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M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,468 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    They are not slower, unless you are travelling off peak.

    In peak traffic conditions, roundabouts get backed up and blocked and then you are in full gridlock where even if your exit off roundabout is clear, you cannot cross because there are cars blocking the entire roundabout.This was and still is happening in Galway at the remaining roundabouts - they cannot handle peak Galway traffic.

    Traffic lights are predictable and reliable, it guarantees a certain throughput of traffic even in the busiest scenarios.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,403 ✭✭✭markpb


    Roundabouts are harder to make safe for pedestrians & cyclists and one-way roads encourage faster driving speeds and less careful driving along with punishing cyclists by making them cycle longer than they would normally need to.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 861 ✭✭✭Juran


    The biggest issue I find with lights in Galway is that drivers dont take off when they turn green. They fumble with gears and controls, and piss about before driving off. This delay has a huge knock on effect on the drivers further behind. If a light timing is designed to allow 15 cars to get through, I,d say the average in Galway is less than 10 cars getting through.

    And side roads where the lights stay green for 10 seconds, galway only gets 3 cars through max.

    I drive in Dublin, UK and Europe, and never see delays at traffic lights. Everyone is ready to take off. Why are Galway drivers so poor in general?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47 jopper


    I’m always saying this! Happens at every lights all over the county and presumably the rest of the country too. People on phones are the worst offenders, it is infuriating and really does all to add to the traffic backlog. A lot of European countries have the lights go both red and orange before it goes to green as a 2 second heads up that it’s time to move, why don’t we have that!!!

    On a side note with TD’s Noel Grealish & Seán Canney both getting super junior minister roles and being part of the government cabinet, surely that’s nothing but only very positive for Galway’s ring road to finally get the green light! Grealish did promise that it would be one of his main priorities if he got into government. The eternal optimist is quietly confident!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,248 ✭✭✭seanin4711


    job for life planning for that road



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 41,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    A lot of European countries have the lights go both red and orange before it goes to green as a 2 second heads up that it’s time to move, why don’t we have that!!!

    Aside from the UK, what other European countries have that?

    Anyhow, the problem tends to be people looking down at their phones so the traffic light could be doing disco flashing and they still wouldn't see it!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,201 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    Most of Europe, by population. The UK and pretty much everywhere east of the Rhine uses a Red+Amber phase before green. Like us, France, Spain, Portugal, Belgium and Italy do a straight-to-green, but we're in the minority.

    In the old Soviet Union (and still Russia), they flashed the green light before the amber comes on, which to me seems like a provocation to speed up.

    The Netherlands goes straight-to-green, but newer signals in the Netherlands run a 3,2,1 countdown display in the amber lamp space (here's one).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 222 ✭✭scrabtom


    The blocker for the ring road wasn't political will, it's planning.

    From the sounds of things there's a good chance it will fail in planning once again, which can't be solved by the government without a time consuming resubmission no matter how many ministers Galway has.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,132 ✭✭✭Cosmo Kramer


    The lights not going amber before going green makes a difference in Ireland all right I find. A lot of dozy older people driving around the west of the country doesn't help either.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,517 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Seems to work in Cork. Roundabouts are probably faster overall but perhaps not in all situations. Are the traffic lights controlled centrally by an computer system in Galway?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,310 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    This is what I was going to say. If anything, Canney's influence could be negative as I could see him continuing to flog the dead horse rather than changing course as should have happened years ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,201 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    The roundabouts on Cork’s approach roads are much bigger, and also, Galway's traffic makes Cork look quiet: I could not believe how busy Galway was the times I drove there. It's absolutely crazy how such a small city has so many people driving in it.

    On the thread topic, I still think the N6, as submitted, is dead, and the recent judgement from the new Planning panel of the High Court is the last nail in the coffin: basically, the judge in that ruling castigated ABP (on another project) for not acting in accordance with the climate treaties that the government has signed up to. There is no way the current design can meet those obligations, and, as it's an orbital road, you couldn't even add active travel or public transport to the corridor to help, as any such routes would be a huge diversion for cyclists or bus services to serve no additional locations.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,604 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    On the thread topic, I still think the N6, as submitted, is dead, and the recent judgement from the new Planning panel of the High Court is the last nail in the coffin: basically, the judge in that ruling castigated ABP (on another project) for not acting in accordance with the climate treaties that the government has signed up to. There is no way the current design can meet those obligations, and, as it's an orbital road, you couldn't even add active travel or public transport to the corridor to help, as any such routes would be a huge diversion for cyclists or bus services to serve no additional locations.

