Pro Wrestling nostalgia discussion!

ShawnRaven

michael.etc... wrote: »

Oh yeah, i know all that, and i can understand that. But it boggles my mind how they insisted (if my memory serves correctly...) in booking a bunch of early matches that capitilised on current feuds (such as Jake/rude), but ended up not delivering, because they didn't want to add anything other than a worthless chapter... if that makes sense.
I still would have put Rude over Steamboat, then had him interfere in Jake's match.

I think the worst PPV for that sort of thing was Summerslam 89.

After Mania there were several feuds that were never finished.

One match that made no sense was the Rockers/Santana v Rougeaus/Martel

Santana/Martel never had their feud settled on PPV. They had a 5 minute blow off on SNME, and it made zero sense because Martel had serious heel heat from turning on Santana at Mania, and then he took on Slick as his manager.

Speaking of the Rougeaus, around that time they also had unfinished business with the Harts from the previous year, again, never fully settled, blown off in a six man tag at the Royal Rumble earlier that year. Both would have served as pretty good blowoffs for that Summerslam. They could have easily saved Harts/Arn & Tully for an SNME, seeing as thats where most of Arn & Tully's best work was displayed during their time in WWE anyway.

Actually that would have worked out better for Summerslam 89

Santana/Martel
Harts/Rougeaus
Rockers/Arn & Tully, especially considering the two matches they had on two different SNME's.

big syke

i remember havin the 1992 annual and watching it every sunday but my 1st proper clear was rushing home to watch superstars one sunday evening. Superstars usually only had squash matches but for some reason owen and bret were wrestling each other that night...

the 1st video i personally bought myself was survivor series 98 on vhs...wat an event.....

those were the days:rolleyes:

ShawnRaven

big syke wrote: »

the 1st video i personally bought myself was survivor series 98 on vhs...wat an event.....

those were the days:rolleyes:

Never got the big deal behind that PPV, although two things i specifically remember.

Dwayne Gill (before he wanted to know Who's First!) as a substitute in the tournament, and Steven Regal's "Real Man's Man" entrance. Both hilarious.

big syke

He's a man, a real mans man!!!:D

its all about the memories and nostalgia of that event not the quality of the ppv itself!!

flahavaj

michael.etc... wrote: »

Yep.. it got worse when you started following WWE magazine too.. almost impossible to keep up.

In fairness, once you start dabbling with the booking, you could probably do with re-arranging the whole tournament. I would have kept Jake and Rude apart altogether, and done Rude/Steamboat. Easy to say that now though...

Funny you should mention Rude/Steamboat, they had a really good Iron Man Match in June 1992 in WCW thats well worth a look. Saw it there the other day and it really ages well, great heel psychology from Rude. Better than Hart/Michaels Iron man in my book.

ShawnRaven

flahavaj wrote: »

Funny you should mention Rude/Steamboat, they had a really good Iron Man Match in June 1992 in WCW thats well worth a look. Saw it there the other day and it really ages well, great heel psychology from Rude. Better than Hart/Michaels Iron man in my book.

Rude rarely had a bad match in WCW at that point, oddly enough one of the bad matches he did have was at the 1993 Fall Brawl against one of the few people one would expect him to have a bad match with, and that was Flair!

Hart/Michaels Ironman sucked. One hour of restholds and submission moves to have no decision at the end of it? The last 30 minutes of it would have made the match with a decision. But the first 30 were horrid.

krudler

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Rude rarely had a bad match in WCW at that point, oddly enough one of the bad matches he did have was at the 1993 Fall Brawl against one of the few people one would expect him to have a bad match with, and that was Flair!

Hart/Michaels Ironman sucked. One hour of restholds and submission moves to have no decision at the end of it? The last 30 minutes of it would have made the match with a decision. But the first 30 were horrid.

And yet it keeps winding up being in top ten lists of best matches, WWE polls anyway, despite the fact its as dull as ditchwater for most of it, actually the highlight footage on the 2nd disc that came with the Wrestlemania 2000 dvd makes it look like a fantastic match when it isnt, just watch the highlights itll spare you an hour of boredom, the Rock/HHH ironman was great though, although still suffered from restholds every few mins, but its to be expected really cant expect a match like that to go an hour with fast paced moves from start to finish, lets all hope Randy Orton is never in an Iron Man match, itll be an hour long chinlock

flahavaj

Was looking at an old Arn Anderson promo there the other day as well, most underrated promo guy of all time perhaps? He seems permanently overshadowed by the likes of Flair and Dusty in such discussion, by he was immense in his own right.

flahavaj

krudler wrote: »

And yet it keeps winding up being in top ten lists of best matches, WWE polls anyway, despite the fact its as dull as ditchwater for most of it, actually the highlight footage on the 2nd disc that came with the Wrestlemania 2000 dvd makes it look like a fantastic match when it isnt, just watch the highlights itll spare you an hour of boredom, the Rock/HHH ironman was great though, although still suffered from restholds every few mins, but its to be expected really cant expect a match like that to go an hour with fast paced moves from start to finish, lets all hope Randy Orton is never in an Iron Man match, itll be an hour long chinlock

Absolutely. I could name a list of ten or more one hour or Iron Man matches that were far better.

