Why would you vote Fianna Fail?

Ace2007

O but lets look at it this way... when you house next door was for sale - who were the people bidding against each other pushing the pricies up and up??

Is it the governments fault that the people are up to the neck in debt - if people weren't in so much debt then they wouldn't mind the cutbacks etc - but thats just it they the people of ireland became greedy buying and buying - the financial world(not just ireland is falling - we still haven't hit the bottom) and now people are screwed.

When something doesn't work people in ireland first reaction is to blame someone.

A few years ago everyone was on strike - the nureses were always looking for more money, the trade Unions got stronger and stronger - and that is where the problem lies. The Unions got so stronge that they got what the wanted - so if people on here want to blame anyone then they gotta look at themselves first.

Yes the government may have wasted millions on the roads or the e-voting machines. But Ireland came from nothing - was it the government that made ireland - no it was the people - free edcuation means nothing unless the people make use of it. the private companies came in and paid people hugh sums of money to work for them - which meant the people went and bought the best cars/houses = fueling the economy - government didn't fuel it.

I know young lads leaving college and walking into 55K a year jobs - they received free 3rd level education and walk into private companies paying huge some sums of money. what do they give back to the government - just their taxes - is that fair?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

ninty9er wrote: »

Do you plan to back that up using a general reference to a handful of well know politicians or have you actually got anything substantive to prove that Fianna Fáil, an organisation of almost 80,000 members is corrupt?

Who was the last FF taoiseach NOT to be embroiled in a corruption scandal...?

(Not agreeing with the "whole party" comment, though)

ninty9er

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Who was the last FF taoiseach NOT to be embroiled in a corruption scandal...?

(Not agreeing with the "whole party" comment, though)

When was the last time at least one minister in ANY government wasn't embroiled in a corruption scandal??

Noonan and the blood scandal, Garret's interest free loan that mysteriously disappeared off the banks books.

ec18

what I love about this bitchfest about FF is that it's not going to make the slightest bit of difference :P

johnnyrotten

Best option out there

Ace2007

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Who was the last FF taoiseach NOT to be embroiled in a corruption scandal...?

(Not agreeing with the "whole party" comment, though)

What differnces does this make...

johnnyrotten

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Who was the last FF taoiseach NOT to be embroiled in a corruption scandal...?

eh, last one ,Brian Cowen

johnnyrotten

xniamhx wrote: »

I'm delighted FG aren’t in government to be blamed for the mess that has been created courtesy of the grade A **** in FF.. And im also pretty happy that were in a recession because it’s exactly what most of the idiots in Ireland deserve. This country has no STANDARDS! Politicians can do whatever the hell they want and the masses will be thinking ''isn’t bertie lovely''. There is no accountability because everything is 'grand'.

As for the Enda bashing[im from Dublin btw], pure ignorance..how can you call Enda Kenny a joke w/o taking a serious look at the ministers in our current government.

Brian Lenihan....Mary Harney....Michael Martin...Mary Hanifin...Willie O Dea... to name but a few of the planks.

But of course all the working classes, ff grass roots, builders/developers & nouveau riche idiots will always vote ff,
and so the real middle class in Ireland will always lose out.

Kenny is the biggest plank ever to cross the threshold of Leinster House. If FG are to have a decent crack at next election the need to get rid of him

Ace2007

While i agree with you about kenny...
I would support his latest idea of the national wage agreement to be scrapped.
Of course no one else probably will.

Tom65

Ace2007 wrote: »

O but lets look at it this way... when you house next door was for sale - who were the people bidding against each other pushing the pricies up and up??

Is it the governments fault that the people are up to the neck in debt - if people weren't in so much debt then they wouldn't mind the cutbacks etc - but thats just it they the people of ireland became greedy buying and buying - the financial world(not just ireland is falling - we still haven't hit the bottom) and now people are screwed.

When something doesn't work people in ireland first reaction is to blame someone.

A few years ago everyone was on strike - the nureses were always looking for more money, the trade Unions got stronger and stronger - and that is where the problem lies. The Unions got so stronge that they got what the wanted - so if people on here want to blame anyone then they gotta look at themselves first.

