Deputies Deasy and Mitchell's comments in the media

Grizzly 45

Small thought here.
As far as I am concerned now these criminals are affecting ME! and YOU!
How so?Well I doubt any of you use Coke or Hash,and if you do please hand in your guns ASAP as you have no busisness being in possesion of same and go seek some addiction counciling!

For the rest of us,these scumbags are now endangering our way of life and privilidge of owning a handgun or whatever firearm here by legal means.Every time they use an illegal handgun or shotgun or whatever..It is you and me that will suffer.By being whipped and flogged by the media as being lumped in with the criminals.By politicans on the make to garner their self serving vote gathering exercise by lumping us into a dangerous category and somthing must be "done" about gun crime.And the Gardai who are afraid that they might one day have to face one iof these illegally aquired or stolen firearms.
I,for one am sick of this situation..So maybe it would be a an idea for us to use these points for the start of a PR campain that we can use to turn this around that we are affected as well??
Discuss.

Sikamick

Commisioner Murphy Quote: People have been driving around to see if there are gun dogs outside the house and they know there are shotguns," he said.

_________________________________________________________________

Should people be aware that own a gun dog breed and are not involved in shotgun shooting sports that they are at risk according to above.

I know a number of farmers that keep gun dogs as pets and don't have a firearm should they also be worried about being robbed because of the above statement.

Sikamick

Our man in Havana

I has 9 dogs, so they better be prepared if they decide to take me on!

G17

Sorry to bump but does anyone know when/if the FCP are due to meet again. Is there a way to call an emergency session? Who invites whom?

Mech1

I own a glock 17 pistol. it can fire 9mm bullets. i use it at an authorised range only.

I own a Ducati 996 motorcycle. it can do 180 mph. i use it on the road within the speed limits. I use it on a track for sport.

i own a Porsche 911 turbo. and use it on the road within the speed limits. I use it on a track for sport.

all are very dangerous in the wrong situation. But in a controlled / designed / licenced environment very very safe.

if Only the powers that be would realise, i could continue to enjoy my sports.

If anyone was to steal any of my well protected sports equipment, why should it be a hinderance to the sport in general.

I personally think that the car is the most dangerous to public safety in the wrong hands.

I can park it anywhere.

I Vote.

G17

http://www.wexfordecho.ie/news/story/?trs=mhaugbojkf&cat=news

It wasn't me!

Is he also saying .270 is still the largest calibre allowed for deer? Vastly outdated I would have thought?

Sparks

From the Irish Times letters page:

Gun licences and crime rates
Madam, - On a recent RTÉ news report, Garda Commissioner Murphy said some gardaí were issuing firearms certificates for legally held handguns while others were attempting to remove similar firearms from criminals.

The direct juxtaposition of firearms legally held by citizens (all of whom have been thoroughly vetted by local Garda superintendents), with criminals' illegal firearms shows an abysmal quality of thought by our most senior Garda, particularly when the definitive evidence shows no connection between these entirely separate groups.

As a holder of firearms certificates for over 30 years, I strongly resent the connection suggested by the Garda Commissioner. - Yours, etc,

Madam, - John Deasy TD is concerned that many people hold licensed firearms and - coincidently - criminals use firearms. He needs to be more imaginative in his crime control efforts.

There have been thousands of crimes in the State where cars and motorbikes have been used as "getaway" vehicles. Privately owned vehicles should be banned, removing this easy option for criminals. More worrying, anyone, even a man, can buy a pair of ladies' tights over the counter for use as a stocking mask, with no background check or investigation as to their need for such an item. There must be millions of unregistered tights in circulation.

This is clearly worrying and perhaps an area Mr Deasy could investigate. - Yours, etc,

Phototoxin

I own a glock 17 pistol. it can fire 9mm bullets. i use it at an authorised range only.

TERRORIST!

I agree its gone a bit mental. Though the commisioner for an garda shickiloní was on about 'firearms' in realtion to limerick. I didn' get if he was saying 'I WANT THEM' or there are too many..

