Institutional abuse was "endemic".. - MERGED

Puddleduck

My name is URL wrote: »

It's partly our shame imho.

Even today the church has a strangle hold over much of the education system and is a constant interference in day-to-day life. (the angelus..wtf!)

Sure the abuse isn't as bad as back then, but even now after the amount of public outrage over abuse/neglect, we still accept the church as part of daily life and don't seem to want to ditch the entire idea of it.

That is a shame

Report

I wouldnt agree. I went to a school run by the sisters, but this changed and is now a community school. The number of schools run by the brothers or the sisters are few and far between. I think ireland is just giving lip service to the days gone by.

gimme5minutes

Puddleduck wrote: »

This has nothing to do with religion. This is to do with some very sick indivduals that worked with children. I havent read the report but I did read a small piece in the newspaper this morning.

Well that is a dumb statement. It has everything to do with religion. The perpetrators were members of the clergy, they were aided and abetted by other members of the clergy who moved them to different locations and let them start abusing again if the people in one area had enough of the sick acts. If it has nothing to do with religion how come all the religious organizations were falling over themselves to apologize for it yesterday?

The Christian Brothers had some nerve to come out with an apology yesterday after they sued to prevent any of their members being prosecuted based on this report. If they really were sorry why would they be protecting their sick ****ING paedophile members from facing justice?

I am sick to the teeth of this country, absolutely no accoutability for anything if you are part of an organisation.

Puddleduck

gimme5minutes wrote: »

Well that is a dumb statement. It has everything to do with religion. The perpetrators were members of the clergy, they were aided and abetted by other members of the clergy who moved them to different locations and let them start abusing again if the people in one area had enough of the sick acts. If it has nothing to do with religion how come all the religious organizations were falling over themselves to apologize for it yesterday?

The Christian Brothers had some nerve to come out with an apology yesterday after they sued to prevent any of their members being prosecuted based on this report. If they really were sorry why would they be protecting their sick ****ING paedophile members from facing justice?

I am sick to the teeth of this country, absolutely no accoutability for anything if you are part of an organisation.

Did you read my post? The church didnt abuse the kids. The Church dosent have a bit in the bible that says 'abuse kids'. Its indivduals that do it. There are plenty in the church that never abused anyone.

Warper

The people responsible for these evil acts need to be held accountable for their actions. They should be locked up in prison never to see the light of day. If a layman done a fraction of what happened they would be nearly hung from the gallows. It is sickening to think they are not even going to be named. It is scandal after scandal with the Catholic Church and they need to be held accountable like everyone else. They always try to cover up everything and have instilled a fear in this country going back hundreds of years.

My name is URL

Puddleduck wrote: »

Did you read my post? The church didnt abuse the kids. The Church dosent have a bit in the bible that says 'abuse kids'. Its indivduals that do it. There are plenty in the church that never abused anyone.

I've gotta disagree with you here. The Catholic Church demands celibacy from it's clergy, that is a huge contributor to child sex abuse imo

I'm not generalising, and you're right that alot of people in the Church are totally innocent and good people.

KittyeeTrix

Puddleduck wrote: »

Did you read my post? The church didnt abuse the kids. The Church dosent have a bit in the bible that says 'abuse kids'. Its indivduals that do it. There are plenty in the church that never abused anyone.

Apart from reading a newspaper report puddleduck do you have any inside knowledge of what went on in those places, no you don't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well I do, my mum bless her spent almost 20years in the ****hole of "sisters of Mercy" convent in Longford and it was covered up to the hilt the crap that went on in there.
The effing government, the effing nuns and the effing priests were all equally responsible for what happened in those places and I will not let it be even considered that it was a few individuals,
Every goddamned priest and nun in those places knew what the hell was going on so don't start this bull**** of letting them hide behind their organisation:mad:
aND AS FOR THE OTHER POSTER WHO TRIED TO GET SOME BS STARTED ABOUT SOME OF THE VICTIMS LYING -HAVE SOME BLOODY DECENCY AND SAVE THAT SORT OF ACCUSATION FOR ANOTHER DAY COS I'M A BIT EMOTIONAL TODAY AND HONEST TO GOD I DON'T THINK I CAN STAND THOSE SORT OF ACCUSATIONS BEING BANDIED ABOUT

That bloody industrial school cost me a proper relationship with my mum and to be honest I haven't even looked at the report yet as I;m afraid to read it

Puddleduck

My name is URL wrote: »

I've gotta disagree with you here. The Catholic Church demands celibacy from it's clergy, that is a huge contributor to child sex abuse imo

I'm not generalising, and you're right that alot of people in the Church are totally innocent and good people.

