Best Get Your TV Licence Sorted

Pa ElGrande

If you don't want to pay, how feasible is it to block the RTE domain and ip address range on your router firewall. You then have a device that is not capable of receiving any "broadcasts" from RTE.


inetnum: 89.207.56.0 - 89.207.56.255
netname: IE-RTE-IPV4-NETBLK1

http://www.db.ripe.net/whois?form_type=simple&full_query_string=&searchtext=89.207.56.140&do_search=Search

Sponge Bob

Just complain to Minsiter Ryan instead through http://www.eamonryan.ie/ or www.oir.ie or www.dcenr.ie , ideally all three .

hightower1

So a tv license is to cover the overheads of the national broadcaster to some degree seeing as if you have a tv set you have the ability to receive their "free" to air signal. Never really an issue for me seeing as its our own national broadcaster but by this logic the point of a computer/tv license is that because you can receive tv on your computer you still need the license?

Does this mean that now be can receive tv from all over the globe as a standard on your computer and not just rte's signal that we would be funding ALL national broadcasters then lol. Somehow I cant see the government dividing up the cash to send out globally lol!

Its an utterly ridiculous idea, I realise we all need to dig in an get the country through this downturn no matter who's fault it is but that's what the pay levy is about. Not coming up with ideas like this... the brain child of late night "turning the sofa cushions upside down for spare cash" dail meetings.

Sponge Bob

They have 2 choices before them this year and will take the easy one as always.

1. Increase the TV Licence by maybe €20 in a recession , that will cause mayhem. RTE are bang in the middle of an unusually large Capex spend as they roll out DTT nationwide at present .

or

2. Improve the revenue from the existing base and bring more people into the net . That is now feasible post Broadcasting Act 2009 as they appoint more collection agents like 3 Ireland and eircom and reduce their reliance on An Post as the only collection agent .

Of course what Ryan will not tell you is that you will INEVITABLY receive TV Licence payment demands fom ALL of them at the same time and will henceforth spend ages beating them and their debt collectors away from the door every year .

If you have direct debits in place you will be goosed x 3 and will have to claim it all back .....Imagine the mess that is eFlow, repeated.

Cabaal

Its abit of a cop out, there are loads of business in Ireland that have no TV or VCR or ariel or anything capable of receiving TV signals but now because they have "Broadband" and a PC or Laptop they now have to shell out for a license.

Its a joke

jor el

I have never not had a TV licence in the last 14 years, and the first one of these companies to bill me looking for more, will receive a bill from me for the inconvenience.

As for whether you could avoid if you don't/can't/won't use the RTE live application, I can only imagine that if they apply the same rules to this as to current TV rules, then you won't be able to avoid it. Remember that if you have a TV, even one that cannot receive RTE, then you have to have a licence. If you have a computer (of any variety) and Internet connection (but no TV), then I'd would be sure they'll want you to have a licence.

As said, anyone concerned should contact Minister Ryan, and let him know your feelings.

Capt'n Midnight

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

If you don't want to pay, how feasible is it to block the RTE domain and ip address range on your router firewall. You then have a device that is not capable of receiving any "broadcasts" from RTE.

That defence doesn't work
people have tried to get out of TV licence by claiming the TV was modified to render it incapable of reception, the ruling IIRC is if you can undo the mod's then they don't count.

Sparks

Nice to see we're serious about rolling out high-speed broadband then...

vibe666

it's just another way to tax people to generate more revenue for the government. if it wasn't this it would be something else.

i can see how they are thinking though. not that i like the idea of paying even more `than i already am to get on the net, but technically speaking, any PC with a broadband connection is able to to receive the RTE player now so it's just as capable of receiving a TV signal as a TV is.

i'm not sure how they're going to approach the mobile phones though, since a lot of those are now wifi equipped and capable of playing back flash based video and the like, not to mention some coming with digital tv tuners built in now too.

Sparks

How exactly are they going to differentiate between those who (shock, horror) download (for argument's sake, let's say perfectly legitimate) video footage using some sort of p2p protocol; people who listen to streaming audio like the bbc radio stuff; people who watch streaming video from outside the state which the state can have no sane claim on for tax purposes (like youtube); and people who watch RTE online?

