Not Animally - The Off Topic Thread

Discodog

Hellrazer wrote: »

Your totally and 100% wrong on this Discodog.

You never even responded to my pm but instead choose to use this thread to once again put me down.

Quote from the pm.

Good job that I didn't if you do not respect the privacy of PM's. I am posting here not about a personal issue but a forum issue.

Hellrazer wrote: »

Im sure that anyone reading this can see from teh content of my last pm to you

I am sure that some people reading this will be horrified that you do not consider PM's to be private.

Hellrazer wrote: »

I choose to leave some of those posts because I feel that they are necessary and I also feel that its probably quite hard for a hunter to come into a forum that is so anti hunting and explain their situatiuon and why they hunt.Its akin to a meat eater going a vegetarian forum and trying to explain themselves.

Whispered has answered this most eloquently.

Manners apply to everyone. People should be given respect.

Hellrazer wrote: »

You started that one.You accused someone again of making wild allegations about you in a personal capacity and anyone with half a brain can see that these posts are against the anti-hunting lobby as a whole and not aimed at you as an individual.When are you going understand that??

I will understand only when posts like this are unacceptable on A&P just as they would be on other Boards fora.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

I support freedom of speech,yours included..Indeed express your views and I will fight to the death for your right to do so.BUT when you try and force therm on others BY ANY MEANS then you are on very thin ice!

It would also be nice if all posters, including moderators, could avoid phrases like "if you had half a brain".

Hellrazer wrote: »

What you want is a forum where your opinion is the only opinion and anyone that opposes that should be cut out of the discussion and probably because their argument is coming across in a civilised way and is not making out hunters to be the big bad wolves of the world.

This is your worse comment to date because you know how wrong it is. Check on the feedback thread & elsewhere where you will see that I totally support & welcome opposing views. You will even find posts where hunters have posted that they respect the way that I present my case.

What I do want & what I believe that we all have a right to, is fairness & that starts with Moderators. You rightly censured me for telling a poster to "attack the post & not the poster". But why did I have to state it in the first place ?. The result was that I got a yellow card & the offending posts were left in place with no warning given.

What I don't want is for all the effort & time that was put in the Feedback forum to be wasted. What is the point in asking for opinions if you ignore them ?.

Hellrazer wrote: »

Actually the problems were worse if you read back through the reported posts forum.They may have been percieved as better only because we didnt punish for as many breaches in the rules which is what we are doing now.

So, as it is OK to post the content of PM's this is what you sent to me on New Years Eve

"Well?
Me again.

Well how do you think the forum is these days?Ive given it enough time now after our last chat.

Personally I think its working fine so Im going to keep being more "hands off" so to speak.

Richie."



If I were one of the other Mods I would feel pretty annoyed that you see yourself as the only one who matters.

Now, if you want, we can go on like this ad infinitum & bore the bottoms off of the other posters. You instigated comment & asked for opinion so you can hardly complain if you have opened Pandora's box.

For a while we had a really good forum & I want it back the way that it was. It doesn't need much moderation, as Seamus has shown, it just needs fair moderation.

Hellrazer

Discodog wrote: »

Good job that I didn't if you do not respect the privacy of PM's. I am posting here not about a personal issue but a forum issue.

Again your wrong.Your pm to me was about a forum issue-well more again to do with the way I mod the forum which is a forum issue.

I am sure that some people reading this will be horrified that you do not consider PM's to be private.

Doubt it because its quite clear to everyone that despite standing up for you you still go off on a mad tangent moaning now about the fact that I posted one sentence of a pm which btw was offering to ease the discomfort that you felt you were under through your percieved notion that everytime someone mentioned "you" in a sentence assumed it was about you personally.

Whispered has answered this most eloquently.

Manners apply to everyone. People should be given respect.

I agree.But there was no where you were disrepected.You hate loosing arguments or discussions and choose to put it down to bad moderating or unfair and biased moderating.

I will understand only when posts like this are unacceptable on A&P just as they would be on other Boards fora.[

Jesus Christ--The posts were not about you but the anti-hunting lobby.Get it into your head.

