Best Get Your TV Licence Sorted

Peanut

When the license was introduced, there were no Xboxs/PS3s etc., a TV was much less multi-functional, so it was a well targeted tax.

If the terms of the license are now going to be expanded to include online capable machines, it might be more honest just to have a blanket "public service" tax, as the connection between owning the equipment and using the service has been greatly dissolved.

watty

peaceboi wrote: »

Do i need a tv licence for playing my xbox live on my new samsung lcd?? i have broadband, and pc is also hooked on to it. But i dont 've a set box or any receiver or connection to any terrestrial, please reply, a bit confused. Thank u.

Unless you physically "rip out" the TV tuner you need a licence.

A VHS, DVD recorder or PC with Tuner card feeding a Monitor only Screen is also a TV receiver and your house needs a licence.

One licence covers whole house except bedsit with its own kitchen.

Sean55

jor el wrote: »

I believe any device with an Internet connection is now a television and will require a TV licence

(my underlining)

Not so, this muddies agains some waters which had been clearing.

The Department of Communications, Energy & Natural Resources' FAQ says—

Q. Do I require a television licence for a computer which can access television-like services (e.g. the RTÉ Player or streaming services) over the Internet?
A. No. So long as the computer is unable to display television channels distributed by conventional television broadcasting networks (i.e cable, satillite, IPTV, analogue terrestrial, digital terrestrial or MMDS) e.g. using a television tuner card or similar device, then there is no requirement to hold a television licence. http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Broadcasting/Frequently+Asked+Questions/Television+Licence+FAQ.htm#10

So, precisely, a television licence will be needed for any location where there is a "device with an internet connection" where this device incorporates a tuner card. A computer with an internet connection but which isn't able to tune in to live broadcasts is not defined as a "television" and if that's all that's in a location, that place will not need a licence.

Sponge Bob

OK, most of that is perfectly clear. Now define "IPTV" for me Seán ??

jor el

The actual exemption list can be found here;
http://www.attorneygeneral.ie/esi/2009/B27053.pdf

Devices that are excluded are televisions capable of displaying TV broadcasts from the public Internet, though services like RTE player are not included in this, as RTE Player is not a broadcast anyway so the licence does not apply to it. There are many TV stations that broadcast over the Internet, but this would indicate that a television that's capable of displaying (only) this type of broadcast is exempt.

Under the law, a television set is defined as any electronic apparatus capable of receiving and exhibiting television broadcasting services broadcast for general reception (whether or not its use for that purpose is dependent on the use of anything else in conjunction with it) and any software or assembly comprising such apparatus and other apparatus,
so a computer connected to the Internet would seem to fit that description.

However, IPTV networks, and any television capable of displaying such broadcasts, are specifically NOT exempted from the requirement for a licence. So, as SB says, what is an IPTV, and is a computer an IPTV? Or can a computer display IPTV network broadcasts?

At the moment, no one is being asked to have a licence for a computer, and I don't think it's something that could be easily enforced if it were to come about, but you never know. There is, I believe, enough leeway in the current law, to bring any computer into the TV licence requirements.

watty

IPTV is TV via an IP connection, which may or may not be also used for Internet and may or may not be broadband.

The (IP)TV doesn't come via the Public Internet. It comes either from your connection provider or a server directly connected to your Provider's private network.

Basically "real" IPTV or "real" VOD doesn't work very well over the Public Internet as there is no way to provide QOS and the server costs are prohibitive as it's all unicast. On a dedicated network designed by your Provider, all of the IPTV is on a private network and much can be Broadcast (not even Multicast) not Unicast to save bandwidth. Except for VOD, which needs unicast thus is about 10,000 more expensive.

If you use Magnet PCTV, that is a true IPTV service, simply using the PC instead of setbox and TV, so you need a TV licence, because it is receiving "broadcasting services broadcast for general reception" , it's no different to a Cable Card in PC, if UPC allowed it. If you use a box, USB stick or card for Cable, Satellite or Terrestrial, free or pay, digital or Analogue TV, on a laptop or PC, then you need a TV licence as you have assembled an Apparatus for Broadcast TV.

