Pro Wrestling nostalgia discussion!

SlickRic

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Personally speaking, i thought the last 30 minutes were the best part of that particular match. I think the funniest part of it though, was about four years later in his shoot interview, Bret claimed that Shawn sandbagged a lot of Bret's work during the match, when you can clearly see Bret no selling any of Shawn's submission stuff. Something that Shawn wasn't really known for using back then.

personally, i agree it could've just been the final 30mins and the match would have been way more memorable for me.

ah bret's just a whinge as we all know, shawn was a nightmare, but acting like a baby about it just made shawn look a lot better than he should have out of the whole thing. (btw I'm not looking for yet ANOTHER bret/shawn discussion, as I'm sure you're not either, i'm just saying!)

in terms of nostalgia, and while I'm on these two, I always enjoy watching Shawn's shoot on Bret while he had the bad knee on Raw I think it was.

ShawnRaven

gimmick wrote: »

WM 18, while a terrible show, had the awesome Rock V Hogan

Sorry but no, other than the stare down, what was so awesome about Rock/Hogan? The match was bloody horrible!

ShawnRaven

SlickRic wrote: »

in terms of nostalgia, and while I'm on these two, I always enjoy watching Shawn's shoot on Bret while he had the bad knee on Raw I think it was.

Back when RAW was must see TV, as opposed to the garbage it's been pumping out for years after it (save for HHH/Orton).

But that superkick while Bret was in the wheelchair was the shot heard around the world at the time. And it's no wonder that it was so convincing, because during that period of time, the pair really f*cking hated each other.

gimmick

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Sorry but no, other than the stare down, what was so awesome about Rock/Hogan? The match was bloody horrible!

Ya, meant to specify that the match was poor but the energy it generated was through the roof and actually makes the match memorable for that reason.

ShawnRaven

gimmick wrote: »

Ya, meant to specify that the match was poor but the energy it generated was through the roof and actually makes the match memorable for that reason.

Yeah, the stare down was awesome, the moment was awesome.
Once they locked up though, *plop!*

To make matters worse, it hasn't aged well at all. I watched it about 2 months ago and it really was a chore. And then the final nail in the coffin was the rematch they had 11 months later at No Way Out.

SlickRic

ShawnRaven wrote: »

And then the final nail in the coffin was the rematch they had 11 months later at No Way Out.

if it wasn't for Rock's promos before hand, and Vince's beatdown and taunting of Hogan at the end, I'd have forgotten completely about that rematch even taking place.

gimmick

But that was most memorable for Sylvan Greniers debut

Danny The Pain

gimmick wrote: »

Ya, meant to specify that the match was poor but the energy it generated was through the roof and actually makes the match memorable for that reason.

yeah i agree the match was memorable for the staredown but after that it was just a basic match nothin special hence the sayin a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down :D

Wrestlemania 17 onwards (Not including WM 17) what was your favourite Wrestlemania since then?

Id have to go for WM 19!
Angle Vs Brock
Rock Vs Austin III (Not as good as their other 2 mathces but still good)
Hogan Vs McMahon (Which I actually enjoyed)
HBK Vs Y2J

Too bad some of the other matches were stinkers like Rey Vs Matt Hardy and The Undertaker handicap match :rolleyes:


EDIT: And sure pick the worst since then as well

Id have to go for WM 23. Nothing really excited me about this Wrestlemania. It was built too much around the "Battle of the Billionaires" :rolleyes:

grames_bond

Deleted User wrote: »

Wrestlemania 17 onwards (Not including WM 17) what was your favourite Wrestlemania since then?

ah why cant we include wm 17?! i loved that wm!

grames_bond

grames_bond wrote: »

ah why cant we include wm 17?! i loved that wm!

Cause everyone will pick it lol . I want to see some different answers to why people like other Wrestlemanias.

Ruu_Old

WCW being on late Thursday night or just wait for it on Saturday afternoons. WCW Magazine, the Television Title, Sting V Vader never ending fueds. Brill stuff.

Danny The Pain

Deleted User wrote: »

Wrestlemania 17 onwards (Not including WM 17) what was your favourite Wrestlemania since then?

