Regarding recent unfortunate events.

DeVore

A recap of events:

On friday a group of users posted on the BBV thread a suggestion to go to another part of Boards and cause trouble. It turned into abuse and harrassment of other users of Boards. Ignoring it initially was a mistake which the mods put their hands up and accepted.

What was going on was spotted by the admins and where it came from. We have had issues like this before from other forums invading each other and in haste a rash decision to close and move the BBV was taken. This was also a mistake and also one that has been quickly acknowledged by the admins.

If that had been it, we would be fine. Unfortunately it wasnt.

I did not return the BBV thread at the time in part because I was really angry at it being used to attack another part of my beloved site (that will be me putting up my hand) and in part because moving a 60,000 post thread means 60,000 writes to our database in 2 minutes. Thats not something you just "do" at 1am. (Smurph can validate that I did it at that time because she pm'ed me just as I created the replacement BBV).

In a very short space of time, a couple of simple mistakes had spiralled into an almighty popcorn war. Heated words were exchanged on various threads and unfortunate comments were made and taken to heart.

This has led to a great deal of bruised feelings on many parts which I have done my level best to heal over the last 48 hours.

Thats the situation. Let me detail the solution.

Firstly let me reiterate the site's support for the moderators here. They do their good job in a tough forum and your support of them shows that the work is not lost on you. I've repeatedly praised the community spirit we have here and which they have played a large part in fostering.



We are all human, we all make mistakes. All parties concerned.

Whats going to happen now is that the BBV will be restored. (Ironically, this will be short lived as technical issues are forcing us to truncate all the mega-threads on the site but for the moment it will be restored.)

The mods are agreed to step up their vigilance against the sort of idiotic childishness that got us into this problem in the first place.

The admins are agreed to punish those responsible in the future rather then the community as a whole.

I'd ask you, the users to be aware and mindful that you share this platform with others and you would expect them to respect your community, so I ask you to respect others.

For myself, I wont make hasty decisions in anger.... and I'm going into the popcorn business.

DeV.

5starpool

We acknowledge some mistakes were made from our side - Kev held his hands up straight away early saturday afternoon, and apologised to both admins and TCN mods. Certain Poker forum users were in the wrong and have been banned. We do feel that mistakes were made on the Admin side that could have recitfied the situation a lot quicker and we have spoken at length to the admin group over the past few days about these.

We acknowledge that in future we will not allow attacks on other forums to happen from within the poker forum and also abuse of other boards users wont be allowed to happen. A key part of the discussion for us over the past few days was that the issues that caused this were based on a tiny % of what happens in the poker forum and in this regard we ask poker forum users to use their cop on (which we know exists in abundance) following this incident so that the forum can continue to thrive as before.

The BBV is a key part of our community and we have gotten clearence to reopen it. We realise that technical difficulties may cause us to have to close it again along with other big threads on the site but until such a time we will use the old BBV again

To keep things tidy on the BBV we will have a seperate discussion thread where you can ask us any questions about the last few days. We will do our best to answer as many questions that are reasonably asked as possible...please bear in mind that there might be some levels of detail we cant go into

We have worked hard on getting a solution to this whole situation. We feel that the current boards poker community is worth saving because of you guys - the users. And we hope we can go back to how things were albeit with consideration from everyone for other boards communites

brianmc

At this point the biggest issue for me is the lack of faith that the Admin team displayed in the moderators and members of the poker forum.

The boards poker community owes a gratitude to boards for the way it has flourished. The community though, is a lot more than the servers it's conversation resides on.

I don't read any apologies above for not trusting the mods that have done a tremendous job for years that the mistakes were just that - small mistakes - easily rectified. (I'm not belittling what happened to the TCN forum.)

Flushdraw

Well played both Dev and the Mods. Would be nice to put this whole episode behind us and move on.

AdMMM

As you're probably aware, I'm behind the other site that has been set up. Don't worry though, I'm not going to sling mud. Wherever there's poker being discussed, I'm going to be there. Maybe it's just my own enthusiasm, but I do think there's room for my own site and I'm going to continue to work on it because I'm certain that I can offer more relevant features than Boards.ie ever can. That's not a dig at you, but merely an observation that Boards.ie is a massive beast and while being a large forum, the Poker community does take a backseat in the grand scheme of things. That's only understandable given the format of Boards.

But that's where I think I can offer more.

KevIRL

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Is Kinetic gonna **** off

Richie, Kinetic will still be Catmod, as he was before. To confirm, we are now resuming our modding positions and will as before do the day to day modding of the forum, just like always

I might add here that Kinetic had an extremely thankless task of looking after the place while we were not modding it over the last couple of days. I'd like to thank him for doing that.

