DCM Novices / Sub 4:30 Mentored thread

goofygirl

my training has been very sporadic over the past few weeks: did a half-marathon last weekend (2 hrs 8 mins) , then nothing all week - but I cycle to work - then ran a 10km today (55 mins 9 secs).

need to get some sort of routine going!

so going to join a running club out here in Canada - their marathon training group meets every Tuesday night so I'm going to go along for that. can't help but feel intimidated that it will be full of "proper" runners though.

osnola ibax

I had a very bad week this week, one run, 5.7 miles (hangs head in shame), don't know what went wrong, 6 weeks to 5 miler in park though so still motivated by that

Oryx

Osnola.. I wouldnt stress about it, its like dieting. If you have a bad week, you just put it behind you and give the next week a good shot. I get those kind of weeks too.
I got out for twelve miles yesterday. Didnt expect to do that distance but the legs felt better than in ages. I think a break in the middle of the week helped.

osnola ibax

Thanks oryx, that makes me feel better

Triangle

Hey all - just popping on for a quick update

Been a bad two weeks here Had a glute/Knee issue so the running has decreased big time - down to about 15 miles/week for the last two weeks (no long runs)

On the positive news - the pain seems to be dissappearing so hopefully this week i'll get back to the longer runs - all going well.

I've also signed up for the adidas race series, so i might see some of ye around.

Nice to see everyone is doing so good - gives me motivation to get back on track.

--amadeus--

Oryx is right, light weeks every now and again (especially pre "proper" training) won't do you any harm at all. If it makes you feel any better I have only ran 3 times in the last fortnight. Even once the schedule starts it's only natural that you'll miss runs every now and again (again using myself as an example I have never managed to not miss a full week of training during a program). Consistency is the key, as long as you make most of teh sessions most of teh time you'll be alright.

Goofy - we're all proper runners. Serious point, there is a mindset to this that you all must get into. When you get to the 18 - 22 mile stage of a marathon it *will* be hurting. Self doubt will start to come in and any mental weakness will get exploited - if you are in the habit of thinking of yourself as "not a proper runner" then it's easier to think "ohh I'll slow to a walk for a bit, I'm not a proper runner" or even "I'm not a runner, this was a stupid idea, I'll drop out". No negativity here!!

osnola ibax

Cheers amadeus, I'm loving these positive messages, feeling much better already. By my calculations there is only 2 weeks to go to propped programme. I was reading that very good post from tergat yesterday with interest.

He spoke about the benefits of running every day and I think that this might suit me because mentally I lose focus when I think about rest days. Eg there the days when I can eat as much as I like and generally do nothing. I think I would b more focussed on what I'm eating if I knew I had to squeeze a run in every day. I also have a weird feeling of guilt on the days I don't run.

Now I'm only talking about easy 3 milers replacing previous rest days, but enought to give that mental benefit. Just a thought.

Sub430

Tergat's post made a lot of sense to me too. I'm going to finish the HH spring training including rest days before we start the proper training so just wondering how many days running will be in your training schedule amadeus sir?

--amadeus--

Yeah, I think thats right, although we might do a "lead in week" to get the ball rolling.

Tergat knows his stuff and what he is saying makes a lot of sense but do read it in the context of experience.

Lets take someone like Woddle as an example, since he contributed to that thread. He's been running for a couple of years, has several marathons under his belt and probably averages 30 - 40 miles a week in training. For him bringing in gentle runs instead of rest days will be beneficial - he upps his mileage but sustainably. And because he has been running for so long his chances of injury from the extra runs are minimal - his body has adapted to teh rstrains.

For a novice though those extra runs may be counter productive, pushing mileage increases up to the point where the chance of injury increases. Likewise your body - especially early on - needs time off from running to regenerate and repair. I'm pretty sure that Tergat was aiming his advice at more experienced / faster runners aiming to race the marathon rather than first timers looking mainly to get round.

So if you do it be careful!

[edit - sub430 posted before I hit submit...]

The plan we are going to follow is the very respected Hal Higdon Novice program (here). This is 4 days of running, one day of cross training and one day of rest and is geared very much to people at our level. Mileage is low (for a marathon) so there is room to add short, slow runs on teh rest / cross training days if you feel able for it. There are also 2 levels so you can cherry pick your preferred distances

But I will stress again that this forum caters for runners of all abilities - from 2:45 marathons to 5 hour plus. The advice from Tergat was excellent but (IMO) not necessarily aimed at novices.

