Institutional abuse was "endemic".. - MERGED

galwayrush

My name is URL wrote: »

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=TRt&as_q=sex+abuse&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&num=10&lr=&as_filetype=&ft=i&as_sitesearch=&as_qdr=d&as_rights=&as_occt=any&cr=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&safe=images

FFS:eek:Not even the search in Ireland only option. Shocking reading.

Aidric

There were underwear inspections and in one case, a boy was forced to lick excrement from a priest's shoe.

:eek::eek:

Uncle Arthur

why cant some of these sick fcuks be put to justice? surely some of them are still alive. makes the blood boil, really does.

RealEstateKing

stuff, that nobody ever talks about WHY such an enormous amount of abuse happens/happened within the Catholic Church.

It is obvious to anyone who knows how human beings work, that if you ask a human being to suppress their most natural human desire (sex) for their entire life, that in many of them this will come out in other ways, either through violence or through twiseted sexual means, or alcohol/drug abuse.

These people were not born violent peadophilic child abusers, they were made this way by being forced to take a vow of celibacy. Granted some preists managed to remain decent human beings while following this law, but even the most basic psychology tells us that human beings can never really repress desires, merely divert them.

hopalong85

RealEstateKing wrote: »

stuff, that nobody ever talks about WHY such an enormous amount of abuse happens/happened within the Catholic Church.

It is obvious to anyone who knows how human beings work, that if you ask a human being to suppress their most natural human desire (sex) for their entire life, that in many of them this will come out in other ways, either through violence or through twiseted sexual means, or alcohol/drug abuse.

These people were not born violent peadophilic child abusers, they were made this way by being forced to take a vow of celibacy. Granted some preists managed to remain decent human beings while following this law, but even the most basic psychology tells us that human beings can never really repress desires, merely divert them.

Sorry but no. Sure it isn't natural to remain celibate but these people knew what that vow entailed when they joined the priesthood. It's fcuking boll1x. Nobody had a gun to their head, there's no excuse for the beatings and sexual abuse they doled out. It's an absolute disgrace that the ones who still live won't be named or charged.:mad:

Aidric

galwayrush wrote: »

It made the headlines on BBC News at 10, at least the NI version.

Ya it's picking up a fair bit of international attention. It's the lead piece on the BBC's website at the moment.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/

gollyitsolly

What do the Christian brothers in Ireland do these days? Do they still teach? Is there a future for them here now or should they be dissolved,banished? Their name will go down in history for all the wrong reasons.

Latchy

Was the main headline on the BBC / ITN news this evening .Of course the goverment and institutions involved an Irish problem . But that would be letting them away with it again .Guilty should be brought to account ,just like former Nazis still are .

Latchy

gollyitsolly wrote: »

What do the Christian brothers in Ireland do these days? Do they still teach? Is there a future for them here now or should they be dissolved,banished? Their name will go down in history for all the wrong reasons.

Dont you mean for the right reasons ? Like whatever their mantra was at their formation , like the catholic church ,it's image of a caring ,christian organisation has being torn to shreads .

civis_liberalis

Due mostly to pure outrage of the OP, I decided to read the summary of the report.

Words can't describe how appalled I am, so I won't try.

The mere notion that someone might describe the abuse as "endemic" is perverted in itself, as it implies that the was abuse confined to a single location or area.

gollyitsolly

Latchy wrote: »

Dont you mean for the right reasons ? Like whatever their mantra was at their formation , like the catholic church ,it's image of a caring ,christian organisation has being torn to shreads .

Well of course I meant that all it portrayed and preached was a caring teaching profession . Its reputation is in shreds. I feel the name,the organization, its whole ethos should be done away with. Dissolved, banned ,banished,whatever the word is. It has no use or meaning in this country anymore. It should be remembered like the plague. And the cardinals and bishops and government ilk who were all members of this secret society? What of them? No accountability? It reeks of cover ups all round.

Latchy

gollyitsolly wrote: »

Well of course I meant that all it portrayed and preached was a caring teaching profession . Its reputation is in shreds. I feel the name,the organization, its whole ethos should be done away with. Dissolved, banned ,banished,whatever the word is. It has no use or meaning in this country anymore. It should be remembered like the plague. And the cardinals and bishops and government ilk who were all members of this secret society? What of them? No accountability? It reeks of cover ups all round.

