M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

L1011

Making the junctions freeflow would be massively expensive, massively disruptive, have an extremely contentious planning process and really achieve nothing without another bridge. Would be a fantastic way to waste money

You'd also effectively be creating an urban motorway of the type that most cities are looking to remove.

Sam Russell

L1011 wrote: »

Making the junctions freeflow would be massively expensive, massively disruptive, have an extremely contentious planning process and really achieve nothing without another bridge. Would be a fantastic way to waste money

You'd also effectively be creating an urban motorway of the type that most cities are looking to remove.

How much is expensive? Would it cost as much as the bypass? €600 million for four or five small bridges over a dual carriageway - is that expensive? How long would that take? - and how disruptive?

Would it be as disruptive and as expensive as a few tunnels, a new bridge over the Corrib, and major land CPO plus putting people out of their homes? Compared to the bypass, it would be small beer.

Galway has had a few unsuccessful goes at solving its traffic problem over the years by putting in roundabouts all over the place and then taking them out again to replace them with huge traffic light junctions.

Not once has Galway City Council tried to provide adequate public transport. Maybe it should start by putting a few bus routes over the Quincetenary Bridge and a bus lane down Bothar na d'Treadh. That might allow people to get from the Westside to Briar Hill and Ballybrit in the morning and back home in the evening.

L1011

The back button here is a curse - I've just lost an extensive reply, so this is going to be a lot more terse

You either actually do not know the road around Galway at all or are wilfully ignoring what you do know - you decide. There is no further option.

It isn't "four or five small bridges". You have 270 degree turns in the mainline with extensive construction abutting the junctions. You have S4 roads that would become lethal if given the false security that grade separated roads have; and converting them to divided would add tens of millions in costs. CPO would be contested to the ends of the earth at every level.

You would spend in excess of 100m on this and it would deliver nothing. It would fail to meet any cost/benefit analysis. You'd end up with an urban motorway hundreds of metres from the city centre; something everywhere else is trying to remove. And the bypass would be still be required, meaning you've not "saved" 600m, you've thrown 100m+ in the bin

It is an "unsuccessful go" out of the box. It is an incredibly bad idea, I suspect drawn from afar in a manner similar to the Partition of India.

what_traffic

youngrun wrote: »

Only updates are what ABP has issued to Council
Summary here https://connachttribune.ie/an-bord-pleanala-put-ring-road-plan-under-microscope-300/

Very closed process with no info online post application

Who then pass it onto the project team. They don't even have to leave the building. Saves on stamps. :rolleyes:

http://www.n6galwaycity.ie/contact-us/
"
The current N6 Galway City Transport Project is being managed by the National Roads Project Office (NRPO) of Galway County Council on behalf of both Councils. A dedicated project office staffed by the appointed consultant, Arup, has been established beside the NRPO in Ballybrit.
"

serfboard

Sam Russell wrote: »

Not once has Galway City Council tried to provide adequate public transport.

When it comes to radial cross-town routes, and specifically Knocknacarra to Ballybrit, this is correct. It is currently not possible to get from Knocknacarra to Ballybrit by PT without changing buses.

Sam Russell wrote: »

Maybe it should start by putting a few bus routes over the Quincetenary Bridge ...

Absolutely.

Sam Russell wrote: »

... and a bus lane down Bothar na d'Treadh.

Define Bothar na dTreabh - because on OSM it goes from Seamus Quirke Road all the way to Briarhill.

If you put a Bus lane over the bridge section, you will stop all traffic in Galway.

Ditto if you put a Bus Lane on the Headford Road section.

Similar if you put one on the Racecourse section, particularly inbound (East-West) in the morning and outbound (West-East) in the evening.

Leaving the only stretch you could put a Bus Lane, being the stretch between the Tuam and Headford Roads. Now that will probably help a little, but not a lot.

Sam Russell

L1011 wrote: »

The back button here is a curse - I've just lost an extensive reply, so this is going to be a lot more terse

You either actually do not know the road around Galway at all or are wilfully ignoring what you do know - you decide. There is no further option.

It isn't "four or five small bridges". You have 270 degree turns in the mainline with extensive construction abutting the junctions. You have S4 roads that would become lethal if given the false security that grade separated roads have; and converting them to divided would add tens of millions in costs. CPO would be contested to the ends of the earth at every level.

You would spend in excess of 100m on this and it would deliver nothing. It would fail to meet any cost/benefit analysis. You'd end up with an urban motorway hundreds of metres from the city centre; something everywhere else is trying to remove. And the bypass would be still be required, meaning you've not "saved" 600m, you've thrown 100m+ in the bin

It is an "unsuccessful go" out of the box. It is an incredibly bad idea, I suspect drawn from afar in a manner similar to the Partition of India.

