M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

SeanW

Sam Russell wrote: »

Well, as I said, there never was a plan for Galway, whether it be roads, houses, public transport, or anything. Everything is a sticking plaster at best, and there could be a sniff of choices benefiting some more than others.

Probably true. That's why the city never had a proper bypass, just the mish-mash of street-road hybrids built on the cheap in the 1980s. Does this look familiar? Like the N6 portion of the Headford Road?
https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/10/30/the-stroad

Why do you think spending €600 million plus on another attempt to solve the traffic is a good idea? Try spending 10% of that on free PT for a few years and see what happens. It would need P&R and bus lanes and smart shiny new buses, but it could only improve the current position.

Of course they could wait until they see if the ring road solves the problem.

Who said it has to be one or the other?

JCX BXC

Agreed. The current N6 is not fit as a bypass, even with good public transport options.

Sam Russell

JCX BXC wrote: »

Agreed. The current N6 is not fit as a bypass, even with good public transport options.

Why is a bypass needed?

Is there a huge metropolis west of Dunnes Stores on the Headford Road that needs supplying? Is there a huge city in Connemara that is bustling with commerce coming from Gort? How many millions live in Connemara?

Of course not. The bypass is a distributor road.

The bypass is to allow all those that live in Knocknacarra get to work in Ballybrit and students and healthcare workers get from Oranmore to the hospital and university. A proper public transport system, say a Luas, would provide this at lower cost. A few million spent on sorting the very badly planned road system would make a huge difference, and a P&R add on to that PT would make Galway a pleasant place again.

cgcsb

JCX BXC wrote: »

Agreed. The current N6 is not fit as a bypass, even with good public transport options.

The purpose of a bypass is to remove through trips from an urban area, So for example the Athlone bypass takes Dublin-Galway traffic out of the town. A bypass of Galway would accommodate traffic from the East/South of the country to.....where? the next major settlement west of Galway is in Canada. The rural area West of Galway has a population of 32,000. Even if every man woman and child drove a car around the bypass to access some destination East or South of Galway, that would still not justify such a ridiculous spend.

The purpose of the proposed road is clearly as a distributor road for City bound traffic, which is of course unsustainable and at odds with policy.

serfboard

Sam Russell wrote: »

A proper public transport system, say a Luas

A proper public transport system, say Bus Connects.

There will be no Luas for Galway.

Sam Russell

cgcsb wrote: »

The purpose of a bypass is to remove through trips from an urban area, So for example the Athlone bypass takes Dublin-Galway traffic out of the town. A bypass of Galway would accommodate traffic from the East/South of the country to.....where? the next major settlement west of Galway is in Canada. The rural area West of Galway has a population of 32,000. Even if every man woman and child drove a car around the bypass to access some destination East or South of Galway, that would still not justify such a ridiculous spend.

The purpose of the proposed road is clearly as a distributor road for City bound traffic, which is of course unsustainable and at odds with policy.

So why is it being built?

cgcsb

Sam Russell wrote: »

So why is it being built?

It won't be.

CowboyTed

serfboard wrote: »

A proper public transport system, say Bus Connects.

There will be no Luas for Galway.

It is near impossible to keep a bus timetable unless the roads are free...

Again there is 4 times the amount of cars in Galway than when the Quintessential was built. I see no plan here to reduce the number of cars here by 50%... The city should have had this bypass 15 years ago and we should have been spending the last 10 years on a proper bus based PT system..

Bus operators said it is uneconomical to run buses Knocknacarra to Parkmore and back in the morning and back in evening without going through the city.

What I would envision is we get the by pass and then use that space to place in the things Sam is talking about... I really think we should be trialing a HOV/Bus Lane for a hour or two on rush hour... So if you have 3+ people in your car you get to use the bus lanes...

What is proposed is not a bypass, its a ring road designed to distribute motorists all around the city thereby increasing the reliance on cars

Sam Russell

Deleted User wrote: »

What is proposed is not a bypass, its a ring road designed to distribute motorists all around the city thereby increasing the reliance on cars

Precisely.