    There are 2 outs for Galway CC and TII as I see it:

    1. The need for the Ring Road to be built to free up road space to allow active travel and public transport priority within the city.
    2. Government policy of vehicle electrification to the point fossil fuel cars are banned, and the whole vehicular fleet is electric vehicles powered by renewable energy.

    Macquarie submitted planning for the Sceirde Rocks windfarm off Connemara last week. It'll be open before the M6 is open on current timelines. Easy to make a case that these offshore wind farms will allow a zero emissions M6 Ring Road once complete. (Edit: I only noticed after this will make landfall in Clare but my broader point still stands).



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,635 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    On the current M6 plan, I believe that the courts would be ok with it if the government were very clearly progressing a plan in the city centre at the same time. The judge in that court case was very clear that it was net zero, not absolute zero, so having another separate plan, which would pedestrianise areas, and prioritise active and public transport, may, in my opinion, be enough for a court to allow this plan to go through. It'd have to be visible though, don't think that they'd get away with saying, oh, we've got a plan for sometime in the future, we'll show you in ten years.

    It's a difficult one though, as ultimately any such project would be a political decision, not a planning one. Courts don't like to get involved in political side of things, i.e. requiring politicians to make a decision. Ultimately, they may fall back on just barring the M6 until they get it to be net zero, which is technically making it a planning decision, not a political one.

    Hard to know.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,468 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    What are construction emissions?

    Based purely on emissions factors, you could argue that reducing journey times is net no change to emissions given that in future all cars are projected/hoped to be EVs, therefore emissions from congestion versus emissions from driving on ring road are same (zero).

    Construction emissions however are substantial, and in an EV full world would not be offset by reduced congestion and traffic emissions, because there aren't any traffic emissions to offset!

    The death of the ring road is because they seek to solve traffic through another distributor road rather than PT. It is destined to fail, it literally cannot work. Had they packaged it up with some tangible PT works at the same time it could be under construction by now.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,201 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    The only chance of this road getting planning will be if it is included as part of a massive, and serious, overhaul of road transportation inside its orbit: that means reduction/re-allocation of lane capacity on roads within Galway, some form of congestion or user charging, and putting P+R hubs at the junctions to discourage private commuters from entering the city. That's a much bigger project, but it's one that could actually get planning.

    What was submitted was “we'd like to build a massive new road, please” without any mitigations against the induced car traffic demand it would produce, and quite rightly that was found to be against every commitment the Government had made to reduce transport emissions.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,604 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    If we are in a situation where planning approved projects are getting blocked in the courts due to construction emissions we are fúcked as a country. Such endeavours may have been viable in the rules based international order era but we're going to have to elevate our national priorities beyond international virtue signalling in the coming years. Voters aren't going to be happy that projects that have 86% support in a constituency poll are being blocked in the courts, despite being current Government policy, due to laws enacted years ago by a different Government which were enacted with fanciful but legally binding targets which have no regard for actual consequences.

    If we are worried about construction emissions, where do we stop?

    I agree with the PT and AT that should be very much advanced at this stage but this also smacks of the same as the Limerick situation where the northside of Limerick cannot have reallocation of road space before a distributor road is built as the place would seize.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,943 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Signal control junctions are quicker and safer for pedestrians and cyclists. Roundabouts are the most dangerous junction type for vulnerable road users.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,468 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    The point is you cannot claim a road will decrease transport emissions because transport emissions are actually less of a factor now and into the future because of electrification of private car fleet.

    As said before, net zero overall not absolute zero emissions would be the threshold (if climate act is a factor, like recent court judgements suggest it would be). The current proposal for GCRR falls foul of both, as it has significant construction emissions for basically no gain. It would lead to more car Kms driven, more traffic through induced demand, and it inevitably won't solve the traffic problems. Extra distributor roads alone never solve traffic problems, only denser forms of transport can fix that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,101 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Sadly, that is already happening in the UK, or at least being challenged in that way. I haven't got any examples on the tip of my tongue but it is happening. The same is happening in NI with the A5 scheme, the net zero and carbon emissions are one of the angles of the latest legal action.



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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,635 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    On the emissions from cars, and the move to electric vehicles, that has absolutely no chance of happening by 2050, which is the date that Ireland has agreed to in their international commitments, and have put into law in Ireland.

    With the targets all being 2050, I can't imagine that the courts would consider the move to EVs past 2050 in their deliberations and I think ABP are not going to follow suit.