Yes the government may have wasted millions on the roads or the e-voting machines. But Ireland came from nothing - was it the government that made ireland - no it was the people - free edcuation means nothing unless the people make use of it. the private companies came in and paid people hugh sums of money to work for them - which meant the people went and bought the best cars/houses = fueling the economy - government didn't fuel it.

I know young lads leaving college and walking into 55K a year jobs - they received free 3rd level education and walk into private companies paying huge some sums of money. what do they give back to the government - just their taxes - is that fair?

So it was thanks to the government that Ireland get rich, but the people made it poor again? You can't have it both ways.

People will look after themselves, it's the government's job to look after the economy on the whole.

It is Fianna Fail's fault for basing so much of the Celtic Tiger on the construction sector that's now shrinking. It's Fianna Fail's fault for wasting money in the years we had an abundance of it - no forward planning, no transport improvements and a stagnated healthcare system.
I understand the global financial system is in crisis, and that cuts will have to be made now. My problem is that those cuts were in the worst possible places - elderly care and education. Only a couple of weeks ago - two months after the budget - did they announce cuts for the most wealthy.

And you know people walking out of third level into 55k p/a jobs? I'm in my final year in college, and can't think of a single person I know who has walked out of college into a 55k p/a job, or even into a job that suits their qualifications. Most are working in cafés and restaurants, and that isn't exaggerating.

ejmaztec

ec18 wrote: »

what I love about this bitchfest about FF is that it's not going to make the slightest bit of difference :P

I think that sums it up. I can hear all of the TDs reading this thread and laughing their heads off because they know it's going to be business as usual, no matter which bunch of 'em get to run the show into the ground the next time.

Something radical needs to be done to get them all out of their stagnant stupour, but I can't see that happening either.

Ace2007

Tom65 wrote: »

So it was thanks to the government that Ireland get rich, but the people made it poor again? You can't have it both ways.

People will look after themselves, it's the government's job to look after the economy on the whole.

It is Fianna Fail's fault for basing so much of the Celtic Tiger on the construction sector that's now shrinking. It's Fianna Fail's fault for wasting money in the years we had an abundance of it - no forward planning, no transport improvements and a stagnated healthcare system.
I understand the global financial system is in crisis, and that cuts will have to be made now. My problem is that those cuts were in the worst possible places - elderly care and education. Only a couple of weeks ago - two months after the budget - did they announce cuts for the most wealthy.

And you know people walking out of third level into 55k p/a jobs? I'm in my final year in college, and can't think of a single person I know who has walked out of college into a 55k p/a job, or even into a job that suits their qualifications. Most are working in cafés and restaurants, and that isn't exaggerating.

Correct me if i'm wrong but have the government not made provisions for when we all retire?
Aren't there alot of people who want to use this fund to get us out of the problem we're in.

so all in all the government have money put away in theory - so shoudn't the people also have the money.

Here is a link that was posted 2 days ago to prove my point that companies out there are still offering the money if you have the qualifications:

http://www.irishjobs.ie/JobDesc.asp?ID=5716055&MID=1998

brianthebard

Ace2007 wrote: »

lads not one person has yet told me what the government has done that so wrong...
like come on the government introduced the SSIA schemem a few years ago to get people saving - everyone has now gotten there money back + the extra, and so what did people do with this money????? i find it a joke to believe that people are putting everthing on the government.

Here's the reality... the money is not there - the governement have to make cuts - so what section do they make cuts which will prevent an uproar - answer there is no section.

Enda Kenny suggested that the government should get rid of the national pay package - how many people here support that idea??? This is the oppositions idea not the governments.

Michael Martin was subject to abuse when he brought in the no-smoking in pubs back a few years ago - everyone said it won't work - this is a joke etc. now nearly everyone even the smokers agree that was a great move.

Mary Harney was a PD.