It would also be nice if all posters, including moderators, could avoid phrases like "if you had half a brain".

Its a saying and Im quite prone to using it.I suggest you get over it.

This is your worse comment to date because you know how wrong it is. Check on the feedback thread & elsewhere where you will see that I totally support & welcome opposing views.

You might support opposing views but in my personal opinion and not a mods one--you only support a varied discussion until you are loosing the debate and then all hell breaks loose..and you then feel that everyone is against you.

You will even find posts where hunters have posted that they respect the way that I present my case.

I dont remember seeing any of them but I `ll agree to disagree on that one.

What I do want & what I believe that we all have a right to, is fairness & that starts with Moderators.

Once again you accuse me of being unfair.I`ll say it again--last week you could have been site banned from boards forever,But you werent.Read into that what you want.If I wanted rid of you I could have said nothing last week and then I wouldnt be arguing with you now.

You rightly censured me for telling a poster to "attack the post & not the poster". But why did I have to state it in the first place ?.

Its not your place to state it at all.If you have a probelm with a post report it.Or so Ive been saying for as long as I can remember.

The result was that I got a yellow card & the offending posts were left in place with no warning given.

What offending posts--oh you mean the one where you percieved that you were being singled out again??Cmon DD oyu need to lighten up a bit.

What I don't want is for all the effort & time that was put in the Feedback forum to be wasted. What is the point in asking for opinions if you ignore them ?.

I dont ignore opinions.Ive taken almost everything on board.What I dont like is being continually told how to mod this forum and to be honest I dont have problems from any other user in this foum only you.Even the regular ones who I thought would be problem users can take a mod warning and leave it at that and some of them would even pm me to apologise.You cant put it down to bad moderating every single time you get an on thread warning.



So, as it is OK to post the content of PM's this is what you sent to me on New Years Eve

"Well?
Me again.

Well how do you think the forum is these days?Ive given it enough time now after our last chat.

Personally I think its working fine so Im going to keep being more "hands off" so to speak.

Richie."[/quote]

Yep and after that the amount of muppetry going on in the forum shot up.So I decided to keep a closer eye on the forum.

If I were one of the other Mods I would feel pretty annoyed that you see yourself as the only one who matters.

Im absolutely stunned by that one--where it came from is another question.Im sure if any of my fellow mods/cmods had a problem with me they would let me know.

I always involve Seamus in issues as you can see from the pm I sent you which was forwarded to himself aswell.But the way it is I dont get involved if Seamus has an issue that hes dealing with and Im assuming its the same for him.

Now, if you want, we can go on like this ad infinitum & bore the bottoms off of the other posters. You instigated comment & asked for opinion so you can hardly complain if you have opened Pandora's box.

Pandoras box?Its not me that opened it--its your continuing remarks about the way this forum is moderated that started this way back when other moderators tried explaining to you aswell and just gave up on it.

For a while we had a really good forum & I want it back the way that it was. It doesn't need much moderation, as Seamus has shown, it just needs fair moderation.

Theres plenty of forums on the internet for you to use.Feel free to try them out for a bit.I think you`ll find that they are moderated a lot more than here.

This forum does need a lot of moderation otherwise the place would just go nuts.

g'em

Hi folks, Hellrazer asked me to take a look at this thread as things seemed to be getting a little bit heated. I can't disagree with that.

Just for your own sakes could I suggest that in future if you have Feedback about the forum Moderation that you contact the Mods directly via PM or request that a dedicated Feedback thread is set up - Off-Topic threads are usually a fantastically beneficially addition to a forum and it's a shame to see them get bogged down with politics from elsewhere. A lot of what's being said here could and should have been said by PM.

Mods are perfectly entitled to have their own view on things, and as long as they aren't pushing an agenda by hiding by their bold names they are absolutely in their rights to be able to post those opinions. I don't see anything to suggest that Hellrazer was not doing his Moderating job properly, and given the volume of posts and traffic in this forum I think all of the Mods here should be commended for their brilliant work.

