Will/Has the recession make people more racist?

Plug

OPENROAD wrote: »

And would you say England for The English, America for the Americans,Australia for the Australians ?

Yes I would.
I know theres a load of Irish expats but the way I look at it is, thats them. nothing to do with me. They chose to leave, Im staying put so I want an Irish Ireland not a pick N' mix like england!

green123

ShooterSF wrote: »

If I could reform asylum laws you would have to justify why the surrounding countries were unsuitable and so on in layers. For example say you're looking to escape persecution in Nigeria. There is Mali Algeria Libya Chad Niger first. Then Spain, Portugal, France, Greece, Sudan, Ethiopia, Egypt all before Ireland should enter your mind.

not yet wrote: »

Could one or more of the bleeding hearts please put a counter argument to the above point.........

still nobody can answer this or wants to answer it, because most of you know that the answer is very simple.
they all must travel through another european country before getting to ireland.
why dont they claim asylum there ?

thelordofcheese wrote: »

because if i'm going to run away from persecution, i'm going to run as far as i fucking can, i'm not going to pop into the country nextdoor.

nonsense, and you know it.
they pick ireland out because they know we are a soft touch and they can abuse the system here

Mena wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, what makes you think that most of not all send a % of their wages home? As an example, I've been in Ireland for eight years now, and not sent a single cent back, as far as I recall.

cop on will you, almost all send money home

OPENROAD

green123 wrote: »

cop on will you, almost all send money home

and is this wrong ?

newmills

Lads,i've worked on construction sites for the past 8 years and in my experience the majority of "foreigners" do send their money home. I have made great friends with some of the guys and they have told me that they and their friends try to send home as much as they can.
I'm not jumping on something here saying it's wrong or right but it was and still is happening. I don't know where we would be today, if an extra 10 or 20% or more of that money stayed in ireland.
A guy told me recently that if we start to marry the good looking polish girls and have kids with them, then the next generation will be the best looking alcoholics in the world!!

OPENROAD

newmills wrote: »

Lads,i've worked on construction sites for the past 8 years and in my experience the majority of "foreigners" do send their money home. I have made great friends with some of the guys and they have told me that they and their friends try to send home as much as they can.
I'm not jumping on something here saying it's wrong or right but it was and still is happening. I don't know where we would be today, if an extra 10 or 20% or more of that money stayed in ireland.
A guy told me recently that if we start to marry the good looking polish girls and have kids with them, then the next generation will be the best looking alcoholics in the world!!

Indeed, but has it not always gone on,the irish were well known for sending money back to ireland.

newmills

Absolutely. Old man worked in england for years to keep us at home. I reckon we sometimes see the foreign lads working hard and maybe forget they have a family back home too!!

The Mighty Ken

Plug wrote: »

Im standing by my guns, the eastern european people have helped fcuk up this country money wise.

'Money wise'? I assume you mean economically. You see, you're completely wrong. For a start, the majority of the time that EU migrant workers came to Ireland, there was an abundance of jobs. Regardless of whether they're sending money back to their homelands or not, they were still contributing positively to the economy by 1) paying income tax and 2) providing for their cost of living while in Ireland. Also, let's try and remember that there are many, many Irish people who don't even do that much. Do you think it would have been better to leave these positions unfilled for the last decade?

Your economic analysis is a joke.

Plug wrote: »

IRELAND FOR THE IRISH!!!

Well, what it's going to boil down to is the 'best man for the job'. This is the best thing that can happen IMO. If there is mass unemployment of Irish people in 12 months time and every Pole has managed to keep their job... you know what you need to do? Pull your socks up and compete instead of sitting around moaning about how the world owes you a living.

thelordofcheese

green123 wrote: »

nonsense, and you know it.
they pick ireland out because they know we are a soft touch and they can abuse the system here

Yup, that's it, everyone of them is a con artist. How clever of you to see that....

green123 wrote: »

cop on will you, almost all send money home

And? it's their money they can do what they damn well please with it.

green123

thelordofcheese wrote: »

Yup, that's it, everyone of them is a con artist. How clever of you to see that....




And? it's their money they can do what they damn well please with it.

why dont they claim asylum in one of the other european countries that they travel through ?
it is more difficult for they to come to ireland, so why do they come here ?

ireland would be better off if the money stayed in ireland.
sending money out does not help this country

The Mighty Ken

green123 wrote: »

why dont they claim asylum in one of the other european countries that they travel through ?
it is more difficult for they to come to ireland, so why do they come here ?