Sub430

Cheers Amadeus, I was thinking that Tergat's advice was for the more experienced runner but thanks for clarifying. There is so much good information on this forum but it is sometimes hard for a novice to sort that which applies to them from that which is above them (for now! ).

osnola ibax

Sub430 wrote: »

(for now! ).

Noice!

--amadeus--

tergat wrote: »

amadeus,

With those just starting off running or real novice runners, having cross-training days and rest days is fine. Once they keep the training consistant, overtime they can gradually increse their volume of running. Remember though its a long term process when trying to increase running volume there are no short cuts.

Walking is fine also but aqua jogging or swimming would be better. Remember again that all types of individuals adapt to training in different ways. You as the coach will have all the ingredients neccessary to make the perfect meal. You have to use these ingredients along the journey to suit the individual tastes so to speak.

Tergat

In case anyone missed it in teh other thread...

Sub430

You as the coach will have all the ingredients neccessary to make the perfect meal. You have to use these ingredients along the journey to suit the individual tastes so to speak.

No pressure then chef.

osnola ibax

Time management

I think I may be onto something. I just went for my first lunch time run and all in all I was gone 1 hr 15 mins, he he another time to run. 3.3 miles 28 mins 45 secs, think that's 8 min 42 sec miles. Now wonder if I can squeeze one in before work on another day, guilt free training here we come!! Woohoo

--amadeus--

Sub430 wrote: »

You as the coach will have all the ingredients neccessary to make the perfect meal. You have to use these ingredients along the journey to suit the individual tastes so to speak.

No pressure then chef.

You guys are all self coached, I'm just a mentor :P

Sub430

Morning all,

Decided to log my runs each day instead of on a weekly basis, I''m thinking the more daily activity on this thread, the more motivated we will all be (plus saves me having to remember what I did)

Hal Higdon Spring training week 11 of 12.

3m run - 1st at slow pace, 2nd mile normal, 3rd - pegged it. 24m12
Avg HR 162

osnola ibax

Yeah I have a seperate training log but sometimes find myself double posting workouts, not sure whether to scrap the other and just post here or maintain the other for daily workouts, I think I'll hold on to the other for daies cause it's easier to see stuff at a glance rather than scrolling through other posts

Sub430

3m this morning: 24m26 : HR 155-170 : Avg 164

goofygirl

One word - intervals.

So up until this point I've only ever run by myself - actually I quite like the time alone to think and listen to music.

But given that the loneliness of the long distance runner I thought that since I'm training for a marathon now it'd be nice to have some company to help me keep on track (no pun intended). Also I've just moved to a new city so figured it would be a good way to meet people.

So last night I went along to the specific marathon training group of a local running club.

1 km warm-up jog, followed by 4 x 800m intervals (so each of which took about 4 mins, speedy I am not) with a minute of walking in between each. My God. Having never done any speedwork ever in my life before I had legs of jelly by the end.

Then a gentle 5km run back to the start.

Looks like it's going to be quite the summer ahead! My only goal is to finish the DCM in one piece so fingers crossed this will all help

Oryx

goofygirl that sounds really good, esp the way you say an easy 5k back. Time was 5k was the sum total of my running in a session.

Im still plodding away with no particular plan, which has me impressed with you lot, who all seem to be following some kind structured programme. Its funny, I did 12 miles on Sunday and loved it, and just over 4 last night and it was 'orrible. I think your head plays tricks on you.

Sub430

Oryx wrote: »

Im still plodding away with no particular plan, which has me impressed with you lot, who all seem to be following some kind structured programme. Its funny, I did 12 miles on Sunday and loved it, and just over 4 last night and it was 'orrible. I think your head plays tricks on you.

Plodding - you did 10 miles under 1h20 if I remember correctly? I think we're all trying to catch you Oryx.:)

As for following a programme, if I didn't follow one, I would be at nothing. I need some sort of structure or I'll find any excuse to do something other than that what I'm supposed to be doing. Anyway the real training starts soon so you'll have that to follow.

3.5m this morning : 27m53 : Fast finish : Avg HR 163

Oryx

Sub430 wrote: »

3.5m this morning : 27m53 : Fast finish : Avg HR 163

I think my pace on training runs is similar to yours. Dont ever check my hr, do you think thats important in getting your training right (asking everyone)?

osnola ibax

Really struggling with motivation and diet at the moment, last fortnight has been bad. I'm the greatest proctrastonator of all time."I'll change my ways tomorrow, or I'll wait til next Monday (which is where my mind is at now). Anyways, I'm on stag do the weekend after next so I'm gonna start my 18 week programme on Monday (so I still get all long runs in), gonna try to get out for runs sat and sun this week aswell, just make myself go.

