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SUPER TUESDAY! Budget discussion thread MERGED

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    #242
    sunnyside
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭sunnyside


    Hobbes wrote: »
    Most people with Children are also taxpayers.
    Are they? I'm not so sure if that's true or not.
    Redpunto wrote: »
    it'll be those children who will be paying for your pension so you want to treat them well so they have enough food, shelter and education.

    I didn't mean that I want the children to go hungry:oJust that people should consider if they can afford them or not before having children. Some people put more consideration into the purchase of a new car than the decision to have children.


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    #243
    handsomecake
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,783 ✭✭✭handsomecake


    i drive a 2litre petrol car.i am therefore a little relieved.


    can anyone explain why he upped diesel and didnt up petrol.
    i dont understand the rationale??im surely missing something.

    whats the difference between someone driving a golf gti and a golf tdi.why should one pay more??


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    #244
    shamblertine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 888 ✭✭✭shamblertine


    Such a bottle job in relation to welfare. Its the reason why Ireland is such a laughing stock at the minute. Our dole is more than 4 TIMES higher than that which you would get in the UK. They also don't have any rent assistence either. Also it'll mean more low paid people will decide to quit their jobs and go on the dole, and foreign nationals will continue to fly in for the day to pick up dole.


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    #245
    WillieDH
    Closed Accounts Posts: 425 ✭✭WillieDH


    Its time for revolution


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    #246
    Jip
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,418 ✭✭✭Jip


    handsomecake wrote: »
    i drive a 2litre petrol car.i am therefore a little relieved.


    can anyone explain why he upped diesel and didnt up petrol.
    i dont understand the rationale??im surely missing something.

    whats the difference between someone driving a golf gti and a golf tdi.why should one pay more??

    Because it will bring the price up to the point where people will head up north for their petrol. At the moment there's not much of a difference in petrol prices but there's enough space to play around with diesel.


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    #247
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    handsomecake wrote: »
    i drive a 2litre petrol car.i am therefore a little relieved.


    can anyone explain why he upped diesel and didnt up petrol.
    i dont understand the rationale??im surely missing something.

    whats the difference between someone driving a golf gti and a golf tdi.why should one pay more??

    They hit petrol in the last one. We're all in this together and whatever other FF cliche you can think of!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #248
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    shamblertine wrote: »
    Such a bottle job in relation to welfare. Its the reason why Ireland is such a laughing stock at the minute. Our dole is more than 4 TIMES higher than that which you would get in the UK. They also don't have any rent assistence either. Also it'll mean more low paid people will decide to quit their jobs and go on the dole, and foreign nationals will continue to fly in for the day to pick up dole.

    There are people in the UK going hungry on their welfare and they are talking about increasing it because the cost of living is going up there because they are printing money and imports are more expensive now.

    I'm sure if they don't have a rent allowance that most of the people on their welfare are in council estates of some kind. I doubt you've given the whole picture.


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    #249
    ART6
    Registered Users Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭ART6


    Redpunto wrote: »
    it'll be those children who will be paying for your pension so you want to treat them well so they have enough food, shelter and education.

    And they will be choosing your nursing home;)


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    #250
    JP Liz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,588 ✭✭✭JP Liz


    So when is next budget i'm looking forward to it already :D


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    #251
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Heroditas wrote: »
    Ah here, that loss of 10-12k is in addition to what they are already paying.
    If their take home pay is €140,000 p.a., it amounts to about a 9% reduction in their take home pay. That's quite a chunk and a reduction in living standards.
    I think if they had pushed for more, they would be gone within a month. They'll target these higher earners again in December.

    People are now forced to live on 5K a year... 140K is still a colosol amount to make. No matter how much they are cut by.


    Jip wrote: »
    Because it will bring the price up to the point where people will head up north for their petrol. At the moment there's not much of a difference in petrol prices but there's enough space to play around with diesel.

    What? Who the hell is going to drive to the north for petrol? That will only effect those living within a reasonable distance from the border...


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    #252
    RonMexico
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,916 ✭✭✭RonMexico


    People need to toughen up and get a grip. Too many spoilt bastards running around the place and too many that expect everything handed to them by either their parents or the government.

    Get real or get out.


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    #253
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    handsomecake wrote: »
    i drive a 2litre petrol car.i am therefore a little relieved.


    can anyone explain why he upped diesel and didnt up petrol.
    i dont understand the rationale??im surely missing something.

    whats the difference between someone driving a golf gti and a golf tdi.why should one pay more??
    I'm guessing diesel may be a more widely used fuel. Many people have been switching to diesel because it's more economical. All industrial vehicles run on diesel, vans/trucks/tractors/jcb/ boats??