Who are you talking about here exactly? People who come here and don't work with a view to sponging off the state? Absolutely, they shouldn't be allowed in. But I'd be inclined to take that up with my local TD as the government allowed it to happen.

green123 wrote: »

ireland would be better off if the money stayed in ireland.
sending money out does not help this country

So you're saying that EU migrants who come to Ireland to work should have been helping the economy by buying brand new Mercs, going on two or three holidays a year (spending as little as possible while abroad of course) and investing in two or three properties? Well I'm betting they're glad they didn't now. If you want to blame anyone for the economic downturn, you'd want to look a lot closer to home first, buddy.

The bottom line is that, regardless of how much money they're sending home, they are contributing positively to the economy as long as they're paying income tax and living here. They're not obliged to waste their earnings on overpriced Irish luxury items just so the rest of us can continue living the life of Reilly.

the_syco

Yes. It helped Hitler became popular. Blame someone else, and suddenly BINGO, everyone likes you.

thelordofcheese

green123 wrote: »

why dont they claim asylum in one of the other european countries that they travel through ?
it is more difficult for they to come to ireland, so why do they come here ?

If our policies on granting asylum are less harsh than other countries, then i can't blame a genuine asylum seeker for coming here, seeing as if you're asylum is refused you're sent right back where you came from.

regardless, simply going "all asylum seekers are here to scam us" is a terrible basis for any kind immigration policy, especially the one you described.

green123 wrote: »

ireland would be better off if the money stayed in ireland.
sending money out does not help this country

You do realise that you're a hypocrite, right?

Degsy

the_syco wrote: »

Yes. It helped Hitler became popular. Blame someone else, and suddenly BINGO, everyone likes you.

Complete bull.
The reason Hitler came to power was because there was massive unemployment,wartime reparations were crippling what was left of the economy,the country had felt humiliated by the treaty of versailles,people were starving and germany was forced to give up many of its valuable natural resources to pay the bills for the first world war.
The issue of the jews,which i presume you're referring to came a very poor runner up to more pressing matters of the day.
Hitler became popular because he appealed to the ordinary german(he was a country bumpkin from austria) when he promised to set the country back on its feet and restore some national pride.

hey!!!

ya its defo not going to help the racism already here.....but does reccession always have to a constant topic!!??

The Mighty Ken

Degsy wrote: »

he promised to set the country back on its feet and restore some national pride.

And a good job he did too. :eek:

Degsy

The Mighty Ken wrote: »

And a good job he did too. :eek:

Another empire-builder who came unstuck and destroyed his country.
Actually at least some politicians have balls..imagine if FF promised to take back northern ireland by force..thier popularity may just increase!

The Mighty Ken

Degsy wrote: »

imagine if FF promised to take back northern ireland by force..thier popularity may just increase!

Sounds good. Just allow me to get my coat, army boots and hunting rifle and I'll be right with you.

Degsy

The Mighty Ken wrote: »

Sounds good. Just allow me to get my coat, army boots and hunting rifle and I'll be right with you.

Its an age-old political technique from the Romans to the British..when times get tough at home,start a war to take your mind off it.
Biffo..your people demand that you invade Wales!

shorty2009

Biggins wrote: »

Sadly, those that are racist by underlying nature, will use the recession to legitimise their ideology and evoke it onto other trains of thought to justify their continuing bigotry.

Couldnt agree more, seriously in this stage of life or the future whatever u may call it, if we are purposely being discriminative against foreigners regardless of where they came from because of the jobs they obtain we need to get our heads checks. Stats have shown dole, unemployment etc have gone up not because foreigners are taking jobs but because irish people are too freaking lazy to get up off their assess, i know way too many friends blaming other people why they cant get jobs seriously have a small bit of responsibility get a job yourself. i hate to see racism, being brought into the irish economy. we made ourselves this way, we can see ourselves out. noone else, and nonone else is to blame.

papajimsmooth

You are supposed to claim refuge in the first country you arrive in, and for most of these refugees there is no direct flight from there home country to Ireland, they choose to come here because of the benefits ireland offers. I believe that Kunle fellow was a perfect example of this, as when they tried to deport him they had to arrange a special flight out of Ireland as there is usually no direct flight to his home country.

asdasd

Stats have shown dole, unemployment etc have gone up not because foreigners are taking jobs but because irish people are too freaking lazy to get up off their assess, i know way too many friends blaming other people why they cant get jobs seriously have a small bit of responsibility get a job yourself.

