Evidence

starn

Kernel wrote: »

Tell him how Watergate would be a load of old ****e except it was proven in the end! Although now the pseudo-skeptics claim that as evidence against other conspiracies being real. Such bad logic... Pseudo skeptics are like the borg, they just assimilate everything into their arguments and dismiss what doesn't fit. An accusation often levelled at conspiracy theorists (often correct too, admittedly).

No I think you have it all wrong. My point is someone always talks. Who tipped off the papers about watergate of collusion of security forces in the North. Whistleblowers talk and point people who can really can do something about thses things in the right direction.

Your part of a interbational conspiracy. You wanna talk. Who do you leak to. A journo at the Washington Post or some 18 year old. Who can put a video on Youtube.

What exactly is a pseudo skepic and how exactly is my logic flawed. I dont rember dimissing anything either

starn

Do you accept now however that they did attack it, does the fact that 'you never heard of it before' suggest that it may have been covered up, do you feel slightly suspicious that someone somewhere conspired to hide the truth

I cant say for definite that it was attacked no. But I cant say for definate it was. Ive never heared of the Ship up until a few hours ago. I cant take it on the word of one person on a internet buttlion board and one web site that it was attacked. Give me a week or two. To look into it more and I can tell you then exactly what I think.

but on to your last point, YOU cant think of a reason, so therefore there isnt one, is that what you are saying?

I cant think of a reason. Thats why I asked the poster if he knew of one. Rember the USS Liberty is completely new to me I have never heared of it up until a couple of hours ago.

conventional wisdom amongst the CT community is that the IDF intended to Sink the Liberty and blame the Arabs with whom they were at war, another Tonkin incident if you will, however once the Liberty managed to get a signal out they had to stop.

Well aside form the CT community have any unbiased jouros or papers looked into this or found any evidence to support your arguement. Liberal whistleblowers within the Isreal goverment or high ranking officails within the american military. They really dont like there troops being killed. A story along the lines of the one your suggesting. Would be the making a jurnalistic carrer for any copy boy sitting in the print room of a newsppaer. Not to mention the increased sales of the paper running it.

what about the other links, it is fairly well documented that members of the British security forces were involved in terrorist activities throughout the troubles in Northern Ireland, it has also been postulated that without their involvement the death toll may have been a lot lower.

If you go back a few posts I think youll find Ive covered this already

starn

Im Sorry Kearnel. Im a little slow when it comes to these things so can you just bear with with and help clear up a few thing

Enter Starn. A man on a mission, the mission, to troll. He brings the_commander, a new user by all accounts as his faithful companion - because if someone agrees with you, that makes your logic even more impervious to rebuke.

What exactly do you mean by that. Ill agree my first post here was quite flippant and Im sorry about that. I can understand why you might be slightly hostile to me. But why the abusive comment about the_commander are you saying that becasue he is only posting a short while he has nothing to add. Finally I would of thought logic makes itself impervious to rebuke.

A man who doesn't believe in a new world order. A man who wants peer reviewed scientific evidence for non-scientific politics [unless you consider sociology, economics and eugenics as sciences] which by definition are not broadcast to the general populace (the profane). But starn is about to start posting outside of the normal realms of boards. Starn has posted on, the conspiracy zone.

Sociology, economics are actually sciences. Economic theories and models are peer reviwed and citated. In fact John Nash who developed game theory and is one of the better known economic nobel laureates is a mathematician. Who submits all his work to peer reviewed journels. All peer reviewed journals are accseible on line. I suspect nexuslexis to be slightly more reliable a sourrse then Youtube. But I could be wrong

I dont quite understand why your brining up Eugenics.

The reason Ive evn read anything on this forum was due to teh thread on the moon landings, Ive seen peer reviewd papers on the geology of moon rocks. But bizzarly a documenty narrated by Neil Morrisy is a more reliable sourse of information. I donk see anything wrong with applying some critical thinking to some of the posts on this forum

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a9Syi12RJo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv5cqh26CC0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bKwH3kJew4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkKbE9qCzQo&feature=related

Check those out for starters. Just because I know you love youtube. Love. K.