If it is built, it will join the long list of follies the Galway has built over the last 50 years.

If it is not built, then it will be an outstanding case of sense prevailing for once, but it needs to have a proper solution in place that addresses the complete absence of adequate public transport. The absence of such is not solved by more roads, it is solved by more buses and trams, augmented by P&R that would be needed because of high level of one off houses scattered across the county.

[Calling it a ring road must be an in joke, since the geography of Galway precludes a ring due to the bit of Galway Bay that is a bit wet for a road].

Carol25

1. Galway does not have sufficient infrastructure to complete any sort of 'Bus Connects', bike lane systems, its streets are too narrow, it doesn't have enough bridges, its biggest bridge The Quincentennial, was built in the mid 1980's where I saw a picture of the Claddagh on the wall in the Meyrick before dated from this time: a barn/shed and fields......think about that...it is in no way fit for purpose.

2. Galway needs a way from East to West to enable people to travel more freely between both sides, to get better access to UHG to the public, some of whom have to travel from as far away as Donegal and other areas to access services. Access to beaches / Connemara at all times of the year if the weather is fine, these motorists currently have to sit in traffic through the City just to begin their journey. These areas are not exclusively for people who live there or on that side of the City like some in Galway would like to believe. This is also a major issue during the summer festivals and peak tourist seasons.

3. By having a ring road/bypass, it allows more public transport/bike lanes to be developed on the inner roads - and could also allow for express shuttle buses to be operated on the new road if proper park and ride carparks are set up accordingly to facilitate public transport connections to the main industrial estates and between them.

4. The new road would also allow people living locally to cycle/walk or take public transport more to schools, colleges and universities - which in turn takes more cars off the road.

This is all done without throwing away billions on a Luas that would just serve one corridor, mish mashing up existing junctions and prolonging the problems that have plagued the City for years.

Thankfully we no longer affected by traffic in Galway in our house, I would turn some posters attention to the new bypass being built currently in Mayo along the N5 - under construction now even during the Covid crisis. This bypass/two laned dual-carriageway was planned for many many years after the Galway road, got planning and will now serve as a great inter-connecter between Castlebar and Westport as a result. This is being built also while Mayo has also developed many cycle / greenways and off road walking trails.
If Galway doesn't wake up soon, I fear for its future. The City is already struggling as people don't want to bother trying to access it in the current situation. Nothing works - buses, cars, bikes, it's all an abject failure at the moment. This will affect investment in the furture and the development of the modern Green metropolis many on here crave.

cgcsb

Why is the fallacy of Galway not having enough space for a comprehensive bus system still floating around? Of course there is enough space it just means removing space allocated to cars. Where access is essential there are loads of options, bus gates, one way systems, time limited access etc. Bus connects corridor schwme in Dublin is an example of what can be achieved with narrow streets. The ring road won't happen and shouldn't happen. 10% of the investment required for the ring road can permanently solve congestion if handed over to PT. The ring road will worsen traffic and attract more cars to the city. The number of conemara to the rest of Ireland journies is miniscule.

Carol25

Carol25 wrote: »

1. Galway does not have sufficient infrastructure to complete any sort of 'Bus Connects', bike lane systems, its streets are too narrow, it doesn't have enough bridges, its biggest bridge The Quincentennial, was built in the mid 1980's where I saw a picture of the Claddagh on the wall in the Meyrick before dated from this time: a barn/shed and fields......think about that...it is in no way fit for purpose.

Actually the streets are plenty wide enough if you remove the car traffic which is what will be happening with University road, the Salmon Weir bridge and Eglington street which will all be restricted to buses, cyclists and pedestrians only. Once completed the throughput capacity on those streets will increase by several multiples.