Id have to go for WM 19!
Angle Vs Brock
Rock Vs Austin III (Not as good as their other 2 mathces but still good)
Hogan Vs McMahon (Which I actually enjoyed)
HBK Vs Y2J

Too bad some of the other matches were stinkers like Rey Vs Matt Hardy and The Undertaker handicap match :rolleyes:


EDIT: And sure pick the worst since then as well

Id have to go for WM 23. Nothing really excited me about this Wrestlemania. It was built too much around the "Battle of the Billionaires" :rolleyes:

WM 19 in my eyes was the last proper mania card where i was interested in the matchs (the main ones that is) after that one they where ok but the "magic" if ya wanna call it that isnt there anymore

ShawnRaven

Deleted User wrote: »

Wrestlemania 17 onwards (Not including WM 17) what was your favourite Wrestlemania since then?

22 out of all the ones so far since, and that's only out of being forced to pick.
There was no option for "none, they all sucked" :P

Rjd2

Wrestlemania 20 has not aged well, two great main events and a decent midcard match between Jericho and Christian was not enough to justify its hype.:(
Crappy Undertaker squash match, brutal divas match which was a surprise as Molly and Victoria were good workers and forgettable tag matches (yes I include the Evolution one) lets the card down big time.

ShawnRaven

Rjd2 wrote: »

Wrestlemania 20 has not aged well, two great main events and a decent midcard match between Jericho and Christian was not enough to justify its hype.:(
Crappy Undertaker squash match, brutal divas match which was a surprise as Molly and Victoria were good workers and forgettable tag matches (yes I include the Evolution one) lets the card down big time.

I really f*cking hated the main event on that one. WWE had no faith in Benoit/HHH as a main event draw, so they throw in Michaels there. I'm a Michaels fan, but he had no business in there especially after the wretched Royal Rumble match he had with HHH two months earlier in a feud was as stale as last weeks loaf.

Mania's endings should always be 1 v 1, i know it sounds like old school, old mentality. But i really hate 3 ways or 4 ways closing the show.

lynnsback

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Unlikely as it sounds, there are still a lot of wrestling fans who still don't bother reading smarky sites and forums. Hell, we were all one at some point. Hell most kids who attend the shows wouldn't understand half of what we talk about here.

Pieces of the puzzle regarding wrestlers keeping character fitting yet?(

Wrestling was SO much better when the illusion was kept at all times. I wish it was still like that

ShawnRaven

lynnsback wrote: »

Wrestling was SO much better when the illusion was kept at all times. I wish it was still like that

To a degree, so do I. You said in another post, that your heroes were the likes of Savage and Liz, which leads me to believe that you're from a similar era of fan to myself (I started watching at the end of 86). You didn't see heel turns coming then, or if you did, you saw them coming a mile off because it was justified (Savage turning on Hogan before Mania V), or Martel turning on Santana at Mania V. You had reason to support or despise a heel turn.

Matt turning on Jeff was the only real surprise turn in WWE in the last year that I could see, for anything else, it was just "Meh, again?" I don't know if that's just down to the illusion we once had when we watched it years ago, if we're just smarter now, or if Vince is just being sloppy overall.

Either way, i still agree that it is important that heels do keep some sense of character after the shows, cos it's not believable enough as it is.

lynnsback

ShawnRaven wrote:

You said in another post, that your heroes were the likes of Savage and Liz, which leads me to believe that you're from a similar era of fan to myself (I started watching at the end of 86).

I started watching it in 1990 but I got all the VHS immediately and followed Liz and Randy all the way back from when they started. I was totally in love with Elizabeth. The day she died I was SO upset. I have heard more than a few people say that Liz and Randy were so in love IRL until he just got too possessive. Hogan of course stuck his nose in and helped to make things worse.

Elizabeth was such a classy lady and everyone behind the scenes has reported her as being very true to her character. So sad she ever got into drugs.

ShawnRaven

lynnsback wrote: »

I started watching it in 1990 but I got all the VHS immediately and followed Liz and Randy all the way back from when they started. I was totally in love with Elizabeth. The day she died I was SO upset. I have heard more than a few people say that Liz and Randy were so in love IRL until he just got too possessive. Hogan of course stuck his nose in and helped to make things worse.

