Kerry GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post #4167

keane2097

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

keane2097 wrote: »

He's always been filthy and he's playing some of the best football of his career in the last twelve months.

People hear the same thing in the media about players being finished for year after year and try and reverse rationalise it when it's really just a load of shit.

You have some serious issued with Tomás, Keane...pourquoi? Did he misbehave down Strand road in a co. c/ship game or something?!

Seriously though..He was reckless in his younger days but from 2001-2010 there was nothing but hard good football by him in my opinion.
The deterioration in his discipline since 2010 is both annoying and frustrating. I don't know how much you could attribute to issues in his private life, but this isn't the place to get into stuff like that.
He is potentially as effective as ever and was motoring well last year, but we can't afford the risk of playing 50 mins + with 14 (like last Sunday), because there's no way the likes of Dublin or Tyrone won't exploit it.

I have no problem with Tomas at all. Undoubtedly the best WB of all time IMO, and better in the last 18 months than he's ever been.

There's no argument that he's always been a scamp on the pitch either though - and I don't think that's a particularly big deal either fwiw - but people trying to let on that it's not how he's always been and is a sign he's finished or anything like that is nonsense.

homerjay2005

anybody in tralee last night? sounds like a great game and they just fell short by a point after extra time.

certainly a huge improvement on last year anyway, left themselves too much to do twice, coming first from 5 points down to draw and then from 6 down to get it to a point in the last minute.

for those that dont know, cork won 2-12 to 1-14 after extra time. Eamon Fitz has done a great job with them.

D'Agger

homerjay2005 wrote: »

anybody in tralee last night? sounds like a great game and they just fell short by a point after extra time.

certainly a huge improvement on last year anyway, left themselves too much to do twice, coming first from 5 points down to draw and then from 6 down to get it to a point in the last minute.

for those that dont know, cork won 2-12 to 1-14 after extra time. Eamon Fitz has done a great job with them.

Was just reading a report on it there - first time in quite a while that I wouldn't know many of the Kerry panel.

Would love to have seen the game if it was on in Cork, next year perhaps

ShamoBuc

Back to back defeats to Cork is obviously not a good thing for Kerry but the manner of defeat should be a whole lot easier to take than last years.
Sounded like a cracker of a game. Will there be highlights anywhere?

D'Agger

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Back to back defeats to Cork is obviously not a good thing for Kerry but the manner of defeat should be a whole lot easier to take than last years.
Sounded like a cracker of a game. Will there be highlights anywhere?

True but Kerry haven't really produced at U-21 barring, imo, the best underage team from Kerry in the last 20 years or so winning it a few years back.

A good few of that team are still looking to push on to the Kerry panel now.

keane2097

Decent interview with Dave Moran here for whoever's interested:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/david-moran-i-felt-sick-i-couldnt-eat-i-knew-then-there-was-something-wrong-3078934.html

D'Agger

keane2097 wrote: »

Decent interview with Dave Moran here for whoever's interested:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/david-moran-i-felt-sick-i-couldnt-eat-i-knew-then-there-was-something-wrong-3078934.html

Am I reading it right that he trained on despite feeling a twinge in his knee??

A foolish move if true

keane2097

What are the minors meant to be like this year?

premierstone

keane2097 wrote: »

What are the minors meant to be like this year?

Whatever about the 21's loosing to Cork two years running, surely ye couldnt have Tipp beating ye two years running in Minor, that would be up there with the holocaust!

keane2097

I don't really agree.

ShamoBuc

premierstone wrote: »

Whatever about the 21's loosing to Cork two years running, surely ye couldnt have Tipp beating ye two years running in Minor, that would be up there with the holocaust!

That Tip minor team were full value for wins against BOTH Kerry and Cork.

keane2097

Weren't Kerry beating them heavily at half time in last year's game or am I remembering wrongly?

It's hard to know how good teams are relative to one another when you have huge momentum swings in games.

premierstone

keane2097 wrote: »

Weren't Kerry beating them heavily at half time in last year's game or am I remembering wrongly?

It's hard to know how good teams are relative to one another when you have huge momentum swings in games.

8 points I think it was, yeah I was at the game and tbh Tipp were as ShamboBuc says full value for the win, it was more of a case of Tipp starting slowly and giving Kerry too much respect rather than Kerry being caught by the fightback or having relaxed.

