Evidence

thecommander

starn wrote: »

But Jesus is magic

Dont you like magic ?

Everyone loves magic.

Sofa_King Good

starn wrote: »

Agreed

Your right in this forum anyone can post anything they want.

But this is a thread I have started asking for evidence to substanciate some of the claims.

No if you want I can be a smarty pants as well and post up all diffeent definitons of evidence. But I coldnt be bothered

So unless someone has some evidence to support there claims there is very little point in posting in this thread.
So no know shold be getting there noise out of joint when I ask them to substanciate there claims.

Agreed ?

OK, evidence of a conspiracy in the North In No particular order.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/jun1999/ire-j24.shtml
http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/jun1999/ruc-j26.shtml
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/jan2000/ire-j26.shtml
http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/may1999/ruc-m01.shtml
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/EUR45/026/2000/es/dom-EUR450262000en.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/apr/18/northernireland.guardianleaders
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/apr/18/northernireland.comment
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/apr/17/northernireland.northernireland2
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/apr/12/northernireland.northernireland
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/jun/19/northernireland.rosiecowan
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/jun/14/northernireland.military1
http://www.independent.co.uk/uk/ulster/story.jsp?story=398238
http://www.relativesforjustice.com/publications/Collusion%201990-1994.doc

Sofa_King Good

if your gonna read any of them read the Amnesty Intl one please.

Any by the way can anyone please tell me what trolling is?

starn

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

OK, evidence of a conspiracy in the North In No particular order.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/jun1999/ire-j24.shtml
http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/jun1999/ruc-j26.shtml
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/jan2000/ire-j26.shtml
http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/may1999/ruc-m01.shtml
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/EUR45/026/2000/es/dom-EUR450262000en.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/apr/18/northernireland.guardianleaders
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/apr/18/northernireland.comment
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/apr/17/northernireland.northernireland2
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/apr/12/northernireland.northernireland
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/jun/19/northernireland.rosiecowan
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/jun/14/northernireland.military1
http://www.independent.co.uk/uk/ulster/story.jsp?story=398238
http://www.relativesforjustice.com/publications/Collusion%201990-1994.doc

Ok thank you. Will try and read them tomorrow or sunday. Which is the Amnesty one.

In future please move posts like this and Less Jesus is magic. Thank you

conceited

newspapers is not evidence !!!!!!
We need something concrete you imbosils

Kernel

starn wrote: »

No. Have you read the title of this thread,
Yes I think those posts are absolutly ridiculous
That why I started this thread asking for evidence to support the claims made in them.
With the exception of one other thread I havent posted in any other thread in this forum.

Well, as much as I think this thread is a train wreck, I've gotta ask.. I posted you youtube links of politicians speaking about the New World Order. Do you still maintain the belief that the NWO is not real??

thecommander

Kernel wrote: »

I posted you youtube links of politicians speaking about the New World Order. Do you still maintain the belief that the NWO is not real??

Just becuase they utter the words "New World Order" doesnt mean theres a huge plot. And its mostly commentary thats says it, and not the actual people.

starn

Kernel wrote: »

Well, as much as I think this thread is a train wreck, I've gotta ask.. I posted you youtube links of politicians speaking about the New World Order. Do you still maintain the belief that the NWO is not real??

I havent watched the clips Ive been to besuy Ill have a look later

Sofa_King Good

conceited wrote: »

newspapers is not evidence !!!!!!
We need something concrete you imbosils

It was to support a previous post linking to the third "Stevens Report."

Here is some of it. Here you are, proven conspiracy, job done?

The Stevens Report

Third Report of Inquiry from John Stevens into British security force collusion with loyalist paramilitary killers which led to a number of murders in the Six Counties Published 17 April 2003

1.3 My Enquiries have highlighted collusion, the wilful failure to keep records, the absence of accountability, the withholding of intelligence and evidence, and the extreme of agents being involved in murder. These serious acts and omissions have meant that people have been killed or seriously injured.

4.1 My third Enquiry began on 19th April 1999. It has, in conjunction with my two previous Enquiries been the largest investigation undertaken in the United Kingdom. During the course of these three Enquiries 9,256 statements have been taken, 10,391 documents recorded (totalling over 1 million pages) and 16,194 exhibits seized.