I can understand where youre coming from but I have to disagree. The vow of celibacy comes with the territory, they can leave the church if they feel they cant manage it. To say that drives someone to the sickening things that were done to the poor kids isnt an excuse. These were just twisted individuals. Whether the church made them that way or not I dont know.

Lab_Mouse

Puddleduck wrote: »

Did you read my post? The church didnt abuse the kids. The Church dosent have a bit in the bible that says 'abuse kids'. Its indivduals that do it. There are plenty in the church that never abused anyone.

but the church actively protected these molesters by not informing the gards and secondly moved the perverts to other positions that they often had more contact with children.

I wonder if priests were allowed marry and have kids what the outcome would of been when the church first heard of the abuse.As a father I know what my reaction would be.

Any other organisation that carried out this type of horror would of been disbanded long ago

Noffles

Puddleduck wrote: »

Did you read my post? The church didnt abuse the kids. The Church dosent have a bit in the bible that says 'abuse kids'. Its indivduals that do it. There are plenty in the church that never abused anyone.

The Church never abused them but it certainly aided almost every one of the fiddling f*ckers to do so.....!!!

So the Church IS to blame!

PirateShampoo

Puddleduck wrote: »

Did you read my post? The church didnt abuse the kids. The Church dosent have a bit in the bible that says 'abuse kids'. Its indivduals that do it. There are plenty in the church that never abused anyone.

But the church did everything in its power to protect the abusers. It even moved abusers to different parish's where they continued there reign of evil on the childen there.

In my eyes they are just has guilty has the person who was raping the child.

gimme5minutes

Puddleduck wrote: »

Did you read my post? The church didnt abuse the kids. The Church dosent have a bit in the bible that says 'abuse kids'. Its indivduals that do it. There are plenty in the church that never abused anyone.

The Church is it's members. It's not separate. And the Church can't have it both ways. They are never slow to talk about how much good they do, how they (which means their members) help the sick and poor and how they try and promote positive values in society. They can't expect to be able to take praise for good stuff yet when anything bad happens say it's down to the individuals. It's the individuals who carry out the sick depraved acts and the good work.

The Church is responsible for some seriously sick sh*t that went on down the years, it mightn't have been their official policy, but it was certainly unofficial policy to treat kids like sh*t and move paedophile priests around to different locations letting them abuse more children. You cannot deny that it was Church policy to cover up abuse by their members and move deviant priests from location to location, as they have admitted it themselves. They are all to blame from their priests/brothers that raped and beat the kids right up to the bishops that enabled them to continue carrying out the abuse.

Noffles

I would say the fiddlers joined the catholic cult as they knew they would be protected and would be able to get away with it time after time...

It's shocking beyond comprehension, institutionalized child fiddlers... Yet still people go to church and listen to them prattle on about thou shalt not do this and that.....

Puddleduck

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

Apart from reading a newspaper report puddleduck do you have any inside knowledge of what went on in those places, no you don't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is anyone reading my posts. Your close to the subject. I never said these people should be allowed to hide behind the church. I said that they should be named and shamed. Perhaps you should take some time to calm down.

I agree that those within the church that hid what was going on should also face charges and be named and shamed. You could say the same of the Department of Education and lots of other people. To say that the entire organisation is corrupt is wrong. I am sure there are those within the church that are as sickened by the subject as you or I. However one high up corrupt will be heard before the others.

I also didnt say the church. I said religion.

Please read my posts.

PirateShampoo

Noffles wrote: »

I would say the fiddlers joined the catholic cult as they knew they would be protected and would be able to get away with it time after time...

It's shocking beyond comprehension, institutionalized child fiddlers... Yet still people go to church and listen to them prattle on about thou shalt not do this and that.....