Grizzly 45

Funnily enough in all our local papers in Limerick that I have seen.Not one editorial has said anything about banning any firearms!!
I was expecting the papers to be full of calls for bans on handguns.
Nor has there been anything from our local or TDs
No,it has been all the nationals and dalies,or TDs outside Limerick .
Oh Well! Maybe next week:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Red Renard

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Funnily enough in all our local papers in Limerick that I have seen.Not one editorial has said anything about banning any firearms!!
I was expecting the papers to be full of calls for bans on handguns.
Nor has there been anything from our local or TDs
No,it has been all the nationals and dalies,or TDs outside Limerick .
Oh Well! Maybe next week:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I think Grizzly you're local papers are that little bit closer to the cutting edge.The facts on the ground speak for themselves. Perhaps the nationals should take a look and a reality check at what the real danger is rather than take easy safe options. They know where they are after all, licensed
firearms that is.

CLADA

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So maybe it would be a an idea for us to use these points for the start of a PR campain that we can use to turn this around that we are affected as well??
Discuss.

If you are using those points for a PR campaign, the impression I got was:

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

As far as I am concerned now these criminals are affecting ME! and YOU!
these scumbags are now endangering our way of life and privilidge of owning a handgun or whatever firearm here by legal means.

My fellow citizens being robbed and murdered is one thing. But what about your average firearms licence holder, we're the real victims.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

And the Gardai who are afraid that they might one day have to face one iof these illegally aquired or stolen firearms.

Of course they fear the prospect of being threatened with a firearm, it happens regularly but is only reported by the media when a firearm is discharged.

---

The controversy at the moment is mostly about handguns. The pistol clubs around the country should be proactive in getting anti-gun politicians into their ranges for "Open Days".

It's a sport, show them how you compete, the different age groups, the strict range guidelines, the security and care of the weapon.

Invite the local "Super", if the politicians are going to be there, so will he.
The local Superintendent has a Garda district to manage and unfortunately for gun sport enthusiasts, you are way down on his list of priorities. The majority of Superintendents have no knowledge or interest in handguns in sporting context. They just associate them with robbery and killing.

Maybe you're doing this already, just a thought.

Red Renard

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Politics_in_Sweden
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Norway
http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/article-knabbenschiessen/swiss_teen_rifle_festival.html



http://www.nitsa.org.uk/

tonysopprano

Any observations on reply below, before I email it
All constructive criticism accepted.[

Olivia, if you had read my initial email before sending out your form reply, you would have seen that my primary interest is in pistols
[
In response to your reply to my initial email, could you please clarify the highlighted queries below

From: olivia.mitchell@oireachtas.ie [mailto:olivia.mitchell@oireachtas.ie]
Sent: 13 November 2008 14:11
To: Subject: Re: [SPAM] Fine Gael's Attack on Licensed Firearm Holders


Dear ,

Thank you for your email. I'm sure it is true that only a small proportion of legally held guns end up in the hands of criminals. (Could you please quote the figures that this statement is based on. We (Shooting Clubs and Associations) have tabled many Dail questions over the past 3 years asking this but have been told every time that it would take too much garda time to correlate)

I do believe though that .societies that have a proliferation of guns, more specifically handguns, also tend to have higher gun crime. I accept too that that may not be true in every case. (Great Britan has seen a 500% rise in gun crime since introducing it’s ban. Scandanavian countries have the highest per capita firearm ownership but the lowest crime rates. There is no correlation between LEGAL firearms ownership and crime.)

I should point out however, and I apologise if I gave any other impression, that I was speaking merely about handguns (My primary concern. See my initial email)
and not about shotguns that would be in common use amongst the rural community.

