Deputies Deasy and Mitchell's comments in the media

rrpc

Rovi wrote: »

Frank Brophy was on Morning Ireland (RTE Radio 1) earlier, refuting some of the sensationalist hysteria.
He did pretty well, I thought.

About what time?

Sparks

The Indo jumps right off the deep end into sillyness:

Fears legal guns ending up in hands of criminals
By Michael Brennan Political Correspondent
Friday November 14 2008

THE Garda Commissioner is powerless to stop the increase in the number of legally held handguns -- which could be ending up in the hands of criminals.

The number of licensed handguns has increased from just one in 2003 to 1,800 now due to a relaxation in the licensing rules.

Garda Commissioner Fachtna Murphy yesterday said he was unable to give guidelines on the issuing of firearms licences to his superintendents -- and the courts were often over- ruling their refusal decisions.

"On the one hand, we have to licence Glock pistols; and on the other hand, we are seeing known criminals using these Glock pistols to kill people," he said.

According to figures from the Department of Justice, there are also 53,000 rifles and 77,000 shotguns in private ownership -- giving an overall ratio of one gun for every 17 people in the country.

Cmsr Murphy told the Public Accounts committee that careless private gun owners were inadvertently providing some of the firearms being used by gangland criminals. "I'm appalled on occasions to see where four and five shotguns have been stolen from houses. People have been driving around to see if there are gun dogs outside the house and they know there are shotguns," he said.

During the Troubles it was very difficult for private individuals to get licences for handguns in excess of .22 calibre. But the situation has changed due the lifting of a government order and a more permissive attitude to gun licensing in the courts.

Stolen

Cmsr Murphy said that gardai had seized around 800 firearms last year, many of which had been imported illegally but also some which had been stolen from legal owners who stored them "under the table".

"A lot of shotguns used in criminality are stolen. It's incumbent on anybody who has a legal firearm to take precautions," he said.

He is in discussions with Justice Minister Dermot Ahern about whether legislation is needed to allow him to issue guidelines on weapons permits.

Fine Gael TD John Deasy, who got his colleague Jim O'Keeffe to bring up the issue at the committee, welcomed Cmsr Murphy's contribution.

- Michael Brennan Political Correspondent

Daft as a fscking brush.

Rovi

rrpc wrote: »

About what time?

Sometime between 7.30 and 8.00; my recollection is hazy

Sparks

Was texted by the ould fella about that alright, but missed it. His take wasn't as complimentary though, he thought frank fluffed it. Mind you, I've not heard it yet so I'm reserving judgement till I have something to judge, but it's interesting to hear how a non-firearms owner read it.

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

Was texted by the ould fella about that alright, but missed it. His take wasn't as complimentary though, he thought frank fluffed it. Mind you, I've not heard it yet so I'm reserving judgement till I have something to judge, but it's interesting to hear how a non-firearms owner read it.

Can't find it :mad:

Rovi

Sparks wrote: »

Was texted by the ould fella about that alright, but missed it. His take wasn't as complimentary though, he thought frank fluffed it.

Well... he probably could have done better I suppose, but I'm not going to be too critical as I know what it's like to be under the spotlight with a professional interviewer. I've done a little bit of that sort of thing in another area of my life, and it ain't easy.
As you've often said before, that's the sort of thing a properly trained and briefed PRO type person should be put forward for.

Rovi

rrpc wrote: »

Can't find it :mad:

I'm sure it'll appear here in due course-
http://www.rte.ie/news/morningireland/

rrpc

Rovi wrote: »

I'm sure it'll appear here in due course-
http://www.rte.ie/news/morningireland/

I've been rooting thrugh the stream for the last twenty minutes. Nothing coming up.

rrpc

Found it, 22 minutes in

rrpc

Not as bad as your father made out Sparks, although he accused the Commissioner of 'losing the plot' which is a bit harsh IMO. Especially since some of the reports misquoted him or paraphrased him incorrectly.