ShawnRaven

flahavaj wrote: »

Was looking at an old Arn Anderson promo there the other day as well, most underrated promo guy of all time perhaps? He seems permanently overshadowed by the likes of Flair and Dusty in such discussion, by he was immense in his own right.

Oh he was, but i don't think that he was underrated though. As far as his role in the Horsemen were concerned, he didn't have to do a lot of promos. He had Flair to do that. Anderson was the non nonsense tough guy. He went into the ring, got to work, wiped his hands and then left. Hence why he was known as the Enforcer.

His WWE work with Tully in the ring was exceptional, but Vince didn't feel either of their promo skills were up to scratch, so they lumped em in with Heenan. Not that there's anything wrong with Heenan doing your mic work, but they didn't need him, just like Flair didn't need him. But the direction Vince was taking the promotion at the time, their promo styles sadly weren't going to fit.

Shame.

ShawnRaven

flahavaj wrote: »

Absolutely. I could name a list of ten or more one hour or Iron Man matches that were far better.

Angle/Lesnar being one, Rock/HHH (save for the wretched ending), Benoit/HHH for the one hours.

Rude/Dustin Rhodes in WCW was pretty decent too.

flahavaj

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Oh he was, but i don't think that he was underrated though. As far as his role in the Horsemen were concerned, he didn't have to do a lot of promos. He had Flair to do that. Anderson was the non nonsense tough guy. He went into the ring, got to work, wiped his hands and then left. Hence why he was known as the Enforcer.

His WWE work with Tully in the ring was exceptional, but Vince didn't feel either of their promo skills were up to scratch, so they lumped em in with Heenan. Not that there's anything wrong with Heenan doing your mic work, but they didn't need him, just like Flair didn't need him. But the direction Vince was taking the promotion at the time, their promo styles sadly weren't going to fit.

Shame.

Damn straight. Easy to see why he was probably the ideal go to guy if you ewere looking for a great TV champ.

Can work a ten minute draw with a broom handle? Check.

Proven pedigree as a champion? Check.

Can round out your TV broadcast with an awesome 30 second promo to leave the viewer begging for more? Check.

I need to watch me some more AA as a singles guy.

flahavaj

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Angle/Lesnar being one, Rock/HHH (save for the wretched ending), Benoit/HHH for the one hours.

Rude/Dustin Rhodes in WCW was pretty decent too.

Punk/Joe x2, Punk/Hero 90 minute from IWA-MS (not that SR will agree!;))

Some great ones from 90's AJPW as well notably one between Kobashi and Kawada and Misawa/Kobashi vs Kawada/Taue broadway was beyond exceptional.

Ive a handheld of a Bret/Owen broadway from a houseshow that I really must find time for one of these days. Surely it must be decent?

ShawnRaven

flahavaj wrote: »

Punk/Joe x2, Punk/Hero 90 minute from IWA-MS (not that SR will agree!;))

Can't rate something I didn't see. :P
That said, 90 minutes for one match is something I wouldn't bother with, period. Unless i really needed a cure for insomnia. Most one hour ironmans put me to sleep as it is.

flahavaj

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Can't rate something I didn't see. :P
That said, 90 minutes for one match is something I wouldn't bother with, period. Unless i really needed a cure for insomnia. Most one hour ironmans put me to sleep as it is.

Its actually quite easy to get through that 90 min match, believe it or not. Danielson and Austin Aries is another one that went over the 60 that waas remarkably good. Think there were 76 people at that one!:p;):D

Machismo Fan

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Most one hour ironmans put me to sleep as it is.

I much prefer 30 minute Iron Man matches. There's a lot less drag in them, just look at the Styles/Daniels 30 minute Iron man matches from TNA in '05, phenomenal (if you pardon the pun).

ShawnRaven

flahavaj wrote: »

Think there were 76 people at that one!:p;):D

Must have been a new world record for them then! :P

gimmick

Just to point out that Aries Danielson, Joe Punk, Hero Punk were not Iron matches, they were matches which just happened to got that long, therefore giving them a different psychology. Think Hero V Punk was a 2/3 falls match? Nver seen it. Its on the to find list though.

thebeanz

When was the last 2/3 falls match in wwe, i can't remember.

