Deputies Deasy and Mitchell's comments in the media

dimebag249

bunny shooter wrote: »

Media and politicans seem hell bent on demonising legitimate shooters :mad:

Sure why wouldn't they? We're such an easy target. Whatever they say or do, only a couple of legitimate shooters (Sparks' brilliant letters always motivate me to send an angry e-mail) ever fight back. As long as there's no organisation representing all gun-owners in Ireland, we're basically fxxked. Even then there's probably too few of us to make a difference.

I deserve to be flamed for my pessimism, but thus far, nothing has worked. We are better off than we were for years by using the law to our advantage; so they change the law. Attitudes towards the private ownership of firearms have gotten worse, and that's what matters, that's what will decide the fate of our sports.

I had written a much longer rant than this, but censored it to avoid ban hammer.

dimebag249

bunny shooter wrote: »

Tonight I'm gonna e-mail every TD in Leinster house, I have the time and I'm pissed off enough now ! And to those who are sitting back saying sure I don't have a pistol, I'm ok, I am telling you now if they 'ban' pistols what you have will be next in line. So get e-mailing or it WILL be too late.

Thank you, to bunny and to everyone else who wrote to deputies, organisations, papers about this. To everyone who doesn't write, well, you do not deserve the rights you neglect.

meathstevie

Message left on the FG website :

"Dear Sir, Mme,

I am a law abiding owner of three licensed firearms and enjoy a good relation with my local Gardai.
To hear one of your public representatives casually lumping me in with the psychopathic scum responsible for the recent murder in Limerick disgusts me.

I hope this was not a deliberate attempt at labeling legal owners of sporting arms as criminals or the source of serious crime. If it was this would be a sad example of great intellectual dishonesty."

meathstevie

One positive aspect of the whole situation is the remarks of the Gardai in the Wexford paper mentioned earlier on.
They know we aren't a problem but unfortunatley duty prevents them from saying this publicly in a political debate.
I suppose a few politicians can thank the powers that be that some Gardai can't say what they think about them either.

rrpc

Folks

I was telephoned last night by Charlie Flanagan and also received an email from Enda Kenny and Andrew Doyle. I have had a couple of conversations on the telephone with Charlie Flanagan today and he has asked me for a meeting at our earliest convenience.

I will let you know how things transpire.

Thanks. Charlie Flanagan is the Fine Gael spokesman on Justice. I fully understand your position. No statement has issued from the Fine Gael Front Bench about this.

I spoke to Dep Flanagan and asked that he and Dep Deasy attend at a pistol range and actually see just how regulated this sector is.

Hoping he can do so shortly.

Enda Kenny.

I'm quoting this email to let you know that Fine Gael are taking this seriously from the very top. We are sometimes quick to criticise when things go wrong but are often tardy in our praise when things are put right.

tonysopprano

Might be something to do with the amount of correspondence that they have recieved from the shooting fraternity (Read voters at next election)

On another note, Sparks, thanks for the link to the NTSA response, and I hope that you don't mind that I used a cut and paste technique with some other personal stuff added to email every FG TD, Senator and councillor.

fish slapped

Whats going to come out of it ? an apology as public as the Bu**s**t she spued forth on national TV about US, I think not , but if it makes them think twice about opening their mouth and cutting down the Joe SO on the street , then its all worth it.

Grizzly 45

My epistile.


To John Deasy TD,Enda Kenny TD,Oliva MitchellTD,Charles Flannagan TD,
[Via Email]

Dear Sirs & Madam,
As a loyal FG voter over the last 20 years and supporter.I am regetfully removing any support of mine and my vote from your party in any future elections.

I am taking this step as I find it reprehensible statements made by Mrs Mitchell in a Questions and Answers RTE programe last Monday [10/11/2008] in relation to a murder of a fellow Limerick man by criminals.
In this Mrs Mitchell managed to brand in the public eye the most law abiding people in Ireland[gunowners] as potential criminals or as a contributory problem to Irelands murder rate.

I have been shooting since I was 16 years of age [Mr Noonan TD will verify this,if he remembers me from his teaching days in the Cresent,Dooradoyle].I have never associated with any of the criminals that infest Limerick,have no intention do do so ,or any desire to.

However to be branded by three of your colleuges[Mitchell,Flannagan,Deasy] along with many hundreds of law abideing gun owners as a potential threat to the public saftey in the national press and TV media,to gain cheap publicity to show that your party is"doing somthing"or "will do" somthing by jumping on the "ban guns" bandwagon,is the uttermost low of gutter politics that I and many others gun owners can imagine.