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    #254
    Highsider
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭Highsider


    shamblertine wrote: »
    Such a bottle job in relation to welfare. Its the reason why Ireland is such a laughing stock at the minute. Our dole is more than 4 TIMES higher than that which you would get in the UK. They also don't have any rent assistence either. Also it'll mean more low paid people will decide to quit their jobs and go on the dole, and foreign nationals will continue to fly in for the day to pick up dole.
    Absolute shambles. I'm just about getting by on a low paid job and TBH we'd be better off if i quit and just claimed the labour. The fact is you can sit at home as a 20 something man or woman living with mammy and daddy and get 200 blips straight into your hand for doing absolutley nothing. This goverment has'nt got the balls to sort this mess out imo. Time for them to go.:mad::mad::mad:


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    #255
    shamblertine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 888 ✭✭✭shamblertine


    thebman wrote: »
    There are people in the UK going hungry on their welfare and they are talking about increasing it because the cost of living is going up there because they are printing money and imports are more expensive now.

    I'm sure if they don't have a rent allowance that most of the people on their welfare are in council estates of some kind. I doubt you've given the whole picture.

    Well maybe its time some of our dolees started going hungry, might encourage them to get over themselves and apply for that job in Lidl. Or alternatively they could be given food tokens to cover their basic needs.


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    #256
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    shamblertine wrote: »
    Well maybe its time some of our dolees started going hungry, might encourage them to get over themselves and apply for that job in Lidl. Or alternatively they could be given food tokens to cover their basic needs.

    Above we have a person who just doesn't know anything about the current situation...

    Your answer to the problems is applying to a job that pays a lot more than the minimum wage... WTF are you talking about? You think people are sitting at home not wanting to work? Wise up...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


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    #257
    Mark200
    Registered Users Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    Highsider wrote: »
    Absolute shambles. I'm just about getting by on a low paid job and TBH we'd be better off if i quit and just claimed the labour. The fact is you can sit at home as a 20 something man or woman living with mammy and daddy and get 200 blips straight into your hand for doing absolutley nothing. This goverment has'nt got the balls to sort this mess out imo. Time for them to go.:mad::mad::mad:

    According to RTE (http://www.rte.ie/money/budget2009/stories/2009/0407/budgetmeasures.html) under 20's are having their doles rates cut by 50%.... so they did take into account the wasters who had no intention of getting a job once they left school....


    I didn't look through the 18 pages, but after skimming through the last two pages I got the impression people were just too ready to wave their "Fianna FAIL" flags on here and ready to say "fuck this I'm going up north", and then once they saw that the budget wasn't too bad, decide to say that FF bottled it and were just looking ahead to the next election etc...

    I think it was ok. They addressed teenagers going on the dole straight out of school. They axed the special christmas dole payments, and a "Commission on Taxation will decide on how to raise further money from taxing or means testing child benefit."..... they've pretty much addressed a lot of the things people keep giving out about. Although, I think they should have brought in a means test for child benefit straight away rather than setting up a commission.... but if something eventually comes out of it then it's good.


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    #258
    shamblertine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 888 ✭✭✭shamblertine


    Byron Limited Dashboard wrote: »
    Above we have a person who just doesn't know anything about the current situation...

    Your answer to the problems is applying to a job that pays a lot more than the minimum wage... WTF are you talking about? You think people are sitting at home not wanting to work? Wise up...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    And above we have a person who didn't read what I wrote. My answer to the problem is lowering dole so the low paid jobs which are undesirable to a lot will suddenly not seem so bad. And don't be so naive to think that there is not loads of people out there who don't want to work, or at least prefer not working when they are better off on the dole.


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    #259
    Mark200
    Registered Users Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    shamblertine wrote: »
    And above we have a person who didn't read what I wrote. My answer to the problem is lowering dole so the low paid jobs which are undesirable to a lot will suddenly not seem so bad. And don't be so naive to think that there is not loads of people out there who don't want to work, or at least prefer not working when they are better off on the dole.

    Of course there are, but at the moment the problem is the amount of people who do want to work currently out-numbers the amount of jobs available... so reducing the dole will do very little to help that.


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    #260
    shamblertine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 888 ✭✭✭shamblertine


    Mark200 wrote: »
    Of course there are, but at the moment the problem is the amount of people who do want to work currently out-numbers the amount of jobs available... so reducing the dole will do very little to help that.

    it will save the state from having to borrow so much at the very least


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    #261
    RATM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭RATM


    I was quite flabberghasted that about the 18-20's having their dole cut in half. Couldn't believe it really. Im sure there are slackers who leave school and sign right on but if they had of cut it in half during the boom times no one would've complained as there was a job for everyone as long as they were willing to work at anything. Now the situation has changed and the govt. is kicking these teenagers in the nuts.

    Was talking to my sis ( a barrister ) when it was announced. A colleague of hers says someone may take an action against it on age discrimination grounds, ie If your 18-20 and work we'll take tax off ya at the same rate as everyone else but if you're unemployed and 18-20 we won't give you as much as the rest of the adult population. There could well be an equality case in this one yet....

    Was also talking to one of my Profs ( of Political Science ) about it and he was also surprised. I asked him why did he think the govt. did it and he simply said 'Because they don't vote'. He's absolutely right, if 18-20yr olds voted the govt would've thought twice about this....