A-1 .I couldn't agree more

Xiney

civis_liberalis wrote: »

The mere notion that someone might describe the abuse as "endemic" is perverted in itself, as it implies that the was abuse confined to a single location or area.

(Actually, the use of the word in this case means that it was all pervasive throughout the system.)


The Duplessis Orphans in Quebec were the last nail in the coffin for the Catholic Church there. They are converting churches into condominiums.

civis_liberalis

civis_liberalis wrote: »

Due mostly to pure outrage of the OP, I decided to read the summary of the report.

Words can't describe how appalled I am, so I won't try.

The mere notion that someone might describe the abuse as "endemic" is perverted in itself, as it implies that the was abuse confined to a single location or area.

i only read it for the same reason.. and i feel sick after reading through half the summary. castrate every last one of them and only then is there a start to justice.

markopantelic

just underlining my severe hatred for religion.


*btw i'm not actually religous contrary to my sig*

P_1

I feel so happy that the Church's influence in this country has diminished so much over the last two decades.

To think that you could be locked up in one of those hell holes for something as insignificant as mitching off school sickens me.

This could go much deeper than the church, from what I can tell there was significant collusion between the Church and the State in this. Also in many cases if not all cases this was essentially imprisonment without trial.

Fúck this was a bloody backwards country.

S.I.R

orestes wrote: »

words can't begin to express this kind of thing,

i can think of quite a few... my old lad was brought up by them... scars to prove. :rolleyes:

gollyitsolly

Its even on cbsnews in america as I type. Shame on Ireland.

Latchy

pithater1 wrote: »

I feel so happy that the Church's influence in this country has diminished so much over the last two decades.

To think that you could be locked up in one of those hell holes for something as insignificant as mitching off school sickens me.

This could go much deeper than the church, from what I can tell there was significant collusion between the Church and the State in this. Also in many cases if not all cases this was essentially imprisonment without trial.

Fúck this was a bloody backwards country.

Archbishop McQuaid had his spys all over ireland reporting back to him .They were in every corner of irish society , schools , hospitals, gardai , army , entertainment, industry, and he even had control over how reporters ( it wasn't the papparazzi media back then ) reported on the church , making sure that anything ,even slightly not in touch with catholic teachings, was deleted from newspaper articles .Censorship on anything resembling truth was surpressed .That is suppression and form of control that Stalin would have being proud of .

seanybiker

sick sick sick people. Nothing I can say will ever express how sick I feel to hear about what went on.

markopantelic

hopefully ireland becomes non-religious very soon, once this generation is gone,religion for the most part will be completely dead here.

RealEstateKing

Sorry but no. Sure it isn't natural to remain celibate but these people knew what that vow entailed when they joined the priesthood. It's fcuking boll1x. Nobody had a gun to their head, there's no excuse for the beatings and sexual abuse they doled out. It's an absolute disgrace that the ones who still live won't be named or charged

Explaining why something happened is not the same thing as apologising for it. I agree those responsible are reprehensible human beings and deserved to be named, shamed and punished. But it is also the fault of the Church for coming up with the completely stupid idea of celibacy in the first place. Thats all Im saying.

carlop

pithater1 wrote: »

I feel so happy that the Church's influence in this country has diminished so much over the last two decades.

To think that you could be locked up in one of those hell holes for something as insignificant as mitching off school sickens me.

This could go much deeper than the church, from what I can tell there was significant collusion between the Church and the State in this. Also in many cases if not all cases this was essentially imprisonment without trial.

Fúck this was a bloody backwards country.

The sheer brutality and horror of these revelations must leave a legacy:

Any further church involvement in the state has to be dispensed with. Church and State are two different entities, and should remain so. What is depressing is that France realised this 100 years ago, and our little backward island is only beginning to do so now. Even now, the blasphemy law that Brian Lenihan is currently trying to pass would suggest we may even be moving in the wrong direction, as frightening a thought as that may be.