Carol25 wrote: »

2. Galway needs a way from East to West to enable people to travel more freely between both sides, to get better access to UHG to the public, some of whom have to travel from as far away as Donegal and other areas to access services. Access to beaches / Connemara at all times of the year if the weather is fine, these motorists currently have to sit in traffic through the City just to begin their journey. These areas are not exclusively for people who live there or on that side of the City like some in Galway would like to believe. This is also a major issue during the summer festivals and peak tourist seasons.

You do realise that its the cars that are the congestion dont you?

Carol25 wrote: »

3. By having a ring road/bypass, it allows more public transport/bike lanes to be developed on the inner roads - and could also allow for express shuttle buses to be operated on the new road if proper park and ride carparks are set up accordingly to facilitate public transport connections to the main industrial estates and between them.

The ring road is not needed to develop these facilities only courage and political will

Carol25 wrote: »

4. The new road would also allow people living locally to cycle/walk or take public transport more to schools, colleges and universities - which in turn takes more cars off the road.

Actually what it results in is induced demand. Its the same all over the world, literally.

Carol25 wrote: »

If Galway doesn't wake up soon, I fear for its future. The City is already struggling as people don't want to bother trying to access it in the current situation. Nothing works - buses, cars, bikes, it's all an abject failure at the moment. This will affect investment in the furture and the development of the modern Green metropolis many on here crave.

Because priority is being given to the least efficient mode of transport. Change that and you change the city for the better

Carol25

cgcsb wrote: »

Why is the fallacy of Galway not having enough space for a comprehensive bus system still floating around? Of course there is enough space it just means removing space allocated to cars. Where access is essential there are loads of options, bus gates, one way systems, time limited access etc. Bus connects corridor schwme in Dublin is an example of what can be achieved with narrow streets. The ring road won't happen and shouldn't happen. 10% of the investment required for the ring road can permanently solve congestion if handed over to PT. The ring road will worsen traffic and attract more cars to the city. The number of conemara to the rest of Ireland journies is miniscule.

Hello cgcsb, I've had these arguments with you many times of these threads. Your view is not one I agree with whatsoever.
Ultimately the people of City and County Galway will suffer because of yours and other posters agenda on here which is sad as you all clearly have your own little hidden agendas on blocking the new road...pretending to have 'alternative solutions' which are laughable.
Oh and the favourite quote of 'the road will bring more cars' is also another one I think is firmly for the bin...roads FACILITATE the existing cars that have to use the roads, and FACILITATE forms of public transports/bike lanes you are shouting up and down about that you want.
Why are you so anti bypass if you can get your PT and bike lanes sorted on inner roads also? It solves many more issues than your pie in the sky.

Carol25

Deleted User wrote: »

Actually the streets are plenty wide enough if you remove the car traffic which is what will be happening with University road, the Salmon Weir bridge and Eglington street which will all be restricted to buses, cyclists and pedestrians only. Once completed the throughput capacity on those streets will increase by several multiples.





You do realise that its the cars that are the congestion dont you?





The ring road is not needed to develop these facilities only courage and political will



Actually what it results in is induced demand. Its the same all over the world, literally.





Because priority is being given to the least efficient mode of transport. Change that and you change the city for the better

What a load of rubbish, you just threw up a few diagrams of big wide ROADS wider than any in Galway to try and prove your point.

Secondly, the bypass is for all forms of transport - did you read my post re inner roads being used for such purposes and express bus routes on the outer road?

You also threw up a picture pretending all cars go into the City using a bottle...what on earth are you talking about? That isn't where every car is going, many need to go AROUND the City, and cannot do so.

I've a question - are you to be directly affected by the construction of this new bypass? Why else would you be so anti-development of the City, in which all of your Green solutions/bus corridors/bike lanes could also come into effect?

Sam Russell

Carol25 wrote: »

What a load of rubbish, you just threw up a few diagrams of big wide ROADS wider than any in Galway to try and prove your point.

Secondly, the bypass is for all forms of transport - did you read my post re inner roads being used for such purposes and express bus routes on the outer road?

