Garda vs Integra

drunkmonkey · 25-11-2008 1:10am

eroo wrote: »

You cannot, in any way, make a comment about dangerous driving my friend..:rolleyes:

it dosen't count as dd, nobody saw me and nobody was injured (it's like it never happend;)), the mondeo was half way through a 360, that was the last thing I saw in the rear view mirror (I don't know if he even came after me:rolleyes:), for the record I wasn't speeding or dd when I saw the garda car but he was, I'm guessing he got a call about a white car again and mistook me for the 2 youngfellas that just blew by me in the civic's.....there was no way I was hanging around to take the heat for those boyracers.....Your Honour!

I agree with you totally about the integra driver...I don't agree with 7 mondeos chasing an integra around a residential area....it's to dangerous, stop chasing him, block his exits...get the chopper....ask the residents..but don't put peoples lives in danger if it's not a matter of life or death....the same goes for the open roads....

tbh, if I was the Garda I wouldn't have done it any different....i'd say it was good crack in the pub afterwards....

flyton5 · 25-11-2008 1:10am

i think we shud start a big petition to have all the gardai sacked and let people run wild doing what they want when they want....im tired of listening to people moaning about "muppet" gardai so the best thing to do is just get rid of them.....then when your house is being broken into or your car has been stolen there'll be no cause for people to complain.....better see if my pension in secured before i start this petition.......

drunkmonkey · 25-11-2008 1:13am

TheNog wrote: »

I say balls to your hearing. Did ye not hear the sirens?

brilliant:D

flyton5 · 25-11-2008 1:14am

Bambi wrote: »

*sigh* guessed this was coming

So you know what happened better than i did? Were you a bystander?

Didn't think so.

im not sure you know what happened....all im reading is a rant cause some joyriders nearly knocked u down....hardly the fault of the gardaí.....

congo_90 · 25-11-2008 1:17am

TheNog wrote: »

No the more cars the better tbh so if an opportunity arises to block the pursued car, it can be taken. The problem is that no gardai would have known where the guy was heading to at the time of the chase.

3 even 2 garda cars in a narrow estate could block them off while a third hangs back or takes alternative routes from info from other two to block off the offender. It isnt that hard in fairness (not flaming)

TheNog · 25-11-2008 1:20am

Bambi wrote: »

*sigh* guessed this was coming

So you know what happened better than i did? Were you a bystander?

Didn't think so.

I'm not having a go at you but just trying to understand where you are coming from.

No I was not there but from reading your post describing what happened, you don't mention hearing an approaching car. The car being pursued would have been quite audible even over other traffic.

drunkmonkey · 25-11-2008 1:22am

flyton5 wrote: »

let people run wild doing what they want when they want....

What's the first 3 things you'd do if you were let loose? I'd probably have a celebration beer:)

javaboy · 25-11-2008 1:23am

congo_90 wrote: »

3 even 2 garda cars in a narrow estate could block them off while a third hangs back or takes alternative routes from info from other two to block off the offender. It isnt that hard in fairness (not flaming)

Those 2 or 3 cars have to get in front of the offender first though, no? So again it comes back to the Gardai not knowing where the Integra is heading.

I know in my own estate, it would take about 30 Garda cars to use the approach you're suggesting. And that's assuming they knew the offender was gonna go into my estate in the first place.

Tbh they wouldn't resort to occasional high speed chases if they thought there was another safer easier way of handling it.

dredre · 25-11-2008 1:25am

TheNog wrote: »

I'm not having a go at you but just trying to understand where you are coming from.

No I was not there but from reading your post describing what happened, you don't mention hearing an approaching car. The car being pursued would have been quite audible even over other traffic.

unless perhaps the person was elderly or deaf. lights and sirens do not confer safety, they help. 25 cars for one chase is ridiculous whatever way you slice it. i know of guards who will stay on after their shift if there is 'something good happening, like a chase'. its easy to get caught up in the adrenaline rush of a high speed pursuit.

flyton5 · 25-11-2008 1:28am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What's the first 3 things you'd do if you were let loose? I'd probably have a celebration beer:)

u'd probably get as far as buying the beer before being attacked by gangs of roving youths celebrating....then u'd have no-one to report it to...so u'd have to go home and drink a sorrowful cup of tea...