Not all users and Mods are going to get along all the time, that's a given, but when issues of long-ago are dragged into current discussions it makes for very murky waters indeed and makes it difficult to gain clarity on current requests.

If a user has any issue with a Mod you should always feel free to contact that Mod directly. If the Mod or the user feels that a PM discussion is going nowhere you can ask a CMod to take a look.

Discodog, FreudianSlippers has explained the boards.ie stance on any threat of legal action very well, I'd request that you take heed of it.

But for now folks I'd suggest taking a step back, start a dedicated Feedback thread if warranted and keep the discussions in it current and on topic. And don't forget, Mods are volunteers, we have lives too, if requests for stickies/ forum overhauls are made every effort will be made to meet them but you have to give us some time

seamus

Thanks g'em.

Just to remark on the below point;

Hellrazer wrote: »

I always involve Seamus in issues as you can see from the pm I sent you which was forwarded to himself aswell.But the way it is I dont get involved if Seamus has an issue that hes dealing with and Im assuming its the same for him.

This is pretty much how we operate. I know from past experience that having more than one mod dealing with a specific issue usually just makes things worse.

While I might dip in and out of something, if someone feels that an additional mod's input is warranted (be that at the request of the mod or a poster), please PM that/an other mod and ask them to dip in. Otherwise I'm going to assume that everyone has a handle on it and is happy with the discussion, therefore it does not require my input.

Hellrazer

Gem,

Thanks for your reply to this.Will take on board what you`re saying.

Richie

Whispered

I can see the need for Gem to comment but in fairness we were instructed to post in this thread by the mods re forum issues when the feedback thread was closed.

if you have Feedback about the forum Moderation that you contact the Mods directly via PM or request that a dedicated Feedback thread is set up

I don't think it should have become a place where the mods have to defend themselves though.

if requests for stickies/ forum overhauls are made every effort will be made to meet them but you have to give us some time

I didn't realise my asking about the FAQ's was an issue. Both mods agreed that it was a good idea and could make life easier, by allowing people direct posters to the FAQ's. Have I annoyed HR and Seamus by asking about these? If so I apologise, I didn't realised it was an issue or I was being pushy with it.

Just while I'm on the subject - is it ok to start the FAQ thread? And if I do can it be edited and cleaned up when we have enough info? I'd be happy to do it myself and I'm sure other forum members would too.

I can start the thread, let it run its course and then if I (or a mod or another member) takes the main bits of info, put them into an easily readable format?

seamus

Whispered wrote: »

I can start the thread, let it run its course and then if I (or a mod or another member) takes the main bits of info, put them into an easily readable format?

This would be ideal
No, you haven't been annoying us asking about the FAQs, but I think 5 or 6 people have asked at this stage, and I think my answer was the same to everyone.

FAQs are a pain in the ass; everyone wants one, but no-one wants to have to write it.

If you think of a topic, such as "What to look for when buying a dog" and start a thread on that basis, then we can compile the responses into the first post in the thread and stick it in the FAQ.

ppink

Just a little query from me relating to the "bitch in heat" thread but I am kinda afraid to post in there again;)

so OP asks a question and we are to direct answer OP only and not "discuss" the query...is that right? Are we supposed to not discuss other peoples responses to the original question?
I see that HR says there were loads of reported posts on that thread and I would really prefer to know if my posts were among that, will you pm me if thats the case?
It seems like OP and a few others were not happy in that thread and I am struggling to see why to be honest, surely it is all about discussion?:)

Hellrazer

ppink wrote: »

Just a little query from me relating to the "bitch in heat" thread but I am kinda afraid to post in there again;)

so OP asks a question and we are to direct answer OP only and not "discuss" the query...is that right?

Its the way Id prefer it but its never going to happen now is it?

There are some users who in my opinion use every single opportunity to get the whole "get a rescue dog" into any thread that it could be brought up in.Its annoying and off topic in certain threads like this one.

Are we supposed to not discuss other peoples responses to the original question?

