DCM Novices / Sub 4:30 Mentored thread

Sub430

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Have had an awful week here, because of trying to sort out things for my final year project presentation I've only been out twice since last weekend. Blargle. Back on track next week!

At least you've been out twice RK, better than once or not at all. The real training doesn't start until end of June so plenty of time for us all to get in shape.

osnola ibax

Rainbow, u did well to get out at all, for me whenever I had course work or exams I didn't have the mind space for anything else, hope final project goes well for u

osnola ibax

Sub430 wrote: »

To be fair I was gonna skip the run but it was either that or watch Man U lift the Premier League trophy (again).:mad: I chose running.:)

I hear ya on that score, here's your brother, hope it was a good run

osnola ibax

Total miles this week 20.1, plan for next week :-
Mon: 5 miles approx
Tue: 5 miles approx
Fri: 5 miles
Sat: yasso 800s
Sun: 8 mile slow
Total mileage - 30

Gonna start upping the training for next five weeks to get in shape for real thing and try to watch diet aswell

Triangle

Did 22 Miles last week (mixture of short runs and one long run yesterday)
Didn't have such a great time on the long run though - got drenched and had some knackers throw something at me while they did a drive by :mad:

Plan for this week is

Tuesday 3 mile
Thurs 4 Mile
Sat 4 Mile
Sun 9 Mile

And fit Yasso's on Wednesday if it's not raining.

Oryx, How did the classic go?

--amadeus--

At this stage any running is good running because as has been said the real work won't be starting for a couple more weeks...

Sub430 (another anti-Utd person, good to see!) I saw your question on HR but I wanted to answer it properly and I've been a bit busy, so here goes...

HR training is something of a black art. Done correctly there is absolutely no doubt that it is the most effective way of training. However it is very, very hard for an amateur to do correctly, at least without full lab support. Running everything at a steady pace is fine for now but you're right this will be changing once we get into proper training.

I'm far from an expert on HR training but a RHR of 57 and a max of 200 gives you an AHR (available heart range or Heart Rate Reserve) of 143. That means your heart can gain up to 143 "extra" beats to work before it maxes out.

Running at 161 means that you have added 104 beats. 104 / 143 means that you were running at around 73% of your max (you had added 73% of teh beats that you had available to add). That's pretty much ideal for standard runs. Check out this link to calculate your zones by percentage and beats and for a full explanation of each.

One word of warning - working to HR zones is great but you need to ensure that they are current and this means frequent retesting of max and resting rates. Out of curiosity how did you determine your max by the way?

Sub430

To get my max I found a steep hill about 80m in length and sprinted up it and walked down it about 6 times (or until almost getting sick with the effort).

You say to recalculate min and max heart levels regularly, I thought that your max is contant but your min can change?

Thanks for the link and explanation, keeping it steady seems to be the way forward.

Oryx

Triangle wrote: »

Oryx, How did the classic go?

It was a fast race, lots of very good runners there. Did 1.17.49, and dont think I couldve done much more than that. A few hills around 8 miles were killer. But have another 10mile in July, part of the marathon series, so am going to aim for a faster time there.

Thanks for asking.:D

Sub430

Great time Oryx, well done.
McMillan has you doing the marathon in 3:37:57 - hope your dust tastes nice.

--amadeus--

Sub430 wrote: »

You say to recalculate min and max heart levels regularly, I thought that your max is contant but your min can change?

Your max Hr will change over time but nowhere near as frequently or as much as your RHR. Off the top of my head I can't remember how much but it's something like 1 - 3 beats per year, certainly not so much that you would need to retest more than once per training cycle (or even once per year). RHR though you should probably check once a month.

That said there is some evidence that training affects your maxHR:

While it is known that aerobic training decreases submaximal HR (HRsubmax) at a given absolute exercise workload, the general consensus is that maximum HR (HRmax) is relatively unaltered regardless of training status in a given population. It has not been seriously postulated as to whether HRmax can change modestly with aerobic training/detraining. Despite several sources stating that HRmax is unaltered with training, several studies report that HRmax is reduced following regular aerobic exercise by sedentary adults and endurance athletes, and can increase upon cessation of aerobic exercise. Furthermore, evidence suggests that tapering/detraining can increase HRmax. Therefore, it is plausible that some of the same mechanisms that affect both resting and HRsubmax may also play a role in altered HRmax. Some of the proposed mechanisms for changes in HRmax that may occur with aerobic training include autonomic (extrinsic) factors such as plasma volume expansion and(enhanced baroreflex function, while some nonautonomic (intrinsic) factors are alteration of the electrophysiology of the sinoatrial (SA) node and decreased beta-adrenergic receptor number and density. There is a high correlation between changes in both maximal oxygen uptake (VO2 max) and HRmax that occurs with training, tapering and detraining (r= -0.76: p < 0.0001; n = 314), which indicates that as VO2max improves with training, HRmax tends to decrease, and when detraining ensues, HRmax tends to increase. The overall effect of aerobic training and detraining on HRmax is moderate: effect sizes based on several studies were calculated to be -0.48 and +0.54, respectively. Therefore, analysis reveals that HRmax can be altered by 3 to 7% with aerobic training/detraining. However, because of a lack of research in the area of training on HRmax, the reader should remain speculative and allow for cautious interpretation until further, more thorough investigations are carried out as to the confirmation of mechanisms involved. Despite the limitations of using HR and HRmax as a guide to training intensity, the practical implications of monitoring changing HRmax are: (i) prescribed training intensities may be more precisely monitored; and (ii) prevention of overtraining may possibly be enhanced. As such, it may be sensible to monitor HRmax directly in athletes throughout the training year, perhaps at every macrocycle (3 to 6 weeks).