I do know my way around Galway, and the inept development of Galway has led to this gridlock. There is plenty of room over most of the Botha ns d'Treabh with five major junctions to be sorted. They do not all need to be sorted at once - Terryland, Tuam Road, Ballybane RD, Monivea Rd, Coolagh Roundabout, and the Martin Roundabout.

The problem is the volume of traffic hitting the Coolagh Roundabout from the M6, heading for Briar Hill and Ballybrit. Traffic heading for GUH and GU are the other problems that need sorting. The proposed bypass does not solve any of these.

The lack of PT and P&R means most people have no choice but to drive, and so they sit in traffic. The bypass on its own does nothing to fix this.

spacetweek

L1011 wrote: »

Making the junctions freeflow would be massively expensive, massively disruptive, have an extremely contentious planning process and really achieve nothing without another bridge. Would be a fantastic way to waste money

You'd also effectively be creating an urban motorway of the type that most cities are looking to remove.

What he said.

Let's face it, the current Galway Bypass is a distributor road and nothing more. It's not appropriate to be trying to make it into an urban expressway. Anybody who lived near it would hate it and a few years later we'd be trying to figure out how to get rid of it again.

A programme of new distributor road construction including several new Corrib bridges would be a better idea, and at least we'll get one (motorway grade to boot) with the new bypass project.

Additional information on Ring Road should clear way for Oral Hearing

https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/additional-information-on-ring-road-should-clear-way-for-oral-hearing/

That’s according to Galway West TD and Junior Minister Sean Kyne who says Galway County Council has provided additional information on the project as requested by An Bord Pleanála.

The information covers issues including environmental impact and traffic patterns and volumes.

Minister Kyne says An Bord Pleanála will now be evaluating the information and may put it on display to allow for public opinion.

The Fine Gael Minister says it should allow a date for an oral hearing to be set which he expects will be in early 2020, if not by the end of this year.

Ruhanna

serfboard wrote: »

When it comes to radial cross-town routes, and specifically Knocknacarra to Ballybrit, this is correct. It is currently not possible to get from Knocknacarra to Ballybrit by PT without changing buses.

If you put a Bus lane over the bridge section, you will stop all traffic in Galway.

Ditto if you put a Bus Lane on the Headford Road section.

That makes no sense.

You are pointing out that there is no radial bus route in Galway, then you immediately claim that a dedicated bus lane to provide for such a service would "stop all traffic in Galway".

This is the kind of reactionary thinking that has stagnated transport planning in Galway for decades.

If there was a cross-town bus service (or a Gluas, for those who are into that sort of thing) then commuter travel would be freed up, not stopped.

Such an orbital route would also facilitate cycle commuting. In such a situation car commuters could switch to these other modes and by definition would not be stopped at all.

These notions about "stopping all traffic" arise from a mindset which sees car travel as the most important mode and therefore the yardstick by which all transport proposals must be measured.

It is epitomised by a classic Galway attitude: complaining about allegedly "empty" bus lanes and gridlock while sitting alone in a car, along with thousands of others doing the same thing, collectively wasting vast amounts of road space which could be put to far better use.

serfboard

Ruhanna wrote: »

That makes no sense.

You are pointing out that there is no radial bus route in Galway, then you immediately claim that a dedicated bus lane to provide for such a service would "stop all traffic in Galway".

This is the kind of reactionary thinking that has stagnated transport planning in Galway for decades.

If there was a cross-town bus service (or a Gluas, for those who are into that sort of thing) then commuter travel would be freed up, not stopped.

Such an orbital route would also facilitate cycle commuting. In such a situation car commuters could switch to these other modes and by definition would not be stopped at all.

These notions about "stopping all traffic" arise from a mindset which sees car travel as the most important mode and therefore the yardstick by which all transport proposals must be measured.

It is epitomised by a classic Galway attitude: complaining about allegedly "empty" bus lanes and gridlock while sitting alone in a car, along with thousands of others doing the same thing, collectively wasting vast amounts of road space which could be put to far better use.

There is currently no cross-town bus route (specifically Knocknacarra->Ballybrit) which uses the bridge. If you put a route in, sans bus lane, it will be just as slow as a car, will therefore not be used, and will not reduce traffic.

The disruption caused by putting in a Bus Lane, (and thus reducing the traffic on the bridge to one lane) will stop all traffic in Galway. That's just a fact.

Afterward, of course, the Bus Lane with buses every 10 minutes at peak and every half-hour off-peak would significantly ease congestion.