4.6 I have uncovered enough evidence to lead me to believe that the murders of Patrick Finucane and Brian Adam Lambert could have been prevented. I also believe that the RUC investigation of Patrick Finucane's murder should have resulted in the early arrest and detection of his killers.
4.7 I conclude there was collusion in both murders and the circumstances surrounding them. Collusion is evidenced in many ways. This ranges from the wilful failure to keep records, the absence of accountability, the withholding of intelligence and evidence, through to the extreme of agents being involved in murder.
4.8 The failure to keep records or the existence of contradictory accounts can often be perceived as evidence of concealment or malpractice. It limits the opportunity to rebut serious allegations. The absence of accountability allows the acts or omissions of individuals to go undetected. The withholding of information impedes the prevention of crime and the arrest of suspects. The unlawful involvement of agents in murder implies that the security forces sanction killings.
[FONT=&quot]4.9 My three Enquiries have found all these elements of collusion to be present. The co-ordination, dissemination and sharing of intelligence were poor. Informants and agents were allowed to operate without effective control and to participate in terrorist crimes. Nationalists were known to be targeted but were not properly warned or protected. Crucial information was withheld from Senior Investigating Officers. Important evidence was neither exploited nor preserved.[/FONT]

Sofa_King Good

here is one, that couldn't have been proved until the Israeli's admitted it.

The Lavon Affair. http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/CdaArticlePrintPreview/1,2506,L-3065838,00.html#n

My point here is that conspiracies can and do occur.

FrostyJack

I've just read all 9 pages so far back to back, and I don't have a clue what is going on here. I can't understand what the arguement is?

My take is Starn wanted an example of a conspiracy theory that was PROVED true? Am I wrong?

Examples were given were USS Liberty and colusion between UDF and the UK government. Correct?

After this religion (the biggest conspiracy of them all), trolling and debating pointless semantics insue?

starn

Fair is fair this thread is a absolute mess. Insults flying, trolling you its here.

FrostyJack Let me explain why clearly here why I started this thread.

From time to time I look in to the CT forum. For a long time I looked it the same way I looked the Thunderdrome or Cocos nest. As Just a bit of a laugh

Some of the Conspiracys posted here where esaily some of the most ludicrous things Ive ever heard

So you can imagine how shocked to learn that some people really belived some of the rubbish posted here.

So I open this thread looking for reliably evidence from reputible soirces supporting some of the claims mad here.

Your absolutly right when you saw some very real and compelling evidence was posted here.

But none of the evidence relates to any of the conspiracys discussed in this paticular forum. Nothing supporting a NWO or about how evil the Jesuits really are, or how satan holds seat 666 in the euopran council.

If someone can post evidence from reputible source supporting any of these claims. But if they cant surly it must be apparent how ludicrius these claims must sound

Sofa_King Good

OK to try and tenously link all three

The "illuminati" were set up in the 1700's by Adam Weishaupt, who was educated by the Jesuits, who themselves are a secret society. The illuminati were modelled on the Jesuits structure, i.e total obedience to the master. Their (illuminati) expressed goal was "a one world government" otherwise known as the "new world order" (NWO)). Also, it seems they were Lucifer worshipers, influenced by the Judaic Kaballah. Which "if" the EU parliament is an extension of the NWO plan, at least symbolically it "could" be believable that the seat 666 could be reserved for the coming of Satan.

For the record, I don't necessarily believe all this. For example, the Jesuits and the order of the illuminatti were sworn enemies. Weishaupt was run out of Bavaria and was in exile for 45 years. In the Jesuit order it is not blind obedience, but obedience to your own conscience and to god before your superiors.

Perhaps, if you are interested you could oblige me and do your own research to find your evidence. It will all be there, you might even learn something new.

starn

Did you even look at the post above. The reason I started this thread was because I wanted to see what sort of cedible evidence people could provide to back up there theories. So far I have seen none.

If someone has what they belive to be credible evidence and has to problem with anyone questioing it or scrutinising i with a open mind, I really would love to see it.