Ann22

My nan used to say that when she was young the nuns that taught her were very cruel, she felt in looking back... the way they lived drove them that way. They put themselves through trials for the good of their souls as if they were living in the dark ages. Like even the headwear they had was tight and uncomfortable. They had to do penance..like spend hours on their knees praying and fasting. I'd say they just went barmy. My hearts broke picturing all the little ones trying their best to make the rosary beads in terror of making a mistake.
As for the perverts. I don't think celibacy caused paedophilistic tendencies but it wouldn't have helped at all. It's a disgrace that the b*stards responsible are getting away with this. They should be broadcast on the internet before they're all dead.
Not to forget the Christian Brothers institutions in other countries eg in Cleveland in Canada. There was a mini series made about it 'The Boys of St Vincent'.

watna

Xiney wrote: »

It's shocking.

This is a worldwide issue. Residential schools in Canada for aboriginal children, and the Duplessis Orphans.

Definitely, there was quite a large piece on it on the news here in NZ tonight. They are talking about opening up research in to abuse in residential care homes for children here now. It does go on everywhere. Ma

The piece on the news did make me feel quite ashamed to be Irish though. Especially when you could see how distraught the victims were. It was very moving.

Warper

I had heard that people had a very hard life in these "institutions" but I never fully realised how sick and depraved these people of the clergy actually were. My heart sunk when I was watching the Vincent Browne show last night on TV3 - if anyone saw it they will never forget what one of the victims said.

She described these institutions as hellholes. Examples are:

1. one such boy was raped everyday except Christmas Day as the brothers were unable to rape him that day as they were too pissed
2. They had to survive off rabbits faeces as they got no other food.
3. The order had a monkey who got treated far better than they did - it got fed nuts and other treats. They used to make the kids crouch down while the monkey masturbated on them. If anyone moved they got severely beaten/raped.
4. The order had a dog who would be set loose on the kids and take whole chunks out of them.
5. There were babies in their care who would be beaten and turned upside-down and even raped.
6. They were told their mothers worked with the red-light on - ie prostitutes or were told horrendous things about their parents. This person rang the Mother Superior in 1984 looking just for an apology. The MS said never forget that your mother was a prostitute and your father worked under the buses - not on the bus but under the bus. She was also reminded she was a third-class citizen. This same MS is still alive today.

It was shocking stuff - the victim said things happened there that she could not repeat as it would stun the country. She keeps the stuff locked away in her brain.

Even when they came out and started telling what actually happened no-one believed them. They were sent for constant psychiadric care - many committed suicide and almost all contemplated it.

The judges who sent these poor children to these hell-holes are just as much to blame. Sent for what - for walking the streets alone, for being poor, petty crimes, child of a single mother etc.. She also slammed the doctors who regularly had to see the wounds and beatings the children received. How could they not do anything? The Dept of Education knew, the Legal system knew, the Medical profession knew - jesus everybody knew.

super_furry

Hopefully this will be the final nail in the coffin of the Catholic Church's power in Ireland. The fact that they are still in charge of educating the majority of the nation's children is sickening.

Puddleduck

This has nothing to do with religion. This is to do with some very sick indivduals that worked with children. I havent read the report but I did read a small piece in the newspaper this morning.

God love the men and women that went through it. What I want to know is 'Why?'. Why has no one been brought up on charges? Why isnt there more outrage out there that this sort of thing happened? I really just hope that those that suffered can somehow find peace.

arybvtcw0eolkf

gollyitsolly wrote: »

. Shame on Ireland.

I can see where your coming from, but tbh I don't think its 'our' shame.

For the record, and I've posted about this here before.

I attended a Christian brother's school in the early 80's and they were a shower of cruel, evil bastards.

While I was never sexually assaulted, I was physically battered more times than I can possibly remember.

But there were alot of rumours from the boarders (pupils boarded at the school, they weren't interned) about various brother's and dodgy sexual practices.

We'd a swimming pool at the school, and had one Brother 'Frank the Willy Watcher' who wouldn't leave the changing rooms for love 'no money.

Does anyone know where I can pick up a copy of yesterdays report?.

My name is URL

Nathanael Worried Ally wrote: »

I can see where your coming from, but tbh I don't think its 'our' shame.

It's partly our shame imho.

Even today the church has a strangle hold over much of the education system and is a constant interference in day-to-day life. (the angelus..wtf!)

Sure the abuse isn't as bad as back then, but even now after the amount of public outrage over abuse/neglect, we still accept the church as part of daily life and don't seem to want to ditch the entire idea of it.

That is a shame

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