Can we not let this descend into Kinetic bashing please?

Hank Scorpio

Only way wrong decisions ever get reversed around here is when people take mass action and it might damage your precious site.

zuroph

IMO dev, some of the comments by mods who werent involved in any way didnt help this situation at all and should be looked at to avoid future hassle. a few mods in particular seem to work in packs and spend their time agreeing and thanking each others posts. I reported a post that i found personally offensive and out of line by another mod, and it was ignored. since I've become a mod, i've been very aware of the cliquey nature of some of the mods, and have been made feel most unwelcome by one or two. I thought I was imagining this, but its been mentioned to me by several other mods recently.
reason Im bringing all this up is that, when tensions were at their highest, certain people not involved getting stuck in really didnt help, and made the situation much worse. this is going to happen again unless something is said or done now.

DeVore

Adam, I have no issue with your site what so ever. We have a soccer forum while foot.ie exists and a music forum while muse.ie exists. Provided it doesnt turn into a platform to "have a go at Boards", I wish you the very best of luck. Sincerely.

DeV.

5starpool

Lads, this is not a thread for abuse, please remember that. This is a thread for discussion, and we will answer questions as best we can. DeV's post above mentions that mistakes were made on all side. We are resolving this as best we can with the sites and the forums interests at heart. Abuse does not add to the situation. Kinetic has always had a role as cmod, but he is not, as far as I am aware intending to be an active mod of the poker forum.

Theresalwaysone

Lads I'd like these questions answered please:

Dev why didnt you or the other Admins defend the poker mods in the feedback thread, the abuse they got from certain posters/mods was ridiculous.

Why are there no apologies from certain admins to the poker community for the way they acted? Our "bad apples" held there hands up and apologised, why havent the Admins?

Why are there no apologies to the poker mods for not having faith in them and for letting them get the abuse they did?

I understand that we all make mistakes, and I am grateful that you have sorted it all out but Id like you to answer the above questions becuase I believe these are the issues that leave the sourest taste.

strewelpeter

NH WP

I assume RedJokers pic will have pride of place in the discussion thread :cool:

Chucky the tree

Why do some of the admins have issues with the poker forum and specifically BBV?

opr

strewelpeter wrote: »

NH WP

I assume RedJokers pic will have pride of place in the discussion thread :cool:

Yeah i hope its ok to lighten the mood. Courtesy of RedJoker








Opr

/b/

The day you learn to use "we" instead of "I" and "Me" will be the day you understand community.

Stop refering to "we" when it is to dissolve/water down blame.


Using "We" can be handy

Never understood why you or other Admins didn't tell people to fuk off the site if they didn't like it.

Worried?

Even just a little bit? I think you were

cooker3

Has to be done

Wreck

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Lads I'd like these questions answered please:

Dev why didnt you or the other Admins defend the poker mods in the feedback thread, the abuse they got from certain posters/mods was ridiculous.

Why are there no apologies from certain admins to the poker community for the way they acted? Our "bad apples" held there hands up and apologised, why havent the Admins?

Why are there no apologies to the poker mods for not having faith in them and for letting them get the abuse they did?

I understand that we all make mistakes, and I am grateful that you have sorted it all out but Id like you to answer the above questions becuase I believe these are the issues that leave the sourest taste.

This pretty much sums up my concerns exactly, with one addition: Why was there no discussion allowed either in the poker forum or on feedback for all of Saturday and most of Sunday. The lack of communication really exasperated things.

Ste05

brianmc wrote: »

At this point the biggest issue for me is the lack of faith that the Admin team displayed in the moderators and members of the poker forum.

The boards poker community owes a gratitude to boards for the way it has flourished. The community though, is a lot more than the servers it's conversation resides on.

I don't read any apologies above for not trusting the mods that have done a tremendous job for years that the mistakes were just that - small mistakes - easily rectified. (I'm not belittling what happened to the TCN forum.)

Brian, it's a fair point but we would not be back modding if we didn't think we have Admins support in all this. Hopefully during this thread they can convince you all, just like they did with us that they support us. It was an incredibly gruelling few days for all involved, but it's time to heal the rifts and move on, that is what this thread is for.

Reasonable questions to us will be answered as much as is possible, so ask away, you'll just have to understand that there might be certain things we can not discuss for various reasons, but we can deal with those as and when they crop up.

The decision to resign weren't made lightly and neither was the decision to return.

Only time will tell if we made the right decision.

I'd also like to thank Kinetic, it was an impossible position he found himself in, and he dealt with things as best he could in an awful situation for everyone involved, including all of you guys, we didn't forget about you for one second in all of this.