Thats a bit harder if there is a larger pool of labour, now isn't it?

There are reasons why they social democracies on the continent did not allow the Eastern Europeans to have working rights ( and probably won't in 2011 either). Labour protection.

Here is a simple economic leason for the open border fanatics.

1) Increasing the labour supply reduces the price of labour.
2) Increasing the demand for housing increases the price of housing, as either rent and mortgage.

result:reduced disposable income for the workers who have to compete ( not - doctors, pharmacists, dentists, consultants, public and civil servants, intellectuals, and journalists). Fun times for capitalists and property owners.

It will certainly be the case that Irish people will lose jobs in this downturn, and Poles will more easily keep them if they pitch lower wages. I mean that has happened already. However in order to bring fairness to this debate I suggest that it should not be, primarily, the low and semi-skilled private sector worker who takes the fall for all time, and I have a modest solution.

All Public sector employees have to compete with immigrants for their jobs. If the immigratns do it cheaper we turf out the public servants, and replace them with cheaper Poles etc.

I hope no "racist" commentary about how some trivial clerical job in the civil service needs English. There are plenty of high-level jobs in the private sphere where immigrants shine.

The second thing we do is remove all the cartels that make it impossible to work here in certain categories ( dentistry etc.).

Immigration - not just an economic system designed to piss on the working poor anymore: could be our slogan.

Either that, or we man the borders.

shorty2009

people will get employed on their experience and knowledge if irish people are not getting employed wat the hell does it say to them. we can all say there are loads of jobs out there and foreigners are coming over to take them, but if irish people were as patriotic as they claim they would have them by now. Where i work the majority of employees who clean the factory are foreign yet loads of my friends are unemployed, they would not even dream about going for a cleaning job. These so called ''foreigners'' are getting paid as much as any irish person, one thing i despise is a pathetic irish 'patriotic' person not going for a job because 1: they are too good for it, 2: because they wont get paid enough ( cuz there are loads of jobs out there) and 3: because they expect someone lesser than them to clean up after them. pathetic is all i can say, how can someone insult someone else from taking a free job, i would if i were them and so would everyone else regardless of nationality.

K-9

Degsy wrote: »

Its YOU who doesnt know the facts.
The fact that something like 38% of nigerians were in receipt of welfare payments was a public talking point a few months back.
Migrant workers who have lost thier jobs(as oppsed to asylum seekers),dont tend to claim benefits,they tend to head off home or somewhere else where there are jobs.
Not only is there not "no welfare fraud"..there's a huge problem with foreign people engaging in it.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/the-welfare-cheaters-who-tried-to-beat-the-system-62263.html

That quotes 7/8 cases, Indo/Mail journalism, nothing to see here, move along!

Degsy wrote:

http://hiberniagirl.blogspot.com/2008/08/nigerian-embassy-in-dublin-says-that.html

You do realise they are quoting the Nigerian Embassy. The Nigeria Govt. is hardly going to say, YES, they are fleeing their country.

Degsy wrote:

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3035&Itemid=38

They where convicted. And?

Degsy wrote:

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=FAJ20080220.xml&Ex=All&Page=2

The big majority of claims where allowed.

Degsy wrote:

UP TO 600 children arrived unaccompanied in Ireland last year in what has
been described as a modern-day slavery racket.

The children arrived as asylum seekers from West Africa, mainly Nigeria,
and immigration officers suspect they are part of a social welfare scam.

The children are then passed around to different people who present them to
the social services to claim child benefit. By pretending to be single
parents, they can claim almost 10 times more from the State than childless
immigrants.

The State pays out e8,000 per year in child benefits and it is suspected
that the children may be used to collect welfare checks for different
people.

That is terrible, the poor children.

K-9

Degsy wrote: »

Its usually people like students and the bewildered who hold those sorts of views,bandying the word "racism" about every couple of minutes and believing the cock and bull stories of con artists from abroad.
The simple fact is that they dont have enough life experience to see through the lies,the cons and the scammers.
When they eventually start work and start paying taxes,they'll begin to care more about what thier money is spent on.

And it's usually Racists who seize on the minority of cases to justify their position.

gurramok wrote: »

Here, happy reading. http://www.baltictu.net/php/news1.php?fn_mode=fullnews&fn_incl=5&fn_id=80

Irish people sent money back for years. That's what happens when you emigrate to support your family.