The reason this matter came to the fore as you are probably aware, was where in two cases superintendents refusing gun licences, had judicial reviews brought against them. In each case the superintendents' decision was overturned. (WRONG. As per 1925 Firearms Act and amendments, the Superintendent is PERSONA DESIGNATA and cannot be overturned. In both of these cases the application was returned to the Superintendent for review on points of law (in one case where the Superintendent was prepared to license a firearm of larger caliber)

Information made available to the party by members of the Gardaí indicated that there was a) inconsistency across the country in terms of the ease of obtaining a handgun licence(Something we have been complaining about for years and one thing that the FCP was set up to investigate

and b) Gardaí were aware of handgun licence applications where there was no obvious reason for the applicant to actually own a gun, (Should have been refused and if it was granted then Superintendent is in breach of his duty under 1925 Firearms Act and Ammendments. Where is this information coming from? Disgruntled member who is questioning Superintendent.

and c) that ownership of one gun gave almost automatic entitlement to further licences. (As per the High Court decision, the 1925 Firearms Act and Ammendments apply to the individual being licensed not the firearm.If a person can demonstrate a need for subsequent firearms and the Superintendent is happy, this should not be a concern. Again from whom is this information coming from. If it is from a disgruntled member of the Garda, is it not against the law and Garda code of discipline for a member to leak information to politicians.

I certainly never intended to imply that the vast majority of gun owners held them for anything other than legitimate sporting purposes. (Maybe in not as many words, but your colleague Mr Deasy certainly did)

I can also assure you that no member of the public that I have spoken to interpreted what was said as a suggestion that owners of legally held guns obtained those guns for nefarious purposes.(You must not have been talking to many people then)

I am more than aware of the many active sporting gun clubs in the country, including in my own constituency, and I wish them continuing success. (Your anti-firearm sentiments are very apparent especially when you consider the recent controversy over the attempt to RE-OPEN a firing range at Ticknock, where you deemed it more proper to offer your support to LAW BREAKERS (Those people, amongst them mountainbikers and motorbike scramblers, etc) who were in breach of the law by using Coillte property for their specified pursuits, as well as trespassing on private property.[/FONT]

Kind regards,



_________________________________________________________
Olivia Mitchell TD
Dublin South Constituency & Fine Gael Spokesperson on Arts, Sport and Tourism
Leinster House
Kildare Street
Dublin 2.

Tel: (01) 6183088 - Fax: (01) 6184579
Email: olivia.mitchell@oireachtas.ie
Website: www.oliviamitchell.finegael.ie

riflehunter77

tonysopprano wrote: »

Any observations on reply below, before I email it
All constructive criticism accepted.[

Olivia, if you had read my initial email before sending out your form reply, you would have seen that my primary interest is in pistols
[
In response to your reply to my initial email, could you please clarify the highlighted queries below

From: olivia.mitchell@oireachtas.ie [mailto:olivia.mitchell@oireachtas.ie]
Sent: 13 November 2008 14:11
To: Subject: Re: [SPAM] Fine Gael's Attack on Licensed Firearm Holders


Dear ,

Thank you for your email. I'm sure it is true that only a small proportion of legally held guns end up in the hands of criminals.(Could you please quote the figures that this statement is based on. We (Shooting Clubs and Associations) have tabled many Dail questions over the past 3 years asking this but have been told every time that it would take too much garda time to correlate)

I do believe though that .societies that have a proliferation of guns, more specifically handguns, also tend to have higher gun crime. I accept too that that may not be true in every case.(Great Britan has seen a 500% rise in gun crime since introducing it’s ban. Scandanavian countries have the highest per capita firearm ownership but the lowest crime rates. There is no correlation between LEGAL firearms ownership and crime.)

I should point out however, and I apologise if I gave any other impression, that I was speaking merely about handguns(My primary concern. See my initial email)
and not about shotguns that would be in common use amongst the rural community.

The reason this matter came to the fore as you are probably aware, was where in two cases superintendents refusing gun licences, had judicial reviews brought against them. In each case the superintendents' decision was overturned.(WRONG. As per 1925 Firearms Act and amendments, the Superintendent is PERSONA DESIGNATA and cannot be overturned. In both of these cases the application was returned to the Superintendent for review on points of law (in one case where the Superintendent was prepared to license a firearm of larger caliber)