You also threw up a picture pretending all cars go into the City using a bottle...what on earth are you talking about? That isn't where every car is going, many need to go AROUND the City, and cannot do so.

I've a question - are you to be directly affected by the construction of this new bypass? Why else would you be so anti-development of the City, in which all of your Green solutions/bus corridors/bike lanes could also come into effect?

The Dublin Luas was proclaimed to be a massive white elephant by all and sundry before it as built. Now it runs the longest trams in the world that are jammers all day long. So they are building a Metro that should solve the problem only the public are objecting to closing Donore Ave to cars.

The M50 was built as a solution to Dublin's traffic problems when it was built. It was jammers after a few years so was widened to solve the traffic problem. It is now jammers.

The N7 was widened from Naas to the M50 to solve the traffic problem. It is now jammers morning and night. It did not solve the traffic problem - it just made it worse.

Henry St and Grafton St in Dublin are closed to traffic. Not a single person would want it reversed, but many objected at the time.

Public transport works well if planned, with enough capacity. It has to be reliable,frequent and cheap. On the other hand bypasses do not have a long life as they become oversubscribed and the congestion kills them and motorist start rat running that spreads the congestion. The Childers Rd in Limerick was a bypass when it was built, but now they have another bypass but no public transport.

Road improvements lead to more traffic which leads to congestion and calls for more roads.

Carol25

Sam Russell wrote: »

The Dublin Luas was proclaimed to be a massive white elephant by all and sundry before it as built. Now it runs the longest trams in the world that are jammers all day long. So they are building a Metro that should solve the problem only the public are objecting to closing Donore Ave to cars.

The M50 was built as a solution to Dublin's traffic problems when it was built. It was jammers after a few years so was widened to solve the traffic problem. It is now jammers.

The N7 was widened from Naas to the M50 to solve the traffic problem. It is now jammers morning and night. It did not solve the traffic problem - it just made it worse.

Henry St and Grafton St in Dublin are closed to traffic. Not a single person would want it reversed, but many objected at the time.

Public transport works well if planned, with enough capacity. It has to be reliable,frequent and cheap. On the other hand bypasses do not have a long life as they become oversubscribed and the congestion kills them and motorist start rat running that spreads the congestion. The Childers Rd in Limerick was a bypass when it was built, but now they have another bypass but no public transport.

Road improvements lead to more traffic which leads to congestion and calls for more roads.

I am familiar with your point of view Sam but I do not share it. The roads built are 'jammers' because they are built years too late, and in some cases are poorly designed at junctions which can exacerbate the problem.
You actually posted on the M17 thread at one point criticising the fact there weren't 'enough' cars in some pictures a poster put up showing the road at dawn...so which is it? Because to me it all sounds like fantasy.

Are you seriously suggesting that Dublin should not have the M50 currently, and just solely rely on public transport instead? Are you suggesting that the N7 should not have been widened to Naas?

The Luas is a success in a city of 1 million people which also has the M50 and other motorways connected to it.
We do not just need a tunnel vision solution. There are many bike routes, lanes around south Dublin City now, and good public transport which I use many times when visiting there, while the M50 takes a lot of the through traffic, what is wrong with wanting this for Galway?

I am highly suspicious posters opposed to the road in Galway have ulterior motives...due to perhaps living close to the road, other factors..
It simply makes no sense to oppose something like this, and as I said already is a poor reflection on the people of Galway that posters here would prefer to prolong everyone's misery, which in turn can lead to high levels of stress on daily communtes = health issues, deaths, etc., because of their own agenda.

cgcsb

Carol25 wrote: »

Hello cgcsb, I've had these arguments with you many times of these threads. Your view is not one I agree with whatsoever.
Ultimately the people of City and County Galway will suffer because of yours and other posters agenda on here which is sad as you all clearly have your own little hidden agendas on blocking the new road...pretending to have 'alternative solutions' which are laughable.
Oh and the favourite quote of 'the road will bring more cars' is also another one I think is firmly for the bin...roads FACILITATE the existing cars that have to use the roads, and FACILITATE forms of public transports/bike lanes you are shouting up and down about that you want.
Why are you so anti bypass if you can get your PT and bike lanes sorted on inner roads also? It solves many more issues than your pie in the sky.

