N8/N25/N40 - Dunkettle Interchange [under construction]

Chris_5339762

Was digging through old photos today and found this old one of the tunnel under construction.

hans aus dtschl

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Was digging through old photos today and found this old one of the tunnel under construction.

I remember those days!
But I don't remember: did it begin with two lanes out of the tunnel Northbound?
Thanks for the pic.

Chris_5339762

I THINK it was two coming out of the tunnel that immediately widened to three for that short stretch..... then got widened a few years later to the current setup.

Chris_5339762

Before you ask, no there is no update about the tender for the main construction.

With that out of the way, the N40 VMS system and the preparatory works for Dunkettle are getting back underway. Two diggers have appeared and there was a works van reversing there today. Baby steps.

marno21

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/dunkettle-interchange-upgrade-due-to-begin-in-autumn-1004451.html

Bit of an update but nothing really new in there.

Driving east along the N8/N25 out of town you'd be forgiven for thinking the scheme was already underway.

Leonard Hofstadter

There's no danger that the Greens could stop this, is there? (We'll just completely gloss over the fact that having loads of cars stopped there every day without fail is worse for the planet than having free-flowing traffic.)

marno21

I'd imagine someone in DTTAS will sit them down and remind them that this is part of the TEN-T Core network and has to be done by 2030. Same as the M28, Adare-Foynes scheme.

There's rakes of land in Cork City that can be redeveloped into prime sustainable city centre developments when this + M28 are done.

Chris_5339762

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

There's no danger that the Greens could stop this, is there? (We'll just completely gloss over the fact that having loads of cars stopped there every day without fail is worse for the planet than having free-flowing traffic.)

Theres an ever present danger that the Greens will utterly gut and decimate the roads plans as FF and FG both desperately need a Government and will agree to pretty much anything at the moment.


That said, I'd say Dunkettle is still fairly likely to go ahead as it is ready to go once the tenders come through in September (I think). Can't really argue against it, well, the Greens could. They'd argue against an upgrade of two D3 motorways connected by one mile of single carriageway through a dump.

spacetweek

Leonard Hofstadter wrote: »

There's no danger that the Greens could stop this, is there? (We'll just completely gloss over the fact that having loads of cars stopped there every day without fail is worse for the planet than having free-flowing traffic.)

False logic - what if they were electric? What if large-scale alternative transport options were available?

Chris_5339762

Sadly for the latter we would need a lot of radical thinking. CMATS did not provide really anything at all of interest for East Cork. If they wanted to provide extra "capacity" to Dunkettle other than the increase they planned in the rail frequency, they should have a spur of the Cork-Luas to Little Island and have a big P&R or interchange there.

But sadly, CMATS said "do nothing apart from double the frequency of the railway" for anywhere east of Dunkettle. And whilst that would be a good thing, it really wouldn't help THAT much.

I live on Cobh island and it is 27 minutes to drive to work at the moment in Wilton. It takes 25 for the train from Cobh to Cork, not to mention the time to get to the station (5 - 10 minutes), and the time to get from Cork to Wilton (God knows on the bus). Its not an easy problem to solve, but I'd happily take the commute to say, 40 minutes, 45 maybe on public transport.

Frostybrew

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Sadly for the latter we would need a lot of radical thinking. CMATS did not provide really anything at all of interest for East Cork. If they wanted to provide extra "capacity" to Dunkettle other than the increase they planned in the rail frequency, they should have a spur of the Cork-Luas to Little Island and have a big P&R or interchange there.

But sadly, CMATS said "do nothing apart from double the frequency of the railway" for anywhere east of Dunkettle. And whilst that would be a good thing, it really wouldn't help THAT much.

I live on Cobh island and it is 27 minutes to drive to work at the moment in Wilton. It takes 25 for the train from Cobh to Cork, not to mention the time to get to the station (5 - 10 minutes), and the time to get from Cork to Wilton (God knows on the bus). Its not an easy problem to solve, but I'd happily take the commute to say, 40 minutes, 45 maybe on public transport.