How any of these people can consider anyone who has been vetted by their Garda Superintendant to his complete satisfaction,[as he will be held responsible]is no threat to public saftey,has a good reason in the Superintendants eyes to posses a firearm ,is a public danger in their misinformed eyes is sickening in the least.It is bad enough having to jump thru hoops and loops od adding extra security to ones house,backround checks etc.And then to have this shoved in ones face that because a ligitimately owned sporting impliment makes the owner suddenly a danger to all and sundry is discrimination at best. Do your party TDs also consider car owners,golf players,gardners and cooks a public danger???Considering they own impliments that have killed more people in Ireland every year than firearms,maybe they should!!

If this gun banning idea is taking root in FG.Please dont bother sending any canditates to any Irish gunowners doors.We will not be in a very recpetive mood to politicians who vilify us as some sort of public threat or potential criminals!

We are SICK and TIRED of being the easy target for the ills of society by criminals!!!If you want to sort this crime problem,may I suggest you study some history on how the UK police forces broke up the notorious East London crime gangs of the Kray Brothers,etc.They would make this current lot look like boy scouts!

If it is any consolation,I will not vote for any TD ,Senator or Councillor,who espouses anti private gun ownership in public,not just the FG party.It doesn't matter anymore to us wether a TD is not our local constituency,we are now taking the line,what they say in public is the party's view in the long run.

If you feel that this is just a few cranks who don't count.May I suggest you read boards.ie shooting section to see the resentment your party is building in the gun ownership community.Not to mention the IPSA and NARGC memberships.

If you think you can do without our votes in the next local and national elections,fine too.But do remember We are Irish gunowners and we VOTE!
Sincerely
Name& addy supplied.

rrpc

fish slapped wrote: »

Whats going to come out of it ? an apology as public as the Bu**s**t she spued forth on national TV about US, I think not , but if it makes them think twice about opening their mouth and cutting down the Joe SO on the street , then its all worth it.

I don't see the point of apologies. It's far more important that the full facts are known and that the people responsible for enacting legislation do so with a full deck of cards.

Every setback should be seen as an opportunity to move yourself forward, not put yourself back where you were.

Sparks

From the Irish Times letters page today:

Handgun licences and crime rates

*

Madam, - A report in your edition of November 7th points out that more pistol licences are granted outside major population centres than inside them. This is not surprising. Pistol licences are more numerous outside cities because there are no firing ranges in the cities and you need access to a range to get a licence. Target shooters have been highlighting this fact for years.

Your report adds that Fine Gael TD John Deasy was "concerned at the number of handguns now in circulation at a time when gun crime and the murder rate was climbing". It might be worth pointing out that there is no record of legally held handguns being used in crime since their reintroduction several years ago. In fact, since a ban on handguns was introduced in the UK gun crime has increased by over 500 per cent.

Mr Deasy says: "We shouldn't be liberalising procedures around gun licences when the murder rate is climbing. That just doesn't add up. I lived in the United States and know the damage they have caused there." In the US the it is possible to license a firearm for self-defence. That is not the case here. In Ireland handgun licenses are only issued for target use on approved ranges. There has not been a single murder case in which a legally held handgun was used.

If we want to compare firearms laws and gun crime rates with those in other countries, why not look at Norway and Switzerland? Both have more firearms than people and both have lower gun crime rates than Ireland. I am not suggesting that their lower crime rates are due to their higher number of firearms; I am saying that there is no connection between the two.

Your report says that "the total number of firearms licences issued, for all gun types, reached 233,934 in the 12-month period to July 31st last. This figure has grown steadily from 215,856 in 2004." These figures are distorted because legally our definition of a firearm is different to that in most countries. We license low-powered air guns that do not require a licence in the rest of Europe or in the US. Even so, we have fewer firearms per head than most countries in Europe. - Yours, etc,

kerryman12

Guys

I am equally annoyed/frustrated at this stage. Find below a letter on the way to FG HQ with copies to Mr Deasy and Ms Mitchell.

REgards
Dear Sir/Madam

I feel compelled to write to you following the recent comments of your colleagues, Deputy’s John Deasy and Olivia Mitchell in relation to handgun licences.
I do not own a handgun; however I have a small number of licensed firearms.

Mr Deasy’s comment recently in the Irish times, I feel were very ill informed. To deal directly with his assertions on the inconsistencies of licences issues in different Garda districts. Perhaps the deputy should consider that this is due to the higher number of licensed shooting ranges in a particular area – Wexford in this case. To deal with the general assertion as to the overall increase, the actual number of pistol licences has dropped by 1/5 in the last 30 years. In relation to the increase in the last few years perhaps he should consider that we are coming from a situation of a complete ban – implemented with the support of gun owners at the time.