    At the end of the day though it seems to me to be a tax on their parents, the €100 a week they don't have will end up getting made up somehow so the cut is likely to be absorbed by parents who now have to subsidise their kids while they are looking for a job. And god love the parents if this recession has them unemployed too....

    There will also be knock on effects, its not hard to envisage a correlation between this dole cut and an increase in petty crime.


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    #262
    connundrum
    Registered Users Posts: 5,563 ✭✭✭connundrum


    RATM wrote: »
    I asked him why did he think the govt. did it and he simply said 'Because they don't vote'. He's absolutely right, if 18-20yr olds voted the govt would've thought twice about this.....
    • They don't vote
    • There are a large portion of them involved in 3rd level education/apprenticeships
    • They live at home with mammy and daddy for the most part
    • They won't be dropping from the average industrial wage down for the most part

    They were an easy target, but not an unfair target IMO. I wonder how much will actually be saved by doing this.

    On a side point,

    Get ready to see the city centre's blocked by Truckers and Taxi drivers in the next fortnight. Diesel was not a good one to go for IMO.


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    #263
    Madge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 731 ✭✭✭Madge


    Highsider wrote: »
    The fact is you can sit at home as a 20 something man or woman living with mammy and daddy and get 200 blips straight into your hand for doing absolutley nothing.

    not necessarily.. at the mo if you're under 24 and live at home, the payment is means tested against the parents income, so in reality the claimant might only be getting a small amount of welfare..


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    #264
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    shamblertine wrote: »
    Such a bottle job in relation to welfare. Its the reason why Ireland is such a laughing stock at the minute. Our dole is more than 4 TIMES higher than that which you would get in the UK. They also don't have any rent assistence either. Also it'll mean more low paid people will decide to quit their jobs and go on the dole, and foreign nationals will continue to fly in for the day to pick up dole.

    I don't think we should look to the UK for inspiration on Welfare payments.
    People (under 25) get £45 a week and don't get rent allowance.

    £45 a week is pitiful for a supposedly wealthy nation like the UK

    Someone who lives in Tyrone was telling me that after he has a rent/food/bills paid for he has £5 a week left. :eek:

    He goes out for one pint on a Saturday night and goes home!!

    This guy is a recent graduate of UU and can't get a job despite sending loads of applications.

    Although I agree, our dole is far too high - and the FF haven't got the balls to cut it, even by a fiver!


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    #265
    chamlis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,175 ✭✭✭chamlis


    http://www.amalkne.com/host/lenihan-sheriff.jpg


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    #266
    shamblertine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 888 ✭✭✭shamblertine


    salonfire wrote: »

    Someone who lives in Tyrone was telling me that after he has a rent/food/bills paid for he has £5 a week left. :eek:

    And thats the way it should be. People on the dole should have enough to get by and no more. Why should tax payers money go towards drinking sessions for people who don't work.


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    #267
    Unpossible
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭Unpossible


    Mark200 wrote: »
    a "Commission on Taxation will decide on how to raise further money from taxing or means testing child benefit."..... they've pretty much addressed a lot of the things people keep giving out about. Although, I think they should have brought in a means test for child benefit straight away rather than setting up a commission.... but if something eventually comes out of it then it's good.
    I suspect the commission is another excuse to give some cronys or relatives more money for sitting on a board for a few hours a month. I wuld not be surprised if that commission ends up costing more than the pityful* gains it will make from its "recommendations".

    *I say the commissions recommendations because I doubt it will even try to do anything other than posture and won't really make the hard decisions that need to be made to people (like developers & bankers etc..) other than the average joe.


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    #268
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 50,630 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    salonfire wrote: »
    Someone who lives in Tyrone was telling me that after he has a rent/food/bills paid for he has £5 a week left. :eek:

    He goes out for one pint on a Saturday night and goes home!!
    !

    he has his rent, bills, food and a pint a week paid for - he hasn't really got much to complain about tbh


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    #269
    thelordofcheese
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭thelordofcheese


    shamblertine wrote: »
    And thats the way it should be. People on the dole should have enough to get by and no more. Why should tax payers money go towards drinking sessions for people who don't work.

    I'd be more inclinded to say that the point is that one unforseen expense and the guy is shafted beyond reason.

    But then again, i don't have a massive hate on for people on the dole.


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    #270
    waxon-waxoff
    Registered Users Posts: 395 ✭✭waxon-waxoff


    The levy on the minimum wage earners narrows the gap to those on the dole even more.

    Actually, with €200 in the hand every week, cheap rent, free school supplies, medical card, vincent de paul parcels, community welfare officer handouts whenever you shout loud enough.... you'd be a mug to change out of those pyjamas and get a job.


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    #271
    keefg
    Registered Users Posts: 3,187 ✭✭✭keefg


    The loss of mortgage interest relief was a bit of a kick in the balls :mad:


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