Send in the Clowns - BAC 10K Challenge

Krusty_Clown

A few niggles from yesterdays speed session.
Today: Hal Higdon's Weights and 13 sets of core strength exercises.

TheRoadRunner

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Today:

Wasn't sure about doing speedwork so soon after the marathon,

Personally I wouldn't be doing speed work so soon.

Experienced runners in my club have a mantra, for every mile you race they reckon you need an easy day equivalent. For a marathon that equates to 26 easy days of running. I normally take it very hand for 2-3 weeks just tipping around before even considering doing speed sessions.

It's a hard thing to do, mentally you feel like you are loosing fitness but the easy runs help maintain it. Back in 2007 I took a month off basically and then did a month of normal miles with some speed thrown in. I ran PBs in just about every race I ran over the following month !


IMHO speed so soon after a marathon could incur an injury. Every man to himself though.

Krusty_Clown

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

for every mile you race they reckon you need an easy day equivalent.

Thanks TheRoadRunner. I wouldn't normally consider doing speed-work (or any running) for a week after the marathon, except that I wasn't racing, instead, I was taking it quite handy (it was actually slower than my recent LSRs). But yes, I think I should have rested up for an extra day or two, more because of the amount of time I spent on my feet (3:40), rather than the extra six miles.

TheRoadRunner

ah yes sorry. I forgot you were pacing somebody and not running your own race. Still, I would give it a couple more days before doing anything hardish. I guess your sore legs are telling you that as well

cfitz

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

Experienced runners in my club have a mantra, for every mile you race they reckon you need an easy day equivalent.

6 easy days after a 10k? Sounds like a lot...

Stupid_Private

cfitz wrote: »

6 easy days after a 10k? Sounds like a lot...

That works out right for me. After a 10k race my coach won't have me do any speed work until the following Friday - so if the race is on a Saturday that means I'd do 6 days easy running before upping the pace again. If the race was a Sunday then it'd only be 5 days.

Longer races is where this formula may fall apart for me as I wouldn't go 10 days after a 10 mile race with no speedwork. Again probably only 5 or 6 but I certainly wouldn't do any session where I'd be killing myself that week.

Even though you didn't race the marathon Krusty I'd hold back somewhat (a gear or two less than normal) in your speedwork for this week and probably the first one next week.

TheRoadRunner

cfitz wrote: »

6 easy days after a 10k? Sounds like a lot...

Sorry should have been more precise. That was specifically for a marathon. After months of long miles and one supreme effort the body usually needs down time. I wouldn't necessarily take 6-10 days off after 6 or 10 mile races. Would take at least a couple of days if I have pushed really hard in the race though

uglyjohn

i must have a read of this thread to see how you're getting on. i think im in a similar position to you at the start, i've just finished a marathon and now i dont really have anything im aiming for so i think i'll try and improve my 10k time and hopefully carry that over into my next marathon.

Krusty_Clown

uglyjohn wrote: »

i must have a read of this thread to see how you're getting on. i think im in a similar position to you at the start, i've just finished a marathon and now i dont really have anything im aiming for so i think i'll try and improve my 10k time and hopefully carry that over into my next marathon.

I heartily endorse going from a marathon program to a 10k program between marathons. It will improve your speed greatly, gives you a lot more variety in the types of runs you have to do, and the training doesn't consume as much time as marathon training.

My 10k times:
2006 - 54, 52
2007- 47
2008 - 45, 43, 40
2009 - Hopefully, sub 40!
It was the combination of marathon training followed by the 10k program that got my times down. Also since the 10k program, my marathon training is at a much faster pace, so the speed-work has carried through to my current training. Looking forward to finishing this marathon program and switching to another 10k program!

stmochtas

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

My 10k times:
2006 - 54, 52
2007- 47
2008 - 45, 43, 40
2009 - Hopefully, sub 40!

Krusty, Did you complete marathon(s) in each of these years? I am hoping to get from 49 to 44 this year but the longest race I will run could be a half.

Krusty_Clown

stmochtas wrote: »

Krusty, Did you complete marathon(s) in each of these years? I am hoping to get from 49 to 44 this year but the longest race I will run could be a half.

Hi stmochtas, no I didn't.
2006 - I ran 54 and 52 in Bupa and the Port Tunnel run, having never really done any running before (giving up the fags).
2007 - Did the Connemara half - training consisted of a mid-week 5 miler, and a hilly 10 mile run at the weekends. Did the 47 at Bupa a couple of weeks after Connemara
2008 - Connemara half again, same kind of training, but started marathon training afterwards. Did the 43 in Donadea after running Longford in 3:25. Then Did Dublin marathon in 3:21. Then did Amadeus' 10k training program (hence the out-dated title of this training log) and ran 40:30 in December).
2009 - Doing a lot more mileage and running a lot faster, so hoping to run 3:07 in Edinburgh in May and also hopefully get that sub-40 for the 10k.