Ms Olivia Mitchell comments on questions and answers last Monday evening I found personally insulting. The way in which Ms Mitchell lumped me in with the mindless criminals currently on the rampage in Limerick shows a very thoughtless and ill informed view point. Does Ms Mitchell believe that criminal elements in Limerick spend between 3 and 6 months going through the application procedure, meeting with the firearms office of the local Gardai and finally approval by the local Garda superintendent like law abiding licence holders. Why can a differentiation not be made in this regard

Can you tell if the opinions put forward by these deputies represent party policy? If so it is incredibly ill informed!
Gun law in Ireland is quite strict, each application for each licence must go in front of a Garda superintendent for approval – and rightly so. Guidelines in relation to secure storage, disassembly, home security can be inspected at any time by the Gardai. As a licensed firearms holder I understand that it is a privilege and not a right to hold a licensed firearm. As a member of the general public I feel reassured that the licensing of firearms in this country is strictly controlled. Surely you will appreciate that firearms being used by criminal elements are not licensed! These firearms are being brought into the country illegally. Perhaps if FG could spend more time trying to resolve this issue, then we would all live in a better country. I fail to see how lumping law abiding citizens, such as my self in with criminal elements can help to solve our current problems. Unfortunately it appears to me that these points are designed to score political points from the government rather than solve issues facing this country. This type of negative politics add’s nothing of value to the debate. Is to much to expect that our deputies should at least be informed of all the fact before making public comment? By all means have a debate on this subject, but do the voters the curtsy of it being a informed debate!

Finally let me say that on one point I do agree with the comments of the deputies. The law in regard to the licensing of firearms is very dispersed and in real need of a radical overall. Licensed firearms owners have been making this point for years, and I believe that we have nothing to fear from that; provided that the law is framed in a fair/balanced and informed manner.


Yours truly,

ranger4

Sika_Stalker wrote: »

just watched tv3 news and on it was a piece about guns in limerick
well by god they were trying hard to try and make it out that it was stolen guns that were being used. but they interviewed one of the locals and he said they were coming from spain brand spanking new
how much you can believe is up to you?????

Its about time the likes of FG Labour and all the rest of the Hiyinas of politics stop their ****ty point scoring on the backs of the murderd, pensioners, etc etc, Its about time proper sentances for murder are introduced e.g if they woint execuite thease scum at least send them down for a min of 40+years with absolutly no rimmision etc, build the prisions needed and this would also have a p[ositive effect with creating badly needed jobs in the construction sector, Im sick to death with thease stupid so called Leaders who havent a clue whats needed to put a stop to thease gangs, A PROPER ****ING DETERENT.

Sparks

Eh, did nobody read the bit above posted by rrpc, on how Enda Kenny has told Mitchell and Deasy to go and physically visit a pistol range and learn what the blank they're talking about?

CJhaughey

ranger4 wrote: »

Its about time the likes of FG Labour and all the rest of the Hiyinas of politics stop their ****ty point scoring on the backs of the murderd, pensioners, etc etc, Its about time proper sentances for murder are introduced e.g if they woint execuite thease scum at least send them down for a min of 40+years with absolutly no rimmision etc, build the prisions needed and this would also have a p[ositive effect with creating badly needed jobs in the construction sector, Im sick to death with thease stupid so called Leaders who havent a clue whats needed to put a stop to thease gangs, A PROPER ****ING DETERENT.

This won't happen as long as you have a Judiciary who are very keen to assert their independence.

Our man in Havana

CJhaughey wrote: »

This won't happen as long as you have a Judiciary who are very keen to assert their independence.

Indeed. The government can't interfere in their work.

Grizzly 45

Damn! Got a mail undeliverd on three of the emails.Anyone got a current email addresses forthe afore mentioned people?Oirechtas and finegael.ie were the returned addys I used.
TIA

Indeed an impartial judicary is a cornerstone of democracy.However I somtimes wonder is our judicary somtimes afraid to hand down tougher sentences because of the chance of threats to their well being and security too??? After all they are human too and subject to all the ills and fears that affect us all.

rrpc

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Indeed an impartial judicary is a cornerstone of democracy.However I somtimes wonder is our judicary somtimes afraid to hand down tougher sentences because of the chance of threats to their well being and security too??? After all they are human too and subject to all the ills and fears that affect us all.

I think that's a dangerous statement to make, and does us and the judiciary no credit.

I believe that the judiciary suffer from the same problem that we do and that's ignorance from the wider media.

If you believe that the media can be completely ignorant of the law relating to firearms, do you really believe that they all suddenly become legal experts where the criminal justice system is concerned?

I don't. I think that ill-informed journalists find it easier (quelle surprise) to ignore the actual facts of a case in their never ending hunt for a headline.

Edit: I believe that the current trend of 'dumbing down' the news has had the unfortunate but inevitable consequence of collateral damage to the intellects of those providing it.