Elizabeth was such a classy lady and everyone behind the scenes has reported her as being very true to her character. So sad she ever got into drugs.

Lynn's back, and so is the Nostalgia discussion thread. Given the direction this discussion was taking, I felt it had more of a home here.

Hrm, the Savage and Liz relationship thing... Savage really was on the paranoia train, that said, according to the Lanny Poffo shoot interview, that the "locking her up in boiler rooms" was a completely blown out of proportion rumours. He would keep her in the locker rooms. At the same time, Poffo also said that if he was that paranoid about her, why bring her on the road?

Wasn't so much Hogan stuck his nose in, it was his wife! The side of that story, it was actually Linda who convinced Liz to eventually up and leave.

Her death was a shock to many, myself included. Luger beat himself up big time over it. It's no surprise that Savage is completely distancing himself away from the wrestling business over time, given that his ex wife and several of his friends have died as part of their involvement in it.

rossie1977

ShawnRaven wrote: »

I really f*cking hated the main event on that one. WWE had no faith in Benoit/HHH as a main event draw, so they throw in Michaels there. I'm a Michaels fan, but he had no business in there especially after the wretched Royal Rumble match he had with HHH two months earlier in a feud was as stale as last weeks loaf.

Mania's endings should always be 1 v 1, i know it sounds like old school, old mentality. But i really hate 3 ways or 4 ways closing the show.

watched that match the other night and despite being meh about it at the time, its a great, great match in truth and easily the one of the best triple threats in wwe(f) history

ShawnRaven wrote:

22 out of all the ones so far since, and that's only out of being forced to pick.
There was no option for "none, they all sucked"

i would be interested in your ranking of manias, you disagreed with me when i said WM2, 4, 5 were horrible (which they were ) and now you think all manias since 17 sucked, on this point i have to disagree with you, 19 and 24 were fine shows. 22 was a good mania with one or two duds but that happens every mania, name me a mania without one or two duds, even 17 had them (gimmick battle royale, ivory/chyna, apa/taz vs right to censor)

ShawnRaven

rossie1977 wrote: »

i would be interested in your ranking of manias, you disagreed with me when i said WM2, 4, 5 were horrible (which they were ) and now you think all manias since 17 sucked, on this point i have to disagree with you, 19 and 24 were fine shows. 22 was a good mania with one or two duds but that happens every mania, name me a mania without one or two duds, even 17 had them (gimmick battle royale, ivory/chyna, apa/taz vs right to censor)

I had the first 10 started, but with your smart-assed attitude of hammering across the (which they were) part, when you weren't even bothered to point out exactly how. I figured I wouldn't bother.

Screw that! :P

krudler

Anyone got any recommendations for WCW ppvs? Been watching some of the old Nitros on dailymotion lately (purely because Im utterly bored with the current WWE product and decided to watch some of the Attitude and nWo goodness of 97-98 , was thinking of picking up that Starrcade dvd but it seems like a mixed bag, for every Flair/Steamboat theres Hogan/Sting *shudder* such an amazing buildup and then they had to throw in a Mcmahon bashing ref doing a fast count angle at the end (and make a balls of it)

ShawnRaven

krudler wrote: »

Anyone got any recommendations for WCW ppvs? Been watching some of the old Nitros on dailymotion lately (purely because Im utterly bored with the current WWE product and decided to watch some of the Attitude and nWo goodness of 97-98 , was thinking of picking up that Starrcade dvd but it seems like a mixed bag, for every Flair/Steamboat theres Hogan/Sting *shudder* such an amazing buildup and then they had to throw in a Mcmahon bashing ref doing a fast count angle at the end (and make a balls of it)

WCW PPV's are not that great! Pick up the Starrcade DVD. The documentary is quite short, that's the only problem with it, but you'll probably have 9 out of 10 of the best PPV matches WCW produced. Things to remember about the monday night wars from 1995-1997.