VOD on IPTV is not counted. So if the IPTV provider ONLY does VOD, no live Broadcast, then it's not need a TV licence as it fails the test of "broadcasting services broadcast for general reception".

Live TV via a web player is exempt because it's not comparable quality at all to real IPTV or conventional Broadcast TV (Frame rate, compression artefacts, resolution, packet loss, reliability). You are deluded if you think any Web TV stream is decent quality. The so called HD streaming services are poorer than some S-VHS tapes and don't compare with regular DVDs. I've tested on decent 8Mbps, 20Mbps and 100Mbps connections.

Most IPTV services are basically Cable TV delivered by IP on fibre from a head end instead of DVB-c on coax from cabinet fed by fibre from a head end.

If you have a TV licence and one kitchen, then even a shared house, one Licence covers any number of "TVs"

Bruthal

Well all the arguing can go on forever, but at the end of the day its an RTE licence. They call it a tv licence because this will bring virtually everyone into the licence net. In the early 70s it was a radio licence because everyone had a radio but not as many had tv`s.

If tv`s were superceeded by projectors overnight, then it would certaily become a projector licence very quickly.

Tv`s a few years ago were used for just that, as a tv to view tv broadcasts. These days they are used for a lot more, for ps3`s etc.

So its just called a tv licence so everyone must pay for our national station regardless if they ever avail of it. I have no way of watchin it at present, but must pay the licence anyway because i have a tv.
So all the ``tv licence`` advocates can go on about it being a tv licence so you must pay once you have a tv, but in reality its a fee to pay for a service and named a tv licence simply to ensure everyone pays whether or not they use it. We have gun licences to record who has guns for good reason. Why is a tv licence needed? Purely to pay for a service. Nothing at all to do with the tv.

watty

You can get a monitor with HDMI & DVI/VGA
That will play DVDs. BD, modern consoles. No TV licence needed.

You can also get the tuner removed from a TV. Then it's a Monitor.

The TV licence was discussed in 1950s and brought in BEFORE RTE TV existed. The fact that RTE, TG4 and a lesser extent TV3 are part funded is a later decision. RTE TV started on last day of 1961.

You know what % of a Road Tax disk goes to finance Roads?

Bruthal

watty wrote: »

You can get a monitor with HDMI & DVI/VGA
That will play DVDs. BD, modern consoles. No TV licence needed.

You can also get the tuner removed from a TV. Then it's a Monitor.

The TV licence was discussed in 1950s and brought in BEFORE RTE TV existed. The fact that RTE, TG4 and a lesser extent TV3 are part funded is a later decision. RTE TV started on last day of 1961.

You know what % of a Road Tax disk goes to finance Roads?

Not a lot of point comparing it to motor tax, if i go to australia for 6 months i can leave my car in garden and not use it, i dont have to pay the 6 months motor tax. But i still own the car.

If i have a monitor then i still need to get rid of aerials and sat dishes etc, even though i now do not have a TV.
So its not really a tv licence is it, its a tax and called a tv licence to make sure no one is exempt even if the tv is in the attic never used. What it was or how it was set up in the 50`s is of little relevance now.

But as matter of interest, there was no TV licence in the 50`s, the TV licence was introduced for the establishment of RTE in 1962.
Before this, if a house hold had a radio, they needed a wireless licence, if they had no radio but just a tv then the same wireless licence was needed for the tv.

watty

No you don't

Aerials and Sat dishes can have other purposes or not be in use.

You can cut plug off TV and lock it away and invite them to inspect.

We get these threads regularly in ICDG forums in Boards. Usually people with an axe to grind against RTE but happy to give €600 a year to Sky even though even the VAT leaves the Country. In this case that isn't true.

You CAN prove you don't have a TV without taking aerials or Dishes down.
You can even transfer location of licence when you move. I had two licences, one for home and one for apartment in Dublin. I was able to transfer unused portion of Licence for Apartment 1 month after I moved out when home licence expired.

