DTT/SAT Combo Boxes List 2009

Apogee

@Radioman - do you only get "Now and Next" on the EPG for satellite, or a full 7-epg?

Can you watch terrestrial while recording satellite?

Radio|Man

Apogee wrote: »

@Radioman - do you only get "Now and Next" on the EPG for satellite, or a full 7-epg?

Can you watch terrestrial while recording satellite?

Hi. You can choose either Now and Next or 7 day.

You can watch terrestrial whilst recording satellite and vice versa.

Apogee

If I could tie down a few more things

Could you please post a screengrab of the 7-day epg for one of the sat TV channels?

Can you get a 7-day epg for the satellite radio channels (e.g. BBC R4) or is it only now and next?

Do you possess a Sky subscription or FTV card that could be tested on encypted channels e.g. C4HD?

Skatman

Hi guys, thinking about getting the Technomate TM-6900 HD Combo Super Satellite Receiver, can somebody advise if it's possible to record Sat channels while viewing other Sat channels or even record an Irish DTT channel while viewing a sat channel. or vice versa.

Any help would be grately appreciated. Am going cracy trying to choose a decent Combo Receiver, to get Irish channels at the same time incorporate Sat channels, with the ability to record. Doesn't matter if it's Internal or External HDD.

So far the boxes I have shortlisted are the Technomate, MVision(though I haven't read much on this) as well as the Humax HDR, though i know this does not have a twin tuner to watch DTT channels.

Is there a box out there you can recommend better than this, or are this the best in their price range? Also 1 that can record while you view other channels/ DTT and Sat recoring vice versa.

podgeandrodge

Radio|Man wrote: »

Hi. You can choose either Now and Next or 7 day.

You can watch terrestrial whilst recording satellite and vice versa.

Hi, couple of questions ...

1) What does this alligator box have over the edisons at saortv?

2) Slegs, could you give me a one liner explaining the difference between the edison mini and the vip2?

Are all 3 referred to above reliable for recording to external usb drives (powered and just usb powered?)

Thanks.


edit - Scatman's post above is probably similar to mine in a way - basically looking for overall recommendations.

ps for scatman - you can look at the edisons which are available at http://www.saortv.com/shop/digital-tv-receivers/combo/cat_18.html

Skatman

You see, now that's what throwing a spanner into the works is all about, I had 3 boxes down to a T.

podgeandrodge, comes in with 2 more boxes, alligator box and edisons. The things I like is the fact you can record 1 while viewing another. That pulls me to Alligator immediately, though am still waiting to get a confirmation that TM 6900 Super cannot do this. If it can then your assure am off to get the TM.

So what's the story with the Alligator?

cormacl

slegs wrote: »

Just to add here if people are waiting for an official freesat/DTT combo with merged 7 day guide - it wont happen.

The very best you could hope for is a combo box that has both but they wont be integrated into one guide...

...not true actually. The Dreambox supports an integated EPG.

With integrated Freesat EPG support, my Dreambox DM8000 provides a unified EPG sourced from German sat services, Irish DTT and Freesat UK services. There's no one mode or another.. its all on the same EPG. The EPG data is auto-sourced from known transponders in the 28.2 set. Other than toggling a menu option from disabled to enabled, there is no freaky config or hacking to do.

Behind the scenes, the freesat support just populates the central EPG data with the details it sourced from the Freesat EPG feed. This is what makes it a seamless experience. You can see the EPG data directly from a single service or in grid form.

I do of course need to remind people of the hefty 1000 Euro cost for one of these receivers with a DTT tuner added to the two built-in DVB-S2 tuners. So it is going to be well beyond many budgets. It is an excellent receiver however and rock solid in terms of performance and stability.

There are some cheaper but near-equivalents in the form of the Qbox that use Enigma2 and vu+ and probably more. But I'm not sure where the various image teams are WRT these boxes. Features such as Freesat EPG support need to be ported to a variant image of these boxes. That needs traction and user base to happen.

If the majority of combo manufacturers went in the direction of Enigma2, it would open this door for a proper integrated EPG experience for all. But you need good userbases for the receivers in order to get the community-driven mods and custom images built etc.