The stupid thing about this weekends game though is that assuming Cork beat Limerick at the same time, then the loosers of Tipp v Kerry will be in a better position that the winners come Saturday night!!

D'Agger

premierstone wrote: »

Whatever about the 21's loosing to Cork two years running, surely ye couldnt have Tipp beating ye two years running in Minor, that would be up there with the holocaust!

Yeah I'd go against this too - that Tipp minor team last year played some great football.

That said, it's not like a Kerry team to fire away a lead like that

premierstone

keane2097 wrote: »

I don't really agree.

ShamoBuc wrote: »

That Tip minor team were full value for wins against BOTH Kerry and Cork.

PaulieC wrote: »

Yeah I'd go against this too - that Tipp minor team last year played some great football.

That said, it's not like a Kerry team to fire away a lead like that

Lads it was all really tounge in cheek, everyone knows that when Tipp put their minds to it they are the best at everything, or the ''Premier'' if you will

keane2097

Surely both teams will go out to win regardless of the permutations?

D'Agger

premierstone wrote: »

Lads it was all really tounge in cheek, everyone knows that when Tipp put their minds to it they are the best at everything, or the ''Premier'' if you will

Or shít the pants like "yellow bellies" :pac:

premierstone

PaulieC wrote: »

Or shít the pants like "yellow bellies" :pac:

Not sure what the good folks of Wexford have to do with it.

Keane Im not so sure, its all well and good to say that but the reality is, say from a Tipp perspective, if we were to win in Tralee we would then have to take on Cork in a winner takes all semi, and having somehow won both of these games you are then faced with the prospect of facing Kerry in the Munster final again.

Whereas put up a good show against Kerry, but ultimately loose, then enter the round robin with Limerick , Clare and Waterford which you would be very strong favourites to emerge from and end up in a Munster Final against one of Kerry and Cork and the looser gets a second chance.

Its certainly not something that would be widely condoned but it would be very very naive to think it hasnt crossed both Kerry and Tipp management teams and more significantly the 30 plus players involved.

keane2097

Yeah obviously it will be on everyone's mind but I just think when push comes to shove, once the ball is thrown in everyone will play at full tilt to win. Team selections are what can swing it but I just don't see either management team being bloody minded enough to really not go for it in the end.

Utterly bizarre situation by the way, beyond a joke.

D'Agger

keane2097 wrote: »

Utterly bizarre situation by the way, beyond a joke.

Word

68Murph68

I'm not that worried by Kerry's lack of success underage.

Underage success in GAA is generally a pretty poor indicator of senior success.

How often have we seen counties have a successful year or three at underage and then have them fail to live up to the hype when it comes to senior : Laois minor footballers, Galway underage hurlers.

While it would be nice to have won a few more titles, I would be more concerned if we weren't producing decent footballers. It also clear that some counties have placed a strong emphasis on strength and gym work, which can reap rewards at underage level (especially minor) while Kerry have by and large ignored this in favour of "footballers". It's a hell of a lot easier to develop a footballer physically later down the line than turn an athlete into a footballer.

There's also the fact that some of the underage management in Kerry over the last while haven't exactly been up to all that much. Naming no names its fair to say the quality of some of the lmanagement on the line, which can be vital at underage, clearly hasnt been of the highest quality.

As against that I've heard very solid reports on Fitzmaurice and his team with the U21s this year and I'll eat my hat if he doesn't end up managing Kerry at some stage down the line.

margio

68Murph68 wrote: »

I'm not that worried by Kerry's lack of success underage.

Underage success in GAA is generally a pretty poor indicator of senior success.

How often have we seen counties have a successful year or three at underage and then have them fail to live up to the hype when it comes to senior : Laois minor footballers, Galway underage hurlers.

While it would be nice to have won a few more titles, I would be more concerned if we weren't producing decent footballers. It also clear that some counties have placed a strong emphasis on strength and gym work, which can reap rewards at underage level (especially minor) while Kerry have by and large ignored this in favour of "footballers". It's a hell of a lot easier to develop a footballer physically later down the line than turn an athlete into a footballer.

There's also the fact that some of the underage management in Kerry over the last while haven't exactly been up to all that much. Naming no names its fair to say the quality of some of the lmanagement on the line, which can be vital at underage, clearly hasnt been of the highest quality.