If not I dont see much point in anyone posting here

The "illuminati" were set up in the 1700's by Adam Weishaupt, who was educated by the Jesuits, who themselves are a secret society. The illuminati were modelled on the Jesuits structure, i.e total obedience to the master. Their (illuminati) expressed goal was "a one world government" otherwise known as the "new world order" (NWO)). Also, it seems they were Lucifer worshipers, influenced by the Judaic Kaballah. Which "if" the EU parliament is an extension of the NWO plan, at least symbolically it "could" be believable that the seat 666 could be reserved for the coming of Satan.

For the record, I don't necessarily believe all this. For example, the Jesuits and the order of the illuminatti were sworn enemies. Weishaupt was run out of Bavaria and was in exile for 45 years. In the Jesuit order it is not blind obedience, but obedience to your own conscience and to god before your superiors.

Perhaps, if you are interested you could oblige me and do your own research to find your evidence. It will all be there, you might even learn something new.

Im sorry but I have zero intrest in wasting my time looking into this, Especially if you dont even belive any of it.

What I would like to look at is credible, scrutinizable evidence that you can provide to back up any of the bits you do belive in

Sofa_King Good

It is really not in contention whether the Ilumunati ever existed, it is if they are still operational and have the same aims today in groups such as the CFR. But as you wish here is a Masonic Lodge's info;
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/illuminati.html

Also, in an Irish context here is a transcript from the "committee of secrets" in the Irish Parliament.
http://www.archive.org/stream/williampittgreat00roseuoft/williampittgreat00roseuoft_djvu.txt

As a matter of interest, Refering to the Illuminati/ United Irishmen:

26 WILLIAM PITT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Pitt,_1st_Earl_of_Chatham [ CH. i "Paris, which had gained enormous power by its network of affiliated clubs. This body again was modelled on the various societies of the Illuminati in Germany, whose organizer, Weis- haupt, summed up his contention in the words: " All their union shall be carried on by the correspondence and visits of the brethren. If we can gain but that point, we shall have succeeded in all we want." l This is why the name Corresponding Society stank in the nostrils of all rulers. It implied a parasitic organiza- tion which, if allowed to grow, would strangle the established Government."

starn

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

It is really not in contention whether the Ilumunati ever existed, it is if they are still operational and have the same aims today in groups such as the CFR. But as you wish here is a Masonic Lodge's info;
http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/illuminati.html

Im sorry I really must be phrasing my question very poorly.

Ive read the link and it discuees the Illuminati in a historical context. At NO point are thy referenced as a modern society or more importantly is evidence of there exsistance offered.

Also, in an Irish context here is a transcript from the "committee of secrets" in the Irish Parliament.
http://www.archive.org/stream/williampittgreat00roseuoft/williampittgreat00roseuoft_djvu.txt

What is the commite of secrets. I very sorry im sure this is fascinating. But this document is absolutly massive. I just dont have time to read it. Where in it should I be lookin. It dosent look like a plain transcript. Is it a book. article, thesis ????

As a matter of interest, Refering to the Illuminati/ United Irishmen:

26 WILLIAM PITT http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Pitt,_1st_Earl_of_Chatham [ CH. i "Paris, which had gained enormous power by its network of affiliated clubs. This body again was modelled on the various societies of the Illuminati in Germany, whose organizer, Weis- haupt, summed up his contention in the words: " All their union shall be carried on by the correspondence and visits of the brethren. If we can gain but that point, we shall have succeeded in all we want." l This is why the name Corresponding Society stank in the nostrils of all rulers. It implied a parasitic organiza- tion which, if allowed to grow, would strangle the established Government."

Where did this come from. None of it appears in the link.

starn

Im sorry guys, At first I thought it was my fault for not phrasing my question properly. But Ive re phrased it and were still going no where.

Im not going to bother posting here again until somethng relevent to my original question is posted.

Sofa in his above post adresses the Illuminati and provides inormation on the society in a historical evidence.

But there is nothing to suggest or support the idea that the organisation still exists or operates.