Skatman

Radio|Man wrote: »

Hi. You can choose either Now and Next or 7 day.

You can watch terrestrial whilst recording satellite and vice versa.

When you say this can be done, is this 7Day EPG on DTT channels or on both Sat and DTT channels all in 1 place?

And is it to edit the channels list to your own liking?

Cheers.

zbluebirdz

Skatman wrote: »

Hi guys, thinking about getting the Technomate TM-6900 HD Combo Super Satellite Receiver, can somebody advise if it's possible to record Sat channels while viewing other Sat channels or even record an Irish DTT channel while viewing a sat channel. or vice versa.

Any help would be grately appreciated. Am going cracy trying to choose a decent Combo Receiver, to get Irish channels at the same time incorporate Sat channels, with the ability to record. Doesn't matter if it's Internal or External HDD.

So far the boxes I have shortlisted are the Technomate, MVision(though I haven't read much on this) as well as the Humax HDR, though i know this does not have a twin tuner to watch DTT channels.

Is there a box out there you can recommend better than this, or are this the best in their price range? Also 1 that can record while you view other channels/ DTT and Sat recoring vice versa.

I have the TM 6900 HD Super + and an Edision Argus Mini.

TM 6900HD Super + will let you record a satellite channel and watch DTT. And vice-versa.

The Argus Mini will not let you record dtt and watch satellite - vice-versa. (just tried it, s/w v: 1.1.40).

As to if you can record a satellite channel and watch another sat channel, yes, but only if both are on the same satellite transponder. (applies to *most* receivers).

There are work arounds in relation to recording/watching multiple satellite channels and dtt channels.
- You will need a receiver that has at least 3 tuners (2 x sat, 1 x dtt), or have two sat/dtt receivers.
- You will also require 2 cables from the dish to the receiver(s).
- One dtt cable is enough (depends on signal strength) - you can run the dtt cable through both receivers (or split it).

For me, the TM6900HD S+ is the better of the two (picture/sound wise). Argus is ok (has better subtitle support).

(PS neither has 7 day epg for satellite channels. both have 7 day epg for dtt channels.)

Skatman

zbluebirdz wrote: »

I have the TM 6900 HD Super + and an Edision Argus Mini.

TM 6900HD Super + will let you record a satellite channel and watch DTT. And vice-versa.

The Argus Mini will not let you record dtt and watch satellite - vice-versa. (just tried it, s/w v: 1.1.40).

As to if you can record a satellite channel and watch another sat channel, yes, but only if both are on the same satellite transponder. (applies to *most* receivers).

There are work arounds in relation to recording/watching multiple satellite channels and dtt channels.
- You will need a receiver that has at least 3 tuners (2 x sat, 1 x dtt), or have two sat/dtt receivers.
- You will also require 2 cables from the dish to the receiver(s).
- One dtt cable is enough (depends on signal strength) - you can run the dtt cable through both receivers (or split it).

For me, the TM6900HD S+ is the better of the two (picture/sound wise). Argus is ok (has better subtitle support).

(PS neither has 7 day epg for satellite channels. both have 7 day epg for dtt channels.)

Thanks alot for the quick reply, can I also ask are you able to set recording for a Sat Channel in advance, say BET, and series link this. or any other Sat channel? If yes, is it easy to do this on the TM Super.

I already like it, as it allows 1 to watch DTT and record Sat, and vice versa. Now the question, is what do you do in recording SAt channels, say i know when the program comes on Sat everyday. Can I set it to record same day everyday?

Also how is the recording of HD channels? as I have come to the conclusion of its the TM Super or the Humax Foxsat PVR. As I believe the Humax has 7day EPG. With Series link functions.(Y/N)

podgeandrodge

zbluebirdz wrote: »

The Argus Mini will not let you record dtt and watch satellite - vice-versa. (just tried it, s/w v: 1.1.40).

According to Slegs at Saortv the Argus Mini does allow you to do so - "Also, new feature allowing watch one tuner while recording from the other - between terrestrial and satellite or vice versa."