Yes, your opinions were shown to be incorrect by many posters before when it was pointed out to you the clear lack of a case for bypass. This is my job by the way and I have extensive training in same. EVERY study done on the matter shows that adding more road capacity increases long term congestion.

What you think is laughable / an agenda / will make people suffer is hardly relevant since you have demonstrated consistent lack of understanding and/or willful ignorance of hard data presented to you.

The proposed ring road doesn't facilitate anything other than wasting money. I'm opposed to it because of the gargantuan waste of money that, if invested correctly, could provide Cork, Limerick and Galway with extensive reliable public transport systems.

For your information, the consultants working on this project are also unofficially opposed to it and have been unable to come up with a robust argument in favour for the oral hearing. They've made the tenuous link between building the road and 'freeing up road space for PT', but that won't stack up to any sort of scrutiny because the road space required for PT projects already physically exists and policy is to achieve modal shift (i.e. reduce the number of car journeys), not accommodate current traffic volumes elsewhere.

cgcsb

Carol25 wrote: »

You also threw up a picture pretending all cars go into the City using a bottle...what on earth are you talking about? That isn't where every car is going, many need to go AROUND the City, and cannot do so.

90% are going into the City only a tiny number are taking long haul trips through Galway. This has been pointed out to you several times and you keep ignoring it and pretending that isn't the case. I can't help but think you're trolling, when you ignore flat facts presented to you.

Sam Russell

The M17 was built in the wrong place - too far east, and built to serve as a motorway between two small towns. It should have been built to serve Galway. In fact it should have been built to serve Limerick Cork traffic.

Building the M50 is not serving the purpose it was built for - it is a distributor road and as a result is inadequate. It was meant as a bypass for freight traffic from the port.

No attempt was made to provide a rail solution. For over 100 years the Phoenix Park Tunnel could not be used for passenger traffic. Now it can but only partly because IR do not have enough rolling stock.

There have been plans to improve rail transport around Dublin since the 1970s but little has come of it nor will there be for another decade.

If you want to solve the Galway traffic, get buses and bus lanes up and running, and invest in P&R. It will be at least a decade before that bypass will be built - and another decade when it will be jammers.

cgcsb

Carol25 wrote: »

This is all done without throwing away billions on a Luas that would just serve one corridor, mish mashing up existing junctions and prolonging the problems that have plagued the City for years.

One East-West luas line Parkmore-Knocknacarra with a catchment area of 1km on both sides of it would cover about 50% of Galway City's population. The cost of luas in Galway is not in the billions. A 10km could easily be achieved for €300-€400m. Alas we're getting ahead of ourselves, Galway needs a function bus system and cycleway network first.

Carol25

Carol25 wrote: »

What a load of rubbish, you just threw up a few diagrams of big wide ROADS wider than any in Galway to try and prove your point.

Fair point, allow me to counter with a road showing the same number of people on it, just the method of transport changed, maybe the inefficiencies will become clearer

Carol25 wrote: »

Secondly, the bypass is for all forms of transport - did you read my post re inner roads being used for such purposes and express bus routes on the outer road?

Point of fact, its not. It will be a M road so no bikes, no pedestrians allowed

Also, buses on the ring road, why? Nobody would be living there. Its exactly why there is not a bus route using BNT

Carol25 wrote: »

You also threw up a picture pretending all cars go into the City using a bottle...what on earth are you talking about? That isn't where every car is going, many need to go AROUND the City, and cannot do so.

The qty looking to bypass the city are not of a high enough qty to justify the cost and negative aspects of the ring road. Its one of the reasons they stopped calling it a bypass as only a small % would actually be bypassing the city.