    Construction emissions are obviously going to need to be taken on board, but would not be too hard to counterbalance. The judge, in his judgment, really made clear that it's not "don't build anything". He even made clear that even if this judgement could be considered "pro-renewable", it does not follow that it should also be "anti-LNG" or similar.

    I read that as "you must take into account the current law surrounding the climate emergency, but some projects that increase emissions are allowed". In this case, it is frustratingly simple to include other projects that would counteract any increase in emissions. That this was required was clear for many years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,517 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Some would disagree.

    "Signal-controlled intersections require a vast infrastructure to function properly. There are control stations staffed with personnel monitoring the situation constantly, ensuring that the lights change at the right time and that everything runs smoothly. If something goes wrong, the whole system can grind to a halt, causing frustration and delays for everyone involved.

    Roundabouts, on the other hand, are largely self-sufficient. They don't require constant monitoring or intervention. Once they're built, they can function independently, with drivers navigating the flow of traffic on their own. This not only saves money on maintenance and staffing but also makes the system more resilient and adaptable to changing conditions.

    As Aaron Dignan points out in his book "Brave New Work," the differences between these two systems are starker than we might think.

    "One allows for a surreptitious text message or two while we wait," he writes.

    "The other keeps things moving. One has a huge apparatus behind it, with control stations and staff monitoring the situation constantly. The other is left to its own devices."

    Despite the clear advantages of roundabouts, they're surprisingly rare in the United States. There's about one roundabout for every 1,100 intersections. So, you might assume that signal-controlled intersections are superior. But the data tells a different story. Roundabouts are safer, more efficient, and cheaper to maintain than their signal-controlled counterparts. They reduce injury collisions by 75%, fatal collisions by 90%, and delays by 89%. They cost $5,000 to $10,000 less per year to maintain. And they continue to function normally during power outages. "

    Have you sources for your statements?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    Am I missing something? Your post seems to be about the cost savings of roundabouts and taken from a book about business written by a businessman. There's a mention of it being safer without specifying for who and with percentages that have no source reference and are very vaguely worded so look impressive but don't tell us much of use about anything. Not really sure what the point of including all that in response to a post about the safety of junction types to different road users.

    I've read the research on the safety and throughput before but don't have it to hand. I think it was roughly telling us that traffic lights are safer for the non-driver and roundabouts lose their throughput efficacy after a certain level of traffic. Someone else might step up and dig it up and I'm open to being wrong about how I remember it. Or have a look on Google Scholar or similar. Not the business book aisle 😄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,517 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Well ok, there's more that one view on this it seems. Odd that we replaced traffic lights with roundabouts and then about 20 years later went bck to them again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    And we'll probably go back in another 20 years 😄

    Important to remember these aren't perfect decisions and our understanding evolves. I think when we were putting in roundabouts everywhere they were seen as the more efficient option (plus technology wasn't as good for more complex solutions like traffic lights), and the focus was on keeping traffic moving. Now we've an understanding that roundabouts lose their efficiency edge when they're over capacity and they're less safe for everyone not in a car (which is slowly becoming recognised as an important issue). They also offer advantages like being able to set priority for major and minor roads which helps with things like people on minor roads never getting out or minor roads being too easy to get out from, causing more people to use that minor road and extending it beyond it's intended function and capacity.

    But as I said, they're imperfect decisions so for all I know the real reason for the change was some lad in the Council got a deal on traffic lights 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,449 ✭✭✭happyoutscan


    Lights have yet to actually work in alleviating Galway traffic issues.

    Roundabouts - although not perfect - alleviated Galway's traffic issues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 713 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    It really should be that simple. And I absolutely hope it is. The current plan ticked a lot of environmental boxes in terms of the sensitive land the new road is to be built on.

    Some combination of bus lanes on Quincentennial Bridge and/or reconfiguring traffic flows on the 3x inner bridges to only allow public transport or one way general traffic.

    Effectively, you would not be adding additional general traffic lanes to the city, just enabling new public transport corridors.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 563 ✭✭✭Dr Robert


    Will be see some sort of solution before 2040, or maybe 2035?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,409 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    I think a variation of item 1 you listed is the only answer. They need to index-link this scheme to the specific schemes it enables and facilitates. And those schemes need to be bundled with the "ring road" as a project, not separate projects. Because unfortunately "freeing up other non-specific road space elsewhere" has been the justification of most unsustainable roads projects historically. So it needs to show specifically, in numbers, the expected modal shift elsewhere, and that needs to be measurable (and measured).