The SQR Bus Lane installation was disruptive, but that was adding an extra lane to an existing road. Taking a currently heavily-used lane out of commission for weeks or months, would be disastrous, and that is why it is not and will not be done, except until after the Ring Road is built.

Ruhanna

Bus lanes do not stop traffic.

Traffic stops traffic.

What the diehard car commuters of Galway seem to want is public transport that allows them to stay in their cars no matter what.

Changing a lane on the Quincentenary Bridge to a bus corridor would increase the throughput of the road, not reduce it.

That's if high capacity buses are provided of course, and there's an actual orbital bus service, as is being promised by Bus Connects in Dublin.

It makes no sense at all for car commuters who want to stay in their cars to (a) complain about car traffic and (b) resist measures that would increase the carrying capacity of roads by means of modal switch on a significant scale.

Car commuters cannot complain about traffic congestion if at the same time they are rejecting measures to reduce car dependence!

serfboard wrote: »

Taking a currently heavily-used lane out of commission for weeks or months, would be disastrous.

Converting a general traffic lane to a bus lane is not decommissioning it. It's the exact opposite, ie changing an inefficiently used lane to an efficiently used one.

serfboard

Ruhanna wrote: »

Bus lanes do not stop traffic.

Traffic stops traffic.

What the diehard car commuters of Galway seem to want is public transport that allows them to stay in their cars no matter what.

Changing a lane on the Quincentenary Bridge to a bus corridor would increase the throughput of the road, not reduce it.

That's if high capacity buses are provided of course, and there's an actual orbital bus service, as is being promised by Bus Connects in Dublin.

It makes no sense at all for car commuters who want to stay in their cars to (a) complain about car traffic and (b) resist measures that would increase the carrying capacity of roads by means of modal switch on a significant scale.

Car commuters cannot complain about traffic congestion if at the same time they are rejecting measures to reduce car dependence!

Your statements of the blindingly obvious aside, I am not talking about Bus Lanes reducing traffic.

I am talking about the disruption of the construction of Bus Lanes reducing traffic. You get that, do you?

A single car-crash on the bridge at the moment is enough to stop all traffic in Galway. The construction of Bus Lanes, where you take a lane out for weeks if not months, will have the same effect.

Do you get it now?

Carol25

serfboard wrote: »

Your statements of the blindingly obvious aside, I am not talking about Bus Lanes reducing traffic.

I am talking about the disruption of the construction of Bus Lanes reducing traffic. You get that, do you?

A single car-crash on the bridge at the moment is enough to stop all traffic in Galway. The construction of Bus Lanes, where you take a lane out for weeks if not months, will have the same effect.

Do you get it now?

I wouldn’t give posters like Ruhanna and others the ammunition. They’re just arguing for the sake of it and clearly have other reasons or vested interests to oppose the bypass around Galway. There is supposed to be another thread dedicated to solving Galway’s traffic issue that moderators should be moving posts trying to troll this thread to...
This thread is supposed to be purely about the bypass, it’s structure, planning, etc. I’ve consistently seen rules being broken by posters opposed to the bypass on this thread and the other and no action, warnings given and in fact one might say a free for all allowed. A few months ago health/medical card posts allowed on this thread says it all...

youngrun

ANy one a link to the Ring road application/planning case online? Do Bord Pleanala maintain one? I wonder if the recent FI has been submitted and what next

Sam Russell

Carol25 wrote: »

I wouldn’t give posters like Ruhanna and others the ammunition. They’re just arguing for the sake of it and clearly have other reasons or vested interests to oppose the bypass around Galway. There is supposed to be another thread dedicated to solving Galway’s traffic issue that moderators should be moving posts trying to troll this thread to...
This thread is supposed to be purely about the bypass, it’s structure, planning, etc. I’ve consistently seen rules being broken by posters opposed to the bypass on this thread and the other and no action, warnings given and in fact one might say a free for all allowed. A few months ago health/medical card posts allowed on this thread says it all...

Mod: Did you report those posts?

If you do not report threads you consider break the rules, then you cannot complain on thread about it. Mods do not read every post in every thread.

Report posts that you think break the rules. Bitching after the fact is not good enough.