Carol25 wrote: »

I've a question - are you to be directly affected by the construction of this new bypass? Why else would you be so anti-development of the City, in which all of your Green solutions/bus corridors/bike lanes could also come into effect?

Play the ball, not the man

Also, I'd advise you to go have a look at the Transport Strategy for Galway. It contains a lot of analysis of demand and may change your opinions.

I should also add, if you look back over the many pages of this thread you'll find I was originally 100% behind this ahead of all other options. It seems like a total no-brainer until you look at what it will result in and the options which achieve far better results.

No this is not the solution for Galway and the actual solutions are being put on the long finger until this is finally killed off so in a decade you may start to see the widescale rollout of

• bus lanes,
• P&R's,
• removal of all on-street parking,
• City Council parking switching to hourly charging and becoming the most expensive parking in the city,
• cycling provisions including secure parking, protected lanes, junction priority etc

cgcsb

Carol25 wrote: »

The Luas is a success in a city of 1 million people which also has the M50 and other motorways connected to it.
We do not just need a tunnel vision solution. There are many bike routes, lanes around south Dublin City now, and good public transport which I use many times when visiting there, while the M50 takes a lot of the through traffic, what is wrong with wanting this for Galway?

You've answered your own question there. wanting the same for Galway has the following obsticles:

1) Less than a tenth of the population
2) There are many other centres of population and industry either side of Dublin for some distance. The next significant centre of population/industry west of Galway is St John's Newfoundland, Canada.

cgcsb

cgcsb wrote: »

One East-West luas line Parkmore-Knocknacarra with a catchment area of 1km on both sides of it would cover about 50% of Galway City's population. The cost of luas in Galway is not in the billions. A 10km could easily be achieved for €300-€400m. Alas we're getting ahead of ourselves, Galway needs a function bus system and cycleway network first.

The actual analysis carried out put it at 20-25% due to a lack of density

CowboyTed

Sam Russell wrote: »

The M17 was built in the wrong place - too far east, and built to serve as a motorway between two small towns. It should have been built to serve Galway. In fact it should have been built to serve Limerick Cork traffic.

Building the M50 is not serving the purpose it was built for - it is a distributor road and as a result is inadequate. It was meant as a bypass for freight traffic from the port.

No attempt was made to provide a rail solution. For over 100 years the Phoenix Park Tunnel could not be used for passenger traffic. Now it can but only partly because IR do not have enough rolling stock.

There have been plans to improve rail transport around Dublin since the 1970s but little has come of it nor will there be for another decade.

If you want to solve the Galway traffic, get buses and bus lanes up and running, and invest in P&R. It will be at least a decade before that bypass will be built - and another decade when it will be jammers.

Anyone against the bypass,

Can you please show us an isolated City/Town of a population of 80,000 (not next or part of to a bigger population center) with a working:

• Park and Ride
• Light Rail
• Proper Internal Bus system (e.g. BusConnect)

With no Bypass. I mean no outer road.

Can be in Ireland or UK.... Remember 80k... Try and find that with a bypass even...

Then tell me how you are getting 75% of the cars off the roads of Galway... Please stick to real world examples with a weather conditions, population, infrastructure similar to ours ...

I am not trying to be rude but we have gone over the Pub Transport, Park and Ride, HOV,... for decades and we always end up back here...

You can't free up the city until you bypass it. At the moment there just isn't enough bridges and taking lanes up for PT at the moment will just gridlock the city and nothing goes anywhere...

Carol25

Well I rest my case if Cgcsb's 'job' is in this area...Galway is doomed. Just because I vehemently disagree with your opinion does not make me a troll. Your opinion is what's ruining the City presently delaying the building of this road, and prolonging everyone's misery in my opinion.
As I said thankfully, we took our family away from the situation of having to deal with Galway traffic on a daily basis.