    I don't know if your point 2 is going to fly, really. Fossil Fuel cars aren't going to be banned, just the sale of new cars is going to be banned, and other vehicles will exist. So there will be residual emissions and interim emissions. Again, I don't see it working without a variant of point 1: any emissions on road A are going to be counteracted by some specific action. It doesn't matter if it's planting trees or installing carbon-capture devices or whatever, something specific will need to be done. We're adding X amount of emissions, so we're removing Y amount of emissions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,943 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    There is no argument, the signalled junction is safer for the vulnerable road user than the roundabout. An American study that only considers car movements isn't all that valid.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,517 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    "In general, roundabouts are safer for cyclists than conventional intersections and signalised intersections"

    Argument I'd say. I guess the design of the roundabout is important too.

    https://swov.nl/en/fact/roundabouts-how-safe-are-intersections-pedestrians



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,062 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Or they could just ease the legislative burden on developing any of these projects now, by removing some of the green tape, and just getting the damn thing built.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,517 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    They can't do that. EU regs etc. where do you think the money is coming from?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,201 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    With the exception of a couple of projects (N28, N21) that we're drawing on TEN-T funds for, the money is ours these days.

    Environmental laws are still in effect regardless of what parties are in government. And it’s not just about CO2. Galway is a shitshow. The reason it’s a shitshow is that there’s no viable alternative to driving for so many people. Building this road without addressing that root problem will just end up with more cars: it has happened everywhere on earth, Galway won‘t be different - actually, it already happened in Galway when the existing N6 was widened through the city.

    More and better buses, better cycleways, more alternatives to just getting in the car. Revisit the light-rail idea. Do those things, and the ring-road would actually help in an overall reduction of CO2 (stuck traffic is the worst kind in terms of emissions per km travelled). Skip them, and it’s just building another traffic jam. The application failed because the court rightly saw that the government had not followed its own environmental commitments: it was only planning to build a big new road, and would be completely free to skip the traffic reduction parts of fixing the problem



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,310 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I seriously doubt that it'll be possible to offset even a majority of emissions from this ring road with changes within the ring, nevermind all. The end-to-end bypass with multiple junctions will be a magnet for cars and very few will switch to PT if such a ring road is available. Given the chronic traffic now, the ring road can become very congested and most will still see it as better than taking PT. A simple sop to PT possibly would have been enough a couple of years ago but that isn't going to be enough now.

    It is clear that a new plan is needed. That has been clear for years but given those supporting the new government, more time (possibly years) is likely to be wasted until the courts eventually kill the project.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,318 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    Galway is a mess due to opposition to the ring road. If it had been built, better bus corridors, cycleways and other developments could have happened on the city roads not meant for cars. Politicians, Galway city and county council and especially greedy wealthy opponents who live close to the proposed development have blood on their hands. The amount of people having close calls trying to drive to that hospital through miles of traffic with sick people is breathtaking and shameful. The amount of stress caused to families whose commute is frustrated every single day due to no proper road is shocking and very bad for people’s health.
    If the road isn’t built, the main hospital should be moved from the West of the city, the infrastructure isn’t there to support it there. The West should be left and not developed. There should be consequences to the actions of the few against the will of the majority.
    No Salthill cycleway should be built without an alternative road for cars and traffic, etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,310 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Do you have anything to show that we're drawing on TEN-T funds for the M21 and M28?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,468 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    The amount of people having close calls trying to drive to that hospital through miles of traffic with sick people is breathtaking and shameful.

    How many people have had close calls due to being stuck in Galway traffic en route to UHG?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 41,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I originally began deconstructing this nonsense and addressing each "point" one by one but gave up because, really, it's just nonsense along the lines of Maude Flanders and "won't somebody please think of the children"



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,409 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    More than that, it reads like "if only you'd let us finish this road, then we'd focus on everything else that REALLY needs to happen afterwards"….well…why not both?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,378 ✭✭✭Consonata


    There probably is a future for this project as part of a larger package of works aimed at reducing congestion in the city.

    The road could compliment well with reducing lanes on radial roads so as to facilitate bus corridors into the city from park and rides on the outskirts. Could also benefit if they ever did come up with some sort of a GART proposal between Galway station and Athenry again with park and rides to ferry people quickly into the city.

    Unfortunately the council's modus operandi will always be the bloody road and nothing else. If the road is built in isolation, it will for a certainty make traffic inside the city so much worse if we don't bundle in other dense public transport proposals.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,256 ✭✭✭SeanW


    The problem with this line of thinking is that we've seen so many commentators demanding everything else, while demanding that no bypass be built at all. Given the rising power of anti-motorist jihadis, it's important IMO that the local authority proceed with care. They should ensure that the ring road or whatever it is called now is included as part of a broader plan.

