N8/N25/N40 - Dunkettle Interchange [under construction]

hans aus dtschl

The pedestrian/cycle route through the Dunkettle Interchange is nearing completion now.
I passed through most of the roundabouts earlier and it looks like they've opted for pedestrian "dash and hope" crossings throughout (a dipped kerb with tactile pavement and no road signage).

Motor priority at every crossing.

It won't be a viable route by bike, and it'll be lethal for anyone with visual impairments, in its current format.

The Little Island/Dunkettle sustainable transport "bermuda triangle" is expanding!

jackrussel

Anyone else have any issues with the cameras not loading in the Dunkettle/SRR traffic app?

The N8 to M8 slip road can’t be too far away from what I seen passing by there at the weekend.

Truckermal

jackrussel wrote: »

Anyone else have any issues with the cameras not loading in the Dunkettle/SRR traffic app?

The N8 to M8 slip road can’t be too far away from what I seen passing by there at the weekend.

Yep stuck on some other day it was sunny!

Treehelpplease

the app is down and the traffic lights i believe

Where will the new slip connect to the M8? I passedit over the weekend and it seems to run under the M8 and I didn't see anywhere where it could tie in

jackrussel

Treehelpplease wrote: »

the app is down and the traffic lights i believe

Where will the new slip connect to the M8? I passedit over the weekend and it seems to run under the M8 and I didn't see anywhere where it could tie in

There’s timber fencing erected at present where it’ll join, after the bridge over the train line but before the bridge over the L2998 - opposite the gaelscoil. That’s, to me, where it looks to be joining anyway

hans aus dtschl

Treehelpplease wrote: »

the app is down and the traffic lights i believe

Where will the new slip connect to the M8? I passedit over the weekend and it seems to run under the M8 and I didn't see anywhere where it could tie in

Two slip roads. One gets a new tunnel/bridge and goes under the M8, along the path of the legacy route (the Old Youghal Road) to Glounthaune. An East-West routing. As an aside, it's absolutely galling that they couldn't use this routing for pedestrians/cyclists.

The other slip road joins the M8 before the bridge over the L2998, exactly as described by previous poster jackrussel.

hans aus dtschl

I've been through this scheme again over the last few days.
The new "greenway" under construction now has blue "Shared Space" signs showing symbols for cars, pedestrians and bicycles.

I would advise intending pedestrians and cyclists to avoid any of the new "greenway" infrastructure in this area, on safety grounds. The illegibility and lack of priority marking at every junction creates many conflict points.

SeanW

As of now, what exactly has been built at the Dunkettle junction?

I tend to agree with the comments above about trying to shoehorn a "shared space" greenway into this. Ideally, longer distance motorised traffic should be segregated from non-motorised traffic, especially in something that's a de-facto motorway junction.

hans aus dtschl

There will be another mailout later today I'd say but in general:

North West of the interchange:
The Dunkettle Roundabout signalisation is mostly complete by the looks of it.
New footpath over Glashaboy River currently being built.
New segregated route from Glashaboy river to L2998 mostly complete but not open.
New slip road from Glashaboy river to M8 substantially complete.
New slip road from Glashaboy River to Glounthaune has a lot of ground works done, up to where it will cross under the M8.

North East of the interchange:
New slip road from Glashaboy River to Glounthaune has a lot of ground works done, from the M8 over to a new roundabout, where it will join the L2998. The roundabout is complete and open.
The new pedestrian bridge over the railway line directly beside Bury's Bridge is almost complete but not yet open.
Road signage in place throughout this area.
Preparatory ground works in preparation for the M8-N25E slip road are mostly complete. This slip can't be done until the "Ibis" slip is closed, I would guess. The "Ibis" slip can't be closed until there's a new bridge over the N25 to Little Island (Pfizer). This is a long way off and they appear to have understandably halted the groundworks as a result.

South West of the Interchange:
A new protective barrier has been installed beside the railway bridge only.
This prevents easy use of this section as a greenway, unfortunately.
No other works.