TheNog · 25-11-2008 1:28am

congo_90 wrote: »

3 even 2 garda cars in a narrow estate could block them off while a third hangs back or takes alternative routes from info from other two to block off the offender. It isnt that hard in fairness (not flaming)

2-3 cars would be able to block off an exit no problem but again you are missing the point "The guards would not have known where this car would end up!!".

Also when in a car chase you cannot think like a normal motorist like taking the proper designated entrance/exit to an estate. They will go through a fence/wall, over a field/ditch etc.

If I remember correctly about 10-15 years ago there was an epidemic of joyriding in Dublin. There was talk for a while about banning gardai from chasing these vehicles until people came to the realisation that if Johnny gets away with driving dangerously in an estate, he will continue to do it until he kills himself or someone else. That's why joyriders must be caught and sent to prison. That's why car chases should not be banned.

Would help no end if there was cameras in the patrol cars to show a judge exactly what the manner of driving was like.

drunkmonkey · 25-11-2008 1:33am

flyton5 wrote: »

u'd probably get as far as buying the beer before being attacked by gangs of roving youths celebrating....then u'd have no-one to report it to...so u'd have to go home and drink a sorrowful cup of tea...

Why would I want to report it, what ye gonna do send out a crack squad of commandos to hunt down a roving gang of youths, not bloddy likley....dm would take his whooping, get loaded up on painkillers and have another beer......the last place i'd want to go is down the station...

flyton5 · 25-11-2008 1:34am

TheNog wrote: »

Would help no end if there was cameras in the patrol cars to show a judge exactly what the manner of driving was like.

quite a few of the dublin traffic cars have cameras mounted.....i had the pleasure of taking a spin in one but like someone already said traffic cars aren't used that much in high speed persuits....one of the best videos i saw was taken by a traffic mondeo.....chased a merc down the m50 and lost him just after the red cow roundabout.....at the time they had a skoda octavia RS on trial in dublin castle.....had that been in the chase mayb the outcome wud'v been different....someone needs to hav a word with the minister for justice.....give regular guards more powerful cars instead of just giving them to regional support units.....sigh......to hav a BMW instead of a mondeo.....

TheNog · 25-11-2008 1:34am

dredre wrote: »

unless perhaps the person was elderly or deaf. lights and sirens do not confer safety, they help. 25 cars for one chase is ridiculous whatever way you slice it. i know of guards who will stay on after their shift if there is 'something good happening, like a chase'. its easy to get caught up in the adrenaline rush of a high speed pursuit.

I wasn't saying that 25 cars should be used at all. I was replying to the post that no more than 8 cars should be in a chase. But in fairness if 25 cars were used to bring the car failing to stop to a stop without injuries to bystanders, isn't that the objective?

It is easy to get caught up in the adrenaline I know but I would prefer to have 4 patrol cars and another 2 cars with lads staying on to help out. Car chases don't last forever and the scummer in the car is at some stage going to leg it so plenty of bodis would probably be needed to hnt him down.

flyton5 · 25-11-2008 1:35am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Why would I want to report it, what ye gonna do send out a crack squad of commandos to hunt down a roving gang of youths, not bloddy likley....dm would take his whooping, get loaded up on painkillers and have another beer......the last place i'd want to go is down the station...

would i be far from the mark in saying your all talk?? i bet i wouldnt...

Profiler · 25-11-2008 1:42am

B00MSTICK wrote: »

So anyone actually know what he/she did?

And why so many cars chasing them? Surely 3 at most would be able to keep up with him? Basically follow him until he stops/breaks down/crashes whilst relaying his position etc

The driver of the car was the guy who did this :eek:

(not really, but still funny)

drunkmonkey · 25-11-2008 1:45am

flyton5 wrote: »

would i be far from the mark in saying your all talk?? i bet i wouldnt...

the last time I asked a Garda for help was when I was 10 and my bike was stolen, they got it back.....I have a lot of respect for the Garda in general don't read me wrong.., I like your idea of disbanding them, We should try it Christmas Eve until New Year and see what happens....I think your pension would be safe after that;)

Eru · 25-11-2008 1:47am

gatecrash wrote: »

Ok, All Knowing & Ever so Slightly Condescending One, hows about instead of coming across as an arrogant example of the worst that people see in cops, why don't you actually explain what it does mean?