So its the churchs falt for protecting them.

gimme5minutes

I'd like to take this opportunity to say what we are all thinking -

ITS TIME FOR THE CHURCH TO GTFO OF IRELAND FOR GOOD.

PirateShampoo

But its is the Catholic Religion Fault. It goes all the way to the Vatican. Its not just this country that the Catholic order has been abusing children in. They have done it globaly.

And whats worst they seem to think they are blamless.

If Jesus was alive today he would be kicking the Pope out of the temple, like he did with thoughs who abused it when he was alive.

Puddleduck

PirateShampoo wrote: »

But its is the Catholic Religion Fault. It goes all the way to the Vatican. Its not just this country that the Catholic order has been abusing children in. They have done it globaly.

And whats worst they seem to think they are blamless.

If Jesus was alive today he would be kicking the Pope out of the temple, like he did with thoughs who abused it when he was alive.

The definition of religion:
a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

Im pretty sure it dosent say its ok to abuse kids in the bible. Hense those higher up hid it.

gimme5minutes

Puddleduck wrote: »

Im pretty sure it dosent say its ok to abuse kids in the bible.

I wouldn't be so sure about that, it's probably in there alright as a subliminal message.

PirateShampoo

Puddleduck wrote: »

The definition of religion:
a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

Im pretty sure it dosent say its ok to abuse kids in the bible. Hense those higher up hid it.

And whos interperation of the bible are you following?

The Catholic Churchs thats whos.

They hide the abuse and they all report to somebody. The fact is they knew the **** that was happening and the scale it was happening on.

Did they try to stop it?

No they just hide it and let it continue. They knew this would distroy the churchs postion of power and they didnt want to lose it. So they let it continue.

They are all has guilty has each other and its time for the genuine priests and who ever else in the church to throw these scum bags to the wolves.

Noffles

PirateShampoo wrote: »

So its the churchs falt for protecting them.

Yes it is, the hierarchy of the church made efforts to move these f*ckers around with full knowledge of what they were doing... so YES, the Church and its leaders hid them... So yes it's the church's fault.

Warper

It is incomprehensible that these people are not going to be named - what kind of twisted society protects these animals. The Catholic Church and the Vatican are so corrupt it is sickening. They are a law unto themselves. These people are supposed to be God's advocates - give me a break. They are practically organised crime and even have their own state. God only knows what goes on behind the Vatican's walls - I shudder to think.

philologos

This is a clear disgrace. These people should be before a court and they should serve time for what they did to these people. This is categorically wrong. This is going to harm the reputation of the Catholic Church for generations, and I can understand exactly why. This criticism is also going to run off into the rest of Christianity and Christ's teachings which is tragic.

Nelson Muntz

How can anyone possibly not blame the church for this? Young priests become older priests then bishops & cardinals or whatever. Paedophile priests also go on to become senior members of the church. Any time a paedophile priest was transferred around from school to school or parish to parish, more guilt was attached to the structure of the church.

In the real world if your brother or father rapes someone & you cover it up & protect them, you can be charged. Why is the church allowed to prevent this from happening?

philologos

Nelson Muntz: Quite frankly they shouldn't be protected. They need to know the full result of what they have done, and justice needs to be served.

Loomis

What was the point of spending years doing a report if not to take action? Was it simply to say sorry at the end or am I missing something?
If that's all it's good for they could have said sorry 10 years ago and not asked people to relive it for a "sorry" 10 years down the line.

Nelson Muntz

The victims deserve justice and the guilty deserve punishment.

I would say there are many, many people that have been pushed away from religion by the catholic church.

If the church wants to be respected by the community and have a real future, it needs to reverse its position and be an open book to investigations and help to catch & punish the guilty.

It is not the old days where the church can rule with an iron fist by threats & intimidation. They need to earn back trust & respect.

steof1984

Rape is still illegal in this country isn’t it ? Someone please correct me if I’m wrong here but what I thought happens is if you rape someone the police come and arrest you then your tried because of it. So why is this not happening now? Is it because the sick ****s were all members of a “club”. I have an Xtravision card, I’m a member of Xtravision, so if all Xtravision members go out and rape kids will we get off with it ?