South East of the interchange:
A lot of preparatory groundworks are complete.
The Tunnel Management Building roundabout is most of the way complete.

hans aus dtschl

SeanW wrote: »

As of now, what exactly has been built at the Dunkettle junction?

I tend to agree with the comments above about trying to shoehorn a "shared space" greenway into this. Ideally, longer distance motorised traffic should be segregated from non-motorised traffic, especially in something that's a de-facto motorway junction.

Just to clarify, the "shared space" isn't on new-build interchange infrastructure, it's on legacy infrastructure on/near the L2998, north-west of the interchange.

The Interchange upgrade works will likely ban vulnerable users from the N25 and Dunkettle Interchange. Probably a good decision, IMO. The problem is that the alternative routes being provided for vulnerable road users are long circuitous detours with multiple road crossings, roundabouts gradients, shared spaces etc. All the things we know that vulnerable users really don't want.

The upgrade was an opportunity to rectify lots of legacy access issues in the area but the design they've chosen sees vulnerable user access in the area taking a backwards step if anything. It's surprising to see such...outdated....design ideas in a new project.

Pete_Cavan

I don't know any details on the Dunkettle project and have no real local knowledge but from reading here posters have suggested that there was a better solution for pedestrians/cyclists available but it has been ignored (possibly parallel to the rail line). I assume that changing planning permission means that the scheme as currently designed will be built as changing it will only delay things. Will it still be possible to provide a better route for pedestrians/cyclists later or will the works now prevent that alternative?

hans aus dtschl

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I don't know any details on the Dunkettle project and have no real local knowledge but from reading here posters have suggested that there was a better solution for pedestrians/cyclists available but it has been ignored (possibly parallel to the rail line). I assume that changing planning permission means that the scheme as currently designed will be built as changing it will only delay things. Will it still be possible to provide a better route for pedestrians/cyclists later or will the works now prevent that alternative?

In short, the works now will prevent that better alternative.
There's a possibility of doing it right, now, but as the works progress it will become increasingly difficult. Even with my "sustainable infra first" hat on, I don't think I'd suggest a retrofit once this scheme's complete. The costs would be enormous.

The optimal solution for vulnerable users would be - as you guessed - parallel to the rail line, Lotamore to Dunkettle/Kilcookishal. That's the legacy (19th century?) road alignment. It's flat and direct.

The upgrade project builds a number of new structures (over the railway and under the M8 for instance). There will be significant disruption to achieve this. During the Interchange works, it will be possible to include structures for pedestrians/cyclists. It would require one new pedestrian underpass of a slip road, and a wider-than-current spec for the new bridge under the M8.

The design team did originally pursue this route, having identified it as the most desirable. They sent pedestrians and cyclists across the slip ramp, and continuing on directly beside the railway. This was fine other than crossing the surface of the motorway slip ramp. Just a detail. So the NTA told them to re-do it.

Their proposed and accepted resolution was a lengthy and relatively complex diversion North of the entire interchange area and onto legacy roads north of the project. It does link Lotamore to Dunkettle, but has a pretty lengthy diversion, shared surfaces, many junctions, etc. It's a fairly unattractive route. Think "Limerick to Dublin via Galway".

The Council are also investigating a new more desirable route South of the interchange, connecting Little Island with Lotamore. This would be their long-term East-to-West solution. Unfortunately, this does nothing for the Lotamore to Dunkettle/Kilcoolishal users. It connects Little Island to Tivoli quite nicely, though. A desirable route, but for a different group of users.

Kevtherev1

Any update here on when the tender will be awarded and construction begin on Dunkettle. Govt and Cork County Council still dragging their feet on this project.

Might it be budget time now (October 2020) before this actually starts. This being the next big road project to reach construction.

Chris_5339762

This is the latest from the website. Bear in mind the prep works are still ongoing, and would have had to be done as part of the main contract anyway.