I havent looked at youe vidos yet. But will have a lok ath them tomoroow. I found the tone of your post to be over all to be needlesy nasty and mocking. I dont think there was any need for it

Mahatma coat

Kernel, a quick and friendly warning, Attack the Post not the Poster, some of your posts are coming across as hostile, there have been bannins for this already this week

Mahatma coat

eh Starn, you almost had it, when you break a single quote up into paragraphs you have to end wach section with a / so where you were using

you really need to put a / in the second one

ie [ / q u o t e ] but without the spaces

Run_to_da_hills

starn wrote: »

But thats not the type of disccused here. Here we have grandoise plans for world domination or trackin peple with RFID {Why would anyone bother} conspiracys that require hundreds and thosands of people. But yet there is not one scrape of evidence or one credile whistleblower. Not one Iota.

There is a scripture reference to a coded implant required for commercial transactions and thats enough evidence its self to set off alarm bells amongst some CT's.

Mahatma coat

WhaloShi : PM's are just that, Private Messages

they should not be dragged out int the debate without the consent of both parties, I'm off home for the evening but I put a hold on theat post of yours, as I'm not sure what the rules are on it.

I'm sure that either Bonkey or Miju will contact me to clarify the position on these things.

until then I would ask you and the rest of the posters to play by the rules of the CT charter and the general rules of the Board.

Thanks

MC

thecommander

Kernel wrote: »

He brings the_commander, a new user by all accounts as his faithful companion

I suggest you go look at records before you start. Been posting here for alot longer than starn. Cant handle more than 2 people not agreeing with you?

starn

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

There is a scripture reference to a coded implant required for commercial transactions and thats enough evidence its self to set off alarm bells amongst some CT's.

Im not familiar with the line can put post the book and verse or the line of scripture. Thanks

Sofa_King Good

starn wrote: »

Your not cmparing like with like. It was assumed for years by most members of the public that the British Army and RUC where colluding with elements within the RUC. The papers had allegations on this almost eveyweek, from rats with in the paramillitarys. Given the way that the British Army and RUC where targeted by the IRA and its splinter groups its quite understandalby to see how members with in the organisations were so willing to collude.

As side from some posters here and on other web sites I have NEVER seen allegations in any repected Irish or European newspaper alleging that members within the The EU parliment had a secret agenda of a establashing a NWO.

Anyway unless there NWO is to be a province in a global China. There not going to get very far. Im more worried about what China might do then some secret organisation. For which there is not a shread of proof to support its exsistance.

Have none of these NWO people never heared of a death bed confession. Surely someone would of tried to come clean by now. Or are they immortal like Christopher Lambert in Highlander

"Sorry, don't know how to quote properly)As side from some posters here and on other web sites I have NEVER seen allegations in any repected Irish or European newspaper alleging that members within the The EU parliment had a secret agenda of a establashing a NWO.
Hope you consider the Irish Times respected.

See Here
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2002/1002/1033174039982.html

You don't seem to like reading the links so...

"There is widespread concern about the direction in which the European Union is heading. In the Laeken Declaration, agreed a year after Nice, a European constitution is signalled. It considers Europe as a power with a "leading role to play in a new world order", taking action "to deal with trouble spots" around the world and "resolutely doing battle against all violence."Laeken also saw the setting up of the Convention on the Future of Europe. Last May, the EU Commission President, Romano Prodi, introduced the Commission's first submission to that convention. Sweeping new powers are sought for the Commission in an enlarged EU.It proposes a common asylum and immigration policy, a single European legal framework and a European border guard.The Commission seeks the leading role in a Common Foreign and Security Policy which "sets out to safeguard, outside the union's own borders, certain values which are essential to our democracies."

So you know, the Laeken document was a 2001 precursor to the European Constitution, which then became the Lisbon Treaty.

starn

[quote/]
Hope you consider the Irish Times respected.
[/QUOTE]

Ican open the papd because I dont have a online subsciption but it apperars to be a opionion pieces as opposed to a piece of serious investigite jounalism.