So thank you, Kinetic.

Ste05

Flushdraw

Theresalwaysone wrote: »

Lads I'd like these questions answered please:

Dev why didnt you or the other Admins defend the poker mods in the feedback thread, the abuse they got from certain posters/mods was ridiculous.

Why are there no apologies from certain admins to the poker community for the way they acted? Our "bad apples" held there hands up and apologised, why havent the Admins?

Why are there no apologies to the poker mods for not having faith in them and for letting them get the abuse they did?

I understand that we all make mistakes, and I am grateful that you have sorted it all out but Id like you to answer the above questions becuase I believe these are the issues that leave the sourest taste.

Steve in all fairness Kev held his hands up and didnt do anything to stop the so called attack. We dont know it the other mods were online and choose to ignore it either. DeV couldn't come right out and say that his precious mods wouldn't do anything wrong until he has investigated it and was happy with the results. He can't be seen to have bias over any area on boards, or this could have brought 2 or 3 huge communities to a head

DeVore

Theresalwaysone: I wasnt here that day and it developed into a 30 page thread.

We agreed to not personalise these posts as to "who did what and how wrong it was". Originally I had named people but everyone felt they shouldnt be vicitised. Kev then said he felt the mods post should go "as was".

The mods shouldnt have been abused. No one should be abused on this site. Actions have been taken. I'm not going into it further then that except to say that I have first hand experience of how much effort the mods put in in here. I greatly regret the abuse that they (and indeed Kinetic and others) have suffered. It shouldnt have happened but tempers flaired and things get said. We're moving on.

DeV.

randylonghorn

zuroph wrote: »

IMO dev, some of the comments by mods who werent involved in any way didnt help this situation at all and should be looked at to avoid future hassle. a few mods in particular seem to work in packs and spend their time agreeing and thanking each others posts. I reported a post that i found personally offensive and out of line by another mod, and it was ignored. since I've become a mod, i've been very aware of the cliquey nature of some of the mods, and have been made feel most unwelcome by one or two. I thought I was imagining this, but its been mentioned to me by several other mods recently.

And some mods who weren't "involved in any way" spoke out on the other side of the issue, and were supported by other mods and by ordinary users. Did you want them to be silenced too, Zuroph?

You should know by now that mods don't agree on everything, in fact they often disagree. I get frustrated with some people at times too, but they are as entitled to their opinion as I am. Otherwise this site is a complete sham, and we should all GTFO, from DeV down to the newst reg. from 2 seconds ago.

Wolves

So the BBV is back, the mods are all back....what's the catch? What is different than before? And why did it take 3 days to put it back exactly the same?

RichieLawlor

RichieLawlor wrote: »

Gordon just stuck his unwanted head into nicnicnic thread, nobodys coming back here if its gonna carry on like this, either you guys are in charge or you not, ffs work it out

Richie, take a chill pill. The lads were on strike when that happened and now they are back on the job. Fair play to them.

I cannot tell you how foul a taste I have in my mouth over this whole thing.

I want to stay here as a matter of respect to the mods as much as anything. This has, in my opinion, been largely an insult to the way they have moderated this forum and if they are satisfied that things have been fully sorted out then I am satisfied.

I would hope that, as a pretty well established poster, I could help to get the forum back to what it was. I implore my fellow posters to do the same. We were a community, we are a community and we should remain a community. To do that we need to make a choice about where that community shall have it's home and I, for one, vote we remain where we are for now. If reason to move comes up in the future, so be it, but this is where this community was essentially born and I do not believe it is time for us to leave it behind.

To those who do choose to leave this forum, I understand your decision but equally I hope that you understand my decision to stay. Like Dom, Ste, Laf and Lloyd I have put a lot into this community and this forum and I do not want it to suffer from the upheaval of a move.

Many words have been said, some harsh, some intemperate, many heartfelt and all sincere. Those things needed saying and have been said. It is time to put them behind us and move on. It is time to start re-building this community and I, for one, will be trying to do that here.

zuroph

randylonghorn wrote: »

And some mods who weren't "involved in any way" spoke out on the other side of the issue, and were supported by other mods and by ordinary users. Did you want them to be silenced too, Zuroph?

You should know by now that mods don't agree on everything, in fact they often disagree. I get frustrated with some people at times too, but they are as entitled to their opinion as I am. Otherwise this site is a complete sham, and we should all GTFO, from DeV down to the newst reg. from 2 seconds ago.

Im all up for personal opinion, but the packhunting displayed by some is ridiculous. it wasnt well-rounded opinions, it was mud-slinging attacks and condescending "you really dont get it" rubbish. orsetes and thaedydal must have thanked every single one of each others posts. perhaps the thanks function should be disabled in feedback.