(link, my bolding for emphasis)

--amadeus--

Oryx wrote: »

It was a fast race, lots of very good runners there. Did 1.17.49, and dont think I couldve done much more than that. A few hills around 8 miles were killer. But have another 10mile in July, part of the marathon series, so am going to aim for a faster time there.

Thanks for asking.:D

Cracking time Oryx, well done. You might be better suited to Peckhams group than ours as there is no reason you shouldn't be aiming at a sub 4 (not that we don't want you to stay here with us! )

osnola ibax

Bloody hell oryx, that's fantastic, bit jealous actually, if I could get to those paces in a 5 mile run, I'd be ecstatic, well done

Triangle

That's a great time - especially with hills.

Whats the race in July you're doing? I might want to try it and get used to tasting dust on a run :eek:

Oryx

Triangle wrote: »

That's a great time - especially with hills.

Whats the race in July you're doing? I might want to try it and get used to tasting dust on a run :eek:

Its the series of races organised as a run up to the marathon. See here.

Cheers for the support amadeus, if noone minds Ill stay put here. My training is a bit muddled up right now, doing other stuff as well, cos of Tough Guy in July, and Ive not even signed up for the marathon yet in case I break an ankle or something on that event. I dont want to aim for a sub four and burn out, Id rather go easier and do it well.

McConkey

I'm back...after a very bad week, haven't run since last Monday due to weather, work stuff and also general laziness. However, got another injection of B12 yesterday so I'm powered up for another while

I'm trying to persuade myself to head out for my Yassos now...once I've digested my food. Just reminding myself what I'm actually supposed to be doing.

Anyhow, went to sign up for Dublin a couple of weeks ago and saw that there are different timing starts and just wanted to know if everyone here has put themselves into the 4.15+ pen for starting? I'm assuming we all need to be in the same ball park area anyway for convenience...

So how's everyone else getting on....I need help with motivation Where's Rainbow K with her Bishop Brennan picture when you need it? Fair play on the training Oryx and Osnola seems you guys are well ahead of the posse...sub4.30 and Triangle you are putting my times to shame

Munster_Gal

Well I'd say I'm well behind EVERYONE!!! For one... I take run breaks in my walking

BUT ... That's all going to change now that I have my treadmill. Managed 2.7 miles in 30 mins - and I managed to jog for about half of it.... but it damned well nearly killed me.

6 pages later.......

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!) No - unless you count walking in the Women's Mini Marathons in Limerick (which is only 7k) completed in 62 mins

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? God yes. :( Working on it though

How much training do you currently do? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant I haven't been doing much but plan on 3/4 session minimum per week going forward. No cross training planned for the moment (well not until I can afford an Ergo...)

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and reaistic finishing time? Finishing the Marathon would be a good start. I suppose dream finishing time - considering I'm taking part in this.... Sub 430 - Realistic I would say is going to be somewhere between 5 and 6 hours.:rolleyes:

How many days a week can you train? As many as I need to

Why are you running this marathon? The shiny medal at the end - and cause Amadeus put the idea in my head last October .... Damned You :P

osnola ibax

welcome aboard munster gal

my weekly plan has gone to pot, ruddy back is giving me jip, don't know if its from running, lifting / changing the baba, or some kind of gammy chair in work, whatever the hell haven't been able to run last two days.

Its so frustrating :mad:, hopefully it will feel ok again tomorrow or defo by Thursday.

rainbow kirby

McConkey wrote: »

I
So how's everyone else getting on....I need help with motivation Where's Rainbow K with her Bishop Brennan picture when you need it?

ohai

McConkey

So the yasoos didn't quite go according to plan....a mixture of having blood taken yesterday, not eating early enough, heat and having to head to work....so I will head out in the evening when I've more time next time

Anyway, as with the normal runs for me it started off ok but then was sliding back in the times so advice would be appreciated here.
Anyway only managed four so it wasn't a great session but hopefully it'll improve from here.

So from previous posts I stuck to then inside lane of the track and did the following splits
1)4.02
2)4.04
3)4.07
4)4.10
walked a lap of the track for each break between each two laps.
Anyway are we supposed to be going flat out? I think I'll have to build up to the full 10, in the heat I found it tough going. Will give them a bash again soon-it is much harder than getting out for a regular run though.