WCW was about decent Monday TV and crappy PPVs
WWE was about crappy Mondat TV and awesome PPVs

There's some really good WCW stuff from around 90-92 with early Austin, Pillman, Steamboat stuff in it. But get the Starrcade DVD first to wet your appetite. You'll also hear Jim Ross at his best when it comes to commentary, when he was an actual commentator, as opposed to the glorified cartoon he'd become with "slobberknockers, government mules and HORROWITZ WINS! HORROWITZ WINS HORROWITZ WINS!!"

krudler

Am I wrong to actually like Bischoff? His segments on the Monday Night War dvd are very watchable and even though he had his shortcomings as a promoter/producer/whatever he was the only promoter who had the balls, the brains and the bankroll to ever take it to Vince creatively, the 24/7 roundtable discussion about WCW is well worth a watch, even Michael Hayes admits the nWo black and white promos on WCW tv were fantastic

ShawnRaven

krudler wrote: »

Am I wrong to actually like Bischoff? His segments on the Monday Night War dvd are very watchable and even though he had his shortcomings as a promoter/producer/whatever he was the only promoter who had the balls, the brains and the bankroll to ever take it to Vince creatively, the 24/7 roundtable discussion about WCW is well worth a watch, even Michael Hayes admits the nWo black and white promos on WCW tv were fantastic

I love Bischoff. He's the only one to ever come close to putting Vince McMahon out of business and the only one who could actually challenge him. He took Vince's own medicine and gave him a heavy dose of it.

The only tragic thing about the whole thing is that Vince ultimately hasn't learned his lesson from it. Rather than try and fix a problem, he simply buys his way out of it. Which is sad because that's exactly the reason Turner and Bischoff went out of business in the first place.

rossie1977

ShawnRaven wrote: »

when you weren't even bothered to point out exactly how.

Screw that! :P

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59714035&postcount=1012

ShawnRaven

rossie1977 wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59714035&postcount=1012

rossie,
Please accept my apologies, I was wrong.
I've been in a foul mood the last couple of days too, but that was bang out of order on my part. How i forgot about that reply (although I do remember reading that a while back), i've no idea. That's a f*ckup on my part.

5 had Bad News Brown vs. Jim Duggan, Red Rooster vs. Bobby Heenan, Rougeaus and bushwhackers, Demolition and The Powers of Pain and garvin and bravo, a barely mobile andre/jake

2 was a total trainwreck from start to finish, 3 arenas ffs, Orndorff/Muraco, savage/steele, piper/mr t, moohlah/the irish yoke, Kirchner vs. Nikolai Volkoff, Adonis/elmer, hogan/bundy

Yet you justify the abortion of a PPV that was Mania 13 just because of a sub-par Bret/Austin match when they had a way better one only four months earlier? (and better ones after that!).

You conveniently left out the good stuff on Mania V, being Arn & Tully vs Strike Force, as well as the unexpected heel turn of Martel, Rockers/Twin Towers as quite a fast moving match considering it featured two over 400lbers, Warrior/Rude and Rude's first major title win with the promotion and the awesome Hogan/Savage?

Two wasn't a complete trainwreck, but the 3 arenas was a dumb move, but you have to remember that wasn't shown on proper PPV, that was still on closed circuit I believe, so Vince had f*ck all to lose. Hogan/Bundy was a damn good match for 1986 with the ending it needed. Just because it aged horribly by todays standards does not make it a good match for it's time. Especially when it was all showbiz back then catered for the MTV generation. And again, you conveniently left out the awesome Bulldogs/Dream Team match. That's two great matches but you let 13 away with one?

I'll dig up the first set of ratings i did. And stick em on the thread later.
Again, my apologies for jumping down your throat and being a dick.

ShawnRaven

rossie1977 wrote: »

i would be interested in your ranking of manias, you disagreed with me when i said WM2, 4, 5 were horrible (which they were ) and now you think all manias since 17 sucked, on this point i have to disagree with you, 19 and 24 were fine shows. 22 was a good mania with one or two duds but that happens every mania, name me a mania without one or two duds, even 17 had them (gimmick battle royale, ivory/chyna, apa/taz vs right to censor)

-
*cracks knuckles* Thought you'd never ask. Rankings are out of five.

1 - get a 1/5, probably because they hadn't a clue what they were doing at the same time, has aged horribly and really doesn't have much in the way of a decent match on it

2 - gets a 3/5. Hogan/Bundy was awesome for it's time, Bulldogs/Dream Team is easily the highlight of the night, and didn't have a bad battle royal considering the awful one that was at 4.