Vegeta

Sparks wrote: »

Eh, did nobody read the bit above posted by rrpc, on how Enda Kenny has told Mitchell and Deasy to go and physically visit a pistol range and learn what the blank they're talking about?

I genuinely hope anyone here who is involved in the running of a range has sent them an invite and show them just how responsible we are.

Enda has opened the gate folks, send your invites. Got a competition coming up, well send them an invite, how better to show them why we do what we do.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Indeed an impartial judicary is a cornerstone of democracy.However I somtimes wonder is our judicary somtimes afraid to hand down tougher sentences because of the chance of threats to their well being and security too??? After all they are human too and subject to all the ills and fears that affect us all.

How about we not go incredibly far off-topic and keep to only the shooting-related political stuff? There's the Politics forum for discussion of more general political matters.

dresden8

RTE news today, Garda Commissioner at PAC giving out about that super uber weapon, the Glock.

And yes, we're officially all hit-men now. I think we should form a cartel and not under-cut each other on price.

I'll post a link when I find it.

Rovi

dresden8 wrote: »

RTE news today, Garda Commissioner at PAC giving out about that super uber weapon, the Glock.

And yes, we're officially all hit-men now. I think we should form a cartel and not under-cut each other on price.

I'll post a link when I find it.

I caught the very end of that, and heard something along the lines of "600 legally held firearms used in crime every year", or words to that effect! :eek:
That sounds like an insane figure, did anyone else hear it or am I going balmy?

Sparks

What news program was it, news at one?

Rovi

Sparks wrote: »

What news program was it, news at one?

Yep, still on at the moment, but they've long since moved on to other stories.

It'll be interesting to hear if the bould Joe runs with it.

Sparks

It'll be [url=rtsp://od2.rte.ie/2008/1113/13112008rte-newsatone.ra]here so when they get it processed and up on the web[/url].

Rovi

And here's the New At One archive page:
http://www.rte.ie/news/news1pm/

It'll get posted there in due course, as a separate item.

Our man in Havana

Rovi wrote: »

Yep, still on at the moment, but they've long since moved on to other stories.

It'll be interesting to hear if the bould Joe runs with it.

Too busy dicussing stolen DVDs at the moment.

rrpc

Three inaccuracies so far, Sean O'Rourke would also need to prove genuine reason for having two Glocks and a safe place to use and store them.

Secondly, the courts don't grant refused licences, they return the application to the Superintendent with the instruction to review it. The Superintendent is still persona designata and can still refuse on other grounds the court hasn't considered.

Thirdly,the commissioner isn't precluded from giving instruction to Superintendents by a court decision, its the firearms acts that preclude him. That's what the court decided on the basis of the law as it then stood.

The CJA 2006 has amended that to allow the commissioner issue guidelines and this is still waiting to be implemented - the guidelines haven't issued yet and that ball is split between the commissioners and the ministers court because section 31 hasn't (to the best of my knowledge) been commenced yet.

Rovi

It's up!
Fourth item down:
http://www.rte.ie/news/news1pm/

Now to see if I was hearing 'the voices'

tonysopprano

Thank you for your email. I'm sure it is true that only a small proportion of legally held guns end up in the hands of criminals. I do believe though that .societies that have a proliferation of guns, more specifically handguns, also tend to have higher gun crime. I accept too that that may not be true in every case. I should point out however, and I apologise if I gave any other impression, that I was speaking merely about handguns and not about shotguns that would be in common use amongst the rural community.

The reason this matter came to the fore as you are probably aware, was where in two cases superintendents refusing gun licences, had judicial reviews brought against them. In each case the superintendents' decision was overturned. Information made available to the party by members of the Gardaí indicated that there was a) inconsistency across the country in terms of the ease of obtaining a handgun licence and b) Gardaí were aware of handgun licence applications where there was no obvious reason for the applicant to actually own a gun, and c) that ownership of one gun gave almost automatic entitlement to further licences.

I certainly never intended to imply that the vast majority of gun owners held them for anything other than legitimate sporting purposes. I can also assure you that no member of the public that I have spoken to interpreted what was said as a suggestion that owners of legally held guns obtained those guns for nefarious purposes. I am more than aware of the many active sporting gun clubs in the country, including in my own constituency, and I wish them continuing success.

Kind regards,

Olivia

_________________________________________________________
Olivia Mitchell TD
Dublin South Constituency & Fine Gael Spokesperson on Arts, Sport and Tourism
Leinster House
Kildare Street
Dublin 2.

Tel: (01) 6183088 - Fax: (01) 6184579
Email: olivia.mitchell@oireachtas.ie
Website: www.oliviamitchell.finegael.ie

Rovi

"800 legally held firearms seized from criminals last year"


WTF?