Ok heres the problem and something that I comntinually go on about and thats the issue of people not reporting posts.That thread went off topic on the first page and to be totally honest if users had reported the first off topic post then we wouldnt be discussing that here.Instead people choose to argue with off topic posters and even one user was called a "troll"
If you feel its trolling--report it,dont argue with it or respond.

I see that HR says there were loads of reported posts on that thread and I would really prefer to know if my posts were among that, will you pm me if thats the case?

Dont worry about that.

It seems like OP and a few others were not happy in that thread and I am struggling to see why to be honest, surely it is all about discussion?:)

It is about discussion but the OP in my opinion felt overwhelmed with the way the thread went and as a new poster I can understand that.

Whispered

Hellrazer wrote: »

It is about discussion but the OP in my opinion felt overwhelmed with the way the thread went and as a new poster I can understand that.

Absolutely 100% agree, however, I want to bring up again that there was a poster doing the whole "as usual in this forum" and "that's the problem with this forum" type posts which were once again not commented on when a mod came in to restore order.

For the most part it seems this type of posting; only to complain about other posters/ the forum in general is being ignored.

Surely, posting in a thread to give out and not give advice is off topic and as unhelpful to the OP as the post they waded in to moan about? Can a mod clarify if this is allowed?

And I am absolutely disgusted by the way the thread has gone since in the last few posts. Personal comments etc it makes for some very uncomfortable reading.

lrushe

I have to agree. My post in the thread (post no. 69) basically just summed up posts 1-7 in that thread because I thought people saying the OP got no help was wrong. Had the thread stopped after post no. 7 the OP would have walked away with some info and the thread wouldn't have decended into the diaster it did. My 2 cents worth!

ppink

If I post on a forum to get advice about painting a wall say. I will get someone saying the best way is with a roller, someone saying from their experience a paintbrush and someone else spraying. So what we are now saying is that each should give their view ot me but not discuss the merits of any with each other?
Even in a professional environment people will differ and discuss the merits.

Like with thie bitch in heat.....some folks have experience in breeding, others in rescue of unwanted pups others like me have a breed that suffers hugely as a result of people breeding for the sake of it. If I had 2 cents for every time someone wanted my dog with their bitch or a pup from my almost disabled bitch..........that is what prompts me to reply but I guess I should have thought twice about it.
I did not feel the need to report any posts on that thread as I took it that it was an opinion, different to mine.

TechnoPool

http://www.killsometime.com/videos/6398/Dogs-Are-Awesome-Too

dogs are awesome

ISDW

Does anyone else have the issue on API that when I come into this section, I usually have to click on a thread, then back to the main menu before any new posts show up on other threads. It doesn't happen in other areas of boards, just API.

Cherry Blossom

ISDW wrote: »

Does anyone else have the issue on API that when I come into this section, I usually have to click on a thread, then back to the main menu before any new posts show up on other threads. It doesn't happen in other areas of boards, just API.

Do you mean if you use the back arrow button? This takes you to pages you viewed as they were at the time you viewed them. If you press F5 the page you are on now will reload with all the new posts on.

In other news, what is the current status of the breeding/buying/rescuing a dog FAQ thread. Puppy acquiring season is here now, if it's any longer it'll be too late to be of much use until christmas again.

ISDW

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Do you mean if you use the back arrow button? This takes you to pages you viewed as they were at the time you viewed them. If you press F5 the page you are on now will reload with all the new posts on.

In other news, what is the current status of the breeding/buying/rescuing a dog FAQ thread. Puppy acquiring season is here now, if it's any longer it'll be too late to be of much use until christmas again.

No, I have API in my favourites, so when I click on it, it brings me in here, to the API menu but it doesn't show any new posts until I click on a thread, then go back to the main API menu.

Cherry Blossom

ISDW wrote: »

No, I have API in my favourites, so when I click on it, it brings me in here, to the API menu but it doesn't show any new posts until I click on a thread, then go back to the main API menu.

