Garda vs Integra

flyton5

deadwood wrote: »

Sorry for getting back on topic (who, me?).

Reading back there, a few posts enquired why the Helicopter wasn't deployed in this pursuit.
Was this in the vicinity of the airport?

how dare you get back on topic!! maybe the helicopter was being serviced on this particular day.....maybe it was en-route......who knows??

"Alpha Sierra to groung units.....you are being filmed" - Translation "i think he's stopped resisting"

flyton5

Jemmy wrote: »

ok not quite clear, sorry but what is the AGS?

An Garda Siochana....

metman

Might I make a suggestion to AGS management....imagine...having more than one chopper operational at any one time, and even having them based regionally....like a kind of (indulge me here) regional air support unit????. Each county force in the UK has its own chopper (give or take). How can AGS management expect the GASU to perform effectively when its one or two assets covering 26 counties? Can I have a promotion now? Oh no wait, this would entail investment in AGS. I'll tender my resignation post haste.

djtechnics1210

metman wrote: »

Might I make a suggestion to AGS management....imagine...having more than one chopper operational at any one time, and even having them based regionally....like a kind of (indulge me here) regional air support unit????. Each county force in the UK has its own chopper (give or take). How can AGS management expect the GASU to perform effectively when its one or two assets covering 26 counties? Can I have a promotion now? Oh no wait, this would entail investment in AGS. I'll tender my resignation post haste.

3 Helicopters, 1 plane,

TheNog

FFS 31 posts deleted for being off topic - PEOPLE COME ON





Although this post below was off topic I left it cos it reflects my feeling towards Trojan.

flyton5 wrote: »

This trojan guy is getting on my wick.....seems to be posting just to get a rise out of particular people

Traumadoc

metman wrote: »

Doc, I am familiar with the kristieslaw site and here, as you say, some forces have curtailed pursuits and even 999 response on blues and twos for the reasons raised on that site. These forces are, however, by far in the minority.

In my view, to remove pursuits as a tactical option in the policing armoury is to effectively surrender the roads to mobile criminals and would do nothing more than encourage even more to chance their arm at playing cat and mouse with roads policing units.

As the police, we have a sworn duty to confront and tackle criminals, and this includes on the roads. Provided checks and balances are in place, as outlined in my previous post, I do not see why pursuits cannot continue to be used successfully as a tactic in apprehending those who display abject contempt for other road users and law abiding people in general.

I think a ban on police pursuing criminals would give out the wrong signal and ultimately result in more harm than it would prevent.

Agree with you there. As I said it is a difficult call.

Trojan911

TheNog wrote: »

FFS 31 posts deleted for being off topic - PEOPLE COME ON Although this post below was off topic I left it cos it reflects my feeling towards Trojan.

PM sent, as my reply is off topic to the current thread.

Flyton5, if you don't like my posts, then do not read them. Put me on your ignore list, like I just did for you. Simple as that.

Johnny Utah

Very reckless pursuit by the Gardai in that video. The first 2 Garda cars were not in full control as they went round the bend. All the cars were on the wrong side of a continuous white line. If there was a small kid out on the path or crossing the road, he could easily have been killed in that incident.:(

If the matter was that serious, they should have deployed the helicopter and then pulled back.

And why were there so many Garda vehicles involved?
I accept that it's better to have a few cars in pursuit, but 25??

lottodrink

Chief--- wrote: »

Anybody from the DMR north know if this integra got away??

Happened in coolock according to the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYmpZq3moKY

Wheres the video?? I'm from Coolock

lottodrink

javaboy wrote: »

I thought it was Organised Crime Unit.

It is Organised Crime Unit your right

angelfire9

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Very reckless pursuit by the Gardai in that video. The first 2 Garda cars were not in full control as they went round the bend. All the cars were on the wrong side of a continuous white line. If there was a small kid out on the path or crossing the road, he could easily have been killed in that incident.:(
If the matter was that serious, they should have deployed the helicopter and then pulled back.
And why were there so many Garda vehicles involved?
I accept that it's better to have a few cars in pursuit, but 25??

Obviously it was a serious matter or the chase wouldn't have happened. As for waiting for the helicopter as has been previously stated maybe it was somewhere else, maybe it was being serviced maybe it just wasn't available?

As previously stated by The Nog if a pedestrian had walked out in front of one of the squads the Gardai would swerve to avoid and crash rather than run over an innocent civilian which is probably more than can be said for the Integra driver!

Funny how so many civilians can state that the Gardai were in the wrong here when they've never been in the situation themselves it puzzles me how every Joe Soap can suddenly be an expert in catching criminals!