Ciao

Mahatma coat

you ask for links, then you complain that they are too long, if your not willing to read the links provided I dont see why people should bother replying to you

tell ya what, heres a youtube about Bohemian Grove by Alex Jones

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_PAqT2JZOw

I believe thats fairly current, course you will most likely come back and say that it still dosent fulfil your criteria, but I wouldnt expect any less

starn

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

Also, in an Irish context here is a transcript from the "committee of secrets" in the Irish Parliament.
http://www.archive.org/stream/williampittgreat00roseuoft/williampittgreat00roseuoft_djvu.txt

As a matter of interest, Refering to the Illuminati/ United Irishmen:

Seriously have you looked at the lenght of this article


Mahatma you already know my views on Youtube

Mahatma coat

yeah I have looked at the article, I will give meself afew hour tonight to read it and digest the information contained within.

Sofa_King Good

”Proofs of a Conspiracy” by John Robison, Chapter II, The Illuminati - http://www.sacred-texts.com/sro/pc/pc05.htm

Tried to post this as one post in a different thread and screwed it up. So here is the basics of the edit

Anyways, "From the first account given by Weishaupt, written in exile" re the Illuminati:

“"Rulers who are members must be promoted through the ranks of the Order only in proportion as they acknowledge the goodness of its great object, and manner of procedure. Its object may be said to be the checking the tyranny of princes, nobles, and priests, and establishing an universal equality of condition and of religion”

(background on/and personal correspondences between members seized)

“Weishaupt was the founder in 1776. In 1778 the number of Members was considerably increased, and the Order was fully established. The Members took antique names. Thus Weishaupt took the name of Spartacus, the man who headed the insurrection of slaves, which in Pompey's time kept Rome in terror and uproar for three years. Zwack was called Cato. Knigge was Philo. Bassus was Hannibal. Hertel was Marius. Marquis Constanza was Diomedes. Nicholai, an eminent and learned bookseller in Berlin, and author of several works of reputation, took the name of Lucian, the great scoffer at all religion. Another was Mahomet”

Spartacus to Cato, Feb. 6, 1778.

.” In a council composed of such members we shall labour at the contrivance of means to drive by degrees the enemies of reason and of humanity out of the world, and to establish a peculiar morality and religion fitted for the great Society of mankind.”

The allegory on which I am to found the mysteries of the Higher Orders is the fire-worship of the Magi. We must have some worship, and none is so apposite. LET THERE BE LIGHT, AND THERE SHALL BE LIGHT. This is my motto, and is my fundamental principle.”

No man is fit for our Order who is not a Brutus or a Catiline, and is not ready to go every length.--Tell me how you like this?"

Sofa_King Good

Spartacus to Cato.


“"By this plan we shall direct all mankind. In this manner, and by the simplest means, we shall set all in motion and in flames. The occupations must be so allotted and contrived, that we may, in secret, influence all political transactions."…”But I assure you this is no small affair; a new religion, and a new state-government, which so happily explain one and all of these symbols, and combines them in one degree, You may think that this is my chief work; but I have three other degrees, all different, for my class of higher mysteries, in comparison with which this is but child's play; but these I keep for myself as General.”

Sofa_King Good

Achte Illuminat - "The great strength of our Order lies in its concealment; let it never appear in any place in its own name, but always covered by another name, and another occupation. None is fitter than the three lower degrees of Free Masonry; the public is accustomed to it, expects little from it, and therefore takes little notice of it. Next to this, the form of a learned or literary society is best suited to our purpose, and had Free Masonry not existed, this cover would have been employed; and it may be much more than a cover, it may be a powerful engine in our hands. By establishing reading societies, and subscription libraries, and taking these under our direction, and supplying them through our labours, we may turn the public mind which way we will.”

thecommander

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

”Proofs of a Conspiracy” by John Robison, Chapter II, The Illuminati - http://www.sacred-texts.com/sro/pc/pc05.htm

Tried to post this as one post in a different thread and screwed it up. So here is the basics of the edit

Anyways, "From the first account given by Weishaupt, written in exile" re the Illuminati:

I don't think anyone on here doubts there was a group called the Illuminati, what we are looking for is evidence of there existence now, and that they are controlling government, companies etc.

Sofa_King Good

It was for the benefit of Starn - "Nothing supporting a NWO "

"What I would like to look at is credible, scrutinizable evidence that you can provide to back up any of the bits you do belive in"

“or more importantly is evidence of there exsistance offered”

thecommander

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

It was for the benefit of Starn

ok