As against that I've heard very solid reports on Fitzmaurice and his team with the U21s this year and I'll eat my hat if he doesn't end up managing Kerry at some stage down the line.

Totally agree. The last time Kerry won a minor all Ireland was 1993, and throughout the first decade of the 21st century, they competed in most all irelands. In that all ireland minor winning side, none of that team realy made it big, jack Ferriter, James O'Shea, Liam Brosnan, Jerry Murphy floated in and out of the Kerry senior panel over the years,and maybe Mike Frank Russell aswell.(not sure if he was part of the team or not)

ciarriaithuaidh

margio wrote: »

Totally agree. The last time Kerry won a minor all Ireland was 1993, and throughout the first decade of the 21st century, they competed in most all irelands. In that all ireland minor winning side, none of that team realy made it big, jack Ferriter, James O'Shea, Liam Brosnan, Jerry Murphy floated in and out of the Kerry senior panel over the years,and maybe Mike Frank Russell aswell.(not sure if he was part of the team or not)

It was 1994 when we won the last minor title,not 1993.
Your contention that "none of them really made it" doesn't exactly hold water. Barry O'Shea was fullback and had a decent senior career, winning an AI in 1997. Denis O'Dwyer was midfield and also part of the 1997 senior team. Mike Frank & Eamon Fitzmaurice were subs. James O'Shea, Pa O'Sullivan,Charlie McCarthy, Jack Ferriter, Gerry Murphy all played senior at some stage. Brian Murphy emigrated to the US, came back and was sub keeper for Dublin for a few years.
"throughout the first decade of the 21st century, they competed in most all irelands."..we were losing finalists in 2004/2006...not exactly the most competitive in my eyes.
Whatever about minor success and its relationship with success at senior level, I certainly wouldn't be happy with Kerry's recent underage record. We haven't been anywhere near winning an AI at minor for 6 years, 5 years now for U-21 level...but what is far more worrying is that at U-21 level especially the opposition seems to be in better physical shape than even the best Kerry lads. The coaching/development of players in the 16-21 bracket is vital and needs to be continually reviewed and improved. There has been plenty successful schools teams from Kerry and plenty players doing well at Sigerson level for example so the organisation and management has clearly been a problem. We had a situation 2 years ago where nobody wanted the U-21 job for example and it was handed to a man clearly unfit for the task..this led to last years debacle in Páirc ui Rinn. 5 of that team have played Kerry senior already, yet they were annihalated by Cork.
To be fair, at senior level it is fine to bring through even 1/2 players a year from minor/u-21 level, but to maximise the potential of the senior teams down the line, we need to be doing better than we have been doing.

margio

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

It was 1994 when we won the last minor title,not 1993.
Your contention that "none of them really made it" doesn't exactly hold water. Barry O'Shea was fullback and had a decent senior career, winning an AI in 1997. Denis O'Dwyer was midfield and also part of the 1997 senior team. Mike Frank & Eamon Fitzmaurice were subs. James O'Shea, Pa O'Sullivan,Charlie McCarthy, Jack Ferriter, Gerry Murphy all played senior at some stage. Brian Murphy emigrated to the US, came back and was sub keeper for Dublin for a few years.
"throughout the first decade of the 21st century, they competed in most all irelands."..we were losing finalists in 2004/2006...not exactly the most competitive in my eyes.
Whatever about minor success and its relationship with success at senior level, I certainly wouldn't be happy with Kerry's recent underage record. We haven't been anywhere near winning an AI at minor for 6 years, 5 years now for U-21 level...but what is far more worrying is that at U-21 level especially the opposition seems to be in better physical shape than even the best Kerry lads. The coaching/development of players in the 16-21 bracket is vital and needs to be continually reviewed and improved. There has been plenty successful schools teams from Kerry and plenty players doing well at Sigerson level for example so the organisation and management has clearly been a problem. We had a situation 2 years ago where nobody wanted the U-21 job for example and it was handed to a man clearly unfit for the task..this led to last years debacle in Páirc ui Rinn. 5 of that team have played Kerry senior already, yet they were annihalated by Cork.
To be fair, at senior level it is fine to bring through even 1/2 players a year from minor/u-21 level, but to maximise the potential of the senior teams down the line, we need to be doing better than we have been doing.