The system is not unusually draconian or awkward. They do assume everyone has a TV, but if you have a TV converted to a Monitor and don't have any method to receive TV you can invite them in and prove it. It would need to be 100% clear that the TV is impossible to be used other than monitor. Physically no tuner and no socket.

I used to run a company converting Thorn TVs to be Computer Monitors for Schools.

Just like taking a Car off the road.

Yes, it's a TAX, on any having any apparatus for viewing Television. At least you only pay one no matter how many Apparatuses you have. That's why I used the Road disk. Unlike TV Licence very little of it goes to Roads. RTE doesn't get all the Licence and relies on Commercial revenue too. I wish the licence was more and Adverts banned on RTE Radio and on RTE TV inside programs.

EoghanConway

I've heard this idea of removing the tuner from a tv before but has anyone ever tried it? Edit: Ok, I see someone has!

I do feel it's not a "real" license as you don't need any training to operate one as you would with a car or gun, there is no real responsibility involved (not many televisions worry sheep), and the license covers the premises and not the tv itself. A more truthful definition would be nice (tv possession tax?)

Bruthal

watty wrote: »

No you don't

Aerials and Sat dishes can have other purposes or not be in use.

You can cut plug off TV and lock it away and invite them to inspect.

We get these threads regularly in ICDG forums in Boards. Usually people with an axe to grind against RTE but happy to give €600 a year to Sky even though even the VAT leaves the Country. In this case that isn't true.

You CAN prove you don't have a TV without taking aerials or Dishes down.
You can even transfer location of licence when you move. I had two licences, one for home and one for apartment in Dublin. I was able to transfer unused portion of Licence for Apartment 1 month after I moved out when home licence expired.

The system is not unusually draconian or awkward. They do assume everyone has a TV, but if you have a TV converted to a Monitor and don't have any method to receive TV you can invite them in and prove it. It would need to be 100% clear that the TV is impossible to be used other than monitor. Physically no tuner and no socket.

I used to run a company converting Thorn TVs to be Computer Monitors for Schools.

Just like taking a Car off the road.

I cant believe all that, so if i have a monitor, a sky box, but cut the plug off my tv in bedroom, i wont need a licence?? No, cant see that as true. I have no axe to grind with RTE,

Bruthal

watty wrote: »

Just like taking a Car off the road.

So you think removing the tuner is like taking the car off the road, i dont think so, i guess i could remove the engine from the car, that would do the trick.

Yes, it's a TAX, on any having any apparatus for viewing Television. At least you only pay one no matter how many Apparatuses you have.

And that makes it good does it, that an unemployed family are prosecuted
because they cant afford one, while the millionaire with 50tv`s pays the same €160. The vast majority of people prosecuted are low income persons. Sounds like our government alright.

That's why I used the Road disk. Unlike TV Licence very little of it goes to Roads. RTE doesn't get all the Licence and relies on Commercial revenue too. I wish the licence was more and Adverts banned on RTE Radio and on RTE TV inside programs.

Yes but if we dont use the car we dont pay. If we have a tv you must pay, even if its switched off for a year and no one is in the house. You can give us your tv licence inspector type ideals all day, its just not right.

You wish the licence was more? Enough said i think.

Bruthal

watty wrote: »

No you don't

Aerials and Sat dishes can have other purposes or not be in use.

You can cut plug off TV and lock it away and invite them to inspect.

From the citizens info page
If your household, business or institution possesses a television or equipment capable of receiving a television signal, you are required by law to have a television licence. Even if the television or other equipment is broken and currently unable to receive a signal, it is regarded as capable of being repaired so it can receive a signal and you must hold a licence for it. Failure to produce evidence of a television licence to an inspector can result in a court appearance and on conviction, you can receive a substantial fine. People who have been fined and who have breached court orders directing them to pay their television licence can be imprisoned


Would that include a cut off plug i wonder. Seems easy enough to repair that.

Bruthal

EoghanConway wrote: »

I've heard this idea of removing the tuner from a tv before but has anyone ever tried it? Edit: Ok, I see someone has!