Organised Crime Unit. Im not all knowing but you dont see me making comments about something I know nothing about now do you? Only a fool would associate AGS with the bloody Order of Malta.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

was the integra stolen, what was the reason behind the chase...

drunkmonkey wrote: »

They were in a Resedential area, I'm no detective but it would have made a lot more sense to block all exits rather than play cops and robbers where small children could be playing....Everyone in that video should be done for dangerous driving...

Well you tell us, they are so rare and hard to insure + your own admission that you speed and drive dangerously away from Gardai, surely it was you and the local 14 year olds who think you a god are the cameramen, yes?

Clearly, blocking all residential drivers INSIDE the estate is the safest option. maybe get them to park in such a way that they vecome part of the barrier for you, ahem the driver to crash into? Possible killing a few pensioners for good measure?

Ladies and gentlemen, for any who dont know. Even the Motor forum find drunken monkey to be a bit 'unique' in his opinions and comments. Of course they express themselves more freely towards him but I fear the wrath of Nog too much.

Anyone, most here have never driven a patrol car, were never in a high speed pursuit and have in fact, never been in anything approaching a dangerous encounter with a criminal but yet, and this is the important part, can offer no realistic alternativeto stop, detect and apprehend criminals while still condeming the worldwide, effective and approved method used by Gardai. American sport.....couch....day of the week. On the tip of my tongue

Edited to add: I like this Flyton guy

drunkmonkey · 25-11-2008 1:48am

Profiler wrote: »

The driver of the car was the guy who did this :eek:

(not really, but still funny)

flyton5 · 25-11-2008 1:49am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

the last time I asked a Garda for help was when I was 10 and my bike was stolen, they got it back.....I have a lot of respect for the Garda in general don't read me wrong.., I like your idea of disbanding them, We should try it Christmas Eve until New Year and see what happens....I think your pension would be safe after that;)

christmas eve would be an excellent idea....im not sure the residents of rathgar would be too happy thou as they depend on the guards in rathmines to control the mini riots falling out of a certain pub...after the past pupils of a certain school have a few too many and decide to take up irish dancing on cars...

brayblue24 · 25-11-2008 1:51am

donvito99 wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpHN9diNE64

The greatest garda, if not world chase of all time, Santry circa 1998.
Good down to earth policing:p, and the criminal gets his comeupence in the end, go on the guards...

Thats fookin SAS stuff lads, what a hero...

Have seen that clip before. It's from South Africa.

TheNog · 25-11-2008 1:56am

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

I fear the wrath of Nog.

Ezekiel 25:17. "The Path of the Righteous Man Is Beset on All Sides by Theinequities of the Selfish and the Tyranny of Evil Men."

flyton5 · 25-11-2008 2:01am

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Edited to add: I like this Flyton guy

thats the nicest thing anyone has ever said to me.....my parents dont love me.....they were ashamed of my ambition to be a guard.....i thought it was wierd because they're both guards....hmmmm....maybe they were just ashamed of me full stop......

Eru · 25-11-2008 2:02am

brayblue24 wrote: »

Have seen that clip before. It's from South Africa.

No but, it says its Santry Gardai on Youtube so thats means its true! You know, like most of the Garda clips that show cunning Gardai using cars and uniforms with 'police' on them and dashcams and shotguns

yayamark · 25-11-2008 2:27am

Gil_Dub wrote: »

2002, Garda Tighe and Padden in a collision with a stolen vehicle on the Stillorgan dual carriageway.

Rest in peace.

They didnt crash they were crashed into.

Trojan911 · 25-11-2008 10:01am

deadwood wrote: »

The helicopter's useless on speed bumps.

Really, with that type of reply it does not surprise me the AGS comes under so much criticism. You don't appear to grasp the seriousness of the potential dangers posed by all involved.

That pursuit should have been limited to two vehicles with the deployment of the helicopter to monitor from the sky & direct other vehicles to areas where stinger could be deployed or where it could be stopped safely away from a residential estate. If the helicopter was not available then the pursuit should have been called off in the interests of safety to all, IMEO.