The Snapper

There are many organisations that I know and have been part of and I can safely say, they certainly would not have retrieved the situation of the last few days.


Well done to all involved.

KevIRL

Wolves wrote: »

So the BBV is back, the mods are all back....what's the catch? What is different than before? And why did it take 3 days to put it back exactly the same?

As Ste said above none of us made the decision to resign lightly, and likewise the same with returning. We had a long discussion with the Admins and we are happy with the end result as are they.

I would have loved to have it done sooner but when a discussion involves 5 poker mods, and a large number of Admins, all of which have RL stuff to get sorted as well time delays are likely unfortunately.

We also wanted to make sure key points werent missed. I feel completely exhausted from it all and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

There is no 'catch'. If you read our post above, we (with the help of you guys) are going to ensure that the events of Friday night dont happen again. Its regretable this wasnt sorted a lot sooner, we all feel that

Theresalwaysone

Flushdraw wrote: »

Steve in all fairness Kev held his hands up and didnt do anything to stop the so called attack. We dont know it the other mods were online and choose to ignore it either. DeV couldn't come right out and say that his precious mods wouldn't do anything wrong until he has investigated it and was happy with the results. He can't be seen to have bias over any area on boards, or this could have brought 2 or 3 huge communities to a head

I understand this, but when any other Mods get abused by anyone then the Admins circle the wagons and defend the mods to the public. This didnt happen this time, Boston and Thaedyl (sp?) afair were taking petty snipes and overt shots at the poker forum mods which wasnt at all reigned in.

DeVore wrote: »

Theresalwaysone: I wasnt here that day and it developed into a 30 page thread.

We agreed to not personalise these posts as to "who did what and how wrong it was". Originally I had named people but everyone felt they shouldnt be vicitised. Kev then said he felt the mods post should go "as was".

The mods shouldnt have been abused. No one should be abused on this site. Actions have been taken. I'm not going into it further then that except to say that I have first hand experience of how much effort the mods put in in here. I greatly regret the abuse that they (and indeed Kinetic and others) have suffered. It shouldnt have happened but tempers flaired and things get said. We're moving on.

DeV.

Thank you Dev for the answer.

I understand you can't be here all the time thats not the issue I have. The issue is, when all hell broke loose and when the feedback thread was eventually allowed the poker forum mods were attacked. Nothing was said to the offenders. It was like boards as a whole were finally getting their chance to have a go at the poker forum. Where is the apology for this?

Like was mentioned, Kev held up his hands and said sorry and Kayroo did the same, why cant those who did the poker forum as a whole and the mods wrong come out and apologise instead of hiding behind a blanket statement released by yourself?

I do want to move on, but Im not the only one who feels this way and moving on will be hampered by looking back if these issues arent dealt with.

DeVore

The Snapper wrote: »

There are many organisations that I know and have been part of and I can safely say, they certainly would not have retrieved the situation of the last few days.


Well done to all involved.

Thank you snapper.

I'm exhausted, physically and emotionally. I love the way people think I dont care about this community. Actually I don't , it sticks in my craw because I've been working on its behalf for many years now and believe me at times its very rough. I dont want to see it diminished but there are other communities here too. I want to achieve balance and respect, two things sorely lacking from many many people this weekend. A weekend I would gratefully forget.

DeV.

The_Chopper

TBH I think this was all a hoax.

Things in the poker forum has been dead apart from the BBV for quite a while and Dev with the assistance of his merry men decided to give us a couple days entertainment. Fair play I say

derealbadger

my last post has something to do with horses and stable doors and that sort of stuff it is a shame but i think all the kings horses and all the kings men cant put BBV back together again

Hank Scorpio

zuroph wrote: »

Im all up for personal opinion, but the packhunting displayed by some is ridiculous. it wasnt well-rounded opinions, it was mud-slinging attacks and condescending "you really dont get it" rubbish. orsetes and thaedydal must have thanked every single one of each others posts. perhaps the thanks function should be disabled in feedback.

this is what i find most infuriating about this website as a whole, the pure nose browning and asslicking when people who genuinely feel they`ve been hard done by are ganged up on by a group of admin/moderators who thank each others posts and even sometimes provoke fun at the poster in the feedback/help desk forum

The only reason i genuinely feel your going to restore the BBV / Mods is out of panicky mistrust and guilt, you can get away with it 99% of the times but this time it didnt work

iv been at the end of that ****ty stick many times but that thread about the BBV just seriously infuriated me even tho im at most a seldom poster in the poker forum