3 - gets a 4/5. Hogan/Andre slam is an awesome moment, Savage/Steamboat is the match of the night, Harts & Santana/Bulldogs & Davis is still watchable, as is Orton & Muraco/CanAm Connection

4 - also gets 4/5, for Savage/DiBiase, Savage/Valentine, Strike Force/Demolition and Steamboat/Valentine.

5 - gets 3/5, as WWE's shambles begins! But Hogan/Savage, Beefcake/DiBiase, Strike force/Brainbusters are 3 very good matches. Blazer/Perfect is a perfect mix and one of the few times they were in the ring together. Rockers/Twin Towers was ok considering it was two completely different styles working pretty well together.

6 - gets a 4/5 Beefcake/Perfect is really good here considering Beefcake was coming out of sucksville, Bad News/Piper is a fun brawl, Rude/Snuka is a scaringly good match considering Rude was coming out of sucksville, while Snuka was catching the bus in the opposite direction. Jake/DiBiase would have been good as well had they not had the 5 minute resthold complete with mexican wave. And Hogan/Warrior blew the roof off the place.

7 - this gets 4/5 too just for Savage/Warrior and Hogan/Slaughter alone. Especially as Hogan was the only person ever to get a decent match out of Slaughter during his time there. Rockers/Barbarian & Haku was a really hot opener as well, and Perfect/Bossman was a good match with a bad ending.

8 - 4/5 for Bret/Piper, Flair/Savage and Hogan/Sid. Sid hadn't had a decent match prior to that, and wouldn't have one again for another four years.

9 - 0/5. Nothing could save that atrocity.

- 10 - 4/5 for Bret/Owen, Shawn/Razor and Bret/Yokozuna

ShawnRaven

Part 2
I'll have to get around to the last five next week guys, i haven't watched them in a while

11 - gets 3/5 just for Michaels/Nash alone, but Bret/Backlund II was so bad, it put people in the crowd to sleep. LT/Bam Bam was an insult to any pro wrestling fan watching in 1995 having a footballer and an untested main eventer in Bam Bam finish the show off.

12 - This gets a low 2/5 from me, Bret/Shawn does not age well, that said it was an outstanding match for it's time and Taker/Nash is perfectly watchable, but the rest is fairly forgettable

13 - You saw this coming, 1/5, Bret/Austin may be a classic as far as Mania matches go, but one match does not make a PPV, nevermind the biggest one of the card.

14 - This gets 4/5 for me! I loved this! Rock/Shamrock, HHH/Owen, Michaels/Austin, Taka/Augila. Worth every cent paid.

15 - This one, uuuh not so good, noted for the worst ever HITC match. Taker couldn't work miracles even then, but that Vince Russo ending. But we got Rock/Austin so we get 2/5 for this one.

16 - Gets 2/5 for Jericho/Benoit/Angle alone. The rest was utter dirt and the fact that the only singles match on the card was a gimmicked womens match was an insult to wrestling.

17 - You guessed it. 5/5! The only dud to my liking on this one really was the Test/Eddie match, the womens match wasn't long enough to be offensive, neither was the RTC/Tazz & APA match. Angle/Benoit, HHH/Taker. Rock/Austin, Jericho/Regal, TLC II, what's not to love?

18 - What a backfire this was. Hogan was a horrible heel here, and couldn't work for sh*t, Rock was never that great in the ring either, and Jerico/HHH while being a decent enough match, the buildup was poor and Jericho was made to look like a weak champion. 2/5 and don't even get me started about Booker and Edge feuding over Shampoo.

19 - I watched this again a couple of weeks ago, and i was a little harsh on this one in the past. This gets 4/5 for Shawn/Jericho, HHH carrying wannabe main eventer Booker T, Angle/Brock considering Brock wasn't much of a tested main eventer in such a large capacity, while Angle's neck was held together with duct tape for this match. Some good tag matches in there as well.

20 - I really didn't like this at all. It was nice for Cena to get his first Mania win, but Show looked bad after it, Brock/Goldberg was dire, The triple threat was throwaway for my liking and Shawn really shouldn't have been in there. Angle/Guerrero wasn't as good as it could have been either. This gets 3/5 and likes it.