Long-winded reply! The answer is no!

Krusty_Clown

Skipped yesterday's session, as I could still feel that niggle in my left calf.
Today: 7 miles with 8x100m strides
Stuck to the grass, as still a touch of post marathon recovery. Forget my HRM, so ran at a comfortable pace, which worked out pretty brisk (only slightly slower than PMP).

Summary: 7 Miles @7:14/mile, in 50 mins.

stmochtas

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Hi stmochtas, no I didn't.
2006 - I ran 54 and 52 in Bupa and the Port Tunnel run, having never really done any running before (giving up the fags).
2007 - Did the Connemara half - training consisted of a mid-week 5 miler, and a hilly 10 mile run at the weekends. Did the 47 at Bupa a couple of weeks after Connemara
2008 - Connemara half again, same kind of training, but started marathon training afterwards. Did the 43 in Donadea after running Longford in 3:25. Then Did Dublin marathon in 3:21. Then did Amadeus' 10k training program (hence the out-dated title of this training log) and ran 40:30 in December).
2009 - Doing a lot more mileage and running a lot faster, so hoping to run 3:07 in Edinburgh in May and also hopefully get that sub-40 for the 10k.

Long-winded reply! The answer is no!

Thanks Krusty. My plan is not run a marathon this year and see how far I can take my 10k speed. The story so far is 48:54 in Clondalkin and 49:00 in Tubercurry. Hoping to PB the Bupa though. I might look at marathon training if I don't get results from the 10k program I am on.

Krusty_Clown

stmochtas wrote: »

Thanks Krusty. My plan is not run a marathon this year and see how far I can take my 10k speed. The story so far is 48:54 in Clondalkin and 49:00 in Tubercurry. Hoping to PB the Bupa though. I might look at marathon training if I don't get results from the 10k program I am on.

I'm intent on getting a PB for 10k too, but decided against Bupa, as the crowd makes it difficult to accomplish your goal. I think I'll have a go at that other Phoenix Park 10k race in early May (ARC challenge). It's a pity that there's f3ck all information available about the course though. I see it's sponsored by the Mongolian BBQ, so maybe there'll be some nice sticky ribs after the race.

Krusty_Clown

Today: 13.1 miles of sand, sea, sunshine and fields (and wind!). Got quite dehydrated, so didn't finish as comfortably as I would have liked (the wind and a couple of small but steep hills might have contributed too). But reasonable pace anyway.

Summary: 13.1 miles in 1:38, @7:28/mile, HR=153.

Krusty_Clown

Yesterday: 90 mins Astro football, with 10 minute warm-up. Great to get back to it, after a marathon-related lay-off - but jaysus, it hurts.. It's gotta be good for me, when it hurts that much. Covered just over 4.5 miles on the pitch.

Love those track-logs!

Krusty_Clown

Today: Nice leisurely run with a buddy who is getting ready for his first half-marathon. Close to 10min/mile pace, but after yesterdays return to football, the easy pace suited me fine.

Summary: 6 miles in 59 mins, @9:49/mile

Krusty_Clown

To: All you sub-3'ers*: I salute you!
*: Including the three who will join the clan this weekend in Rotterdam!!

Today called for a 12 mile LT session, with 7 miles @Half Marathon - 15k pace (which I note is a sub-3 hour marathon pace). I found it very tough going, for just seven miles, so I appreciate just how much hard-work you have put into your training to get where you are today).

Still carrying a lot of muscle pain from football, so less than ideal conditions for an LT session, but I just hate missing an important session, particularly when the sun is shining, so decided I'd see how I felt after the warm-up miles. The laps of Cabinteely Park have a couple of short hills, so pace is a little difficult to manage, but glad to say I completed the session, though I was pretty wrecked afterwards. Average pace for the seven faster miles: 6:47.

Summary: 12 miles in 1:27 @7:14/mile, HR=153.

Slogger Jogger

I'll do my best to live up to that. Great running. You're in great form. Will you make the WW trail race the weekend after next?

Krusty_Clown

I'm hoping to make it alright, sounds like a great race, and I've hiked all of those sections before (albeit in the other direction). I do want to record a good time in the Wexford half the following week too.

I take it that with your successful bid at the sub 3, you wont be participating in the IMRA race?

asimonov

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Today called for a 12 mile LT session, with 7 miles @Half Marathon - 15k pace (which I note is a sub-3 hour marathon pace). I found it very tough going, for just seven miles, so I appreciate just how much hard-work you have put into your training to get where you are today).

i did something similar a few days ago in terms of pace and distance, it was so much harder than grinding miles out at (my) marathon pace. I'm hoping it will be easier in wexford as there should be something other than the effort to occupy the mind. It's either that or bring an extra lung! Do you plan to do anything specific for wexford or just keep on the marathon programme?