OK?

youngrun

http://www.n6galwaycity.ie/phase-4/bulletin-21-update-03092019/

Latest

marno21

youngrun wrote: »

http://www.n6galwaycity.ie/phase-4/bulletin-21-update-03092019/

Latest

Fingers crossed for a decision in the 2nd half of 2020

remfan

Realistically, that's if it gets built at all I cannot see this opening this side of 2027. In the meantime, they should consider initiatives such as this one, which has been trialed successfully in Dunkirk, to try to alleviate the on-going traffic chaos https://www.france24.com/en/20190831-france-dunkirk-free-transportation-bus-success-climate-cities

what_traffic

[QUOTE=youngru

n;111288090]http://www.n6galwaycity.ie/phase-4/bulletin-21-update-03092019/

Latest[/QUOTE]

My favorite line from this short 2 paragraph PR
"
We appreciate that the process has taken longer than originally anticipated and as always, we are available at the project office to meet and discuss this project if you have any questions.
"

what_traffic

marno21 wrote: »

Fingers crossed for a decision in the 2nd half of 2020

Depends on Oral Hearing I reckon. If Oral Hearing is the later, i.e Q1 2020 as per PR - will then be 3rd Quarter of 2020 (usually takes 6 months for ABP to make a decision on a big project like this)

marno21

what_traffic wrote: »

Depends on Oral Hearing I reckon. If Oral Hearing is the later, i.e Q1 2020 as per PR - will then be 3rd Quarter of 2020 (usually takes 6 months for ABP to make a decision on a big project like this)

I think you’re right. M28 Oral Hearing was in November with decision published the following July - around 7 months of a turn around. I reckon this could be longer though given the volume of material ABP have to deal with

what_traffic

Further public consultation on city ring road plan (September 19, 2019)
https://connachttribune.ie/further-public-consultation-on-city-ring-road-plan/

Am thinking that Oral Hearing will be Q1 2020 after reading this

tharlear

Yes!! A decision is pending, where have I seen that before

05-11-2008, 17:52 #1

Chris_533976

M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]
________________________________________
Ok there isnt a thread yet for this much needed scheme, so heres one.

Apparently a decision on the CPO is due on the 7th November. Yes, a Galway paper has reported this, so take it with a pinch of salt.
Quote:
A decision on the Galway City Outer Bypass is expected this Friday, 7 November.

The eagerly awaited decision from An Bord Pleanála has been held up repeatedly for a number of reasons, most recently the mandatory translation into Irish of the planning authority's order.

According to a spokesman for An Bord Pleanála, the Galway City Outer Bypass is "one of the most complex projects" the board has on its books at the moment.

"This is a complex case and there's a lot involved. It's a very technical order and that's time consuming to translate. This isn't the first time this has happened; it often does in Gaeltacht areas. Because the Irish version is also a legal document, we have to be satisfied with it legally," he explained.

Galway Chamber, IBEC West and a number of local representatives, including Frank Fahey, have been supportive of the bypass in the past, but it's now uncertain whether Government funding will be available to complete it due to Budget cutbacks.
http://www.galwayindependent.com/loc...ion-by-friday/

Yes, with the cutbacks who knows whats going to happen to this. However, it wasnt specifically on the chop list. Will it be a tolled PPP? Who knows. Being as close as it is (~50km) from the Cappaghtaggle toll on the M6 to Dublin and being that it'll be the 3rd Dublin - Galway toll I doubt it.

Who knows. All will be revealed I'm sure. What we do know is that this is fairly high on the 'NRA list of priorities'

Chris_5339762

Waving at my post from eleven years ago

Chris_5339762

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Waving at my post from eleven years ago

You're welcome to return to the 20th annisversary as well

what_traffic

tharlear wrote: »

Yes!! A decision is pending, where have I seen that before

You are a bit early. Won't be until 2020 when hit that stage.

what_traffic

http://www.n6galwaycityringroad.ie/Response,Report,Links/
"
Request for Further Information Response

Volume 1 - RFI Response Report
Volume 2 – RFI Response Report Appendices
Volume 3 – A.2.1 Route Selection Report (RSR)
Volume 4 – Appendix A.10.1 Design Report (DR)
"

marno21

Sunday Business Post wrote:

The oral hearing for the proposed Galway ring road project, which was expected to commence this year, has been delayed until 2020.

In recent weeks, the public consultation process for the Galway city bypass project reopened after additional information about the development was filed at the request of An Bord Pleanála.

An oral hearing is due to convene before a final planning decision is made on whether to approve the project.

The public consultation process had to be reopened until October 25 after further information about the project was supplied by Galway’s city and county councils, but it was hoped that the oral hearing would still take place before 2020. Sources familiar with the situation said there is not enough time left to organise the hearing before the end of this year and a sitting will now be convened in the opening months of 2020.

Could yet be 2021 before a decision is reached. It took 8 months for a decision on the M28 post oral hearing.

youngrun

http://www.n6galwaycity.ie/update/bulletin-22-update-06122019/

A readvertisement of further information required , pushes out submissions to end Jan 20

Limerick74

youngrun wrote: »

http://www.n6galwaycity.ie/update/bulletin-22-update-06122019/

A readvertisement of further information required , pushes out submissions to end Jan 20

Very strange request.