Tenders for the main construction works at Dunkettle were received in late June 2020 and these are currently under review. We still anticipate Award of this construction Contract before the end of 2020. We then anticipate that sectional openings of the works will take place from 2022 onwards with a maximum time period of 42 months allowed for construction.
Regular updates are issued in relation to progress on the Dunkettle Interchange Upgrade Scheme and other National Primary Road Schemea in the general Cork Metropolitan area. These updates will continue to be issued as we progress through the advance works and main construction phases.

https://www.dunkettle.ie/FAQs

Chris_5339762

Bit of a soundbite in the Echo and the other Cork papers. Mr McGrath was down to be seen in public, but at least he passed on some information.

“On completion, the Dunkettle interchange scheme will have a hugely positive impact on traffic flow at this critical artery. The capacity of the junction will be greatly improved, reducing congestion and cutting journey times to and from the city. This will be a great boost to the economy of the region.

“I am informed that the procurement procedure for the awarding of the main construction contract is at a very advanced stage and it is anticipated the contract will be awarded shortly with work to commence very soon after. Advance works have been ongoing on site for some time including the development of a new east- west cycleway.”

Its nothing we didn't know already but at least things are still inching glacially forward.

https://www.thecork.ie/2020/09/07/new-cork-roads-progress-on-dunkettle-interchange/

marno21

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Bit of a soundbite in the Echo and the other Cork papers. Mr McGrath was down to be seen in public, but at least he passed on some information.



Its nothing we didn't know already but at least things are still inching glacially forward.

https://www.thecork.ie/2020/09/07/new-cork-roads-progress-on-dunkettle-interchange/

He posted this on LinkedIn a few days ago.

It sounds as though this will be going for Cabinet approval shortly and contract award then. Likely around the time of the budget.

Treehelpplease

https://twitter.com/dunkettleint/status/1303316797899313154?s=20

Sorry if this was posted already, new drone video which makes it much easier to follow. Where exactly does the pedestrian route lead to? and how will cars merge onto the m8? just a normal merging lane or traffic lights?

marno21

Treehelpplease wrote: »

https://twitter.com/dunkettleint/status/1303316797899313154?s=20

Sorry if this was posted already, new drone video which makes it much easier to follow. Where exactly does the pedestrian route lead to? and how will cars merge onto the m8? just a normal merging lane or traffic lights?

They will merge onto the L2998 there on the Cork side of the M8, on the Glanmire side of the old Ibis now the Gaelscoil.

The N8 -> M8 will be a merge, no traffic lights.

Treehelpplease

any idea what speed the new road will be?

marno21

Treehelpplease wrote: »

any idea what speed the new road will be?

60km/h signs erected on the N8 -> M8 slip over the weekend/last week.

AugustusMinimus

marno21 wrote: »

60km/h signs erected on the N8 -> M8 slip over the weekend/last week.

Suspect the 60k limit will be continued up the M8 until after the slip.

Truckermal

Slightly OT but still relevant but why have they stopped cutting the Grass on the approach from Dublin? It looks like your entering Beirut as opposed to a modern European city!

AAAAAAAAA

Not really sure on how much traffic that cycle path is really going to see considering it feeds straight into the Dunkettle Roundabout on one end, with no cyclepaths or hard shoulders along the N8 or R639 for a cyclist to use.

Chris_5339762

marno21 wrote: »

60km/h signs erected on the N8 -> M8 slip over the weekend/last week.

Not surprised. And the merge of the slip into the M8 LOOKS really tight... because it is at the moment. The merge will be temporary and will require some form of traffic management apparently (quite what, who knows). According to the website it'll stay closed until the main contract works start up, which could be a few months(?) yet once all is said and done, even with contract signing hopefully soon.


The reason for the "tightness" is that both carriageways of the M8 will be shifted east a little bit to allow for the whole interchange to work, so the merge will be much better at the end of the day.