I'm also curious to what you mean the "real middle class" lol

It's like watching a really dumb kid stick his fingers up his nose and shout "nah nah nah nah, I'm not listening!!!"

xOxSinéadxOx

Ace2007 wrote: »

lads not one person has yet told me what the government has done that so wrong...
like come on the government introduced the SSIA schemem a few years ago to get people saving - everyone has now gotten there money back + the extra, and so what did people do with this money????? i find it a joke to believe that people are putting everthing on the government.

Here's the reality... the money is not there - the governement have to make cuts - so what section do they make cuts which will prevent an uproar - answer there is no section.

Enda Kenny suggested that the government should get rid of the national pay package - how many people here support that idea??? This is the oppositions idea not the governments.

Michael Martin was subject to abuse when he brought in the no-smoking in pubs back a few years ago - everyone said it won't work - this is a joke etc. now nearly everyone even the smokers agree that was a great move.

Mary Harney was a PD.

I'm also curious to what you mean the "real middle class" lol

What have teh government done wrong? are you actually serious? the ssia scheme was joke, wasting more money, to decrease inflation and encourage spending, yeah whatever, all it did was give the rich people more money to blow when it matured! the flited money around when we were in the boom, the spent way too much money on current expenditure. I mean no extra money was spent on capital like schools and hospitals. we had loads of money and yet our schools where falling down and you couldn't get a bed if you went to the hospital

Ace2007

Right well clearly EVERYONE things the same as you guys - after all FF have all been in government for how long?

blame the government if you guys like - cause its your own fault whether or not you can see that is up to you.

7 months down the line when the coutry is on its knees - will it still be the governments fault?

galwayrush

Ace2007 wrote: »

Right well clearly EVERYONE things the same as you guys - after all FF have all been in government for how long?

blame the government if you guys like - cause its your own fault whether or not you can see that is up to you.

7 months down the line when the coutry is on its knees - will it still be the governments fault?

They were warned many months ago that the country would be on it's knees if they didn't do something about the overheating economy and their dependance on a vastly over-inflated housing market, so to answer, yes , it is the goverments fault, and the simple fact that they blindly stumbled into this mess, how on earth could they possibly find their way out of it.

Ace2007

brianthebard wrote: »

It's like watching a really dumb kid stick his fingers up his nose and shout "nah nah nah nah, I'm not listening!!!"

yea w/e mate - i'm living in the real world, look around you mate - there are 19 year olds going round in their own cars, there are families driving cars worth 60/70K people spent way above their means - its all gone pear shape and they want someone to blame. its easier to blame others than take responsiblity yourself.

We have free education and free health care - look at the states - they won't even look at you in a hospital unless you have insurance.

look at africa there are people dyin cause they have no food - they have no houses - they actually have nothing - and now look at yourself - you have as much food as you want - a car - a house and your still complaining.

galwayrush

Ace2007 wrote: »

We have free education and free health care - look at the states - they won't even look at you in a hospital unless you have insurance.

.

The "free education" is costing me a fortune every month, and as for our free health care:eek: My wife is very ill, we don't have health insurance because of the illness, and when it comes to treatment, we're told, you can get it free in 6-8 months, or if we pay for it privately, she can get treated straight away and save her life. This situation has from our experience clearly got worse by each year this shower have been in power. We live in the real world, and it's not a good experience.:mad: Yes, we are in a better state than some poor African countries, but that's hardly a fair comparison, why not compare us to a more modern country.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Ace2007 wrote: »

Right well clearly EVERYONE things the same as you guys - after all FF have all been in government for how long?

blame the government if you guys like - cause its your own fault whether or not you can see that is up to you.

7 months down the line when the coutry is on its knees - will it still be the governments fault?

Oh, people are as much to blame as govenrment. This is ehy I got out.

And you STILL haven't answered comments about why FF never invested in infrastructure, such as schools, hospitals and public transport, where EVERYONE woudl have benefited, not just the rich. Why was the cancer scheme scrapped? Why weren't shools upgraded as promised? Nothing to do with personal spending ffs.