Oh, thats wierd

ISDW

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Oh, thats wierd

:DYep. OK, must just be me then, or I'll blame the pc

seamus

ISDW wrote: »

:DYep. OK, must just be me then, or I'll blame the pc

It's the PC. I can be nerdy about it, but with my tech support hat on, as long as F5 sorts it, there's no major problem. Sorry

If I remember while I'm on the computer it'll take five minutes to show screenshots, but for the moment you'll have to put up with it!

ISDW

seamus wrote: »

It's the PC. I can be nerdy about it, but with my tech support hat on, as long as F5 sorts it, there's no major problem. Sorry

If I remember while I'm on the computer it'll take five minutes to show screenshots, but for the moment you'll have to put up with it!

No Seamus, F5 doesn't sort it. Its not a big issue, its just weird that its only in API.

Whispered

Is there anything the mods can do about posters who post simply to complain and not contribute - it's getting pretty sickening having certain people posting things like "that's the problem with ......." and not actually adding their own opinion beyond their poor view of this forum and the people who post in it.

Discodog

Hellrazer wrote: »

Now mod time.
As for the Wolfe Tones and others view that the op is being lectured--I have to agree.On the very first page of this thread the OP was told that she should never have a pet--again a user gets hammered for asking for advice.At least 5 users told her she isnt suitable for a pet.How do you lot know her exact circumstances?
How can you keep saying that someone isnt suitable to own a pet when you know nothing about her?

The family dynamic could be ideally suited for a pet and then again it may not but its not for the animal welfare brigade to keep judging people on this forum.

I understand completely where you are coming from but now that you`ve slated this user I feel that instead of getting advice on how to keep whatever they choose in the proper manner they may now head off to a dodgy petshop,buy this pet and if in the future they have an issue regarding its upkeep they wont come back here looking for advice because of this thread.

The people involved in animal welfare need to realise that sometimes people may make mistakes in buying a dog / cat / whatever even if in your opinion they may not be suited for a owning a pet and when they come looking for advice,instead of slating them over a mistake thats already been made could you not help them out?

People have based their assumptions on the OP's suitability to have a pet based on the information that they provided. We are not clairvoyant. If people have got it wrong then it's up to the OP to correct it.

This basic principle applies throughout the whole of Boards. If I were to post that I keep getting looked at for swearing at people I would rightly be criticised. Whereas if I said that I suffered from Touretts (which I don't) no one would criticise.

There is a difference between a mistake that is made because of unexpected circumstances & one that results from not thinking or researching. The vast majority of posts in A&P offer good advice.

Just to add that the driving people away argument applies equally to all the incredibly knowledgeable people who give up valuable time to offer advice. If they also have to be mind readers & social workers they might decide that offering advice isn't worth the grief. I suspect that many already have & now rarely frequent the board.

Whispered

Glad to see you post in the thread - I stayed out of it because it's an issue I'm divided on. OP however specified she wanted a pet to be left outside without much interaction. And I think this is what people mainly reacted to.

Can I suggest that if it's the same people causing the same problems a few PM'd warnings maybe?

Also want to point out that because someone has a strong opinion on animal welfare it doesn't mean they are involved in animal welfare. I do know in the context you used it you meant the people who were on the thread, but it leaves people who ARE involved in welfare but resist opinion ramming to be open to the same "thats the problem...." comments when they do give a well formed or balanced opinion. It could be the fairest post in the world, but because of the concept of the "animal welfare brigade" it will get shot down.

Speaking of which - when someone pops in saying how terrible the forum is or how awful the people who post in it is - can they be reported as off topic, or baiting posts? How many times I've been pissed off seeing the same old "Oh all of you regulars...." crap. There are many many regulars who enjoy the forum and try to give good advice. It's unfair that a poster can come in and insult everyone in one fell sweep.

Fluorescence

Hellrazer wrote:

As for the Wolfe Tones and others view that the op is being lectured--I have to agree.On the very first page of this thread the OP was told that she should never have a pet--again a user gets hammered for asking for advice.At least 5 users told her she isnt suitable for a pet.How do you lot know her exact circumstances?
How can you keep saying that someone isnt suitable to own a pet when you know nothing about her?