<SNIP>

drunkmonkey · 25-11-2008 10:48am

Karlitosway1978 wrote: »

Well you tell us, they are so rare and hard to insure + your own admission that you speed and drive dangerously away from Gardai,

thanks for the introduction, if you read my statement you'll notice I had some justification in that instance as I was the one going to get nailed for someone elses wrong doing, i'd like to know what you would have done in that scenario...
You call Quinn direct and ask them for a quote on an Evo, tell them your 21 and see how far you get, heck tell them your 30 and see will they still quote you.....

ps.
am I now officaly under surveillance, it seems like it?:rolleyes:

Gavin · 25-11-2008 11:23am

Trojan911 wrote: »

You don't appear to grasp the seriousness of the potential dangers posed by all involved.

So you think a qualified Garda doesn't grasp the seriousness of a high speed pursuit ? The same Garda who probably has to drive at high speeds after some loon, who will have to take responsibility if he hits someone or something ? He made a joke, it was obviously a joke, I actually laughed at it !

That pursuit should have been limited to two vehicles with the deployment of the helicopter to monitor from the sky & direct other vehicles to areas where stinger could be deployed or where it could be stopped safely away from a residential estate. If the helicopter was not available then the pursuit should have been called off in the interests of safety to all, IMEO.

Yeah I watch road wars sometimes too, pretty good innit ! Not a fan of Conrad, but the rest are ok. Can't beat the aul chopper and stinger ! I'm always impressed how they yank it back so quickly that the chasing cars don't get done.

Calling it off depends doesn't it. It depends on a lot of things. What did they do? As karlito said, if they had someone in the boot, you think it should have been called off ?

You are claiming an educated opinion, what is your education in the matter?

This unacceptable incident cost a person their life when it involved a speeding patrol car, which was going to the wrong address.

What exactly is your point with this? That high speed driving is risky?

Satan Polaroid · 25-11-2008 12:40pm

Too much bickering and not enough debate....

It is clear that Gardaí need more training in the use of stingers, driving and tactics.

It is also clear that Gardaí need better readily available equipment in the form of stingers, cars and everything else.

Instead of blaming the Gardaí, how about blaming the Government for the lack of training, equipment and resources?

We're doing the best we can with what we have.

Trojan911 · 25-11-2008 12:46pm

Verb wrote: »

So you think a qualified Garda doesn't grasp the seriousness of a high speed pursuit ?

Qualified in what? Vehicle pusuit? Is He/She? You do not have to be a Garda to grasp the seriousness or potential dangers of a high speed pursuit.

Verb wrote: »

Yeah I watch road wars sometimes too, pretty good innit ! Not a fan of Conrad, but the rest are ok. Can't beat the aul chopper and stinger ! I'm always impressed how they yank it back so quickly that the chasing cars don't get done.

Never watched the show, so I haven't the first clue what you are on about.

Verb wrote: »

Calling it off depends doesn't it. It depends on a lot of things. What did they do? As karlito said, if they had someone in the boot, you think it should have been called off ?

If it poses a danger to the public then yes call it off irrespective, now, driving several cars fast through a residential estate at I believe 3pm, warrants criticism.

Well, did they have someone in the boot? Let me take a wild stab at it & say, hmmmm... No, they didn't. Like I asked before, where was the helicopter?

Verb wrote: »

You are claiming an educated opinion, what is your education in the matter?

Many, many fabulous years in the Met, learning many skills, including vehicle pursuit. Your opinion is stemmed from same? You've been there? or just from what you see & hear on the telly/internet and then speculate?

Verb wrote: »

What exactly is your point with this? That high speed driving is risky?

A totally innocent person is dead. All for what? Not only is it risky but dangerous.
________________

So Verb, I hope that clears up a few of your questions. The long & short of it is, public safety. Your safety, my safety & of course, the officers concerned. It's all great being there, the chase, the adrenoline buzz, the capture.

However when the wheel comes off & people are injured or killed, it's a different story.

Are all vehicle pursuits really necessary ? When & Where do you draw the line? Do we have to wait for more innocent fatalities?

Garda vs Integra

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