TII Motorway Service Areas (MSA) Progress Thread

Idbatterim

the claim of 300 jobs being created, is that for the opened service station or all of them?

Pete_Cavan

Jayuu wrote: »

Thanks for this! But if this is the case why has it cost €79 million to the taxpayer. Is this for the land and the access roads? If so it seems like an excessive amount.

Im not sure what exactly is included in that €79 million. If it is the cost of the PPP contracts it would include the construction costs of the entire MSA and the access roads but not the cost of the land which the government, I mean taxpayer, would have bought separately through CPOs. That €79 million may include the cost of the CPOed land if it is the total overall cost of the MSAs, the article where you quoted it from does not make it clear if it is the total cost or the cost of PPP. Either way the €79 million the cost to the taxpayer over the life of the PPP contract which usually last for 20-25 years (Im not sure exactly how long it is in this case) so it would also include interest payments over the period of the contract.

Idbatterim wrote: »

the claim of 300 jobs being created, is that for the opened service station or all of them?

Found this http://superstop.ie/Release-Applegreen-creates-300-new-jobs.pdf on the superstop website. It says "A recruitment drive is now underway to fill the 300 full and part-time positions that will be needed to operate the sites." Sites, plural, so I take it it is 300 employed over all of them together.

Chris_5339762

Dismal article by RTE.

First motorway service station opens on M1
listen Wednesday, 15 September 2010 16:20

The country's first motorway service area opened at Lusk on the M1 in Co Dublin today.

300 new jobs are being created in the overall project, which represents an investment of more than €70m on behalf of the SuperStop consortium.

Two more service facilities are due to open shortly - the first at Castlebellingham, Co Louth, which opens in two weeks' time, and the other on the M4 at Enfield in Co Meath, opening in early October.

Along with a picture of the A1 Newry bypass. Well done.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0915/roads.html

jack presley

Stupid rubberneckers!

Had to practically come to a stop on the way into town this morning as I approached the service station on the M1. No accident or anything, just idiots slowing down to have a look. it's a petrol station for God's sake! get a life!!

Rovi

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Dismal article by RTE.



Along with a picture of the A1 Newry bypass. Well done.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0915/roads.html

Just for the permanent record and in case they notice their boo-boo, here's that picture:

Empire o de Sun

Rovi wrote: »

Just for the permanent record and in case they notice their boo-boo, here's that picture:

Looks like the UK has expanded to incorporate the new service area.

Wouldn't be so bad if the picture actually had a service station in it, even if it was a UK one.

Sully

Its changed now. I sent them an email yesterday.

Carawaystick

Had a quick look in the Northbound area at Ballough on the M1.

First the faults-
A minor one but there was no end of motorway regulations signage on entering the station. so stopping and parking is technically illegal and pedestrians aren't allowed.

The card payment at the pump wasn't working - It wasn't signed as not working either

There was a lot of parking before the fuel pumps and little enough after them. I saw a few people walking through the pump area to get to the building. In France, the opposite system applies, no parking before the pumps and plenty of parking after, so no pedestrian/vehicular traffic mixing.

The ATM was out of service

The Eflow terminal to pay one of the M50 tolls was not working. There was no other way to pay the toll in the service area.

one of the three tils wasn't working, so there was a queue to pay. There were 4 cashiers and only 2 tils working.

Also the tills are a long way in from the door -you'ld imagine they'd be at the door to get people to pay and free up the pumps quicker.




The whole area looks pretty good, but It's not as good as it should be.

mackerski

Carawaystick wrote: »

First the faults-
A minor one but there was no end of motorway regulations signage on entering the station. so stopping and parking is technically illegal and pedestrians aren't allowed.

I've never seen a mainline motorway service area anywhere in Europe that posts the end of motorway sign on the entrance to service areas. The UK does use (though possibly not everywhere) a text plate reading "End of Motorway Regulations" but you may find that our legislation doesn't require this.

Carawaystick wrote: »

There was a lot of parking before the fuel pumps and little enough after them. I saw a few people walking through the pump area to get to the building. In France, the opposite system applies, no parking before the pumps and plenty of parking after, so no pedestrian/vehicular traffic mixing.

