I just became an atheist

Flamed Diving

Húrin wrote: »

I think his three fatal assumptions are

Húrin wrote: »

1. That Pirhanas refrain from killing each other through choice (morality) rather than involuntary programming (instinct)

Really? I thought his point was that all animals (especially social ones) have an instinct to cooperate. That's how the population survives. We carry the same instinct. We are social creatures. We would not survive unless we helped each other, within defined communities at least.

Húrin wrote: »

2. That because each family on the fictional island would be inclined to eliminate the other, by strong instinct, that their actions would be moral.

His point was how there is no moral law, only what suits the defined group. Just like in the old testament, remember?

Húrin wrote: »

3. That most Christians, Jews and others in history who believed in absolute morality, lived in comfortable, opulent circumstances.

What part of the film is this?

DeVore

For me a big revelation was thinking this: If nothing I do matters, then the only thing that matters is what I do.

After that, everything kinda feel into place for me.

DeV.

jill_valentine

DeVore wrote: »

For me a big revelation was thinking this: If nothing I do matters, then the only thing that matters is what I do.

After that, everything kinda feel into place for me.

DeV.

God bless Joss Whedon.

DeVore

Eh?

Who is Joss Whedon?

DeV.

DeVore

Ok, thats very very strange. I googled him and that phrase and its practically exactly the same but... I'd never heard of the guy! (though I will admit to having watched Angel late at night). Spooky. Maybe it was God

DeV.

inordertobeable

We are all just here, existing.

Enjoy it. Regardless of what happens after because no one knows.

Enjoy.

5uspect

DeVore wrote: »

Eh?

Who is Joss Whedon?

DeV.

Firefly ftw!

jill_valentine

And on that note...

Skip until 2:19:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JySE_zTG9yM

Húrin

Mickeroo wrote: »

Did god not give them these instincts?? Would they not be the equivalent to human morals? Morals is just another word for instincts.

No, morals are not synonymous with instincts. We have instincts. Sometimes our instincts encourage us to do right, and sometimes they encourage us to do wrong. Morals mean we have a choice. Pirhanas probably don't have a choice. Instincts would seem to be probably evolved, and thus not especially God given outside of the sense that evolution itself is God-given.

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Really? I thought his point was that all animals (especially social ones) have an instinct to cooperate. That's how the population survives. We carry the same instinct. We are social creatures. We would not survive unless we helped each other, within defined communities at least.

Yes, I agree that we have such an instinct. But the pirhana remark demonstrates a lack of understanding of the difference between morals and instincts. The narrator seemed to think that Pirhanas have a choice about whether to kill each other or not, and that they are so moral that they always choose not to.

His point was how there is no moral law, only what suits the defined group.

I know that he meant that; however I am disagreeing with him. He thinks that it would be right for one family to kill the other, simply because that's what their instincts would suggest/demand that they do. The moral choice would be for each family to divide the food equally between them. Now that's definintely easier said than done, but it would be the right thing to do. If both are on an island, they're all going to die of starvation eventually.

What part of the film is this?

Near the end. It is coupled with a shot of skyscrapers at night.
It's clearly nonsense. If anything, the material advancement of western society seems to have bred more moral relativism, not less of it.

Mickeroo

Húrin wrote: »

I know that he meant that; however I am disagreeing with him. He thinks that it would be right for one family to kill the other, simply because that's what their instincts would suggest/demand that they do. The moral choice would be for each family to divide the food equally between them. Now that's definintely easier said than done, but it would be the right thing to do. If both are on an island, they're all going to die of starvation eventually.

He didnt say it would be right,he said it is what would happen. It's our nature to protect our families and ourselves. It's easy for us to say the moral thing
is to divide the food evenly because we're not the ones fighting for survival, but in situations like this morals go out the window, its the same with war or any disaster. People loot,steal,do whatever is necessary to keep themselves alive.

DeVore

jill_valentine wrote: »

And on that note...

Skip until 2:19:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JySE_zTG9yM

Ah sweet.... I must have heard it there or absorbed it from the background. Weird, but ok. Its still very much my take on how I conduct myself.

DeV.

jill_valentine

DeVore wrote: »

Never seen him involved in atheism before though. Strange feeling to think we thought of the same thing but then I guess probably 100k people across the globe have thought it independently too.

DeV.

Great minds think alike, and all that...

A lot of his stuff makes a lot more sense when you bear in mind that he is an atheist, and a vocal one. Firefly/ Serenity in particular, dwelling a lot on coping with a loss of faith, but Buffy and Angel weren't above taking the odd wry potshot at God now and then...

Galvasean

Firefly being cancelled after its first season is surely proof there is no God..

Mickeroo

Galvasean wrote: »

Firefly being cancelled after its first season is surely proof there is no God..

nay halfway through it's first season

Galvasean

Mickeroo wrote: »

nay halfway through it's first season

I guess that means theree's no karma either.

Doctor DooM

Galvasean wrote: »

Firefly being cancelled after its first season is surely proof there is no God..

Next time PDN creates a well constructed, provocative and well researched post, I am going to stymie him with that.