BendiBus

I didn't think the definition of 'broadcast' included any type of streaming, as this is a 'narrowcast' from one ip address to another. i.e nothing gets cast until it's explicitly asked for.

I'll believe this when I see people getting done for not having a licence for their laptop.

Cabaal

Its a essentially a "Broadband Tax" because if you have a PC and dialup you can't use the stream and can claim is not capable of receiving it,

However if you have Broadband and are running some variant of Linux or another OS that can't view the stream they will claim its still capable of receiving it you just got to undo the "modifications" by changing to another OS.

I fail to see how this will encourage any small business thats still on dialup to change to Broadband because the second they do they have to fork out an extra 160e a year for the honour.

What a fantastic system.

Cabaal

Sparks wrote: »

How exactly are they going to differentiate between those who (shock, horror) download (for argument's sake, let's say perfectly legitimate) video footage using some sort of p2p protocol; people who listen to streaming audio like the bbc radio stuff; people who watch streaming video from outside the state which the state can have no sane claim on for tax purposes (like youtube); and people who watch RTE online?

They won't, if your PC is "capable" of receiving the RTE stream then thats it, if you never visit the RTE website that don't care (same as if you never watch RTE on your TV)

Sparks

That's the part I have a problem with - I mean, how in the name of little blue apples do they think they have any moral or ethical right to claim tax on youtube?

vibe666

its not tax on youtube. it's tax on a device capable of receiving a TV signal, just like it's always been.

only now they've broadened the definition of what exactly that is by including newer technologies that have come out since the licence in it's current form was introduced.

nobody in the goverment is going to differentiate between youtube, or the RTE player or someones big stash of pr0n, it's all the same to them, so it's all taxable.

it's another one of those "if you don't like it vote for someone else" type deals.

inevitably nobody is going to like it because it'll mean more tax, but unless there's a major change in government or major protests it's not likely to change. i don't think a bunch of pasty faced keyboard warriors like us objecting to it here is going to make a huge amount of difference.

Sleipnir

vibe666 wrote: »

inevitably nobody is going to like it because it'll mean more tax, but unless there's a major change in government or major protests it's not likely to change. i don't think a bunch of pasty faced keyboard warriors like us objecting to it here is going to make a huge amount of difference.

But for people who already posess a T.V. license for their T.V., it won't mean more tax. Or will it....?

Sparks

vibe666 wrote: »

its not tax on youtube. it's tax on a device capable of receiving a TV signal, just like it's always been.

That's a nice thought, but the problem is that it's not the same at all. The TV licence tax followed naturally on from the original Radio licence; but in both those cases, a national station was set up because otherwise few people could take advantage of the medium.

Here, we have an established medium and because a new content provider appears, we're being taxed regardless of whether or not we avail of that new content (or even, as in my case, if we're unable to do so). Which means this is the equivalent of me starting a new blog, then taxing everyone who can open a socket on port 80, regardless of whether they ever do, or if they do, whether they ever read my blog.

Not only that, but there's nothing the government is providing here in terms of the medium, nor is there anything they own that we're using to use the medium. With TV/Radio, the government (in theory at least) owns the spectrum and control it - it's a national resource and we're taxed for using it. Here, it's not - everyone who has broadband is going over the 'national' telecoms network, but that was privatised in the Eircom IPO, so it's not government property. Neither are the international links. So where's their claim to tax here?

And while this is just a bunch of pasty faced keyboard junkies bitching right now, I hear that that e-voting thing didn't do so well, and that wasn't an issue that could potentially charge 160-odd euro to every company in Ireland that is either in IT or which uses IT. E-voting didn't risk stunting the rollout of broadband, nor did it run the risk of damaging the economy. And it still got hosed.

christophicus

This might be a stupid question. But how are they going to prove that you actually have a PC/Laptop? Sure if they come to the door, you can just deny them entry ? And if they are using BB accounts ( is it legal for the ISPs to release account info to the government ? ) some people could technically argue that they may have broadband, but nothing that they can actually watch TV with, eg nintendo DS or something of that ilk.

merlie

This is getting ridiculous. RTE just want more cash to boost them through the recession and are looking at putting a licence for anyone viewing the web player on their website.

I really think that if they decide to introduce a license then I would prefer a broadband tax which would be billed along with your broadband fee. This I would much prefer.

