TII Motorway Service Areas (MSA) Progress Thread

rainbowdash

blackwarrior wrote: »

The thing that's different about motorways in Ireland is the traffic volumes - a fraction of major roads in the UK and Europe. I don't believe that motorway services are viable on most routes here, hence they weren't planned for.

As a taxpayer, I have enough. I'll take the motorways with gratitude; but I'm not subsidising truckers' midnight lattes, people going for leaks or frantic parents trying to change nappies.

And its not just the traffic volumes, most of the journeys will be short, very few taking much over 2 hours so the need to stop will be greatly reduced. I would have thought the existing "services" at Portlaoise "midway" with a 24hr petrol station and 24 hr jacks would be sufficient cover for the whole Dublin - Cork / Limerick routes.

Really all thats needed is a good 24hr garage with toilet facilities, one along each major route.

ardmacha

And Jayuu, I have to agree. I used the Lusk MSA last night. The "pay at pump" was out of Order. So were half the pumps themselves. In the end, I couldnt even pre-pay because the card terminal wasnt working, so I had to get Petrol elsewhere. No cafe or anything open. EUROPEAN STANDARD SERVICES MY ARSE!

Exactly. They seem to have failed to specify a requirement for some reasonable level of service during the night. What I stopped the instructions on the pump said to pay afterwards at the desk, but of course you could not start pumping unless you paid beforehand. I asked the "manager" why he simply didn't change the instructions, he just walked off without providing any explanation.

These services could have a reduced area of operation at night, but they should have had a small seating area, coffee tea etc on sale and a limited range of other goods. Instead the operators seem to run them for their own convenience rather than those of customers and the NRA seem happy to allow them do so.

murpho999

Ok, seeing as the country seems to be full of people now travelling from Cork to Belfast after midnight, can I ask what they did before the motorways existed?

Why are these journeys on safer roads and faster average speeds that greatly shorten journeys now deemed precarious because of lack of service areas?

Before motorways it was the old N roads with varying road quality and no services at night.....how did we manage then?

Seeing as the route Cork-Dublin has been reduced to just over 2 hours why can't a car make that on one tank of petrol and no need to stop for a pee?

Whilst I agree that MSA's are nice to have I strongly feel that they are not absolutely necessary, nor do they mean that we have a bad road network that we should be ashamed of.

Roads in Ireland have come a long way in the last 10 years and I feel we should be proud of them.

The point made earlier about a tourist driving to Cork and would not return because of lack of services is laughable on a few points because:

1) The roads were not built for or predominately used by tourists.
2) Tourists generally don't travel to countries to look at MSA's or judge new roads
3) I have been to countries with worse roads than here but this did not ruin my holiday or make me think less of the country.

Really a case of people just knocking Ireland for the sake of it and grass is greener on the other side......gets very tiresome when you hear it all the time.

Same as people saying we have 3rd world hospitals etc, obvious these people have never been to 3rd world countries!

L1011

There were (and are) 24 hour stations, shops etc in towns. The problem is that only regular drivers generally know where these *are*.

The other thing is that there are a lot of journeys that just didn't exist before. For instance, my parents would always have taken the train to Cork or Galway, they'll drive now.

veryangryman

One thing i get from this argument on how crucial or not the services are is that we can agree on this - the current offline services need better signposting.

For a nominal fee, each one should be allowed to have theirs signposted - not all over the place - the simple brown sign online near the Exit 2KM sign, then after driver takes the exit, signposts.

This is done near J13 Athlone on the M6 (although semi-legally). Maybe im biased as the M6-M4 corridoor is well serviced with..

1) Station at Galway just as you hit the DC exiting city Eastbount
2) Station at Ballinasloe not far from J15 (albeit skirting the town)
3) Station at Ballinasloe near J14
4) Affordmentioned J13 station at Athlone
5) Another near J12
6) Big Apple Green station with numerous other shops at J11
7) Another offline one 500M left of J10
8) Spar shop (no petrol) right at J9
9) Kilmartins unofficial but better than any official service station at J8 - Hotels, petrol, 4 restaurants. 24 hour petrol and packed sandwiches
10) 500M from J6 near Moate
11) Getting offline at Kinnegad allows the selection of petrol stations + Mother Hubbards with the added bonus of skipping the barely advantageous toll
12) M4 official services near Enfield
13) Another 24 hour station near Lucan albeit on wrong side of road for the journey

Beyond that your practially in Dublin (and im sure ive missed numerous others on that list).

As i said above, if there was adequate signage for these (with opening hours on the signs) i would completely say "shag the online services".

A year on from the completion of the M6, i still love the novelty of the ease of journey between Athlone and the 2 cities. While i dont believe in the "Itll do" mentality, we must understand that we could be a hell of a lot worse off

L1011

There's 24hr petrol adjoining J7 and relatively close to J6

Jayuu

I think the NRA went from having no plans to over planning this problem. Having service stations every 60km was way too much. I think a scaled back plan would be helpful.