I do feel it's not a "real" license as you don't need any training to operate one as you would with a car or gun, there is no real responsibility involved (not many televisions worry sheep), and the license covers the premises and not the tv itself. A more truthful definition would be nice (tv possession tax?)

Removing the tuner does exempt the tv set itself, once you have no other equipment to receive the tv signals, but once you have tv receiving equipment you still need the licence, even if you have no tv or monitor.

It is a tax, you really did need an actual tv at one stage in 80`s and 90`s. But now any aparatus that can pick up a tv signal is in the licence net. As i said, its just to make sure everyone pays, like a poll tax it is.

Bruthal

watty wrote: »

I wish the licence was more and Adverts banned on RTE Radio and on RTE TV inside programs.

Im guessing you were delighted when the fee jumped from €100 to €150 4 or 5 years ago, satisfied that the adds would reduce on RTE.
So if it now increases again by another 50% in a single increase, you would be safe in the knowledge the add content would disappear.

Sam Kade

robbie7730 wrote: »

It is a tax, you really did need an actual tv at one stage in 80`s and 90`s. But now any aparatus that can pick up a tv signal is in the licence net. As i said, its just to make sure everyone pays, like a poll tax it is.

Does this include so called broadband that takes 10 minutes to play a 2 minute youtube clip?

Bruthal

Sam Kade wrote: »

Does this include so called broadband that takes 10 minutes to play a 2 minute youtube clip?

It does`t at present, but if suddenly everyone stopped using tv`s as the medium to watch transmissions and instead 95% of people used only broadband to watch tv, it would soon be renamed a broadband licence.

Bruthal

watty wrote: »

No you don't
We get these threads regularly in ICDG forums in Boards. Usually people with an axe to grind against RTE but happy to give €600 a year to Sky even though even the VAT leaves the Country. In this case that isn't true.

O €600 euro to sky, thats awful, but if they decide to pay this €600 its because they want to watch the sky channels.

watty

robbie7730 wrote: »

Im guessing you were delighted when the fee jumped from €100 to €150 4 or 5 years ago, satisfied that the adds would reduce on RTE.
So if it now increases again by another 50% in a single increase, you would be safe in the knowledge the add content would disappear.

That's trolling as no-one made any such condition and you know it. In fact BAI has allowed TV3 to increase advertising, even though they could commission content and get part of licence fee, instead of being a poor copy of UTV.

watty

robbie7730 wrote: »

O €600 euro to sky, thats awful, but if they decide to pay this €600 its because they want to watch the sky channels.

Actually in many cases it's lack of information that they can get good quality Irish reception by once off aerial install (digital today and shortly much better HD) as well as all the main UK channels and 30+ other reasonable channels, 70 Radio out of 200+ channels free once off via Satellite. Even simply just by cancelling Sky as unlike UPC you own the equipment and there are legally free channels)

People can experiment just by select Sky News 501, press interactive, wait till loaded, remove card (so now same as cancelled, without cancelling), press backup, ignore error message, don't insert card, wait, press EPG and BBC is now 101.
C4 and Five can be added manually if not on program guide. To return to PayTV, insert card (or renew subscription and put card in even a year after cancelling and PayTV is back in minutes), guide swaps back in a couple of seconds to RTE as 101.

Bruthal

watty wrote: »

That's trolling as no-one made any such condition and you know it. In fact BAI has allowed TV3 to increase advertising, even though they could commission content and get part of licence fee, instead of being a poor copy of UTV.

What do you mean its trolling, you made a statement saying you would like licence fees increased. If my reply is trolling then pointless arguing with ye

emo72

cant we just make rte go away? who wants it? im not prepared to pay for rte, so rte can just go and FO. i thought i lived in a democracy, i thought i had choices.

seriously we should run a poll do away with rte or keep it. either way i dont want to pay for it. let private companies open up and provide a service.

sorry guys its a wet wintry wednesday in ireland. always brings on a rant.

jor el

And there ends the TV Licence debate in the Broadband forum.