I prefer TV3 to RTE anyday and they are not in the licence fold but you dont hear them grumbling they just get on with it.

In any case we are not getting good broadband speeds in this country

Sparks

You can't deny access to tv licence inspectors legally.

The more I think about this the angrier the stupidity makes me.
Hell, you can't even watch all the RTE programmes on their site (even if the player works, which it doesn't for me), they don't have the rights to 'broadcast' them online. :mad:

Sparks

merlie wrote: »

I really think that if they decide to introduce a license then I would prefer a broadband tax which would be billed along with your broadband fee. This I would much prefer.

On what grounds could they tax your broadband fee? They don't own the network it's provided over, they don't own the links out of the country, they don't have claim over the medium, and no national resources are being used (because of their choices in the Eircom IPO). So how can a tax be justified? "We want more money" isn't a valid justification!

vibe666

Sleipnir wrote: »

But for people who already posess a T.V. license for their T.V., it won't mean more tax. Or will it....?

you only need one TV licence per household so it's not going to affect anyone who already has a TV and a licence, unless they put it up.

they're just increasing the tax base.

it's like them deciding that instead of just taxing beer, they'll tax beer wines and spirits because they can all get you drunk and you pay tax on owning it, not using it. if you buy a bottle of whiskey and leave it on a shelf for your whole life and never touch it you've still paid the tax on it.

I'd like to point out at this point that I don't work for teh taxman and have no vested interest in people paying more (or less) taxes of any kind.

actually, come to think of it, since i already have a TV (with a licence) it's not going to affect me at all. :cool:

godskitchen

I will do jail time before I pay for a service I will never use.

hightower1

As i have said previously , the amount of devices that area able to display tv is far more vast than the government realise.

Another point being that what now for all companies that use a computer which is just about all of them.... all able to accept a tv stream and will now need a license lol!

The impracticality of this idea is hilarious, they have wandered from an Analogue age into the digital one with less than half a clue lol.
I cant remeber the last business I saw that didnt use a computer.

christophicus

Sparks wrote: »

You can't deny access to tv licence inspectors legally.

What ?? Even the gardai need a warrent with a legitamit concern to search your house don't they ? How can a TV licenece inspector fall outside of that law ?

jor el

Sparks wrote: »

You can't deny access to tv licence inspectors legally.

You can deny them access, but they'll just get a warrant, and come back with the Gardai. This is how it works for TV inspection.

As for getting details from ISPs, if a law is passed (if it hasn't already), then they'll be able to do it. I'd imagine this is all be included in the bill that is currently being passed.

Sparks

christophicus wrote: »

What ?? Even the gardai need a warrent with a legitamit concern to search your house don't they ? How can a TV licenece inspector fall outside of that law ?

There are several classes of people who can gain admittance to your house like that. Customs inspectors, Firearms Range inspectors, etc, etc.

Like I've said a hundred times before, the more you look at Irish law, the less you like what you see.

Boston

Sparks wrote: »

There are several classes of people who can gain admittance to your house like that. Customs inspectors, Firearms Range inspectors, etc, etc.

Like I've said a hundred times before, the more you look at Irish law, the less you like what you see.

Customs inspectors cannot enter you premises without your permission or a warrent. Firearm inspectors have right of access as per your license. Show the legislation whereby a TV inspector can enter your premises without a warrent.

hellboy99

Do I now have to get a licence for this



And what about cars that have in dash TV's

steve 0

Sparks wrote: »

Hell, you can't even watch all the RTE programmes on their site (even if the player works, which it doesn't for me), they don't have the rights to 'broadcast' them online. :mad:

Based on this and the reduced quality, if they are to introduce it, the charge should be lower than for a standard TV license to reflect the reduced service.

In the UK you need a license if

you watch or record television programmes as they're being shown on TV. It makes no difference what equipment you use - whether it’s a laptop, PC, mobile phone, digital box, DVD recorder or a TV set - you still need a licence.

You do not need a TV Licence to

view video clips on the internet, as long as what you are viewing is not being shown on TV at the same time as you are viewing it.
If you use a digital box with a hi-fi system, or another device that can only be used to produce sounds and can't display TV programmes, and you don't install or use any other TV receiving equipment, you don't need a TV Licence.