The family dynamic could be ideally suited for a pet and then again it may not but its not for the animal welfare brigade to keep judging people on this forum.

Personally, I didn't see lecturing on that thread. I saw people giving genuine advice based on the information given by the OP. She doesn't like animals, and neither does the eldest child. She wants a pet that can ideally be left outdoors, that doesn't smell, and that can be left alone for long stretches during the day. She asked for suggestions, and people suggested either not getting a pet until the younger kids were a bit older and could handle more responsibility or getting something low maintenance like fish or small lizards. People also gave practical reasons as to why rabbits are not a feasible addition to the household as the OP described it. As pets, they don't fit the criteria the OP herself set out in her post.

I was also a bit dismayed as a non-regular to this forum to see people's neutral-toned advice being shot down as the worthless ramblings of people who get riled up over nothing.

boomerang

fluorescence wrote: »

I was also a bit dismayed as a non-regular to this forum to see people's neutral-toned advice being shot down as the worthless ramblings of people who get riled up over nothing.

Same here. I may be one of the five people accused of judging, slating, hammering and lecturing the OP. If there is a persistent problem with the tone of one or two members' posts, then I think the mods should deal directly with the people involved. It's got to the point where other posters' good advice in a thread is cast aside because of the tone of some posters. Threads are getting derailed because of it.

The op got some good advice from various posters that was well considered. Personally I make a conscious effort to be neutral in my advice; harranguing people is counter-productive.

Whispered

boomerang wrote: »

If there is a persistent problem with the tone of one or two members' posts, then I think the mods should deal directly with the people involved. It's got to the point where other posters' good advice in a thread is cast aside because of the tone of some posters. Threads are getting derailed because of it.

+100

This is exactly what I was trying to say. Boomerang said it much more eloquently

Hellrazer

boomerang wrote: »

The op got some good advice from various posters that was well considered. Personally I make a conscious effort to be neutral in my advice; harranguing people is counter-productive.

Im glad to see that someone understands where Im coming from.That one sentence sums up my entire problem with some users who continually drag threads off topic by not answering what the OP is asking.

ppink

Hellrazer wrote: »

Im glad to see that someone understands where Im coming from.That one sentence sums up my entire problem with some users who continually drag threads off topic by not answering what the OP is asking.

and funnily enough one of the first posters in that thread to start accusing people of lecturing did exactly this.......not answering OP question at all but replied continuously to have a go at other posters.

Hellrazer perhaps you could show us in posts 2 to 13 where the lecturing was as genuinely I do not see it. Post 14 was by OP who at that point accused people of lecturing and it was after that when people replied differently, which to be honest I see happening even in the personal issues forum.

Fluorescence

Hellrazer wrote: »

Im glad to see that someone understands where Im coming from.That one sentence sums up my entire problem with some users who continually drag threads off topic by not answering what the OP is asking.

If anything, it was the posters who disagreed with the opinion that the OP should perhaps not get a pet at all who were haranguing and dragging the thread off topic, adding only negative tones to the otherwise neutral-toned thread. I think you might be somewhat biased in this instance because you happened to disagree with those who were suggesting not getting a pet.

Whispered

Hellrazer wrote: »

Im glad to see that someone understands where Im coming from.That one sentence sums up my entire problem with some users who continually drag threads off topic by not answering what the OP is asking.

I don't understand why you are surprised that someone agrees. It's been mentioned before.

So as has been suggested/requested. Could you deal directly with those posters? It would allow posters who monitor their tone to still post their opinion without being disregarded due to the tones of others who may be saying similar things.

Also - how do you feel about the posters who post simply to complain about the forum. I'm often really annoyed at how certain people are allowed to pop into a thread and say things about how "the people in this forum" and "most of the posters here" etc. As a regular poster I can't help but feel I'm being lumped in there. It seems to be a BAD thing if you regularly try to contribute.