When I googled Colm Roddy {the author of the peice} and Irish times. It didnt generate anyother links for storys within the paper by Mr Roddy.

If anything the fact that Mr Roddys opion piece was pulished and the story never followed up {as far as I can see} by any other journo from the Times or Indo, or any other paper as far as I can see. Goes to show how little there is to the story

starn

In fact the only place the only place I can find anything else written by Colm Roddy is on Indymedia

A site well known to have serious censor ship issues.Indymedia describes itself as

The Independent Media Centre Network is a network of collectively run media outlets for the creation of radical, accurate, and passionate tellings of the truth. We work out of a love and inspiration for people who continue to work for a better world, despite corporate media's distortions and unwillingness to cover the efforts to free humanity

The site frequently deletes posts that might contraict a story posted, or by posters who might question the authicity of the articles posted on it.


Does that make Indymedia a part of the NWO.

Why has no one ever posted in this forum{as far as I can tell} about the very clear and verifiable conspiracy within Indymedia to put forward there agenda and delete posts and belittle posters who might question it. A small but very real conspiracy

Sofa_King Good

starn wrote: »

[quote/]
Hope you consider the Irish Times respected.

Ican open the papd because I dont have a online subsciption but it apperars to be a opionion pieces as opposed to a piece of serious investigite jounalism.

When I googled Colm Roddy {the author of the peice} and Irish times. It didnt generate anyother links for storys within the paper by Mr Roddy.

If anything the fact that Mr Roddys opion piece was pulished and the story never followed up {as far as I can see} by any other journo from the Times or Indo, or any other paper as far as I can see. Goes to show how little there is to the story[/quote]

My Apologies, I forgot.


For me, the key point in your last point was "the fact that Mr Roddys opion piece was pulished "

Still though. It was an article in the "respected" Irish Times connecting the EU with the 'New World Order'. So know you've almost seen one.


here ya go, just for you

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2003/1114/breaking69.html

Sofa_King Good

starn wrote: »

In fact the only place the only place I can find anything else written by Colm Roddy is on Indymedia

A site well known to have serious censor ship issues.Indymedia describes itself as

The Independent Media Centre Network is a network of collectively run media outlets for the creation of radical, accurate, and passionate tellings of the truth. We work out of a love and inspiration for people who continue to work for a better world, despite corporate media's distortions and unwillingness to cover the efforts to free humanity

The site frequently deletes posts that might contraict a story posted, or by posters who might question the authicity of the articles posted on it.


Does that make Indymedia a part of the NWO.

Why has no one ever posted in this forum{as far as I can tell} about the very clear and verifiable conspiracy within Indymedia to put forward there agenda and delete posts and belittle posters who might question it. A small but very real conspiracy

ok..."the very clear and verifiable conspiracy within Indymedia"" ... "any evidence provided by reputible sources ie peer reviewed journels as opposed to Youtube, Wikipedia or some blokes web site." ???

Sofa_King Good

Starn, "With the example of the north you looking at independant acts of collusion by indivual and unconneted members of the security servies. "


That's just plain wrong. Did you even read any of the "evidence"?

starn

We can sit here and argue over sematics all day but there is a very big differne between a thourghy reaserced article with refernces and a opinion piece or editorial. Kevin Myers used to publish his Irish Mans diary in the Irish Times. What you have sited in an an opionion peice. With out being able to read the peices of being able to rember that far back. Id imagine it was the case [as they have done recently with the Lisbon treaty] of publishing a number of opionion peices prior to the referemdum.

Without being able to read it I can only assume it furthers the ideology of a NWO. If it had any merit. Why has no one within the paper or any other media outlet pursuded it further.

The only thing it shows is that the Irish Times unlike Indymeidia. Is willing to allow all voices be heard.

You said the key point for you in my privious post was th Mr Roddys opioion piece was publish.

WHY IS THAT THE KEY POINT FOR YOU.

As I have pointed out already Im quite slow and no near as smart as the majority of people posting on boards. Nor am I able to read peoples minds.

