I was clerking up next to the auctioneer when a mad charolais came in. Came thundering out of the scales, straight through the ring and went to clear the rails. Walloped straight into the top one with the bridge of his nose and broke his neck. :eek:

onyerbikepat

Kovu wrote: »

Especially the ones that have a dry cow put in with them in the ring because they're a bit 'excitable'

A couple of years ago I was clerking up next to the auctioneer when a mad charolais came in. Came thundering out of the scales, straight through the ring and went to clear the rails. Walloped straight into the top one with the bridge of his nose and broke his neck. :eek:

I suppose if you're going to be flashing them like on your avatar pic, they'll get up to all sorts.

LizzyOne

See all your posts.
Thanks everyone.
Taken a lot of your advice and putting it to good use.
First off, no joy from mart or owner.
No proof.
Ah well!
After reading everything here it was looking unlikely the longer it dragged on.
As for the little darlings, the limousins are settling.
Key points:
Restricted space. In a cattle pen and not a yard.
Discovered they lovvveee meal on their silage.
They like the heifers in the pen next door.
Getting them used to people; walking and talking, no sudden movements.
Read that livestock enjoy a song or two.
Don't ask.
I did.
I sang 'I've got a brand new combine harvester', twice, and incomplete.
Don't know who was more gob smacked, my kids or the bullocks!
It seemed silence was the applause of appreciation.
As for trusting any one of those animals ... Not one bit.
I like them fine safely in their pen.

J.O. Farmer

Instead of singing to them leave a radio on in the shed. Something like radio one and they get used to hearing voices.