The M8 station as Cashel is a good point for that road.
As far as I recollect there are plans for a station on the M/N11 as part of the Arklow/Rathnew build assuming it is still going ahead so that covers that route.
If you then had a station at the M7/M9 split that would probably do for both of those roads and would also be an extra station for the M8 route. Failing that an M9 station somewhere just north of Carlow and a M7 station somewhere around Borris-in-Ossary after the M8 split could be considered and that would be enough for those roads.
I'd probably add in one more station on the M6 on the Galway side of Athlone.
I don't think the M3 really merits a station but if you were to have one it should be somewhere between Navan and Kells.

So with somewhere between three or five extra stations you'd have all the motorway routes covered by at least one online station. I really think that would be more than enough.

However I do feel that the 24 hour opening for the current stations is more of an issue. I appreciate that security could be a concern for a station running with minimal staff in a remote enough location but surely some form of extra service could be offered. Even a closed off area with some vending machines might be an option.

Sully

Went into the station on Enfield, just outside Dublin, the other day at about half 9 or so. No place open to get hot food - just whatever was in the shop. Just went into Roscommon town instead in the end. Disapointing tbh.

Brabus

Jayuu wrote: »

Failing that an M9 station somewhere just north of Carlow

AFAIK there are plans for two MSA's on the M9, one near J2 Kilcullen and the other near J8 Kilkenny Link Road.

JupiterKid

There's no need for two MSA locations on the M9. The traffic levels wouldn't justify that.

One MSA somewhere near Carlow would suffice IMO.

I'm also annoyed to hear that the MSAs aren't providing a full 24 hour service. Isn't that half of the point of them in the first place - somewhere to stop and reaful/eat/use the toilet when everywhere else is closed?

The priority for the next MSAs are the M8, M7 and M6 in that order.

Bluetonic

JupiterKid wrote: »

I'm also annoyed to hear that the MSAs aren't providing a full 24 hour service. I

Believe you me if there was a demand which made it commercially viable then they would be open 24/7, but there isn't.

L1011

There are 24hr toilets, accessed externally from the back of the building. Which at least is a minor improvement over the old road facilities.

Jayuu

Brabus wrote: »

AFAIK there are plans for two MSA's on the M9, one near J2 Kilcullen and the other near J8 Kilkenny Link Road.

I wasn't talking about what the plans were. And realistically those plans are probably dead in the water for the next few years. I don't think the M9 justifies two stops.

flazio

There is an Esso station on the east side of Ballinasloe on the old N6 that stayed open 24/7, however soon after the Motorway opened it stopped the overnights.

veryangryman

I dont recall that ever being 24 hour but im open to correction

flazio

I most certainly can correct you, they used to switch off some internal lights but many an end of a 2am cinema shift did I pull in there for a quick mineral before heading home. You could walk in and pick anything from the store yourself. The night shift Gardaí were frequently seen there for coffee so it was always safe enough.

Pete_Cavan

As of today the NRA are seeking archaeological consultants in advance of construction for MSAs on the M6 , M8 and M9 . At least they are progressing to the next stage and it is a step in the right direction. Would it be wishful thinking to suggest the may be ready to go to construction some time next year? Of course the big question is will the funding be available.

Amtmann

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

As of today the NRA are seeking archaeological consultants in advance of construction for MSAs on the M6 , M8 and M9 . At least they are progressing to the next stage and it is a step in the right direction. Would it be wishful thinking to suggest the may be ready to go to construction some time next year? Of course the big question is will the funding be available.

Brilliant news. I think it might even be possible to start construction before the end of the year. Not sure what the time-lag usually is between archaeology and construction though. These MSAs are provided for in the Four-Year Plan and monies are available in 2011/2012 from my reading of the press releases at the time.
The junction 8 McDonalds/Topaz station is proceeding quite quickly now by the way... I think it will open by late April or May.

ongarboy

Tremelo wrote: »

Brilliant news. I think it might even be possible to start construction before the end of the year. Not sure what the time-lag usually is between archaeology and construction though. These MSAs are provided for in the Four-Year Plan and monies are available in 2011/2012 from my reading of the press releases at the time.
The junction 8 McDonalds/Topaz station is proceeding quite quickly now by the way... I think it will open by late April or May.

This is all good news but I wonder why the M7 is being overlooked at this point? If the privately developed Cashel MSS is opening, how come the NRA are prioritising a second MSS for the M8 before anything on the M7? Most long distance M6 travellers travelling to or coming from the east will also have the M4 MSS to avail of whereas there is nothing between Naas and Limerick for fuel unless you really want to drive kms off the M-way. The only food option is if you pull off at Midway foodcourt in Portlaoise. I'm not saying the other MSSs should be delayed but would have been nice to have M7 included in this latest announcement.

Amtmann

ongarboy wrote: »

This is all good news but I wonder why the M7 is being overlooked at this point? If the privately developed Cashel MSS is opening, how come the NRA are prioritising a second MSS for the M8 before anything on the M7? Most long distance M6 travellers travelling to or coming from the east will also have the M4 MSS to avail of whereas there is nothing between Naas and Limerick for fuel unless you really want to drive kms off the M-way. The only food option is if you pull off at Midway foodcourt in Portlaoise. I'm not saying the other MSSs should be delayed but would have been nice to have M7 included in this latest announcement.