With CMATS East Cork is getting a DART style upgrade. Double tracking to Midleton and electrification of the line which will allow for faster trains and a much higher frequency, potentially every 10 mins for Cobh and Midleton and every 5 from Glounthaune to Kent. As there's no on street running this is superior to a Luas service. Extra stations also.

Not till 2040 though which is the major downside.

Markcheese

Frostybrew wrote: »

With CMATS East Cork is getting a DART style upgrade. Double tracking to Midleton and electrification of the line which will allow for faster trains and a much higher frequency, potentially every 10 mins for Cobh and Midleton and every 5 from Glounthaune to Kent. As there's no on street running this is superior to a Luas service. Extra stations also.

Not till 2040 though which is the major downside.

Yup a dart style train to East cork (CART ?? ) would be great ,(although extra stations on the current service now would be better )
But it's not really great for anyone other than east cork , if the cork tram were to go ahead .. and go ballincolig / midleton with a couple of stops in Tivoli (the hopefully soon to be redeveloped South docks ) a park and ride stop at dunkettle,( hopefully with easy access to glanmire ) and either stopping in little island , diverting through little island ( and it's industrial estates ) or even continuing on to midleton ( and stopping in carrigtohils industrial estates , )
Then cobh could be through to mallow (and intermediary stop in blackpool/ monard ect ,either as heavy rail or tram ,
None of it's high speed line ,(well maybe to mallow ) lots of new dart style stations are expensive with over bridges ect. and the increased schedule at level crossing could be a pain... ( I'm bias here I always seem to be waiting at the level crossing in midleton )
Wouldn't be down grading so much as increased flexibility..

Frostybrew

Markcheese wrote: »

Yup a dart style train to East cork (CART ?? ) would be great ,(although extra stations on the current service now would be better )
But it's not really great for anyone other than east cork , if the cork tram were to go ahead .. and go ballincolig / midleton with a couple of stops in Tivoli (the hopefully soon to be redeveloped South docks ) a park and ride stop at dunkettle,( hopefully with easy access to glanmire ) and either stopping in little island , diverting through little island ( and it's industrial estates ) or even continuing on to midleton ( and stopping in carrigtohils industrial estates , )
Then cobh could be through to mallow (and intermediary stop in blackpool/ monard ect ,either as heavy rail or tram ,
None of it's high speed line ,(well maybe to mallow ) lots of new dart style stations are expensive with over bridges ect. and the increased schedule at level crossing could be a pain... ( I'm bias here I always seem to be waiting at the level crossing in midleton )
Wouldn't be down grading so much as increased flexibility..

It's due to connect with the Cork Luas at Kent which would in turn make whole areas of the city accessible by either light or heavy rail. Travel time from Cobh to Ballincollig would be well under the hour mark.

Chris_5339762

Frostybrew wrote: »

It's due to connect with the Cork Luas at Kent which would in turn make whole areas of the city accessible by either light or heavy rail. Travel time from Cobh to Ballincollig would be well under the hour mark.

But outside of traffic it can be driven in 30 minutes. Even in morning traffic you can do it in 45-50 and thats before Dunkettle gets done. Now yes, that isn't the complete picture, but in Dublin the DART can beat cars at rush hour fairly handily. Any plans for Cork don't come close. And with more stations on the line (Carrigaloe, Dunkettle) its going to be SLOWER than it is at the moment.



They are planning DART style service (although I firmly believe that won't happen, not with CIE in charge, they're just not interested), but they need a huge increase in P&R capacity which has never really been mentioned or talked about. I don't think CMATs addresses any of that either.


I don't have a magic solution, but I just feel CMATs is sorely lacking for anywhere east of Dunkettle.

Frostybrew

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

But outside of traffic it can be driven in 30 minutes. Even in morning traffic you can do it in 45-50 and thats before Dunkettle gets done. Now yes, that isn't the complete picture, but in Dublin the DART can beat cars at rush hour fairly handily. Any plans for Cork don't come close. And with more stations on the line (Carrigaloe, Dunkettle) its going to be SLOWER than it is at the moment.