Ace2007

galwayrush wrote: »

The "free education" is costing me a fortune every month, and as for our free health care:eek: My wife is very ill, we don't have health insurance because of the illness, and when it comes to treatment, we're told, you can get it free in 6-8 months, or if we pay for it privately, she can get treated straight away and save her life. This situation has from our experience clearly got worse by each year this shower have been ion power. We live in the real world, and it's not a good experience.:mad:

mate have FG in power or whoever its not going to change anything.

brianthebard

Ace2007 wrote: »

and now look at yourself - you have as much food as you want - a car - a house and your still complaining.

WTF? I don't have any of things tbh, and free education isn't that free you know. But keep covering your eyes to the failures of the government. Its easy to take an example of absolute poverty and say "Aren't we lucky?" Well not if we have to live here, in Ireland, and whatever money we have doesn't cut it. You can't defend our health system, its a joke, bottom of the class in Europe. Just because you get seen here without insurance doesn't mean the treatment is better or that its cheaper, not unless you have a medical card, and the waiting lists are long and the treatments are hack jobs a lot of the time.

Btw FG and Labour are the ones that intoduced the free fees you are highlighting, and had the first surpluses in the state's history afaik.

Hope your wife gets better galway rush.

road_high

betafrog wrote: »

The only ones with any real notion of whats going on are FF,
:D:Dif they could cull half the party and bring in fresh blood it would be a very strong party.

Are you in the same country as thae rest of us. They don't have any fresh young blood that I can see, just the same has beens now. The Lenihan family for instance. What a bloody joke.

Anybody but Cowen as Taoiseach (not that we'd even know he's there these days :rolleyes:).

Ace2007

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Oh, people are as much to blame as govenrment. This is ehy I got out.

And you STILL haven't answered comments about why FF never invested in infrastructure, such as schools, hospitals and public transport, where EVERYONE woudl have benefited, not just the rich. Why was the cancer scheme scrapped? Why weren't shools upgraded as promised? Nothing to do with personal spending ffs.

the health system is in a mess and would need 10 years to fully sort itself out - but in order to sort it out radical measures will have to be taken and nobody whether FF or FG is going to take these measures cause they will just lose their jobs. So have who you like in power - its not going to change.

The argument of the school class sizes is just rubbish - when i went to school there were 30+ in the room - did no one any harm, if you go further and say look at some of the big private schools in the country - one could have 100+ in a room learning for the most "important" exam of their lives.

Public transport - meh - i don't really know too much about - over the last number of years - the port tunnel has being opened, there are numerous motorways which cut the time travelling, the rail system within dublin has dramtically imporved.

I'm not on here to defend the government - my main argument was that people's spending is as much to blame as the government's.

brianthebard

Did no one any harm? 40% of the population is illiterate or semi illiterate. FFS its clear you'll only hear what you want, but there's a point after which even the most obedient sheep has to wonder wtf are they agreeing with.

Ace2007

brianthebard wrote: »

WTF? I don't have any of things tbh, and free education isn't that free you know. But keep covering your eyes to the failures of the government. Its easy to take an example of absolute poverty and say "Aren't we lucky?" Well not if we have to live here, in Ireland, and whatever money we have doesn't cut it. You can't defend our health system, its a joke, bottom of the class in Europe. Just because you get seen here without insurance doesn't mean the treatment is better or that its cheaper, not unless you have a medical card, and the waiting lists are long and the treatments are hack jobs a lot of the time.

Btw FG and Labour are the ones that intoduced the free fees you are highlighting, and had the first surpluses in the state's history afaik.

Hope your wife gets better galway rush.

i never defended the health system and personally i believe that student should pay for their 3rd level education.

Look at any country in the world - and then compare it to Ireland over the last 10 years - and show me how great they are given everything - their size, population, economy, education, health system, etc -

galwayrush

Ace2007 wrote: »

I'm not on here to defend the government - my main argument was that people's spending is as much to blame as the government's.