There must be a later firmware.

snaps

podgeandrodge wrote: »

According to Slegs at Saortv the Argus Mini does allow you to do so - "Also, new feature allowing watch one tuner while recording from the other - between terrestrial and satellite or vice versa."

There must be a later firmware.

I'm running ILTV1.154 firmware and i cant watch DTT and record satellite or vice versa?

givecredit

This combo coming towards year end might be worth waiting for:

Taken from Joinfreesat site:

"Echostar, owners of Slingmedia have confirmed plans to launch a Freesat+ PVR receiver which will include the Slingbox feature; allowing users to watch their TV from anywhere in the world via the Internet.

The Slingbox product is expected to go on sale by the end of 2010, though prices are yet to be confirmed. There are also thoughts that this device may also include DVB-T2 technology for Freeview.

If you are unfamiliar with how ‘Sling’ works, it essentially allows you to connect to your Internet in the UK, then watch anywhere in the world via a PC device, including smartphones such as Android and iPhone. This includes controlling scheduled recordings, playback of existing records etc.

This will certainly be a very interesting development for the Freesat platform, though we are some what surprised that Freesat have agreed to such technology given it allows access to UK broadcasters channels outside the UK."

slegs

cormacl wrote: »

...not true actually. The Dreambox supports an integated EPG.

With integrated Freesat EPG support, my Dreambox DM8000 provides a unified EPG sourced from German sat services, Irish DTT and Freesat UK services. There's no one mode or another.. its all on the same EPG. The EPG data is auto-sourced from known transponders in the 28.2 set. Other than toggling a menu option from disabled to enabled, there is no freaky config or hacking to do.

Behind the scenes, the freesat support just populates the central EPG data with the details it sourced from the Freesat EPG feed. This is what makes it a seamless experience. You can see the EPG data directly from a single service or in grid form.

I do of course need to remind people of the hefty 1000 Euro cost for one of these receivers with a DTT tuner added to the two built-in DVB-S2 tuners. So it is going to be well beyond many budgets. It is an excellent receiver however and rock solid in terms of performance and stability.

There are some cheaper but near-equivalents in the form of the Qbox that use Enigma2 and vu+ and probably more. But I'm not sure where the various image teams are WRT these boxes. Features such as Freesat EPG support need to be ported to a variant image of these boxes. That needs traction and user base to happen.

If the majority of combo manufacturers went in the direction of Enigma2, it would open this door for a proper integrated EPG experience for all. But you need good userbases for the receivers in order to get the community-driven mods and custom images built etc.

It is true actually. The Dreambox is not an official recipient on the freesat EPG and is one of the linux boxes i referred to that are unofficially riding the freesat EPG which when changed in format needs to be reprogrammed and released for the dreambox images that support it.

not denying that its a neat solution but it is not an official solution supplied from freesat tested software.

slegs

podgeandrodge wrote: »

According to Slegs at Saortv the Argus Mini does allow you to do so - "Also, new feature allowing watch one tuner while recording from the other - between terrestrial and satellite or vice versa."

There must be a later firmware.

Not released yet.

slegs

podgeandrodge wrote: »

2) Slegs, could you give me a one liner explaining the difference between the edison mini and the vip2?

Are all 3 referred to above reliable for recording to external usb drives (powered and just usb powered?)

Thanks.

VIP2 is higher spec with modular (like PCI cards) tuners and a fan. Think the CPU is a small bit higher spec also

slegs

Radio|Man wrote: »

Hi. You can choose either Now and Next or 7 day.

Are you saying this box has a general 7 day guide capability or it does a UK channel 7 day guide?

Is it a linux box and is it running Enigma?

cormacl

slegs wrote: »

It is true actually. The Dreambox is not an official recipient on the freesat EPG and is one of the linux boxes i referred to that are unofficially riding the freesat EPG which when changed in format needs to be reprogrammed and released for the dreambox images that support it.

not denying that its a neat solution but it is not an official solution supplied from freesat tested software.

Ahh.. see the point of the original post. Mode switching between Freesat and non-freesat would be a ****e experience.