I can't make sense of that description. Here's a map of the location. The only vehicle parking area of any consequence is after the pumps, with the option for drivers not requiring fuel to bypass the pumps. There is also a single row of parking bays along the front of the building, presumably intended to allow drivers to pull forward from the pumps after fuelling. These too are after the actual pumps.

Carawaystick

All aire de repos and aire de service in France show the end of motorway regulations on entering and restart as you exit


In the link you posted, between the pump symbol and the fork east of it, there is car parking. The spaces are lined perpendicular to the direction of the pumps.
As you face out of the shop, you see the pumps and canopy and then past that there are car parking spaces to your left.

mackerski

Carawaystick wrote: »

All aire de repos and aire de service in France show the end of motorway regulations on entering and restart as you exit

Interesting - I must have overlooked them. Must look out for them next time.

Carawaystick wrote: »

In the link you posted, between the pump symbol and the fork east of it, there is car parking. The spaces are lined perpendicular to the direction of the pumps.
As you face out of the shop, you see the pumps and canopy and then past that there are car parking spaces to your left.

Also interesting - looks like I need a followup survey. I see now what you are saying - not that there aren't good opportunities to park after filling up, but rather, that there is less parking space just beyond the pumps than just before them. Right?

Bluetonic

Carawaystick wrote: »

Also the tills are a long way in from the door -you'ld imagine they'd be at the door to get people to pay and free up the pumps quicker.

As a retailer you want people to spend the most amount of time in your shop, so having the tills where they are makes perfect sense. This way there is more chance of your product been seen.

Freeing up the pumps make little difference as if people need petrol they will wait and as we all know the markup in the shop is significantly more than the markup at the pumps.

Carawaystick

mackerski wrote: »

Interesting - I must have overlooked them. Must look out for them next time.

Also interesting - looks like I need a followup survey. I see now what you are saying - not that there aren't good opportunities to park after filling up, but rather, that there is less parking space just beyond the pumps than just before them. Right?

Yeah, the pumps are close to the buildings, they could have been built back away and more parking provided between the pumps and shop. I don't think it's the safest to have pedestrian traffic on the same road as vehicles, you should park and walk on a path.

Bluetonic, if people are queueing to get fuel regularly, they'll figure out the station 2km up the road at Courtlough mightn't have as much a queue.

jack presley

Carawaystick wrote: »

A minor one but there was no end of motorway regulations signage on entering the station.
.

Am I the only one who isn't surprised by a lack of signs on an Irish road?

Bluetonic

Carawaystick wrote: »

Bluetonic, if people are queueing to get fuel regularly, they'll figure out the station 2km up the road at Courtlough mightn't have as much a queue.

I don't agree as the same setup exists there so how could it be any better? The queues less? It's just as busy and perhaps it's busier due to it's smaller size.

The placement of the tills is simple business management to be honest. Why on earth would you want customers away from your produce?

Amtmann

Out of curiosity, what do they ask people to do in the event that they want fuel and a stop? Do you fill up, get back into your car and park it in a dedicated bay, get out and walk into the complex and pay then?

Bluetonic

Furet wrote: »

Out of curiosity, what do they ask people to do in the event that they want fuel and a stop? Do you fill up, get back into your car and park it in a dedicated bay, get out and walk into the complex and pay then?

Yes there signs up to that effect. They expect you to park in the 'long term' parking area then head in and pay.

I believe the tills can queue the pump charges and pop them out for payment in any order to it doesn't block the system up when some heads off to park.

icdg

mackerski wrote: »

I've never seen a mainline motorway service area anywhere in Europe that posts the end of motorway sign on the entrance to service areas. The UK does use (though possibly not everywhere) a text plate reading "End of Motorway Regulations" but you may find that our legislation doesn't require this.

Our legislation, in fact, doesn't require anything whatsoever in terms of directional signage! The 1997 Regulations repealled all the regulations relating to directional signage still in force (which still referred to the old pre-1977 signs!) while neglecting to replace them!