I liked the HHH v HBK 2/3 match in 02, i always enjoyed their matches against each other.

michael.etc...

flahavaj wrote: »

Ive a handheld of a Bret/Owen broadway from a houseshow that I really must find time for one of these days. Surely it must be decent?

This would be quite the find, i'd like to see that. I've seen a fan-cam of a Flair/Bret broadway, but the quality was pretty horrid, though it did look like a decent match.

Can't say i agree with the view that Bret/Shawn was anything other than good- i thought it was GREAT- though i did prefer all of the other WWE Iron Man efforts that followed.

LOVED Aries/Dragon from Testing the Limit. One that gets overlooked alot in my book, is Cabana/Dragon from Gut Check which told a tremendous story. yes, like Hero/Punk, they were 2/3 falls matches... and they definitely benefit from the differing psychology as Gimmick mentioned.

I generally don't like those 30minute Iron Man efforts someone mentioned. They usually contain too many falls, and end up making both guys look foolish. Sure, we've seen some good ones.. but they're usually a disappointment within the context of the feud.

gimmick

^ Agree with that. There was a 30 minute iron Match between Joe and Angle not long after Angle came into TNA. It was something like 3-2 or 4-3, which was completely daft and unrealsitic, given their 2nd match went about 25 minutes and there was only one fall. Are people meant to believe that ebcause it is an Iron match a fella will not try to kick out of a finisher, or said finisher is more devastating?

Ditto for an Iron man between Angle and HBK. Loads of falls. Utterly pointless.

I think it is just a bad gimmick match full stop.

Gerard.C

Am I the only one who preferred the first Punk-Joe iron man to the second?

gimmick

^ It was not an iron man match - it was a regular 60 minute time limit match. And no, I think the first installment just about shades it for me as well.

Gerard.C

gimmick wrote: »

^ It was not an iron man match - it was a regular 60 minute time limit match. And no, I think the first installment just about shades it for me as well.

Arra one of ye two of ye.

Meltzer gave the second one ***** I think. I much preferred the first one myself

michael.etc...

Gerard.C wrote: »

Arra one of ye two of ye.

Meltzer gave the second one ***** I think. I much preferred the first one myself

I enjoyed the second more... because it played off the first. Then again, it wouldn't have been so special, without that first encounter. It's little odds.. all their matches were great.
I think we're getting away from "nostalgia" with this though...


I'm about half-way through The Best of Saturday Night's Main Event.......
outstanding stuff...... even the debut of Sapphire brings a smile....

ShawnRaven

michael.etc... wrote: »

I enjoyed the second more... because it played off the first. Then again, it wouldn't have been so special, without that first encounter. It's little odds.. all their matches were great.
I think we're getting away from "nostalgia" with this though...


I'm about half-way through The Best of Saturday Night's Main Event.......
outstanding stuff...... even the debut of Sapphire brings a smile....

SNME was awesome. Have every single one of them from 86-92. It ended there realistically, the newer ones are more like Saturday Night RAW. But SNME was better than a lot of the PPVs back then.

SlickRic

ShawnRaven wrote: »

Hart/Michaels Ironman sucked. One hour of restholds and submission moves to have no decision at the end of it? The last 30 minutes of it would have made the match with a decision. But the first 30 were horrid.

thank goodness someone else agrees. the way this match is lauded so passionately sometimes, it makes me a bit ill.

didn't they work the match that they made up 30mins each of the match. i wonder whose 30mins was the sucky part? :pac:

ShawnRaven

SlickRic wrote: »

thank goodness someone else agrees. the way this match is lauded so passionately sometimes, it makes me a bit ill.

didn't they work the match that they made up 30mins each of the match. i wonder whose 30mins was the sucky part? :pac:

Personally speaking, i thought the last 30 minutes were the best part of that particular match. I think the funniest part of it though, was about four years later in his shoot interview, Bret claimed that Shawn sandbagged a lot of Bret's work during the match, when you can clearly see Bret no selling any of Shawn's submission stuff. Something that Shawn wasn't really known for using back then.

Danny The Pain

hey i thought this thread was for wrestling nostalgia not current wrestling did i miss someth?

gimmick

With Wrestlemania just a short few days away now does anyone miss the hype? I mean looking back a few years, there were matches which were so exciting on the cards that you could not wait for the event.

Even as recent as WM 20 we had Guerrero Vs Angle, returning Deadman Taker Vs Kane, Brock Vs Goldberg

WM 19 we had Angle Vs Lesnar which was built spectacularly for 4-5 months, we had HBK Vs Jericho, we had Rock and Austin

WM 18, while a terrible show, had the awesome Rock V Hogan

WM 17 was just amazing altogether. It had a TLC, Taker Vs HHH, Rock V Austin

You get the point. This year, what is on the card? Pretty much nothing which grabs the imagination. You could argue the same for last year bar Taker Vs Edge which was a first time match if memory serves.