They are planning DART style service (although I firmly believe that won't happen, not with CIE in charge, they're just not interested), but they need a huge increase in P&R capacity which has never really been mentioned or talked about. I don't think CMATs addresses any of that either.


I don't have a magic solution, but I just feel CMATs is sorely lacking for anywhere east of Dunkettle.

Commute time by car is only going to increase though. Probably double by 2040. I don't see light rail offering any advantage over heavy rail. If anything it's probably slower.

What would you suggest for east of dunkettle that would be superior to or add to CMATS?

You may be correct about CIE. No real interest in Cork.

Markcheese

Frostybrew wrote: »

It's due to connect with the Cork Luas at Kent which would in turn make whole areas of the city accessible by either light or heavy rail. Travel time from Cobh to Ballincollig would be well under the hour mark.

Would I walk some distance in little island or the new south docks ,to wait for a train to Kent to transfer to a cork luas to get to Washington Street ... Probably not ...

Frostybrew

Markcheese wrote: »

Would I walk some distance in little island or the new south docks ,to wait for a train to Kent to transfer to a cork luas to get to Washington Street ... Probably not ...

If in the south docks you'd hop on a Luas and go straight to Washington street. No transfer needed, if the mock ups in CMATS are to be the future. Going off topic here a bit.

Markcheese

Frostybrew wrote: »

If in the south docks you'd hop on a Luas and go straight to Washington street. No transfer needed, if the mock ups in CMATS are to be the future. Going off topic here a bit.

Sorry y,ou're right, I meant the north docks by Tivoli ,(which their planning on giving one train station )

AugustusMinimus

When is the slip road N8 (East) to M8 (North) due to open?

Chris_5339762

No update from me anyway, but I just wanted to let everyone know that there was a man walking his two dogs around the Dunkettle roundabout this evening just after rush hour.

He had come from the Glounthaune slip and when I went through he was making his way towards the M8 in the verge.

Thats a new one on me.

AugustusMinimus

I see the first piece of new road as part of this scheme has opened. A new roundabout just before the start of the old N25 road.

Cork Trucker

Is a new slip road being built between the Tivoli and Dunkettle roundabouts?

AugustusMinimus

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Is a new slip road being built between the Tivoli and Dunkettle roundabouts?

At the moment their building a slip between Dunkettle roundabout to travel north on the M8. This should be opened before the main scheme does I think.

marno21

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

At the moment their building a slip between Dunkettle roundabout to travel north on the M8. This should be opened before the main scheme does I think.

Surfacing on this N8 outbound to M8 link is to begin shortly. Will be opened well in advance of the main scheme.

AugustusMinimus

marno21 wrote: »

Surfacing on this N8 outbound to M8 link is to begin shortly. Will be opened well in advance of the main scheme.

Any timeframe for opening Marno? I think it’s one of the few pieces which will benefit traffic flow until the full scheme opens?

a/tel

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Any timeframe for opening Marno? I think it’s one of the few pieces which will benefit traffic flow until the full scheme opens?

According to the Dunkettle Update email on 19th June:

"Works are also progressing well on the new N8 to M8 northbound free flow slip lane. Surfacing works on this slip lane will get underway early in July 2020 and the ongoing works in this area will continue until September 2020. Surfacing works on the new cycleway adjoining the free flow slip lane will also get underway over the coming weeks and again this cycleway will reach completion by September 2020 – details to follow in future updates"

Cork Trucker

A cycle lane leading to a motorway? Oh for the love of Christ!!!!!

AugustusMinimus

Cork Trucker wrote: »

A cycle lane leading to a motorway? Oh for the love of Christ!!!!!

Think the cycle lane leads from Dunkettle roundabout to the old N25. A welcome addition if correct.

Pete_Cavan

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Think the cycle lane leads from Dunkettle roundabout to the old N25. A welcome addition if correct.

I remember people raising issues with the proposed cycle lanes for the Dunkettle scheme and how they were suboptimal, has that been addressed since?

Markcheese

The current works at the glanmire roundabout seem to include traffic lights ,
So that'll be fun ..