It will be interesting to see how the Mayo dual carriageway between Castlebar and Westport fares...there is an existing train line & private bus services already between both towns. Added to that the Mayo Greenway will interlink Castlebar, Newport, Westport, Mulranny and Achill. But it's not stopping them putting in the proper infrastructure now to help save lives as the N5 has had many accidents over the years and they understand common sense.

May I point out also the continued disregard of posters on this thread for traffic heading West towards Connemara, do those busy roads overflowing with traffic heading towards Carraroe and Moycullen/Oughterard/Clifden not exist? Do people not take trips to Connemara to enjoy nature or shouldn't? Do many tourists not go there or will we pretend they don't exist also? Because anytime we head in that direction, the City traffic is terrible, and the roads out that direction are crowded with cars/trucks/cyclists, etc.

DaCor - you're failing to even acknowledge the obvious point I've made on multiple occasions as it doesn't suit your argument - until there's a bypass/outer road, you cannot free up the inner roads for buses, bike lanes, etc. This would most certainly take many cars off the inner roads as more people could walk, cycle or take public transport to school/work in the City on effective corridors. An express bus on a bypass should certainly be examined. Why not? Before the Covid outbreak, there was a Gobus service set up between Galway and Mayo towns on the M17 that would certainly not have been in existence if the M17 wasn't there.

Carol25

Carol25 wrote: »

DaCor - you're failing to even acknowledge the obvious point I've made on multiple occasions as it doesn't suit your argument

Not at all, I'm disagreeing with you and offering counter points backed up with data, information and graphics to illustrate my points. I have even offered you information sources to allow you to get more information yourself.

Carol25 wrote: »

until there's a bypass/outer road, you cannot free up the inner roads for buses, bike lanes, etc.

Not at all, this could be done in the morning. The reason it isn't is because of the priority being given to the least efficient form of transport.

If this priority was downgraded you would see a much faster switch to more efficient forms

Note, you can cycle from one end of Galway city to the other in about 35-40 mins so its not that far

Carol25 wrote: »

This would most certainly take many cars off the inner roads as more people could walk, cycle or take public transport to school/work in the City on effective corridors.

What is the motivation to switch away from the car if there is a shiny new ring road and still no infrastructure?

Carol25 wrote: »

An express bus on a bypass should certainly be examined.Why not?

From where to where?

And to answer your question, viability and a lowered service level if you are talking about a city route i.e. how many people can it cater for if it bypasses where they live

Carol25 wrote: »

Before the Covid outbreak, there was a Gobus service set up between Galway and Mayo towns on the M17 that would certainly not have been in existence if the M17 wasn't there.

Only gobus could answer that so I'm not going to guess as to their reasoning and without further information may I suggest you should not either

Sam Russell

Carol25 wrote: »

Well I rest my case if Cgcsb's 'job' is in this area...Galway is doomed. Just because I vehemently disagree with your opinion does not make me a troll. Your opinion is what's ruining the City presently delaying the building of this road, and prolonging everyone's misery in my opinion.
As I said thankfully, we took our family away from the situation of having to deal with Galway traffic on a daily basis.

It will be interesting to see how the Mayo dual carriageway between Castlebar and Westport fares...there is an existing train line & private bus services already between both towns. Added to that the Mayo Greenway will interlink Castlebar, Newport, Westport, Mulranny and Achill. But it's not stopping them putting in the proper infrastructure now to help save lives as the N5 has had many accidents over the years and they understand common sense.

May I point out also the continued disregard of posters on this thread for traffic heading West towards Connemara, do those busy roads overflowing with traffic heading towards Carraroe and Moycullen/Oughterard/Clifden not exist? Do people not take trips to Connemara to enjoy nature or shouldn't? Do many tourists not go there or will we pretend they don't exist also? Because anytime we head in that direction, the City traffic is terrible, and the roads out that direction are crowded with cars/trucks/cyclists, etc.

