Why would you vote Fianna Fail?

Tom65

Ace2007 wrote: »

Correct me if i'm wrong but have the government not made provisions for when we all retire?
Aren't there alot of people who want to use this fund to get us out of the problem we're in.

so all in all the government have money put away in theory - so shoudn't the people also have the money.

Here is a link that was posted 2 days ago to prove my point that companies out there are still offering the money if you have the qualifications:

http://www.irishjobs.ie/JobDesc.asp?ID=5716055&MID=1998

So the people I know who've studied for 6+ years to become solicitors (for example) should just ignore what they've spent their time studying, and join a trading firm?

You speak as if medical cards and provisions for the elderly are the only source of income in hard times. It should be one of the last touched.

ninty9er

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Oh, people are as much to blame as govenrment. This is ehy I got out.

And you STILL haven't answered comments about why FF never invested in infrastructure, such as schools, hospitals and public transport, where EVERYONE woudl have benefited, not just the rich. Why was the cancer scheme scrapped? Why weren't shools upgraded as promised? Nothing to do with personal spending ffs.

Never heard of the Schools Building Programme, Transport 21, Luas, Iarnrod Éireann, Dublin Bus, a Quality Bus Corridor (which have been continuously been shot down by all parties in my city), The M7, The M50, Shannon Terminal 2, Cork Airport, The M1, the M50, Jack Lynch Tunnell, Shannon Tunnell, Port Tunnell, Dart, Taxi De-regulation, Kildare Commuter Services.

Schools take time and money to uprade, but if you take your head out og the clouds, and open your eyes you'll see this is happening.

Quite frankly, the country school with 20 kids should not exist, never mind get a new building, there is no economic sense in providing services on this scale, cluster schools would make more sense, but that's not something that's going to happen overnight, due to people set in their ways.

Cork University Hospital, Tallaght Hospital, Mid-Western Regional Hospital. These have all undergone massive transformation.

We have 43 hospitals in this country. That's a ludicrous waste of resources for a country this size, but any government that tries to reform this get blamed by people like all the moaners on here because it affetcs THEM. People are all for rationalisation until it affects THEM.

Basically, Irish people have come to grow a sense of complete entitlement over the past 10-15 years, if things hadn't imporved this sense of entitlement would never have appeared.

You are not entitled to world class services until you accept you have to pay world class taxes.

Corporations do not use schools to educate themselves, when they use universities for this they pay, corporations don't use hospitals when they get sick, they pay for accountants and financial advisors, so before you go suggesting that we increase business taxes, ask yourselves, would you pay for something you're NEVER going to use.

This is why we shouldn't have free Third Level education for all and why health insurance is a system that works.

ejmaztec

ninty9er wrote: »

would you pay for something you're NEVER going to use.

Yes one does, unless one wishes to be prosecuted for tax evasion. We are all paying for things that we don't use.

Has anyone tried getting a lift to Portugal on the Government jet? It's extremely difficult, if not impossible.

ninty9er

ejmaztec wrote: »

Yes one does, unless one wishes to be prosecuted for tax evasion. We are all paying for things that we don't use.

Has anyone tried getting a lift to Portugal on the Government jet? It's extremely difficult, if not impossible.

Did you not hear it's a heap of ****. I'd rather fly Ryanair!

Tax pays for society, and we are all members of society!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

ninty9er wrote: »

Never heard of the Schools Building Programme, Transport 21, Luas, Iarnrod Éireann, Dublin Bus, a Quality Bus Corridor (which have been continuously been shot down by all parties in my city), The M7, The M50, Shannon Terminal 2, Cork Airport, The M1, the M50, Jack Lynch Tunnell, Shannon Tunnell, Port Tunnell, Dart, Taxi De-regulation, Kildare Commuter Services.

Once again PUBLIC transport. Not Personal trasnport. Not motorways and tunnels. Buses. Trains. You mention "Dublin Bus" but refuse to mention the fact that the busses are frequently late, if they even show up on time. Ever hear of the 75 route and I'm sure there are others. You mention Iarnrod Eireann. You don't mention how a person is to get from Galway to Donegal useing it. Oh wait... there's not a single train service IN Donegal. You mention Dart which is neither frequent nor widespread sompared to European standards. There's nothing to be proud of there.