I agree - it's bad prioritisation again, well partially anyway. The reason the M7 MSA isn't ready for archaeology as far as I know is because the EIS for the Nenagh and Mountrath service areas haven't been prepared yet. The Cashel MSA will be located 5km south of Junction 6 (Horse and Jockey/Thurles) and will offer a better level of service, I'd imagine, than the McDonalds/Topaz development, which might not even be 24-hr.

I think the M7 needs a service area close to Kildare, but that's not planned. Mountrath and Nenagh in due course, alone with the M9 Kilcullen MSA and the M8 MSA at Kilworth.

L1011

Wrong M6 and M8 ones to progress in my opinon (not that the other M6 one is possible atm) - they're just duplicating existing facilities very close to the road.

M9 one I can see being deathly quiet, but it would be handy.

I'm presuming these are single sided with bridge sites?

Amtmann

MYOB wrote: »

Wrong M6 and M8 ones to progress in my opinon (not that the other M6 one is possible atm) - they're just duplicating existing facilities very close to the road.

M9 one I can see being deathly quiet, but it would be handy.

I'm presuming these are single sided with bridge sites?

The M8 one will be situated off the southbound carriageway only, and will be accessible from the northbound carriageway via slip roads and an overbridge. The EIS for Kilworth hasn't even been started yet as far as I know, though that may change this year.

Pete_Cavan

Tremelo wrote: »

The M8 one will be situated off the southbound carriageway only, and will be accessible from the northbound carriageway via slip roads and an overbridge. The EIS for Kilworth hasn't even been started yet as far as I know, though that may change this year.

Seems like an awful waste to build two service areas at each site, one on either side of the road. They should all be built as one large MSA with a bridge to allow it to serve both side of the road. As most of the bridge is precast concrete and using an imaginative traffic management plan, temporarily diverting the traffic along the slip road up to the MSA while the precast elements are installed. It would probably only take a few days to install the bridge beams and deck and the traffic would only be disrupted for a few hundred metres, would be well worth it as it would save a few million.

Amtmann

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Seems like an awful waste to build two service areas at each site, one on either side of the road. They should all be built as one large MSA with a bridge to allow it to serve both side of the road. As most of the bridge is precast concrete and using an imaginative traffic management plan, temporarily diverting the traffic along the slip road up to the MSA while the precast elements are installed. It would probably only take a few days to install the bridge beams and deck and the traffic would only be disrupted for a few hundred metres, would be well worth it as it would save a few million.

Well like I said, the MSA will only be on one side in the case of the M8 (and I presume the M6 and M9). A bridge will be built much like you suggested, with the works being conducted at night so as to ensure minimal disruption to M8 traffic.

spacetweek

Tremelo wrote: »

yThe junction 8 McDonalds/Topaz station is proceeding quite quickly now by the way... I think it will open by late April or May.

Can I just clarify what the junction 8 development is? Is this on the M8? If so it is not duplicating the proposed Cashel MSA?

Amtmann

spacetweek wrote: »

Can I just clarify what the junction 8 development is? Is this on the M8? If so it is not duplicating the proposed Cashel MSA?

It is a private Topaz-McDonalds development right at J8 of the M8 at Cashel. It will serve the M8, but also Cashel town and its hinterland. McDonalds will draw customers from Cahir and Thurles too. It was given planning permission just before motorway redesignation in '08 and went to construction late last autumn. I don't expect it would be as impressive or as useful as an NRA service area, but yes, it does/will duplicate what's on offer at the Cashel MSA eventually.

pat13wx

Tremelo wrote: »

It is a private Topaz-McDonalds development right at J8 of the M8 at Cashel. It will serve the M8, but also Cashel town and its hinterland. McDonalds will draw customers from Cahir and Thurles too. It was given planning permission just before motorway redesignation in '08 and went to construction late last autumn. I don't expect it would be as impressive or as useful as an NRA service area, but yes, it does/will duplicate what's on offer at the Cashel MSA eventually.

Can't wait!

Soon those of us who use this road very regularly will have a choice of where to top up and eat. Looking forward to this.

Sponge Bob

Yesterdays dailys had details of a compulsory purchase order for the M9 MSA south of Kilcullen. Just about here

medoc

Hi

I was just wondering what is been built at M7 Junction 14 [Monasterevin] southwest bound. Is it a service station of some type. Its under construction for a while now and I was curious as to what it is.

niloc1951

Tremelo wrote: »

Well like I said, the MSA will only be on one side in the case of the M8 (and I presume the M6 and M9). A bridge will be built much like you suggested, with the works being conducted at night so as to ensure minimal disruption to M8 traffic.

Why not copy what is often seen elsewhere in Europe, build the service area in the vicinity of an existing interchange or bridge.