So in future can you please qualify any statement along those lines you wish to make.

ie. The key point of your post is ....... because

starn

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

ok..."the very clear and verifiable conspiracy within Indymedia"" ... "any evidence provided by reputible sources ie peer reviewed journels as opposed to Youtube, Wikipedia or some blokes web site." ???

To be honest your being quite pedantic and childish now.

Indymedia selective censorship is quite different to a gobal conspiracy involving hundreds and thosnads of people.
At this stage I honestly think there is very little point replying to your posts. You quitw clearly have a very narrow minded view and are far to willing to even consider anything that might deviate form that. You pick on minutia and technacalities in my post and have failed to address any questions directed at you. While I have been quite happy to answer honestly anything you have asked me.

Im sorry if im coming across as condescending but have added very little since your first post on this thread and have taken the view that you cant possible be wrong and that I can never be right.

starn

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

Starn, "With the example of the north you looking at independant acts of collusion by indivual and unconneted members of the security servies. "


That's just plain wrong. Did you even read any of the "evidence"?

Why is it wrong. Please qualify.

Is it wrong because your never wrong and dont agree with something Ive written or because of something in one of the reports ???

Also SKG unless to start to make qualified posts instead of isolated statements I wont br responding to any more of your posts. Its takes to long to try and figure out what your trying to say

Regards

Starn

Sofa_King Good

starn wrote: »

Why is it wrong. Please qualify.

Is it wrong because your never wrong and dont agree with something Ive written or because of something in one of the reports ???

They key point of this post is that statement "independant acts of collusion by indivual and unconneted members of the security servies" is incorrect on the basis that it was NOT "independant acts of collusion by indivual and unconneted members of the security servies" - FACT

starn

Ah jesus ffs.

WHY IS IN NOT A FACT. YOU TELLING ME ITS NOT A FACT DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE. QUALIFY YOUR STAEMENT YOU NEED TO EXPLAIN WHY ITS NOT A FACT

FACT

Im just going to ignore you from now on unless you qualify your post. You tellin me something is a fact does not make it so

FACT

Ive asked you to qualify your posts three or four times

You have been warned so dont start moaning when I ignore your posts laster

Sofa_King Good

Sorry if I am coming across as a bit arsey, I don't mean to.


However, I don't know why I've upset you so.

This is how we've fallen out as best as I can make out.

Initially you started the thread asking if anyone had any verifiable "evidence" to support any conspiracy

Then on post 11 I put forward the FRU in the North. Jump to post 15 and I supplied, as requested Verifiable evidence, from 3 sources.

You then proceeded dismiss this, without any real validity in my opinion in post 17. Also, here you capitalised, underlined, and in bold stated you had NEVER seen anything in "respected" media regarding "NWO" and the EU.


Which brings us to post 41, where I in turn provided an Irish Times Link connecting both.


Which you then proceed to dismiss, despite the fact that it was again exactly what you were looking for


Correct me if I'm wrong here. But all I've tried to do is provide you with the information you requested? Despite the mocking tone of your initial posts.

starn

Right Im going to go and have amother read of the links you provided regarding the FRU

But regarding this

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

Which brings us to post 41, where I in turn provided an Irish Times Link connecting both.


Which you then proceed to dismiss, despite the fact that it was again exactly what you were looking for

All you have done is provided me with a opionion peice published in a newspaper on the run up to a referendom. The paper didint endorse it or follow it up with a expose

I have absolutly no ide who the other is. The only information I can find on him is on Indymedia. He isnt a established journo or commentator

For all I know he could of been released form the mad house a week before writting the article

If I found a opionion peice in a national newspaper form a completely unknown source sayin that all belivers n NWO have a problem with there brain chemisty leading to intense paranoid schizoprhenia. Would no you be inclined to belive, No I dont think so

The author of that opinion peice[I remind you that is all it is a opinion, which didnt warrent any sort of follow up by ANYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD MEDIA] is not a credible sourse.