Is there any wonder our directional signs, despite there being a comprehensive (if outdated) Traffic Signs Manual, are so woeful? There is no legal incentive to put up directional signage (unlike regulatory and warning signage, which ARE legally prescribed) so councils just don't bother. In the UK, TSRGD requires councils to put up directional signage, which is why, despite a nearly identical TSM to here, UK directional signage is just so much better.

Although incidently, apparently one of the reasons the updated TSM is still being delayed is that they want to bring in new Regulations to back it up...

Amtmann

To paraphrase an email I got recently from a senior opposition politician:

"I've expressed my concern to the NRA that they are not progressing a sufficient number of motorway service areas for the motorway infrastructure that currently exists. I told them that I do not accept that a lack of funds within the NRA is an acceptable excuse for not progressing these projects and the response I got was that the private sector has expressed no interest in delivering service stations on a number of the motorway routes.

The reason for this is that the criteria in place for the service stations make it commercially unattractive....[therefore] that criteria should change to get the investment made from the private sector. The idea that the NRA has to finance motorway service areas is an absolute nonsense as far as I’m concerned."

marmurr1916

Furet wrote: »

To paraphrase an email I got recently from a senior opposition politician:

"I've expressed my concern to the NRA that they are not progressing a sufficient number of motorway service areas for the motorway infrastructure that currently exists. I told them that I do not accept that a lack of funds within the NRA is an acceptable excuse for not progressing these projects and the response I got was that the private sector has expressed no interest in delivering service stations on a number of the motorway routes.

The reason for this is that the criteria in place for the service stations make it commercially unattractive....[therefore] that criteria should change to get the investment made from the private sector. The idea that the NRA has to finance motorway service areas is an absolute nonsense as far as I’m concerned."

Seems like the NRA want to keep as much revenue from the MSAs in their hands as possible.

That was probably a good strategy to adopt when the country was flush with money.

Now that the place is broke, they should ditch the criteria that puts potential private investors off and just get the damn things built asap.

In the meantime, they should set up contracts with suitable businesses within 1.6km of motorway exits to act as offline service areas.

In return for meeting minimum standards, the businesses would be signposted from motorways.

I don't see why they couldn't sign 5 year contracts pending the completion of proper MSAs.

Even if the signposts were removed after proper MSAs were built, I think a lot of businesses who've been bypassed by recently built motorways would be delighted to get 5 years of business, especially in the current economic climate.

spacetweek

marmurr1916 wrote: »

In the meantime, they should set up contracts with suitable businesses within 1.6km of motorway exits to act as offline service areas.

In return for meeting minimum standards, the businesses would be signposted from motorways.

I don't see why they couldn't sign 5 year contracts pending the completion of proper MSAs.

Even if the signposts were removed after proper MSAs were built, I think a lot of businesses who've been bypassed by recently built motorways would be delighted to get 5 years of business, especially in the current economic climate.

Well the offline services signage program that they are currently implementing pretty much achieves the exact same thing you're describing.

marmurr1916

spacetweek wrote: »

Well the offline services signage program that they are currently implementing pretty much achieves the exact same thing you're describing.

Didn't know there was one. Do the NRA only put up signs to services that meet minimum standards or to any services that ask them?

csd

There's a sign up at the M4 westbound MSA saying it opens October 6th.

/csd

Bluetonic

Shop fitter wins €500,000 motorway cafe deal
26 September 2010 By Dermot Corrigan

Belfast-based McNicholl Hughes has completed a deal worth €500,000 to install Costa Coffee outlets in six Applegreen motorway service stations, in Dublin, Louth and Meath.

‘‘The Pierse Group is constructing the service stations for the National Roads Authority, and Applegreen will run them," said Mark Hughes, managing director of McNicholl Hughes.

‘‘We priced the work to Pierse in late December, were awarded the contract in springtime and have been working towards it ever since."

McNicholl Hughes is a specialist shop fitting and interior construction company, based in Dunmurray, Belfast.