Krusty_Clown

asimonov wrote: »

i did something similar a few days ago in terms of pace and distance, it was so much harder than grinding miles out at (my) marathon pace. I'm hoping it will be easier in wexford as there should be something other than the effort to occupy the mind. It's either that or bring an extra lung! Do you plan to do anything specific for wexford or just keep on the marathon programme?

Hi Asimonov, nothing specific. In fact the plan to do the Wicklow Way trail race is gaining traction, so that might be my training run for the Wexford half marathon.

I just checked my P&D schedule for the weekend of the 19th, and I'm supposed to be doing a 17 mile run with 14 miles @PMP, so I reckon trying to beat 1:30 for the half in Wexford will be a good alternative (faster than PMP, but shorter). Are you going to try and beat 90 mins?

asimonov

I'm up for it, but its a marginal call as to whether i'll make it!

I reckon i'll pace it so at 10 miles i'm there or thereabouts and i'll just try my damnedest from there. If i make it, great, if not, at least i'll know my limit for the future.

My best half marathon before was 1:46 from '06 connemara, so even if i miss by minutes it's all progress. If, on the day, you're still good to give it a go i'm sure we could help each other out.

Krusty_Clown

I have done 1:33 before in training, over a much hiller course, so I reckon if I take it easy the day before, it should be achievable. We should be aiming for around 6:50/mile. If I have it in me, I'll probably try and pick up the pace from mile 10 onwards.

asimonov

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I have done 1:33 before in training, over a much hiller course, so I reckon if I take it easy the day before, it should be achievable. We should be aiming for around 6:50/mile. If I have it in me, I'll probably try and pick up the pace from mile 10 onwards.

Sounds like a plan...i'll PM you closer to the day and we could hook up for it.

Slogger Jogger

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I'm hoping to make it alright, sounds like a great race, and I've hiked all of those sections before (albeit in the other direction). I do want to record a good time in the Wexford half the following week too.

I take it that with your successful bid at the sub 3, you wont be participating in the IMRA race?

I'm known for doing silly things like that. Last year I ran the trail race the week after the Conn full and I did quite well, so I'll play it by ear.

Krusty_Clown

Today: Schedule called for 12 miles aerobic, but I decided to cut it back to 8 miles, as I was supposed to head off on my bike to the Galtee mountains, for a mid-day hike. As it turns out, the weather in Cork is awful, so the hike has been canceled (Can't help but feel soft after reading the latest chapter of the Marathon Des Sables reports).

So I set off on my pre-breakfast run, grabbing a Honeystinger and a glass of water before I left. I just bought the Honeystingers, so this was the first time I tried one out. They're nice, if you like honey. Beautiful morning in Dublin for a run, but I'm not really a pre-breakfast runner. I start out like a geriatric, and minute by minute the aches and stiffness fall out, until normal service resumes. I got half-way through my run, before my stomach knotted up completely, and I was writhing in agony. Every step was a crunch on my stomach. Lesson Learned - Empty Stomach + Honey-based gel = Sick Krusty). So, four miles from home, suddenly I had a new priority - get home as quickly as possible. As I arrived close to the house, I looked at the watch, to realize that I had only covered 7.5 miles. Devastation. I never cut a run short.
Dilemma - [House + toilet] or [find an extra 0.5 miles + agony]. Agony won. New realization - I am addicted to running.

Summary: 8 miles in 1:03, @7:45/mile. HR=149.

Krusty_Clown

Another 4, to round off the 12.
4 Miles in 30 mins, @6:38/Mile.

Krusty_Clown

Today: 6 Hilly trail miles. Plan was for an easy 5 mile recovery run on a nice easy forest trail. Didn't happen. Tough run on already tired legs. I have no common sense. May have to change my plans for tomorrow's 20 mile run.
Summary: 6.5 Hilly miles, in 57 mins, @8:52/Mile.

Krusty_Clown

Canceled Sunday's 20 mile run, as my legs were telling me that it would be a mistake(shin and hip pain). Having done 3 x 20+ mile runs so far (including a 26.2), I'm well ahead of schedule for long runs, and I think two days of rest at this stage is more important. However, running has become such an important part of my daily schedule that missing out on a run is a very difficult thing for me to do. Note to self: Need to find a non-impact activity to sub for some training runs.

Today: Vo2Max - 8 Miles with 5x600m @5K pace
Still sore shin/hip, but was fine once I got onto the grass. Intervals went well. In fact I had to slow down a little, as my most recent 5k pace is 6min/mile, and I was running closer to 5:30-5:45. Stiff and sore afterwards though.

Summary: 8 miles in 59 mins @7:25/mile.
Interval pace: 5:47/mile.