McConkey

Cheers Rainbow....I needed that.:pac::D Hope alls going well with the project stuff etc.

Got out but it went badly....more effort next time I promise:o

Arcee

Hey folks, been a while since I checked in!

Munster_gal, I'm taking run breaks in my walks too I stick to a 2.5 mile circuit about 3-4 times a week usually. I've gone from running 2 or 3 mins of it to running 10 or 12 now. It's only a small improvement but as things move along I'm realising I need to go slowly with this and am now realistically just aiming to complete the 5 and 10 mile races as part of the DCM race series during the summer.

As for the main event, well, I'm not sure if I'm up to it this year but will keep going until the formal program begins in June and will see if I'm at a level where I can keep up with the rest of ye then!!

I'm taking it slowly as over the last few days I'm starting to get small pains in my shins and am going to take a break for a while in case they get worse. I try to run on the grass mostly but sometimes have to move to concrete. I've never had any shin problems before, even when I was running a lot a few years ago, so I'm hoping this is temporary.

The pilates is in full swing, so that will help with strengthening the leg, back and core muscles a bit too.

That's my story for now anyway - although I'm taking my time building up any sort of pace, I'm enjoying hearing about everyone elses speedy times!

goofygirl

* Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Yup. PBs are as follows: 5 miles Dockland Run May 2008 - 43 mins. 10km Women's Mini-Marathon June 2008 - 55 mins 6 secs. Auckland Half Marathon November 2008 - 2 hrs 2 mins


* Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training?
Nope

* How much training do you currently do? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant

Just finished back-to-back ski-seasons in New Zealand and then Canada when I was skiing everyday, going to gym/swimming/going for runs sporadically. Ran the Montreal Half Marathon about a month ago in 2hrs 3 mins and now am prob running four days out of seven and also swimming. Over summer will be doing hiking and mountain-biking as well. (Still living in Canada, coming home for DCM)

* What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time?

Realistic finishing time - somewhere under 4 hours 30. Dream time - under 4hrs 15. Don't think sub 4hr is going to happen, I like baking and eating cake too much for that.
* How many days a week can you train?
I'm pretty good for time, so as many as I like

* Why are you running this marathon?
I've run three half marathons in past year and want to do a full one. Want to specifically do DCM because am now an emigrant and want to do it in my home town to make it extra special.

Also like Sir Edmund Hillary said about Everest "because it's there"

goofygirl

sorry how rude of me. i forgot to say hello and that the previous post is my introductory one.

I'm living in Calgary now and my bog-standard run is a 7 mile circuit along the river trail. I think I'm doing about 10 minute mile pace but to be honest I don't even run with a watch because I like the least amount of time pressure possible.

I've done bit of racing I suppose - two 5 milers, two 10kms, three Half Marathons - not to mention two ski-seasons over the past year and a half and am veh veh excited about DCM.

Mr Marenghi

im back !

Have missed 2wks of running due to strange stitch like pain in my side. Will hopefully get out towards the end of this week. Went to Dr and got checked out and apparently its just a muscular thing but gotta rest.

How bad is it to be off 2wks ? Do you lose much fitness ?

Munster_Gal

first proper session for my pre "marathon training" training - 30 mins exercise of 5mins walk 5mins jog. feel great

Oryx

Did the yazzo 800s today, mainly cos I couldnt get out for a run. I did cheat and use the treadmill, 1.5 incline. Times were:

1. 4.01
2. 3.58
3. 3.58
4. 4.00
5. 3.57
6. 3.58
7. 3.58
8. 3.57
9. 3.58
10. 3.57

Feels like a bit of a cheat cos the tm does the pacing for you. And I hate the thing, it feels harder than getting out and running. But tis done now.:)

osnola ibax

So fed up, back is killing me and haven't been for run since last Sunday, totally fallen of the wagon this week, took delivery of 405cx yesterday and can't even try it out, sorry to wreak misery all over this thread, at least it's the weekend woohoo, I'll drink my sorrows away, that always works......., next week I am Tee total OI, with only one focus - dcm '09, me thinks a visit to the gp may be necessary first though.

Does anyone have experience of ongoing little niggly injuries and then as a result, difficulty staying focused, in terms of diet, x trainig etc. It seems to me that if I'm not running now, everything else seems to go to pot aswell

Sub430

Hi OI,

Just ordered a 405cx from ebay myself so looking forward to playing with that one. There are some nice trails near me where mapmyrun cannot help.

As for niggles, I used to use the slightest niggle as an excuse not to train, now I try and do something, anything to keep me from returning to the gogglebox. Can you cycle, swim or even walk? Just sticking to 30 minutes doing something made me feel better and keeps the discipline up.

I've an exam in the morning (so tonight could be a late one) then the Adamstown 8k on Sunday to blow the study cobwebs away.

Oryx

Hiya OI, hope your back gets better soon.

With regard to aches and pains, I always have something aching. I mentioned it to a friend who said 'welcome to running'.

Munster_Gal

Hey OI - Hope you feel better soon

*gives OI a big hug*