I'm sure it'll be better once the programme starts proper, maybe I should invest in the anita bean book mentioned in the main forum

stream of consciousness end...

Sub430

Oryx wrote: »

I think my pace on training runs is similar to yours. Dont ever check my hr, do you think thats important in getting your training right (asking everyone)?

Personally I find it invaluable, before using it I would run at different speeds depending on my moods, sometimes I would run far too quickly and would feel it in my legs for days. The HRM now sets my limits and is great especially for the long slow runs where without it I would run far too quickly.

The HRM is also handy to see if you are getting fitter. My resting heart rate has fallen from 57 to 48 since this training began.

As the boss said in a previous post:

HR training is something of a black art. Done correctly there is absolutely no doubt that it is the most effective way of training. However it is very, very hard for an amateur to do correctly, at least without full lab support. Running everything at a steady pace is fine for now but you're right this will be changing once we get into proper training.

http://www.runningforfitness.org/calc/hrzones.php

Sub430

osnola ivax wrote: »

Really struggling with motivation and diet at the moment, last fortnight has been bad. I'm the greatest proctrastonator of all time."I'll change my ways tomorrow, or I'll wait til next Monday (which is where my mind is at now). Anyways, I'm on stag do the weekend after next so I'm gonna start my 18 week programme on Monday (so I still get all long runs in), gonna try to get out for runs sat and sun this week aswell, just make myself go.

I'm sure it'll be better once the programme starts proper, maybe I should invest in the anita bean book mentioned in the main forum

stream of consciousness end...

My diet is fine thankfully, wasn't so good until the girlfriend (now wife) moved in though - I could still munch my way through a few bars of chocolate in one sitting though but once you run it off sure isn't it grand?! I'm reading the Anita Bean book to improve my diet and just to educate myself on the nutritional aspects of running.

Procrastination is almost as nice as chocolate but having a programme helps me, once you know exactly when and for how long you have to run it's easy enough to vary your week so it doesn't clash with other events. I was in London on an all dayer yesterday but thankfully today was a short LSR, feel a lot better after it even though I tried to get out of it as it started to rain heavily but then the guilt set in so off I went.

Slane next weekend, that's gonna be hard to recover from so I will do my long run on the Friday instead of Sat or Sun (though a lot of calories could be burned at Prodigy;)).

Today : LSR : 3m : 28m44 : HR 139/154 : Avg 151

osnola ibax

Ah yeah gonna get back into it today big time, have a 3 miler planned for lunch and I'm just gonna run every day until I get tired and then take a rest day. When I say run every day I mean easy 20 min jobs on the rest days / x training days in programme.

Think I am heading to slane on sat aswell, waiting on mate to get back to me about spare ticket

Sub430

osnola ivax wrote: »

Think I am heading to slane on sat aswell, waiting on mate to get back to me about spare ticket

Sweet, I'll be the one doing star jumps in the corner.

Sub430

3m this morning, tough, think I went too quickly around the middle.

1st mile tried to keep HR around 155, 2nd mile around 165 and 3rd mile around 175.

Average HR 162. Max 183. 22m25s.

My Garmin should arrive next weekend so watch my 3 miles become 2.5m:eek:

osnola ibax

Jaysus that's fast sub430, it looks like you r improving your times big time, hope to do same now I'm trying to be more consistent, big R has ruled slane out aswell so hope to get decent long run in on Sunday, maybe an 8 miler, will b the longest run I'll have done since half marathon training, was also think of doing an interval session on track on Saturday, I was wondering if amadeus would have any opinion on doing speed session day b4 lsr, it's just that sat is best day to get to track.

Anyway, I ran 5.7 this morn, nearly 51 mins, just under 9 min miles, I was happy cause I took it easy, had to my legs weren't awake yet, I think hr and beathing was good too until I met some nice hills and found them really tough this morn. Would u believe I haven't put on my hrm since getting garmin 405. I want to get on the road quickly cause of limited time, opportunity so I just put on my old stop watch. Can't b waiting for sattelites etc.

Sub430

5.7m at consistent nice minute pace is good running too. That's about where I am on my longer runs. Keeping that up for 26.2 miles could be a different story.

osnola ivax wrote: »

Would u believe I haven't put on my hrm since getting garmin 405. I want to get on the road quickly cause of limited time, opportunity so I just put on my old stop watch. Can't b waiting for sattelites etc.

I don't know if you saw but on another post I read that if you leave the watch on the window then change into your shoes etc, by the time you come back it will have found the satellite and off you pop..