Information made available to the party by members of the Gardaí indicated that there was a) inconsistency across the country in terms of the ease of obtaining a handgun licence(Something we have been complaining about for years and one thing that the FCP was set up to investigate

and b) Gardaí were aware of handgun licence applications where there was no obvious reason for the applicant to actually own a gun,(Should have been refused and if it was granted then Superintendent is in breach of his duty under 1925 Firearms Act and Ammendments. Where is this information coming from? Disgruntled member who is questioning Superintendent.

and c) that ownership of one gun gave almost automatic entitlement to further licences.(As per the High Court decision, the 1925 Firearms Act and Ammendments apply to the individual being licensed not the firearm.If a person can demonstrate a need for subsequent firearms and the Superintendent is happy, this should not be a concern. Again from whom is this information coming from. If it is from a disgruntled member of the Garda, is it not against the law and Garda code of discipline for a member to leak information to politicians.

I certainly never intended to imply that the vast majority of gun owners held them for anything other than legitimate sporting purposes.(Maybe in not as many words, but your colleague Mr Deasy certainly did)

I can also assure you that no member of the public that I have spoken to interpreted what was said as a suggestion that owners of legally held guns obtained those guns for nefarious purposes.(You must not have been talking to many people then)

I am more than aware of the many active sporting gun clubs in the country, including in my own constituency, and I wish them continuing success. (Your anti-firearm sentiments are very apparent especially when you consider the recent controversy over the attempt to RE-OPEN a firing range at Ticknock, where you deemed it more proper to offer your support to LAW BREAKERS (Those people, amongst them mountainbikers and motorbike scramblers, etc) who were in breach of the law by using Coillte property for their specified pursuits, as well as trespassing on private property.[/FONT]

Kind regards,



_________________________________________________________
Olivia Mitchell TD
Dublin South Constituency & Fine Gael Spokesperson on Arts, Sport and Tourism
Leinster House
Kildare Street
Dublin 2.

Tel: (01) 6183088 - Fax: (01) 6184579
Email: olivia.mitchell@oireachtas.ie
Website: www.oliviamitchell.finegael.ie

Fair play to you tony some good pionts there, I will like us all here be keen to see her response to this e mail. I have seen that she has sent out a standard reply to a few of the lads who sent emails. This one she might actullay have to read and put a bit of thought into her responce.

thehair

i have read throught the 133 post on here and god help the media monsters
and the 2 Fine Gael's boyo if they ever found out that there is more than
one maker of handgun and his name is not MR GLOCK:eek: i do not have or
own a pistol . the people that have a PISTOL USED FOR THERE SPORT must
have spend a lot of money on them now it is looking like lets pick on the
pistol this YEAR and next YEAR CENTREFIRE RIFLES AND THEN RINFIRE RIFLES
AND ALL AIR RIFLES and then we can all sleep better at night:) am i losing
fait about the FCP a bit i have a cz 452 rinfire i have TWO SAFES AND NEW
DOORS AND WINDOWS (it is cold down in mayo) their is to much BAD media
out the last 6 months IT IS NO JOKE steve

rrpc

thehair wrote: »

am i losing fait about the FCP a bit

Just because the members of the FCP aren't posting on boards doesn't mean they're sitting on their hands doing nothing.

The NTSA alone has written pages and pages of emails to interested parties including all members of the PAC. The NARGC are hard at work in the same vein and that's only the tip of the iceberg.

Red Renard

Common sense in a gun debate in the Scottish Parliament!!

May 7th, 2008 Ian Posted in Ban's, Gun Crime, Gun Law, Politics No Comments »
I was stunned to read the following words during a debate in the Scottish Parliament.
Tragically, since 1998 hundreds of murders, attempted murders and robberies have involved pistols and revolvers. As all members know, the vast majority of such weapons have already been banned. Banning the guns did not prevent the crimes. It would be a mistake to confuse legally held firearms with the illegally held firearms that are all too often used to commit crimes. We all know about the increasing number of concerning incidents involving air-guns. However, the problem is not the legally held weapons. It is the illegally held weapons that we ought to focus on

PJ Hunter

Red Renard wrote: »

Common sense in a gun debate in the Scottish Parliament!!