DaCor - you're failing to even acknowledge the obvious point I've made on multiple occasions as it doesn't suit your argument - until there's a bypass/outer road, you cannot free up the inner roads for buses, bike lanes, etc. This would most certainly take many cars off the inner roads as more people could walk, cycle or take public transport to school/work in the City on effective corridors. An express bus on a bypass should certainly be examined. Why not? Before the Covid outbreak, there was a Gobus service set up between Galway and Mayo towns on the M17 that would certainly not have been in existence if the M17 wasn't there.

This is like someone only equipped with a single tool - a hammer. To such a person, all problems must be nails.

You see the only solution to Galway's traffic problems as the bypass, and then when it is built, you wil then look at other approaches - like buses and bus lanes.

The traffic cannot wait for the bypass, the bus lanes need to putt in place now, with lots of new shiny buses with prioriy over the cars stuck in the traffic.

Here is an few equations for you.

One car = 1 or 2 people. One bus = 73 passengers.

One car takes 5 metres of road. One bus takes 12 metres of road.

One commuter car makes one journey each way each day and occupies one parking space.

One bus makes multiple journeys throughout the day and does not park.

So, how does building a bypass actually help get those commuters from blocking the city centre parking spots all day?

SeanW

Sam Russell wrote: »

This is like someone only equipped with a single tool - a hammer. To such a person, all problems must be nails.

You're assuming that anyone is suggesting a roads only approach.

One car takes 5 metres of road. One bus takes 12 metres of road.

Yes, city buses are great for some local usage, and I'm fully aware of their benefits having used them daily in Dublin for years. But they do have limits. To be of use to anyone travelling longer distances, they'd have to stop their car, put the car in their pocket and then board the bus to unfold the car and put it back on the road at the other end of the bus line. A truck delivering goods to any point West of the Corrib, well they're a bit bigger so they might have to go in the luggage rack. :rolleyes:

Or, we could conclude that some road users should be on purpose-designated roads instead of city streets to begin with, and that while buses, cycle lanes are a good idea, they don't solve the problem of people doing long distance East-West travel being stuck on the Headford Road?

So, how does building a bypass actually help get those commuters from blocking the city centre parking spots all day?

Well, the bypass isn't going anywhere near the city centre, so not sure what it's supposed to do there. Besides, there's more to life than commuting. People travel at all times of the day for all kinds of reasons. Plus there's freight.

cgcsb

CowboyTed wrote: »

Anyone against the bypass,

Can you please show us an isolated City/Town of a population of 80,000 (not next or part of to a bigger population center) with a working:

• Park and Ride
• Light Rail
• Proper Internal Bus system (e.g. BusConnect)

With no Bypass. I mean no outer road.

Can be in Ireland or UK.... Remember 80k... Try and find that with a bypass even...

Then tell me how you are getting 75% of the cars off the roads of Galway... Please stick to real world examples with a weather conditions, population, infrastructure similar to ours ...

:pac::pac::pac:

So you've set up enough arbitrary conditions (in bold) to make the requested task impossible. There is no city that matches this criteria, the closest example I can think of would be Brest in Brittany.

There doesn't need to be a real world carbon clone of Galway. We have modelling that can show us with 95%+ accuracy how things will go in different scenarios.

Galway doesn't need to achieve 75% sustainable mode share in the short term. Dublin is only at circa 70% at present. If Galway commutes could achieve 50% sustainable mode the traffic problem would be gone.

CowboyTed wrote: »

I am not trying to be rude but we have gone over the Pub Transport, Park and Ride, HOV,... for decades and we always end up back here...

There has never been any serious attempt to build public transport infrastructure in Galway.

CowboyTed wrote: »

You can't free up the city until you bypass it. At the moment there just isn't enough bridges and taking lanes up for PT at the moment will just gridlock the city and nothing goes anywhere...

Poppycock, there are a number of ways to free up the streets for PT. Why don't you have a read of the existing CBC plan as part of Dublin Bus Connects. The space for PT is created by removing space from cars. Or even take a look at the published Galway Transport strategy.

Making University Road-Salmon Weir-Eglington st bus only is a quick and easy start.