Multi National companies also send profits back. Bloody immigrants!

newmills wrote: »

Lads,i've worked on construction sites for the past 8 years and in my experience the majority of "foreigners" do send their money home. I have made great friends with some of the guys and they have told me that they and their friends try to send home as much as they can.
I'm not jumping on something here saying it's wrong or right but it was and still is happening. I don't know where we would be today, if an extra 10 or 20% or more of that money stayed in ireland.
A guy told me recently that if we start to marry the good looking polish girls and have kids with them, then the next generation will be the best looking alcoholics in the world!!

newmills wrote: »

Absolutely. Old man worked in england for years to keep us at home. I reckon we sometimes see the foreign lads working hard and maybe forget they have a family back home too!!

Exactly, see the Racists don't see a problem when the Irish do it.

Degsy wrote: »

Another empire-builder who came unstuck and destroyed his country.
Actually at least some politicians have balls..imagine if FF promised to take back northern ireland by force..thier popularity may just increase!

Indeed, when recession hits, stupidity increases.

papajimsmooth wrote: »

You are supposed to claim refuge in the first country you arrive in, and for most of these refugees there is no direct flight from there home country to Ireland, they choose to come here because of the benefits ireland offers. I believe that Kunle fellow was a perfect example of this, as when they tried to deport him they had to arrange a special flight out of Ireland as there is usually no direct flight to his home country.

Just to clear that one up, they do not have to claim refuge in the first country they arrive in.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055439489

gurramok

Seanies32 wrote: »

Irish people sent money back for years. That's what happens when you emigrate to support your family.

So?

I answered a question where a poster said they did not. Billions are being sent home by immigrants from here, it happens everywhere, its not a myth, thats all i proved.

Hagar

On the contrary, I think it has only positive prospects for some members of the community. Negroes for instance, I've had to free several of mine to keep costs down.

Mena

papajimsmooth wrote: »

You are supposed to claim refuge in the first country you arrive in, and for most of these refugees there is no direct flight from there home country to Ireland, they choose to come here because of the benefits ireland offers. I believe that Kunle fellow was a perfect example of this, as when they tried to deport him they had to arrange a special flight out of Ireland as there is usually no direct flight to his home country.

/sigh

I am so tired of this. If you want to argue about immigration and asylum then please get off your collective lazy arses and at least read the legislation that governs these.

The Dublin Regulation covers this. You are not deemed to have entered a country until you pass through immigration, so it is quite easy to get from anywhere on the planet and have Dublin as your first port of call.

I'm fine with people arguing that asylum seekers should be going to other countries first for some valid reason, but at least get the facts straight before making an argument.

K-9

gurramok wrote: »

So?

I answered a question where a poster said they did not. Billions are being sent home by immigrants from here, it happens everywhere, its not a myth, thats all i proved.

Fair enough, no point anybody moaning about it though when Ireland benefited from the exact same thing for years. When men immigrate to get a job they send money back to their family, Shock, Horror!

Mena wrote: »

/sigh

I am so tired of this. If you want to argue about immigration and asylum then please get off your collective lazy arses and at least read the legislation that governs these.

The Dublin Regulation covers this. You are not deemed to have entered a country until you pass through immigration, so it is quite easy to get from anywhere on the planet and have Dublin as your first port of call.

I'm fine with people arguing that asylum seekers should be going to other countries first for some valid reason, but at least get the facts straight before making an argument.

LOL. Most will not bother or else they have an agenda. It's like Gurramok quoting an article on 20% of the Unemployed being Immigrants and wondering why. If he had actually read the article properly, the answers where in it!

gurramok

Seanies32 wrote: »

LOL. Most will not bother or else they have an agenda. It's like Gurramok quoting an article on 20% of the Unemployed being Immigrants and wondering why. If he had actually read the article properly, the answers where in it!

I just hope they are not staying on the dole purposely to avoid going home getting cheaper wages when working in a job in their home country as the dole is alot more here than for work in their home country.
And yes, checks should apply to all Irish and non-Irish to make sure they are not sponging for whatever reason.

K-9

gurramok wrote: »

I just hope they are not staying on the dole purposely to avoid going home getting cheaper wages when working in a job in their home country as the dole is alot more here than for work in their home country.
And yes, checks should apply to all Irish and non-Irish to make sure they are not sponging for whatever reason.

True, still they wouldn't have a lot to send home. They might be waiting a year say, to see if things pick up.

Many are leaving, I think at least 20,000 this year and I'd say the way things are going, far more this year. Also Poland especially is starting to boom and stealing our jobs, like we did to others in the 80/90's.