Schools take time and money to uprade, but if you take your head out og the clouds, and open your eyes you'll see this is happening.

I agree, but once again: WHY WAS ATTENTION NOT PAID WHEN THE MONEY WAS THERE?

Cork University Hospital, Tallaght Hospital, Mid-Western Regional Hospital. These have all undergone massive transformation.

We have 43 hospitals in this country. That's a ludicrous waste of resources for a country this size, but any government that tries to reform this get blamed by people like all the moaners on here because it affetcs THEM. People are all for rationalisation until it affects THEM.

Cancer program, scrapped medical cards for theelderly....

Basically, Irish people have come to grow a sense of complete entitlement over the past 10-15 years, if things hadn't imporved this sense of entitlement would never have appeared.

You are not entitled to world class services until you accept you have to pay world class taxes.

Where did I 'world class'? Most irish people, at this stage, would settle for 'adequate'? Or at lease equal for everyone.

Corporations do not use schools to educate themselves, when they use universities for this they pay, corporations don't use hospitals when they get sick, they pay for accountants and financial advisors, so before you go suggesting that we increase business taxes, ask yourselves, would you pay for something you're NEVER going to use.

This is why we shouldn't have free Third Level education for all and why health insurance is a system that works.

Where did I mention corporations of buiness taxes....?

It's not about how the money gets there because the money WAS THERE. And it was redistributed foolishly and unfarily. IT'S NOT ABOUT TAXES!!!

ninty9er

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Cancer program, scrapped medical cards for theelderly....

That's not capital.

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Where did I mention corporations of buiness taxes....?

You didn't but no doubt someone was going to.

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

It's not about how the money gets there because the money WAS THERE. And it was redistributed foolishly and unfarily. IT'S NOT ABOUT TAXES!!!

Unfortunately it is.

Do you realise how much of our income was spent on repaying national debt in the last 15 years. You can't do everything at once. We didn't have a massive amount of money left over and we couldn't leave the debt sit there either.

lmtduffy

Some things I feel should be pointed out:

• Schools are getting worse, have not gotten better, has any one seen a school with out a prefab for a while? And the schools are ran by the church by and large.

• public transport is at a minimum, all the roads in the world wont make it easier for anyone to get anywhere unless they buy a car.

• The health service is terribly managed, and provides a terrible service and is being crippled by the government in order to push private heath care.

• The health service staff doctors and nurses haven’t a chance against the government and mary harney who despite her and her parties tiny mandate get such an influential position.

• Our health service is under funded in European standards

• Having schools and hospitals in rural areas may not make economic sense but I believe maybe something’s should be valued due to their social benefits rather than just their economic cost.

• Things are bad FF made them bad had the greatest opportunity to set this country up for many years to come, failed miserably and are now undoing any good work ever done in this country in their attempts to save money.

• Money is available, tax the rich, money should have been saved during the Celtic tiger.

• Money from the Celtic tiger was not invested in any way it was spent and is gone.

• People will not accept higher taxes because people are aware that FF doesn’t need more to misspend,

The argument that I wont vote for any other party because:

• enda Kenny is a bore, is null. Were voting for a politician not a best friend, if we give him a colourful shirt would he get your vote?

• that other parties cant do any better than FF is null, other parties would have invested, other parties would have taken measure to protect the economy, and other parties wouldn’t have decided not to vaccinate people against cancer and wouldnt have decided to limit medical cards for pensioners in a way that would severely affect the quality of life for many pensioners living on the margins. Ask your daughter, sister, girlfriend, grand parents do they think FF is making the best decisions.

• My local td is very good to me, yeh well their a lot more people on this island many of whom live lives of ridiculous constraints in order to get by due to our inadequate, ancient and completely undirected welfare system. Think of others next time.


And on a more general point any one out their who disagrees with free health care and free education, look at the quality of life in any countries that dont have these and compare them to countries that do. The Nordic states being prime examples. These countries not only have better health and education systems, but have better societies due to this. They have less crime, less poverty and by almost all measures every citizen enjoys a better quality of life than anywhere else in the world. This will cost more and it will be worth it. Look at these countries bad you will be throwing your money at the government to spend. Value your own and others quality of life more than your money.

*vote labour!

thebman

I think rather than blaming everyone at fault like FF, the banks, construction industry, regulators etc..., we should just blame Canada!