May 7th, 2008 Ian Posted in Ban's, Gun Crime, Gun Law, Politics No Comments »
I was stunned to read the following words during a debate in the Scottish Parliament.
Tragically, since 1998 hundreds of murders, attempted murders and robberies have involved pistols and revolvers. As all members know, the vast majority of such weapons have already been banned. Banning the guns did not prevent the crimes. It would be a mistake to confuse legally held firearms with the illegally held firearms that are all too often used to commit crimes. We all know about the increasing number of concerning incidents involving air-guns. However, the problem is not the legally held weapons. It is the illegally held weapons that we ought to focus on

the biggest mistake is to seen reacting under pressure by the people thats causing all the murder and mayhem on our streets. no amount of banning will change the reality. its our democracy and its worth standing up for by not punishing the wrong people. Our founding fathers would be sick in their graves at the taughts of it. what if the people who take the drugs in the first place got singled out to the same degree then
you can say something been done.

Traumadoc

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=IRELAND-qqqm=nav-qqqid=37599-qqqx=1.asp

"just 11 handguns " no breakdown of types - airpistols .22, 9mm or the evil glocks

dresden8

PJ Hunter wrote: »

Our founding fathers

One too many American forums methinks.

ironsight

Considering that Ireland as a Country was born as a result of an Armed Insurection by the people, I would have thought that our Government would have some small insight as to what arm's regulations woudl be sensible.

What is it that the American's have taken to quoting of late,
The people should not fear the Government,
The Government should fear the people..:mad:

PJ Hunter

dresden8 wrote: »

One too many American forums methinks.

methinks. Shakespeare. public sector alright. Dev and Mick remember.

Grizzly 45

Fear the Govt that fears your guns.Might be more appropriate.:mad:

Because alot of this problem is caused by fear on the Govts part.
Fear of Paramilitarties arming themselves off the pouplation[That old chestnut],now transformed into fear of criminals nicking legally held firearms.Or somone letting their dog off the chain and checking out a chipper someplace.
Pass the fear on thru the willing flunkies of the press,who make a living of peddling bad news, that the sheeple are all likely to be massacred in their droves by people the Gardai are "powerless" to not liscense in the first place.
So there you poision the sheeple against us as well,that we are either criminals /nutters ready to blow any second.
Keep people frightned,and be seen to be "doing somthing" and guess what?You keep them distracted somwhat from the REAL problems in life.Like that they wont have any jobs soon.,and that the arse is falling out of the boom times.
Marvellous bit of social engineering going on here.:(
Anyways Rant over...More importantly,apart from letters to eds.Is there anything WE as joe Gunowner can do to make our case more strongly???

Sparks

Traumadoc wrote: »

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=IRELAND-qqqm=nav-qqqid=37599-qqqx=1.asp
"just 11 handguns " no breakdown of types - airpistols .22, 9mm or the evil glocks

Sent this morning:

Dear Ms. Rickard,
Could you perhaps explain how John Burke can write that Gardai are
"powerless" to refuse to licence firearms given what I detailed to you
below? The information I sent you on Tuesday points out that the
Firearms Act itself *directly contradicts* what you printed today.
Yours in Sport,

Sparks wrote:

> Yes, to several others.

Cheryl Rickard wrote:

>> Has your letter been sent to any other publications please?

Sparks, original email wrote:

>> Dear Editor,
>> In recent weeks, Deputies Deasy and Mitchell and others have engaged in
>> scaremongering on a widespread scale in the media, saying that there has
>> been a massive rise in the licencing of pistols, and attempting to link this
>> alleged rise to the recent rise in levels of gun crime. As a licenced
>> firearms owner, I wish to offer the following counterpoints:
>>
>> (*) The number of pistols licenced in Ireland per capita has fallen by 20%
>> since 1971.
>>
>> (*) Since 1971, our firearms laws have been tightened three times, making
>> ours the most restrictive laws in the EU.
>>
>> (*) Every single licenced firearm in Ireland is licenced to someone who
>> was personally approved as safe to own and use that firearm by a Garda
>> Superintendent.
>>
>> (*) Garda Superintendents have exceptionally wide-ranging powers when it
>> comes to granting or refusing licences. They can - and do - require gun
>> safes, home inspections, house alarms, access to medical records,
>> proficiency courses and membership of authorised firearms ranges.
>>
>> (*) Firearms ranges are also inspected and authorised by the Gardai, to
>> exceptionally high construction and safety standards. Many firearms ranges
>> have spent tens of thousands of euros to come up to the Gardai requirements
>> over the past two years.
>>
>> (*) While there is a distinct difference in how many pistol licences are
>> granted by different Garda Districts, this is caused by the requirement to
>> be a member of an approved range - more licences are granted in areas closer
>> to approved ranges.
>>
>> (*) In 2007 the Gardai, the Department of Justice, the Irish Sports
>> Council, the governing bodies of target shooting sports, firearms dealers
>> and other stakeholders, all came together to found the Firearms Consultation
>> Panel under the aegis of the Minister for Justice. This groundbreaking body
>> allows all parties to find safe, efficient, well-informed solutions to the
>> concerns of those who use firearms and those who draft and those who enforce
>> firearms law.
>>
>> In short, the concerns that Deputies Deasy and Mitchell and others have
>> attempted to raise are not based on facts or statistics or current
>> procedures, and serve no useful function other than to scaremonger in the
>> lead-up to the local elections. This is a shameful act on their part.
>>
>> Yours in Sport,

José Alaninho

Small article in this weeks Clare Champion. Increase in handgun licenses granted in Clare: 13 in Ennis, 5 in Ennistymon, I think 12 in Kilrush / Kilkee (didn't get a good read). Most of the piece taken up with local garda rep explaining how difficult it is to obtain a handgun, and the safety precautions taken with applicants. Not a bad report IMO.

PJ Hunter

I got bitten years ago notto tell a lie on the arse of all places. local
IFA were able to send round help till i recovered. is the IFa involved on this fcp committee in any way.

packas

All,

See attached. Some positive points in them

Sparks

Yes, the IFA's on the FCP commitee.

Sparks

Congratulations everyone, we're now officially organised :rolleyes:
Form the Irish Examiner:

TDs receive ‘hate emails’ after gun debate

By Shaun Connolly, Political Correspondent
HARDCORE gun enthusiasts have subjected TDs demanding tighter firearms controls to a campaign of abuse, it emerged last night.


Fine Gael TDs John Deasy and Olivia Mitchell are among deputies receiving “hate emails”.

The emails came after they spoke out in favour of a clampdown on handgun licensing.

Mr Deasy described the emails as “downright nasty” and believes the campaign against TDs is a coordinated one.


Fine Gael frontbench spokeswoman Olivia Mitchell received abusive correspondence after appearing on RTÉ’s Questions and Answers, on which she expressed concern about the availability of the weapons.

Mr Deasy has been a leading campaigner for tighter gun control and is alarmed that the number of legally held handguns has increased six-fold since 2004, which he blames on a series of legal rulings which have loosened restrictions on the firearms.

With 1,850 licensed handguns in Ireland, Mr Deasy says his concern has seen him targeted by gun extremists.

“As a TD, you are used to fairly harsh language but this was different. I’d characterise the emails as abusive, extremely disingenuous and very personal. The handgun lobby is trying to make out that I am trying to restrict firearms generally. I’m not. This is about handguns only.

“As far as the handgun lobby is concerned, if they think that myself and some of my colleagues are going to be quietened by nasty emails, they are making a big mistake. I believe that while we are intent on keeping our police force unarmed, we shouldn’t be arming the public with handguns.

“There should be a total ban on these weapons with strict exceptions agreed upon by the gardaí.

“I don’t think these emails are representative of the target shooting club membership around the country. At least, I hope they aren’t,” he said.

Garda Commissioner Fachtna Murphy told the Dáil Public Accounts Committee last week new guidelines were needed on the issuing of handgun licenses.

“On one hand, we have to license Glock pistols, while on the other hand we are seizing Glock pistols from criminals who are going around the country utilising those things for killing individuals,” said the commissioner.