Hughes established the company in 2000 with his partner Eugene MacNicholl.

‘‘We have done 30 Costa Coffees in Ireland over the last four years," Hughes said.

‘‘These contracts are not quite the same as ordinary construction jobs. A lot comes down to the level of service you can provide. It is all about fast turnarounds and working late nights and weekends."

Two Costa Coffee outlets opened earlier this month in Lusk, Co Dublin, and four more will shortly open in Castlebellingham, Co Louth, and in Enfield, Co Meath.

McNicholl Hughes recently completed a refit of the Molton Brown shop in Dublin’s Dundrum Town Centre, while other customers include Barratts Shoes, Domino’s Pizza and Specsavers.

http://www.sbpost.ie/themarket/shop-fitter-wins-500000-motorway-cafe-deal-51814.html

brian ireland

Castlebellingham sites open tomorrow. Enfield sites open next Wednesday.

996tt

Im happy to say that the NRA have really surprised me with these, they seem to be well thought out and well built with decent food and facilities and cheap petrol.

Chris_5339762

M1 North one was absolutely wedged the other day when I was there.

roosterman71

Fine Gael TD has a go at the NRA on the lack of toilets on the Dublin COrk route

Linky

Pete_Cavan

New park-and-ride is guinea pig
29 August 2010 By Nicola Cooke

Large park-and-ride facilities will be built adjacent to other motorways if the new site at Dunboyne, Co Meath, which opens on Thursday, is a success.

In the first development of its kind in this country, a new rail link will be accessible from the recently-opened M3 motorway from Meath to Dublin. It will have 1,200 free car parking spaces.

Its location is to encourage motorists to avoid driving into Dublin by parking and taking a commuter train to Connolly Station.

An Iarnród Eireann spokeswoman said that other locations like Edgesworthstown and Enfield were ‘‘obvious’’ choices for similar schemes, where exits off motorways lead directly to rail links.

‘‘The new M3 Parkway rail link is the first of its kind in Ireland. There are similar facilities in some other European countries and, once this service is running for a while, we will review it and see if further stations could be developed where there are already existing rail lines," she said.

‘‘Outside Portlaoise, Edgeworthstown and Enfield are obvious choices.

With the development of the new motorway network, there are several possible options on the M4 andM7," she said.

The new Dunboyne town andM3 Parkway stations were built at a cost of €160 million, and trains are scheduled every 30 minutes.

They are on 7.5 kilometres of new track which branches off the Maynooth line at Clonsilla.

Projected passenger numbers for the initial first weeks of services are between 1,000 and 1,500 a day. Services will run to and from the Docklands Station on weekdays, and Connolly Station at weekends.

Came across that article today and the mention of Enfield as a possible location for a P&R got me thinking about the MSA. I think that future MSAs should be combined with P&Rs where possible so the MSA is located beside a rail line and the how thing can be build together under one contract and both MSA and P&R would share the same on/off ramps to the motorway. The stations could be built on short spurs off the main rail line to allow higher frequencies between P&R and city centre. This would also minimise disruption on the main line and would not increase journey times by having to stop at an extra station.

I know it may be a bit late in the day to be thinking about this for the Enfield MSA and I dont know if it is close enough to the rail line to allow this. I think this is something that should be considered when planning future MSAs.

According to the map on the first page of this thread it is planned to have an MSA somewhere around Mountrath on the M7 and the article talks of a P&R at Portlaoise. The motorway crosses the rail line just south of Mountrath so somewhere around there seems like an ideal place for a combined MSA/P&R.

Another place on the M7 could be somewhere around Nenagh, of course this one would be serving Limerick city, not Dublin. Same could be done when building the M20, for to serve Cork. Im sure something could be done on the M7 at Naas, M11 beside Bray, M6 outside Galway and M9 serving Waterford.

If nothing else this can be used to strengthen the case for building more MSAs because it also improves public transport, increases value for money by getting two pieces of infrastructure in one go, etc. It also maximises use of our infrastructure by encouraging people to use both motorways and rail and alleviates congestion in cities.