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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 41,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    anti-motorist jihadis

    Ah, would you ever stop with the nonsense Sean? You could have posted a reasonable argument but instead go and ruin it with childish crap like that!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,201 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    @SeanW If you want to call people “jihadis” just for holding an opposing opinion to yours, then the Daily Mail has a website where you’ll find a more receptive audience…

    You overestimate the “no ring-road at all” lobby. They’re not large, and not credible. Everyone with any sense realises that there needs to be a way to get past the centre of Galway, and that means a new road. The arguments against this plan were primarily that it won’t fix the problem: it’s using the “add more lanes” approach that has tried and failed everywhere it’s been used. You build a new road, and you end up with more traffic, and five years later, journey times are back where they were. This shouldn’t be controversial. If people are given no alternative way of getting into the city, car traffic will just increase to fill the available space.

    My objection to this road was that it came with nothing else to fix the problems in Galway, and there were only vague promises of “oh, something with bikes, and a bus or two, maybe” to be done at some indeterminate time afterwards. You’re right that the road won’t get permission unless it’s part of a full plan for fixing Galway’s appalling traffic congestion, but there seems to be no interest from GCC in putting the work in on such a plan. The longer they delay, the longer Galway will have to put up with its stupid levels of traffic.

    (My secondary argument against this planned road was the use of very expensive tunnelled stretches just to placate the owners of the racecourse: a routing should have been found that avoided this enormous extra cost)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,409 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    I also thought that the quantity of junctions looked like an obvious (deliberate) problem. It was clear that this road was being designed as both a development facilitator and a bypass, and that it would both fail in its purpose(s) and cause a bigger problem of car dependency to be resolved by "someone else" at "some time" in the future. There is a distributor road already (which is dysfunctional) people need both.

    I think most people here are in agreement with the idea that "doing this proposed road in isolation is likely not a good idea". It's not about being anti-car.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,193 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Great post.

    The great and fundamental weakness of the GCRR propasal - was that it was not tied in with 100% concrete measures to be implemented in tandem on existing network when the so called "freed up space" would be available. It would have it gotten it over the line years ago if they have done that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,256 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Perhaps I should have used the term "activist" but a stronger term is definitely applicable to some.

    Normally I don't put much stock in the principle of "induced demand" being a bad thing, because IMHO people being able to get around is not, at least ipso facto, a bad thing.

    I do agree with a lot of what you have said though about doing a ring road in isolation. I think anyone would agree for a growing region just building roads is a bad idea. Indeed, that was what went wrong in Dublin - most of the investment in transport infrastructure in Dublin came in the form of the M50 (including the Port Tunnel) but it's been mainly crumbs for public transport for example. Two tram lines, a few extra bits of bus lane here and there, and some platform lengthening on the DART. I know from personal experience how awful PT in Dublin was when I worked there, the few high quality transport links in the immediate region were crammed like sardine cans.

    I agree that Galway should be told in no uncertain terms not to repeat this mistake. However, in defence of the local authorities, I do see them fearing that there are those seeking to make sure the road does not happen under any circumstances, and I could see them being afraid that if they took measures "in advance of" the ring road or "in the meantime" those would become "instead of" if either an economic crisis or environmentalist/anti motorist pressure caused the road to be cancelled.

    This situation - in equal measure to a "roads only" solution, must be avoided, and IMHO they have a mandate to prevent both.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 916 ✭✭✭Glenomra


    The indefinite postponement of the construction of the ring road, be it justified or not, is certainly impacting on Galway's development at the moment. More people that traditionally went shopping\socialising in Galway that I know are going to Limerick City instead. The Crescent and Jetland shopping centres etc are so easily accessed because of Limerick tunnel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,378 ✭✭✭Consonata


    However, in defence of the local authorities, I do see them fearing that there are those seeking to make sure the road does not happen under any circumstances, and I could see them being afraid that if they took measures "in advance of" the ring road or "in the meantime" those would become "instead of" if either an economic crisis or environmentalist/anti motorist pressure caused the road to be cancelled.

    This is being rather too generous to GCC. They have never had a clear plan for PT for the city that wasn't enforced upon them by the NTA.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,409 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    I understand where you're coming from (and agree in principle) but the same council you're giving "the benefit of doubt" are generally strongly against ANY sustainable transport projects. They won't even do bike lanes and footpath upgrades for the most part - the very easiest things to get done.



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