Rovi

It's on the Morning Ireland archive page now, fourth item down-
http://www.rte.ie/news/morningireland/

Sparks

[URL="rtsp://od2.rte.ie/2008/1114/14112008rte-morningireland.ra"]rtsp://od2.rte.ie/2008/1114/14112008rte-morningireland.ra[/URL]
0:22:38

Sparks

Didn't think Frank was one of our founder members, but it does show again that the Olympic name is useful

Not a bad performance, especially for that early on a friday morning. And yeah, the whole "national radio" thing is a bit intimidating.
Mind you, the comparisons with the UK weren't really apropos, and I think he let the interviewer go on and on about the situation in Limerick a fair bit. Which I think is what the ould fella was on about. But managing an interviewer, especially a top-of-the-line professional like that, it's not a trivial task.

diverdriver

If I could offer a criticism, it would be that he failed to emphasise the difficulty in obtaining a pistol licence and the security measures required to keep one. Most owners are required to have Eircom phonewatch. Any member of the public listening might get the idea that Glocks are kept in bedside lockers or something like that. That should have been emphasised. Equally the figure of 2000 handguns were mentioned. Again you could take from that, that there are 2000 people out there wandering around with pistols in their pocket.

My reading of this is that there is a concerted move on someone or some group's part to roll back the licensing of handguns. Look at Mitchell's comments where she linked licensed firearms to illegal firearms. Then the commisioner's comments where he did much the same. Then there's the distorted statistics used to bolster the case. I suspect that certain politicians are being 'briefed' by the Garda commisioner in order set up a climate where the licences are rescinded. Deasy popped up again in the Irish Independant article.

The cynical and deliberate linking of the recent Limerick murder and licensed gun owners is opportunistic. This won't be the last we hear of this.

PJ Hunter

People have been driving around to see if there are gun dogs outside the house and they know there are shotguns," Cmsr Murphy quote.

Has the country gone to the dogs. Whats the state of affairs when a dog breed gives the gun away. I keep mine at the backyard the mad mongrel covers the front. The countrysides no stranger to wandering
thief and robbers has it gotten worse or that bad but one thing those who put the firearms section on the back of licence renewal envelope this summer were as bad as the pointer been lashed to the front gate.:mad:

gofaster_s13

PJ Hunter wrote: »

People have been driving around to see if there are gun dogs outside the house and they know there are shotguns," Cmsr Murphy quote.

Has the country gone to the dogs. Whats the state of affairs when a dog breed gives the gun away. I keep mine at the backyard the mad mongrel covers the front. The countrysides no stranger to wandering
thief and robbers has it gotten worse or that bad but one thing those who put the firearms section on the back of licence renewal envelope this summer were as bad as the pointer been lashed to the front gate.:mad:

Yep, our postman is a fecker for robbing guns

kerryman12

Got the same reply as the rest from Ms Mitchell

meathstevie

Got the same reply as well. I honestly can't see the argument for long gun: good - handgun : bad in the context of legal use and ownership. I don't have much of a personal interest in pistols but I can understand someone's love for target shooting quite well although it doesn't rock my boat.

On the other hand it looks like Enda Kenny, credit for that, wants his party to get stuck in and go on a serious fact finding mission in the world of legal handguns. I hope our pistol shooting brethren takes up the offer and gives the FG'ers a quality sample of responsible gun ownership, show them business as usual that is.

Sikamick

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

Yep, our postman is a fecker for robbing guns

gofaster_s13, I would think that more than you local postman gets to see your post, i.e. local post office, main sorting office, accidental post to your Neighbors, scum bag mugging your postman, mailbox being robbed.

All of these possibilities leave open the licensed firearms holder to risk by putting return to Firearms section, Pheonix Park Garda HQ on the envelope.

After following the instructions your Garda Super re home security at great expense, your security has been compromised by the person that approved these changes.

Sikamick

Sparks

meathstevie wrote: »

Got the same reply as well. I honestly can't see the argument for long gun: good - handgun : bad in the context of legal use and ownership.

Especially when they take exactly the same ammunition, from the same box most of the time, in both.

On the other hand it looks like Enda Kenny, credit for that, wants his party to get stuck in and go on a serious fact finding mission in the world of legal handguns. I hope our pistol shooting brethren takes up the offer and gives the FG'ers a quality sample of responsible gun ownership, show them business as usual that is.