Ace2007

Lets just say we did have a top class health system and education system - how would that change any of the problems we now face - it wouldn't change a thing cause people would just find something else to blame on the government.

lmtduffy

lord help us for wanting the best society possible,

and for blaming the government if they impede the development of that.

Terry

FF: right wing.
FG: right wing.
National socialist party: Right wing.
Maggie thatcher: right wing.
Franco: right wing.
Mussolini: right wing.
Both George bush's: right wing.

I've voted Labour all my voting life.

LivingDeadGirl

The morality of a government can be judged on what it does for it's children.

Lets make education cuts!! :pac:

ninty9er

LivingDeadGirl wrote: »

The morality of a government can be judged on what it does for it's children.

Lets make education cuts!! :pac:

And the effectiveness of a government is whether it plans for rewarding public service slacking (i.e giving subs for uncertified sicknesses in schools which is what all of this sh1t is about)

Quite frankly if a teacher is only out for a day another teacher can cover the class, to suggest that isn't feasible is utter male cowpat. If they provide a cert after that, a sub will be approved.



To suggest ANYONE should be immune to the programme for economic recovery is absurd and smacks of a NIMBY attitude that embodies everything that is wrong with modern Irish society.

Terry: FF is centre left....more centre than left though. You wouldn't notice though because the left/right divide barely exists, if even at all in this country, at least that is one positive thing about our political system.

RonMexico

I won't be voting for Willie O'Dea because he is a useless windbag who is standing by while his city is being destroyed. Minister for Defence my hole. Enda Kenny is an effeminate wimp who couldn't control a wet dream.

lmtduffy

The nimby attitude that FF thrives on.:pac:


FF is centre right, ie all the good work they've done for private health care.

Its not a matter of a sector being immune its that these sectors should be protected, they should have been protected by having been invested in during the boom, so that when they were cut back we would have a system that would not receive any extra investment not one that is loosing out on very necessary investment.

We need to continue to invest in education, health care etc during the recession so that when we boom again these sectors will too. The way were doing it when we boom again these sectors will be back to square one.

thebman

ninty9er wrote: »

And the effectiveness of a government is whether it plans for rewarding public service slacking (i.e giving subs for uncertified sicknesses in schools which is what all of this sh1t is about)

Quite frankly if a teacher is only out for a day another teacher can cover the class, to suggest that isn't feasible is utter male cowpat. If they provide a cert after that, a sub will be approved.



To suggest ANYONE should be immune to the programme for economic recovery is absurd and smacks of a NIMBY attitude that embodies everything that is wrong with modern Irish society.

Terry: FF is centre left....more centre than left though. You wouldn't notice though because the left/right divide barely exists, if even at all in this country, at least that is one positive thing about our political system.

Considering Education needed more money when we had money to suggest we make cuts to education is ridiculous IMO.

Also the reason another teacher can't cover the other class for a day is because the classrooms are overcrowded and you can't put two classes in one class which means leaving kids unsupervised for a period of time which = lawsuit.

If a school has a principal that doesn't teach it may be possible he can teach the class for the day.

Half the schools in the country are still using temporary classrooms after about 10 years so why would you want to cut their funding?

I'm all in favour of actuall you know assessing their performance though and getting rid of the ones that can't actually teach.

No I'm not a teacher or anything like it although I do baby sit adults using computers because their too thick to google their problem or start an anti-virus program themselves.

brianthebard

Terry wrote: »

FF: right wing. Ah sure whatever wing you're having yourself, I'm not fussy.

FYP

junkyard

I'm so disillusioned with all the political parties, especially FF for their corruption and bad management, that I've decided to leave the place while there's still a ferry running out of the place, I really think the place is getting so bad now that many companies will up and leave too, all the new levies and taxes are simply a case of the last straw breaking the camels back. Instead of cutting overheads and taxes they put them up. What hope have businesses of surviving here? None, and if there are no businesses there won't be any jobs either. How FF are still in power defies belief tbh, this country is like a ship at sea with no engine, no rudder and the crew is on the bridge watching the rocks approaching rapidly thinking we're all going to be ok at the end of the day.