yeah i know it was 94, that was a mistake, you are what paidi o se meant when he called kerry fans 'animals'. Jesus we can't win every year. That minor win was 18 years ago, and we're still competing at the highest level. Laois as mentioned previously enjoyed great success at minor level, and the great mick o dwyer could only bring them provincial success, nothing more. Colm Cooper didn't win at minor, Declan O'Sullivan didn't, the o'se's didn't., infact most of the Kerry team over the last 10 years haven't tasted minor success. The main thing is, that those who comes in from minor level and developes to a senior player. Kerry can and has been doing that. Minors are all, who you know, not how good a player you are. All this sem and the green crap, Vocational schools don't get a peep.

ciarriaithuaidh

margio wrote: »

yeah i know it was 94, that was a mistake, you are what paidi o se meant when he called kerry fans 'animals'. Jesus we can't win every year. That minor win was 18 years ago, and we're still competing at the highest level. Laois as mentioned previously enjoyed great success at minor level, and the great mick o dwyer could only bring them provincial success, nothing more. Colm Cooper didn't win at minor, Declan O'Sullivan didn't, the o'se's didn't., infact most of the Kerry team over the last 10 years haven't tasted minor success. The main thing is, that those who comes in from minor level and developes to a senior player. Kerry can and has been doing that. Minors are all, who you know, not how good a player you are. All this sem and the green crap, Vocational schools don't get a peep.

:rolleyes: I'm an "animal" for wanting us to win maybe 1 minor/U-21 title every 10 years? Really?
You've missed the point I was trying to make completely. Minor level, fair enough, its nice to have success, but more important to compete.
U-21s however is the real important stepping stone and this is proven over the years. Your example of Laois is a poor one as those players were thrown into senior football straight out of minor and never got a chance to develop properly. Instead, look at all the recent All Ireland winning teams. Kerry 2000,04,06,07,09 - At a guess I would say 8-10 players came through from the U-21 winning teams of 95,96 & 98.
Tyrone, Minor wins in 1998,2001,2004, U-21 winners in 2000,2001, beaten finalists in 2003. Senior titles follow in 2003,05 and 08. most of the the senior players came through those underage teams.
Even the Dublin team of last year has the fingerprints of U-21 team of 2003. Alan Brogan captained that U-21 team I know for sure.

Of the current Kerry senior squad, 6 I think were part of the U-21 winning panel of 2008, would be more if Tommy Walsh and David Moran weren't absent. Is it a coincidence that this team brought through the most players of a single age group since the 1995-98 era? Not to me it isn't. We have been doing ok due to the exceptional players that have been endurably excellent for up to 10 years, but if we want to maintain the standard medium-long term, we need to be doing better at U-21 level for definite.

homerjay2005

our reason for success is every year is that anytime somebody leaves, we are able to replace them. all we need realistically is one player every year to come through and be a big player for us. for example we got maher, barry john, sheehan, gooch, declan, darren, keeley, killian etc etc over the past 10 years coming through and they all still have plenty in the tank. this year looks like being curtain and crowley.

my fear is that the current shortage of young people in the county will mean that conveyor belt is slowing down at the rate its been over the past 10 years.

any news on Tom Sullivan?

thesultan

The problem with Kerry is that their core group of players are on the 25 years of age bracket and older. Very few under that age are established. Would like to see Crowley and Enright (maybe Maguire , haven't seen enough of him) get starting positions. Bohane is always injured and from his cameo against Galway in the rain a few years back has yet to play consistently enough. Barry John Keane is one of the most established younger forwards and himself and O'Leary and maybe O'Donoghue need to get on the forward line with the two O'Sullivan's .Cooper , Galvin and Donaghy ( depending where he is picked)

Mountainlad

Just looked at the Tipp Minor team there, 10 players that start featured in the all-ireland final last year. I'd say it'll be a very good game.

homerjay2005

Minors absolutely hammered by Tipp. depressing times, i dont know much about the minor set up, but from people who do, the team that was picked was poor.

margio

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Minors absolutely hammered by Tipp. depressing times, i dont know much about the minor set up, but from people who do, the team that was picked was poor.

Read the team during the week, and I'm no way surprised by the result. What I noticed (whether it has relevance) is the lack of players from big name clubs. Now I wouldn't be worried about our U21's up, but the minor team of the last two years , I would be fretting some what. Fair play to Tipp though.