I think that one's a given, if Deasy and Mitchell do as he's directed them to do. And if they don't, well, what does that say about Fine Gael?

gofaster_s13

Sikamick wrote: »

gofaster_s13, I would think that more than you local postman gets to see your post, i.e. local post office, main sorting office, accidental post to your Neighbors, scum bag mugging your postman, mailbox being robbed.

All of these possibilities leave open the licensed firearms holder to risk by putting return to Firearms section, Pheonix Park Garda HQ on the envelope.

After following the instructions your Garda Super re home security at great expense, your security has been compromised by the person that approved these changes.

Sikamick

Agree fully with what you're saying, was just injecting a small bit of humour:D

Sparks

The Wexford people story and another from the local Athlone paper got mentioned on drivetime just now. The NTSA sent a response into drivetime this afternoon, but they've not mentioned it or tried to call the contact numbers given.

Our man in Havana

Typical. :mad: Surely we have the right of reply?

Sparks

If so, we're not being given it at the moment.
They're currently talking about the gangland crime problem in Limerick. What are the odds we'll get a chunk of the blame?

PJ Hunter

its license shotguns and pistol getting the blame right now for the sexy people with the cocaine habit.they think its not them adding to the misery or the muders, they fill up the warloards pockets with money to bring in more drugs guns rocket launchers but will any media or politicians turn the screw on this pack. The country way of life only matters next election.

meathstevie

PJ Hunter wrote: »

its license shotguns and pistol getting the blame right now for the sexy people with the cocaine habit.they think its not them adding to the misery or the muders, they fill up the warloards pockets with money to bring in more drugs guns rocket launchers but will any media or politicians turn the screw on this pack. The country way of life only matters next election.

PJ, you couldn't make a more correct statement.

It might sound sinister but the violence and murders and the grief they cause are only a symptom of a wider problem you put the finger on. The core problem indeed is people spending money on the product the gangs are flogging and as a result keeping the show on the road. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing a few people caught in possession of a "consumable" quantity of cocaine or e-tabs or whatever being handed down sentences towards the higher end of the scale to hammer the point home.

In the meantime we look like being very much in the spotlight for some bad publicity simply because of the fact that our sporting/recreational equipment is similar to the tools of the criminal trade.

Red Renard

meathstevie wrote: »

PJ, you couldn't make a more correct statement.

It might sound sinister but the violence and murders and the grief they cause are only a symptom of a wider problem you put the finger on. The core problem indeed is people spending money on the product the gangs are flogging and as a result keeping the show on the road. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing a few people caught in possession of a "consumable" quantity of cocaine or e-tabs or whatever being handed down sentences towards the higher end of the scale to hammer the point home.

In the meantime we look like being very much in the spotlight for some bad publicity simply because of the fact that our sporting/recreational equipment is similar to the tools of the criminal trade.

meathstevie wrote: »

PJ, you couldn't make a more correct statement.

meathstevie. I dont think the sporting / farming community have any need yet for equipment like RPG's, AK47's, machine guns armoured BMW's
Yes some farmers should not have the shotgun left out of the safe once
they have finished using it, this does however not make it right that we
should all have to be afraid of marauding gangs of criminals, if things
have gotten that bad I think the ROI is in big trouble. Surly the FCP
should be able to reassure those who think licensed firearms especially
pistols are some easy touch ready for the taking. If this was the case
they would not be made available to license in the first place.

rrpc

Something struck me just now about the constantly bandied about figures of pistols licensed in the state since 2004.

The figure for 2004 has always been quoted as 1, but remember that starting pistols, stun guns, humane killers etc. have always been classified as pistols and no doubt are included in the figures for the years after 2004.

So where were they in 2004 and prior years?

This post gives the figures for firearms thefts from 2002 to 2007 inclusive, and not surprisingly shotguns are by far the largest numbers.

But there were 29 in 2002, 18 in 2003 and a whopping 73 in 2004 when there was only supposed to be 1 handgun licensed in the state in that year.

Does this mean that the one pistol was stolen 73 times?

Our man in Havana

Does this mean that the one pistol was stolen 73 times?

I hope his licence was revoked.

rrpc

Bond-007 wrote: »

I hope his licence was revoked.

Maybe the 74th one was