Well then the only real way people will meet this goal is to go one of the following routes:

1) unofficial freesat EPG support, as described by myself and already avaiable for Dreambox images, possibly others.
2) Direct decoding of Sky's EPG (seemingly exclusively supported by Nabilosat images for the Dreamboxes but not others including Gemini or Pli)
3) XMLTV feeds to download from the Internet and parse into readable EPG data. (generally a bit taxing on the CPU for the post-processing)

All of the above can be done on Dreamboxes and potentially done on Enigma-variant receivers.

As for Freesat changing the EPG.. its not been done to date and they'd have to pull some serious smarts to do this.

Firstly, they would have to deploy a new EPG feed. then issue OTA updates to switch official boxes to the new EPG and then pull the old version.

Probably a costly thing to do to nobble simple EPG reading. Its not like any encrypted services are being pirated. Also the data being sourced is already available elsewhere. Its just more convenient to read it directly off the data feeds.

Anyway, it would probably be cracked in a few days again. So I don't have any fears in this regard.

Skatman

Hi, guys i thought to my understanding a receiver like the Humax Foxsat HDR, is able to get 7day EPG, even though it's a FreeSat Receiver.

Is this right or am I wrong here? Freesat EPG I mean....

zbluebirdz

Skatman wrote: »

Thanks alot for the quick reply, can I also ask are you able to set recording for a Sat Channel in advance, say BET, and series link this. or any other Sat channel? If yes, is it easy to do this on the TM Super.

I already like it, as it allows 1 to watch DTT and record Sat, and vice versa. Now the question, is what do you do in recording SAt channels, say i know when the program comes on Sat everyday. Can I set it to record same day everyday?

Also how is the recording of HD channels? as I have come to the conclusion of its the TM Super or the Humax Foxsat PVR. As I believe the Humax has 7day EPG. With Series link functions.(Y/N)

TM6900 HD Super +:
==================
Recording style #1: Timer ;
- Once (date/time), Daily, Mon-Fri, Weekly

Recording style #2 - Now & next (via EPG);
- Can make it record a program now, then choose another one to record afterwards

Recording style #3 - "pause & play back" ;
- Until end of program or whatever duration you want

Number of scheduled recordings: 8

Argos Mini:
===========
Recording style #1: Timer;
- Once (date/time), Daily, Weekly, Monthly

Recording style #2 - Now & next (via EPG);
- Can make it record a program now, then choose another one to record afterwards (need to choose the Next first, then choose Now last)

Recording style #3 - "pause & play back" ;
- 1 hour (regardless of program end time)

Number of scheduled recordings: 8

==============

Notes:
1) Argos Mini epg is disabled once a recording starts. - Channel listing is still available (takes 1-3 seconds to load)
2) Series link not available to either receiver. Requires 7 day EPG (I think).
3) HD recordings are fine - there isn't much HD at the moment.
4) TM6900 - You can record two channels on the same transponder and watch the third one. eg: record Film4, Channel 4 and watch More4 +1
5) TM7100 - This is similar to the TM6900, but has extra sat tuner.

==============

re: Humax Foxsat PVR
- This is a FreeSat approved unit.
- According to the reviews, it does series links/recordings.
- This unit does not have a DTT tuner.
- Not too sure if you can watch Irish stations via satellite.

STB

Most Combo boxes allow you to switch from Sat to DTT when recording the other platform.

Most Combo boxes will allow you to record DTT and watch another DTT channel.

Most Combo boxes will alllow you to record a Sat channel and watch another sat channel on the same transponder (limited).

Most Combo boxes will only display Now/next on Sat transponders and 7 days for DTT via EIT.

Most combo boxes have the switching between DTT and Sat whilst recording by default but sometimes things get turned off in firmware upgrades!

Some Linux Combo boxes with Enigma 2 can pull down the 7 day epg from the freesat transponder over the air, some can also be downloaded via the web with a linux application. Enigma is not native to all linux boxes. Most "linux boxes" arent actually native linux and require the underground community to support them.

Coincidentally I know the guy who is selling the Alligators and was talking to him about them last Wednesday night. So will hopefully have one and will post photos next week etc.