KnifeWRENCH

I just noticed this post now and wanted to clear something up:

galwayrush wrote: »

Our Education Minister is a Pig Farmer, who once tried to have the movie Babe banned because he thought it might affect the pork industry here.:D

That wasn't Batt O'Keefe, that was Ned O'Keeffe. Ned is a TD in Cork East (my constituency)

galwayrush

square_igloo wrote: »

I just noticed this post now and wanted to clear something up:


That wasn't Batt O'Keefe, that was Ned O'Keeffe. Ned is a TD in Cork East (my constituency)

Oops, my apologies.:o

junkyard

square_igloo wrote: »

I just noticed this post now and wanted to clear something up:


That wasn't Batt O'Keefe, that was Ned O'Keeffe. Ned is a TD in Cork East (my constituency)

But in fairness this is the kind of sh**e FF comes up with on a regular basis, they're like village idiots, every town has a few.:rolleyes:

ejmaztec

They really are quite versatile, not only did they fuck up the boom, they're now fucking up the recession. What really is scary is that FG would have done exactly the same. Is there no beginning to the politicians' talents? :eek:

junkyard

Politicans are only in it for themselves in this country, must be the only job you get a pension after three or four years, work a three day week, your expenses are more than your wages and you don't need reciepts to prove them. I'd like to try the last one with the revenue commissioners and see how far I'd get. They're a f**king disgrace tbh:mad:.

Bottle_of_Smoke

the idea that it would be any different with fine gael in power is laughable.

Pride Fighter

Weathercheck wrote: »

Right, seen as the latest poll shows that Fianna Fail have 30% of the electorate, there must be a fair few supporters on here.

Why do you support this corrupt, failure of a party?

Is it because your parents supported it and you feel you must?

Is it because you support the politics which have led us to where we are today?

Why is it?

My problem is that it is so sad that a party that has failed a country so much can still garner so much support, that at this stage in political life ONE party could actually turn to anything and still get support.

I'm worried and if your an Irish citizen so should you.

Cause FG are shite, Labour are brutal (trade unions vote for FF now), and the leftovers are wackos. Best of a bad bunch unfortunately.

Pride Fighter

brianthebard wrote: »

FYP

I thought you said fap for a second.

lmtduffy

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Cause FG are shite, Labour are brutal (trade unions vote for FF now), and the leftovers are wackos. Best of a bad bunch unfortunately.

Apathy is never an excuse.

Do you think restricting drinking times, not giving girls cancer vaccinations, taking medical cards off pensioners, taking 1% of your income to provide you with less public services cause they misspent the rest of their money is acceptable?

I can tell you the labour party may have lost its trade union voting base but we are still the only political party affiliated with them and I think that given the coming recession if workers back are against the wall they'll realise the effect their vote has had.

To say FF are the best of the worst is an absolute half arsed farce.

If you have a problem with corruption, incompetence, privitisation of public services and the unguided spending of the public's money then do not vote for FF.

Ive been avoiding to an extent tooting my parties own horn, and even i think of my party of choice as the best of the worst but thats just due to my own disagreement with political parties in general and certain socialist values held by members of the labour party I believe that my quality of life and that of every one else on this island is worth working for. And it is because of apathetic sh1tes that FF are still in power that people have to die on trollies, live on the breadline, pay for their kids education and send their kids to overcrowded sheds to receive an education.

The labour party introduced free third level education, they tried to introduce free medical health care for mothers and children once upon a time too but that was shot down by FF and the church.

Labour is not corrupt and labour is the only socially progressive party on the island.

/propaganda/ends/

Bottle_of_Smoke

lmtduffy wrote: »

Apathy is never an excuse.

Do you think restricting drinking times, not giving girls cancer vaccinations, taking medical cards off pensioners, taking 1% of your income to provide you with less public services cause they misspent the rest of their money is acceptable?

If labour got in do you think they'd reverse the drinking times restriction/off licence time limit? Theyll get my number one anyway just you seem to know more than I.

KingSitric

Well said lmtDuffy.
Its appalling what this government is up to and even more shocking they way people are sitting back and taking it.
A climate of Apathy is exactly what suits FF and the rest.

www.irishpeoplepower.blogspot.com

lmtduffy

I am going to do as much as I can to do this,

it is labour youth policy to do make such changes and then some, and will hopefully become labour party policy pending members approval at some point in the next year.

Labour is a socially liberal party it is in line with our values to do this.

Ask your local labour party councillor, td, candidate etc how they feel about it then ask your local FF how they feel about it.