The sad thing is, if the guy in the Integra had done a U-turn and ploughed into one of the Garda cars and killed the gardai you can bet AGS would be criticised to high even in the media and on the net for their actions with little or no sympathy for the officers involved.
People need to take a step back and think about this, the Gardai weren't chasing this guy for kicks, they were doing it because they had to, they put their lives on the line to catch the driver of this car and instead of thanks they get criticism.

Every single day that a Garda goes out to work they have no idea what the shift will bring, a RTA with a little kid dead, a stabbing, a shooting, verbal and physical abuse, drunken louts spitting and kicking at them, searching a druggie and getting a prick from a needle, arresting someone who is HIV or Hep C positive and getting bitten for their trouble or knocking on a door at 3am on Christmas Eve to tell a parent their teenage son/daughter is dead after an accident this is the kind of things police do 24/7 365 days of the year all around the world, and all they get for their trouble is criticism and abuse from the public... nice one!



Last but not least, just to re-interate a tiny little observation i made earlier, it was the driver of the Integra who chose to drive through a residential estate to escape the Gardai it wasn't like the Gardai said to themselves "ah lads i'm bored... lets go for a high speed chase through a housing estate for a laugh"

Satan Polaroid

angelfire9 wrote: »

Every single day that a Garda goes out to work they have no idea what the shift will bring, a RTA with a little kid dead, a stabbing, a shooting, verbal and physical abuse, drunken louts spitting and kicking at them, searching a druggie and getting a prick from a needle, arresting someone who is HIV or Hep C positive and getting bitten for their trouble or knocking on a door at 3am on Christmas Eve to tell a parent their teenage son/daughter is dead after an accident this is the kind of things police do 24/7 365 days of the year all around the world, and all they get for their trouble is criticism and abuse from the public... nice one!

And yet I love my job. Mad eh?

angelfire9

Satan Polaroid wrote: »

And yet I love my job. Mad eh?

Must be a wee bit alright

Still though, think it had to be said, and coming from a civilian i can't wait to see how it get's twisted! :rolleyes:

TheNog

Johnny Utah wrote: »

If the matter was that serious, they should have deployed the helicopter and then pulled back.

If the helicopter had been deployed then the cars would have been abe to pull back.

Johnny Utah wrote: »

And why were there so many Garda vehicles involved?
I accept that it's better to have a few cars in pursuit, but 25??

There wasn't 25 cars only about 7

Satan Polaroid

Plus you forgot SO on a Sunday afternoon.

A fate worse than death! :eek:

Y2J_MUFC

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Evidently the Gardai knew what they were doing then so.

I agree with most of what you said, but..

How in the blue hell does:

Arresting a guy in a car with no functioning gearbox == Gardai knowing what they were doing

Eru

Im not going to reply to that, mainly because I dont know what your talking about but also because were going in circles on this thread.

I must have answered the same comments about 5 times now and the next person that mentions the helicopter, I am going to personally hack into the internet 24 style, jump through your window like Jack does and beat you to death with your own laptop!

Or maybe I should njust stop reading it

Trojan911

angelfire9 wrote: »

Funny how so many civilians can state that the Gardai were in the wrong here when they've never been in the situation themselves it puzzles me how every Joe Soap can suddenly be an expert in catching criminals!

Just curious there angelfire9,

Can you state they were in the right? You have experience in vehicle pursuit?

No one likes to see a skanger get one over and the driver of this integra deserves everything he gets from the legal side & it is down to the arresting officers to put their case together and to prosecute this driver. They have then done their job.

However, what I watched on this clip was not safe, in my opinion, it was a farce after the third police vehicle.

Split second decisions have to be made and it is not as easy as saying "I'll swerve to avoid that pedestrian".

You have to be trained in this field and as a previous poster (who claimed to be a serving member) pointed out probably none of the police drivers were trained in vehicle pursuit.

I would have thought that AGS would have a vehicle pursuit policy in place, maybe they have, but unfortunately it appeared from that video clip that it was a free for all.

More training, money and equipment is needed to bring AGS up to scratch to give them a better chance to fight crime and be more professional when they are out in the public eye. I, for one, would support this.

angelfire9

Trojan911 wrote: »

Just curious there angelfire9,

Can you state they were in the right? You have experience in vehicle pursuit?.

Never said i had experience, just that i would 100% trust experienced officers to make that call!

Trojan911 wrote: »

However, what I watched on this clip was not safe, in my opinion, it was a farce after the third police vehicle.