Radio|Man

To answer some questions regarding the Alligator.

Sky and Freesat are using MediaHighway EPG, which is not
supported by these units yet. However, they are already implementing
it, so in a new software release, it will be available soon.


Enigma based firmware is not available yet, but hopefully it will be released
soon.

Sky Italia cards are working quite well in these receivers, but as for the FTV card, we couldn’t test it, because we don’t have card in our office.

slegs

Radio|Man wrote: »

To answer some questions regarding the Alligator.

Sky and Freesat are using MediaHighway EPG, which is not
supported by these units yet. However, they are already implementing
it, so in a new software release, it will be available soon.


Enigma based firmware is not available yet, but hopefully it will be released
soon.

Sky Italia cards are working quite well in these receivers, but as for the FTV card, we couldn’t test it, because we don’t have card in our office.

Mediahighway is another EPG altogether...its for European channels. If they are implementing support for MHW EPG it wont cover any UK channels. Sky's EPG is propietry but has been cracked as has the freesat EPG feed.

So this Alligator box is Linux but not Enigma yet and doesn't have a 7 day UK guide. It sounds like it has potential but so do alot of Linux boxes. The Vu+ Duo and upcoming Qbox HD Mini will both run Enigma 2 and therefore are probably a few steps ahead. The Qbox HD mini is a similar price so that will be your main competition.

Sponge Bob

Enigma updates and addons/plugins are non trivial unlike a bog standard firmware flash for ....say .... a Humax or SKY Box. But if you know what a dos prompt is you can probably do it and it is a fantabulous operating system for sat boxes.

watty

In UK Sky uses "openTV" which is open like DDR was Democratic.

Apogee

Radio|Man wrote: »

This is a serious bit of kit available from www.freetv.ie

Solid as a rock.

Great spec. and flawless switching between terrestrial and satellite channels.

Really nice integrated EPG with event record plus PIP.

€199 for a linux box !

@Radioman, any progress on a Freesat or Sky EPG for this receiver?

STB

In order to get 7 day EPG on Sat, Enigma2 has to be loaded. They (RSP are the Underground) havent sucessfully done that yet. Problems with Kernels/Drivers. The teams just arent there. Its a pity.

So it hasnt happened yet. Ultimately whilst they have done it for the Koala I cant see it happening for the Alligator. There is a russian team working compiling an NFI image for the clone of this in the Dobtratech 2000 (NEXT).

Anyone know a good Dreambox programmer who fully understands cross compiling ?

watty

Dreambox is Hobby / hacker system that survives because it's a good platform to contravene PAY-TV encryption.

It's horrendously buggy. I know about cross compiling and programming set-boxes. I don't recommend the Dreambox for people that "just want to watch TV". It's great for hobbyists, even ones only interested in legal TV reception.

I'm fully convinced that there will be almost no market for combo boxes after Public launch of Saorview as Saorsat will be running if Kasat is OK. A Freesat HD sat box is always going to be cheaper and a Saorsat single output LNB will be able to drive 2 to 4 feeds without an amp and any number of rooms with a cheap 950MHz to 1700Mhz amp.

I had Lyngbox and Reelbox combos and had extensive chat with the guy that did enigma port to Reelbox. We customised the Reelbox EPG and menus a bit before I lost interest.

brian ireland

I am trying to follow the advise here but I am getting a little lost. Will This HUMAX FOXSAT-HDR be able to receive Irish digital TV as well as freesat or am I totally not understanding this at all?

Apogee

STB wrote: »

In order to get 7 day EPG on Sat, Enigma2 has to be loaded. They (RSP are the Underground) havent sucessfully done that yet. Problems with Kernels/Drivers. The teams just arent there. Its a pity.

Thanks for info STB. A pity indeed, not a bad price at all.

brian ireland wrote: »

I am trying to follow the advise here but I am getting a little lost. Will This HUMAX FOXSAT-HDR be able to receive Irish digital TV as well as freesat or am I totally not understanding this at all?

No, the Foxsat can only record digital satellite, not digital terrestrial.