I do agree that many people did lose the run of themselves, spend spend spend, esp with credit, but the goverment certainly encouraged it between the ssia's and the property bubble. with special tax rebates, esp on capital gains, we were building 50 000 houses, up to 70,000 and one year over 90,000 housing units despite the country only needing 33-35,000 units per anum.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Ace2007 wrote: »

the health system is in a mess and would need 10 years to fully sort itself out - but in order to sort it out radical measures will have to be taken and nobody whether FF or FG is going to take these measures cause they will just lose their jobs. So have who you like in power - its not going to change.

....and who let it get this way in the first place, and why didn't do something about it ten years ago?

The argument of the school class sizes is just rubbish - when i went to school there were 30+ in the room - did no one any harm, if you go further and say look at some of the big private schools in the country - one could have 100+ in a room learning for the most "important" exam of their lives.

Where did I say classes? I was referring to supplies. Schools promised buildsings instead of prefabs years ago, then being tolf to **** off when the money was available?

Public transport - meh - i don't really know too much about - over the last number of years - the port tunnel has being opened, there are numerous motorways which cut the time travelling, the rail system within dublin has dramtically imporved.

Funnist sh1t I've read in a long time!!
I said PUBLIC transport. Not PERSONAL transport. In what ways has the rain system in Dublin "Dramatically improved"?
How about the buses? The metro? The fact that we STILL don't have an integrated ticket in the capital (EVERYWHERE ELSE IN EUROPE HAS MANAGED IT!!!)

I'm not on here to defend the government - my main argument was that people's spending is as much to blame as the government's.

Then why are you defedning it? As stated, I agree with out about ridiculous levels of personal spending, but there were also ridiculous levels of unwise govt spending as well.

Ace2007

A change of government is not going to change anything,

I don't think anyone realised the task of building the metro involves - the plans where drawn up - then people lodged objections regarding the route - i know people who were going to go to court about it - the route then got changed then obv the people on the new route where up in arms - they then lodged objections, god only knows where its at, atm.

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

In what ways has the rain system in Dublin "Dramatically improved"?
How about the buses? The metro? The fact that we STILL don't have an integrated ticket in the capital (EVERYWHERE ELSE IN EUROPE HAS MANAGED IT!!)

rain system - not sure what your smoking,

The problem with the buses lies with the amount of cars on the road - its simple if dublin city centre was car free then buses would run smoothly - In london i believe one has to pay to drive throught town.

rogue-entity

Ace2007 wrote: »

What would any other government do different. The government need to raise money/cut spending - no matter what section they choose, there is going to be uproar - so come on you anti Fianna Fail supporters - tell me what areas that spending cuts should be made in? and i'll bet you anything whatever the first person says - someone will disagree with.

How about cutting all the perks the ministers are getting... I mean they have the cheek to slap a pay levy on low-income workers, and maintain a rediculously high rate of VAT, and still let the rich get away with paying less tax than the rest of us, and they still get to keep their high salaries.

galwayrush wrote: »

Cut the number of TD's, Senators.
Cull the excess of non productive pen pushers.
Stop wasting money on e-voting, we're still paying massive storage costs for it.
Stop paying bonus to top earners in the HSE when clearly their management is not working.
Get rid of most of the Quangos, most of them were created by FF.
Close the loopholes that help very rich people avoid tax.
Appoint people who can manage projects properly, eg, Dublin Port Tunnel,who the hell was accountable for the massive over-run on the cost? I expect those idiots got a pay bonus as well.

+1

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Ace2007 wrote: »

A change of government is not going to change anything,

I don't think anyone realised the task of building the metro involves - the plans where drawn up - then people lodged objections regarding the route - i know people who were going to go to court about it - the route then got changed then obv the people on the new route where up in arms - they then lodged objections, god only knows where its at, atm.




rain system - not sure what your smoking,

The problem with the buses lies with the amount of cars on the road - its simple if dublin city centre was car free then buses would run smoothly - In london i believe one has to pay to drive throught town.

Stop being pedantic and backup your comment about the RAIL question. I could have told you about car-free Dublin back inthe 90s. And if I could see it, the govt could have seen it.

A change of govt might not solve everything, but it migh t stop FFfrom ****ing everything else up. The ****ed up when they had money and I can;t see things changing when they DON'T have money.