I have only read a bit of the report but I swear It sounds like a fictional horror book. Or something that would happen in a 3rd world country. Its hard to think this happened in this Country as recent as 50 years ago (even more recent). I mean 50Yrs its not that long ago.

These sick f*cks are still alive today, walking around without a care in the world after destroying thousands of lives. At least the Nazi officers responsible for their crimes are being hunted down and brought to Justice. These people should be named and shamed and f*ck the Christian Brothers and their Law Suit. Once again red tape and the Governments fear of pissing off an organisation prevails over justice.” Sure why should we fight for you, you’re just some poor knacker who doesn’t have a voice” And sure what will you do about it? Exactly Nothing.

Of all the corrupt messed up things our government has done in recent years. Of all the cover ups, of all the lies and deceit the cover up of these bastards is by far the biggest scar on the Government.


Again correct me if I am wrong but doesn’t the government serve the people. I know the next councillor that knocks to my door ill be asking why they are not leaning on their colleagues to bring these people to Justice. For all the Marches there have been recently there should be a March Organised to The Dail and demand that the government bring these people to justice. It’s the least they can do seeing as they were also involved in this mess. How could so many people just sit back and allow this to happen. Is there no Decency, Doctors, Judges ,Civil Servents, All just sat there and allowed these sick ****s to abuse little children. I mean 6 or 7 yr old defenceless children. How could you sleep at night knowing you did nothing and continued to allow this to happen? And just like there was cover ups then, there are cover ups now. So really what have we learned. We look back at this and think that was ireland of old. we've moved on from that. No we haven't were still covering up these crimes

This Country has let down an entire generation of its children and it continues to tell these people to **** off. Every day these Sick ****s walk free is a slap in the face to the children whose lives have been destroyed beyond belief.

I’m not an emotional guy, If anything I’ve been called a heartless bastard on more than 1 occasion. But when people do this kind of thing to children it fills me with Rage and Sadness. I don’t understand how the government can justify not tackling these people.

I’m looking at my 2 little sisters out playing. That’s what kids should do, play , the biggest worry on their mind should be will sweets rot my teeth. Not will the father or MS come into my room and rape me. For **** sake my 2 sisters don’t even know what rape is never mind having to experience it. I don’t know where the people abused in these places get the strength to go on day after day battling their demons. You are stringer than I am as I could not cope. You are true Hero’s.

If our government dont do anything then i would be ashamed to call myself Irish.

We as the nation should force them into bringing justice to these sick ****s and closure to these tortured people.

Aidric

Has Dan Brown commented on this yet?

Covey

Well Mary McAleese has. In case anyone doesn't know she possesses the highest office in the land, President, and this it what she had to say.

“It was an atrocious betrayal of love."

“My heart goes out to the victims of this terrible injustice

“This clear and thorough report has discharged an important public service in bringing these terrible matters to full light,”

Well now hang on a minute Mary, this just isn't good enough.

It's not a betrayal of love, it's a crime, including Murder and Rape, two of the most serious crimes on the statute books. Lets stop trying to minimise everything with pretty vaccous statements.

Injustice is a catch call generic term thats quite inappropriate in this regard. Being passed over for a promotion might be an injustice, so for god sake lets call a spade a spade and call it what it was a holocaust or some other term that describes what it was. It's a bloody emotive issue so lets use emotive terms and stop trying to sanitise everything.

And as for "discharging an important public service", no, no, no ,no. Discharging a public service is upholding the law for all citizens equally, applying the laws of rape and murder and other heinious crimes. No names, no prosecutions, no removal of the religious butchers from our education system and our health system also and the continued insult of the Catholic church having a privilaged position in our constitution.

As the first citizen, you've let us down, repeated what others have done and not stood up and be counted and told it like it is in plain unambiguous english.

Shame on you Mrs. President. In the unlikely event you don't read Boards a longer version of this is winging it's way to your office.

And today I feel utterly laden down with the profound shame of being Irish.

Warper

I'm also writing a letter to our Minister for Justice asking why they are exempt from prosecution -

http://www.dermotahern.ie/Contact_Dermot%20.htm

Surely under our Constitution there must be a way to prosecute them.