You're entitled to your opinion, but i'd be more inclined to side with opinions of the experienced officers!

Trojan911 wrote: »

Split second decisions have to be made and it is not as easy as saying "I'll swerve to avoid that pedestrian"..

I've swerved at night driving at 100km/hr to avoid hares, dogs, cats & badgers and managed not to kill myself or anyone/anything else (bar one unfortunate badger but that's another story) and i only have 10 years regular driving experience Gardai do actually recieve some training so i'd imagine it would be easier for them then me and i'd manage it!

Trojan911 wrote: »

More training, money and equipment is needed to bring AGS up to scratch to give them a better chance to fight crime and be more professional when they are out in the public eye. I, for one, would support this.

See, now this is where i beg to differ, sure the Gardai could do with more resources not going to argue there, but you see I already think they are professionals and having snazzy cars or Taser Guns isn't what makes a Garda professional, it's the job they do, the uniform they wear and the men & women they are already with the equipment they have already that makes them professionals who deserve our respect!

deadwood

Trojan911 wrote: »

More training, money and equipment is needed to bring AGS up to scratch to give them a better chance to fight crime and be more professional when they are out in the public eye. I, for one, would support this.

Everyone agrees with this one.

angelfire9 wrote: »

See, now this is where i beg to differ, sure the Gardai could do with more resources not going to argue there, but you see I already think they are professionals and having snazzy cars or Taser Guns isn't what makes a Garda professional, it's the job they do, the uniform they wear and the men & women they are already with the equipment they have already that makes them professionals who deserve our respect!

Very well put, angelfire.

Two non-members have brought this debate to a conclusion.

Can we put this thread to bed now?

Trojan911

angelfire9 wrote: »

You're entitled to your opinion, but i'd be more inclined to side with opinions of the experienced officers!

My opinion is based on experience in vehicle pursuit in the UK, London, to be precise. I mentioned it several posts back. You may have missed it.

angelfire9 wrote: »

I've swerved at night driving at 100km/hr to avoid hares, dogs, cats & badgers and managed not to kill myself or anyone/anything else (bar one unfortunate badger but that's another story) and i only have 10 years regular driving experience Gardai do actually recieve some training so i'd imagine it would be easier for them then me and i'd manage it!

One of the lucky ones then, sadly an ex colleagues daughter swerved to avoid a rabbit one night & died when she hit the ditch. Broke her neck, only 23yrs old.

angelfire9 wrote: »

See, now this is where i beg to differ, sure the Gardai could do with more resources not going to argue there, but you see I already think they are professionals and having snazzy cars or Taser Guns isn't what makes a Garda professional, it's the job they do, the uniform they wear and the men & women they are already with the equipment they have already that makes them professionals who deserve our respect!

I don't think, I know they are professionals. As I stated in my previous post to you. I would like them more professional. Just need a few more bob from the Government. Good answer though.

Thanks.

deadwood

Trojan911 wrote: »

My opinion is based on experience in vehicle pursuit in the UK, London, to be precise. I mentioned it several posts back. You may have missed it.

Are you a trained police driver? This would lend some weight to your posts.

TheNog

I think this thread has run its course alright. Unfortunately there was not much agreement except with training and equipment.

Its a pity really as there is a missed opportunity here for people outside of the job to see what we do and understand it.

Trojan911

deadwood wrote: »

Can we put this thread to bed now?

Can I then take it that my two questions will not be answered then?

Would it be that there was no justification for the amount of cars & speed through the estate?

And is Karlitosway1978 going to back up his statement, with proof, that I was a reserve in the MET?

Turner

Trojan911 are you an ex police pursuit driver or an ex reserve police officer??


Just to clear a few things up about the standard of driver training in the gardai. The gardai are trained in many styles of driving listed below.

Standard car and motorcycle course
Advanced car and motorcycle course

Both of which are up to the standard of the UK police drivers and is considered to be the best principles of roadcraft and standard of police driver training in the world.

The gardai also comlete
Jeep, personnell carrier (paddywagon) and HGV courses.
Tactical car course (eru and rsu)
Escort car and motorcycle course

However alot are actually driving on Chief Superintendents permission they are not allowed engage in putsuits. Chief Supt's permission only relates to lower powered patrol cars, no motorcycles/vans/jeeps.

The gardai are not trained in putsuits (eg boxing in cars or ramming cars), although it is not recommended individual gardai can make the decision to do this but be it on their own head. If anything goes wrong they are liable to prosecution. Management will not back you but it may be required to save a life.