AugustusMinimus

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Not surprised. And the merge of the slip into the M8 LOOKS really tight... because it is at the moment. The merge will be temporary and will require some form of traffic management apparently (quite what, who knows). According to the website it'll stay closed until the main contract works start up, which could be a few months(?) yet once all is said and done, even with contract signing hopefully soon.


The reason for the "tightness" is that both carriageways of the M8 will be shifted east a little bit to allow for the whole interchange to work, so the merge will be much better at the end of the day.

Potential ramp traffic lights to work with those on the roundabout so. The ramp will have green a bit after N8 west slip onto the roundabout also gets green.

marno21

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Not surprised. And the merge of the slip into the M8 LOOKS really tight... because it is at the moment. The merge will be temporary and will require some form of traffic management apparently (quite what, who knows). According to the website it'll stay closed until the main contract works start up, which could be a few months(?) yet once all is said and done, even with contract signing hopefully soon.


The reason for the "tightness" is that both carriageways of the M8 will be shifted east a little bit to allow for the whole interchange to work, so the merge will be much better at the end of the day.

This makes a whole pile of sense. The hard shoulders on the M7 had to be strengthened to allow for them to be used as general traffic lanes for the M7 widening project so it occured to me that a similar measure would have to be undertaken here in order to facilitate an opening of the N8E -> M8N slip.

It does indeed look horrendously tight and there is no scope to widen the M8 either north of there due to the road bridge.

AugustusMinimus

marno21 wrote: »

This makes a whole pile of sense. The hard shoulders on the M7 had to be strengthened to allow for them to be used as general traffic lanes for the M7 widening project so it occured to me that a similar measure would have to be undertaken here in order to facilitate an opening of the N8E -> M8N slip.

It does indeed look horrendously tight and there is no scope to widen the M8 either north of there due to the road bridge.

Well, they could just build more bridge on the west side.

Given they are moving each carriageway more to the east they’ll have to build more bridge to that side.

hans aus dtschl

AAAAAAAAA wrote: »

Not really sure on how much traffic that cycle path is really going to see considering it feeds straight into the Dunkettle Roundabout on one end, with no cyclepaths or hard shoulders along the N8 or R639 for a cyclist to use.

A reasonable question/statement but you might be surprised at the cycle traffic levels. Per annum, it's around 85% leisure, around 1500 people, around 5,000 trips. Obviously a lot less than motorised transport, but they do exist. Can't give you the source for the data I'm afraid.

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Well, they could just build more bridge on the west side.
Given they are moving each carriageway more to the east they’ll have to build more bridge to that side.

More bridge width makes perfect sense to me.
I suspect that there will need to be a few smaller spends in a few years to resolve some issues like this one.

Another one that comes to mind is routing the Dublin-Tivoli traffic via the new Little Island West dumbell interchange. I just don't see that working at all.

AugustusMinimus

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

A reasonable question/statement but you might be surprised at the cycle traffic levels. Per annum, it's around 85% leisure, around 1500 people, around 5,000 trips. Obviously a lot less than motorised transport, but they do exist. Can't give you the source for the data I'm afraid.


More bridge width makes perfect sense to me.
I suspect that there will need to be a few smaller spends in a few years to resolve some issues like this one.

Another one that comes to mind is routing the Dublin-Tivoli traffic via the new Little Island West dumbell interchange. I just don't see that working at all.

It’s the only one of 16 primary movements which isn’t freeflow. I don’t see an issue even under the heaviest of traffic situations.

hans aus dtschl

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

It’s the only one of 16 primary movements which isn’t freeflow. I don’t see an issue even under the heaviest of traffic situations.

That makes sense. The problem is that this traffic is currently rat-running and will continue to do so to avoid the future upgraded interchange. The spend might not occur at the interchange itself, maybe instead there will be traffic calming measures on the R639.
But they'll need to do something, because I know of lots of "Fermoy" origin users who are currently opting to rat-run and that won't change.