Why did no other newspaper invite the author to write about it

Because he allegations are completely UNFOUNDED

Sofa_King Good

starn wrote: »

Right Im going to go and have amother read of the links you provided regarding the FRU

But regarding this




All you have done is provided me with a opionion peice published in a newspaper on the run up to a referendom. The paper didint endorse it or follow it up with a expose

I have absolutly no ide who the other is. The only information I can find on him is on Indymedia. He isnt a established journo or commentator

For all I know he could of been released form the mad house a week before writting the article

If I found a opionion peice in a national newspaper form a completely unknown source sayin that all belivers n NWO have a problem with there brain chemisty leading to intense paranoid schizoprhenia. Would no you be inclined to belive, No I dont think so

The author of that opinion peice[I remind you that is all it is a opinion, which didnt warrent any sort of follow up by ANYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD MEDIA] is not a credible sourse.

Why did no other newspaper invite the author to write about it

Because he allegations are completely UNFOUNDED

FAir enough. I know you probably can't access this again but the main points are:


"Main Points

Issues facing Europe to be discussed at Convention chaired by Valery Giscard d'Estaing.

EU member-states to support international stabilisation force in Afghanistan.
Common definition of terrorist offences; list of terrorist organisations;
European arrest warrant.
Common policy on asylum and immigration as soon as possible.

10 candidate countries expected to be ready to join by 2004: Cyprus, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, the Slovak Republic, the Czech Republic and Slovenia
Palestinian Authority named as Israel's legitimate negotiating partner. "

Here is the IT link anyway: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2001/1217/01121700051.html

My point here is that it was opinion on an EU document, which is quoted in the article. The main points are listed above. You can take it as face value or not,its your choice.

Run_to_da_hills

starn wrote: »

Im not familiar with the line can put post the book and verse or the line of scripture. Thanks

This link should give you a rough idea of the basics,

http://www.666soon.com/markof.htm

WhaLofShi

Why anyone is humouring this guy. He's baiting and just trying to make people look foolish.
Kernel hit the nail on the head. starn and his wingman bring nothing to this forum.

[ignore] starn [/ignore]
[ignore] thecommander[/ignore]

Good luck ladies.

Sofa_King Good

WhaLofShi wrote: »

Why anyone is humouring this guy. He's baiting and just trying to make people look foolish.
Kernel hit the nail on the head. starn and his wingman bring nothing to this forum.

[ignore] starn [/ignore]
[ignore] thecommander[/ignore]

Good luck ladies.

cos its more fun than work and people don't normally respond to me on this.

thecommander

WhaLofShi wrote: »

Good luck ladies.

Bye

bonkey

starn wrote: »

All you have done is provided me with a opionion peice published in a newspaper on the run up to a referendom. The paper didint endorse it or follow it up with a expose

You didn't askfor something endorsed by the paper, or something followed up by an expose.

If your problem is that someone is answering the question you asked, but not providing what you want, then you should consider that the problem may lie in the discrepancy between what you want and what you're asking for, and not what you're asking for and what you receive.

Ask better questions. Get better answers.

bonkey

Mahatma coat wrote: »

WhaloShi : PM's are just that, Private Messages

they should not be dragged out int the debate without the consent of both parties,

I'd agree with that, but more as a point of etiquette/manners, rather than as a rule which has a punishable offence.

Having said that, the post wasn't relevant to the topic and we're losing nothing by leaving it out.

until then I would ask you and the rest of the posters to play by the rules of the CT charter and the general rules of the Board.

I'll second that. It seems to have been forgotten since you posted it.

starn

Sofa_King Good wrote: »

FAir enough. I know you probably can't access this again but the main points are:


"Main Points

Issues facing Europe to be discussed at Convention chaired by Valery Giscard d'Estaing.

EU member-states to support international stabilisation force in Afghanistan.
Common definition of terrorist offences; list of terrorist organisations;
European arrest warrant.
Common policy on asylum and immigration as soon as possible.

10 candidate countries expected to be ready to join by 2004: Cyprus, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, the Slovak Republic, the Czech Republic and Slovenia
Palestinian Authority named as Israel's legitimate negotiating partner. "

Here is the IT link anyway: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2001/1217/01121700051.html

My point here is that it was opinion on an EU document, which is quoted in the article. The main points are listed above. You can take it as face value or not,its your choice.

What problems could you possibly have with ny of this