Official bitch about daily life in UL

Ave Sodalis

wnolan1992 wrote: »

Who in the SU gets to decide if they're good reasons worth representing or not?

Common sense really. I mean, how many people are voting no because they disagree that gay couples should be allowed to adopt? However, the referendum is not going to affect that because it's coming in in a Bill beforehand. Similarly, any obvious homophobic or bigotted views should be dismissed (and in other cases, sexist, racist etc). Also any view that's based on claims that there's no proof for (a leaflet was handed out in Dublin saying that gay couples tend to be more promiscous and were more likely to die younger and therefore SSM shouldn't happen).

I mean, for other debates, it mightn't be so clear cut and if it's not, then let them away with it but, in particular with this one, some of the arguments are blaringly obvious that they aren't worth considering.

wnolan1992

sup_dude wrote: »

I mean, for other debates, it mightn't be so clear cut and if it's not, then let them away with it but, in particular with this one, some of the arguments are blaringly obvious that they aren't worth considering.

I think we're actually arguing different points to be honest. I'm happy that the SU will be supporting the Yes campaign, because like a poster earlier said, it'll help fight the complacency that comes with a lead in the polls (Fine Gael could tell you all about that with their failed Seanad takedown attempt :P). But I would have reservations about the precedent this sets for the SU getting involved in stuff like this.

It's precisely those less clear cut issues in the future that this decision has the potential to inflame. To me, the abortion issue a good example, because both sides have perfectly valid reasons (obviously let's not get into those here, as it's a different debate), so if the SU was to go down your route of not representing the majority if they don't present "good" reasons, then someone in the SU would have to determine whether the majority's reasons are "good". If the SU just blindly represents the majority even if it's a marginal majority, they risk alienating a massive portion of their already disinterested membership.

A 2/3's majority at a UGM on issues like this would be a good idea IMO. If it's not met, SU stays neutral.

But ultimately, I suppose it's of little real consequence.

Subutai

Ginge Young wrote: »

1) You are the one setting a precendent that claiming the union should not be allowed to take a stance in important political issues when the need arises or when it directly effects the lives/welfare of its students. Like I said any issue can come up down the line and I think the students themselves should be allowed to decide for themselves what stance they want to take. Not have a blanket policy of saying the Union can't take a stance.

I think that this is the policy the union should follow. I don't think that they should take stances on issues which aren't of direct relevance to their ability to represent students interests to the University. I think that taking stances on national political issues not only serves to alienate, but also serves to distract them from their work.

There are no shortage of political societies on campus who would be much better suited to such a campaign.

2) You are right, people can leave some Trade Unions, that is their prerogative, that doesn't negate the fact of how any union works. Yes, all students are automatically members of this union when they come here - but that doesn't mean you don't follow standard procedures of said union to determine it's policy on behalf of what it's students want. Students as a group don't have the opportunity to join any other Unions. This is their sole representative body

The ability to freely associate is hugely relevant here. Trade Unions don't take stances on issues that will alienate their membership for the precise reason that their membership can leave; a 5-10% drop in membership can kill a Trade Union, they are extremely careful because of this. We have no such safeguard in UL.

Students do not have another SU which they can join, this is true. However the SU is by no means the only organisation through which their voices can be heard. If I want to campaign in the University on a Pro-Choice stance I would join a political organisation that wanted to do that (likely Labour Youth). I don't need the SU.

I guess it's just a fundamental difference of opinion. This is how unions and representation work. We can still provide forums within UL for debate to be had (they just did), but the Union which does represents the views of the students should have the ability to take a stance on any issue, again whether that is for, against or neutral. If you can provide me with an example of any representative organisation/union of this nature that operates differently and satisfies the views of every single one of their members, be it in day to day running of said union or policy, I am genuinely open to hearing about it.

In general unions it is reasonable to assume that those who remain in the Union either agree with the stances taken by the Union, or do not disagree to such an extent that they are compelled to resign their membership. This is an important check on their power to adopt such stances.
The comparison simply cannot be made between ULSU and an organisation like SIPTU because they are fundamentally different organisations with fundamentally different purposes which are structured extremely differently and exist in extremely different contexts.

Ginge Young

Subutai wrote: »

I think that this is the policy the union should follow....There are no shortage of political societies on campus who would be much better suited to such a campaign.

Cool then that is where we are fundamentally different. I think the reach of the Union goes beyond just what they do here in the University. This is true in essentially any University. I think they are fully entitled to campaign on any issues relevant to their students, be that fees, or the welfare and equal treatment of their students. Do you think the SU should be allowed campaign against fees out of curiousity?

As for political societies, a lot students would not like to align themselves with any political society, nor should that be the only way to campaign and get involved. Students are a strong group, who can campaign themselves, independent of any political party. That is what is great about it.

Your alienation point I'm not convinced on though. Let's take it your way and the Union only takes stances on issues directly related to the University, what do you do about students feeling 'alienated' because the union supports repeats and there is 5 die hard students out there who don't think students should be allowed repeat exams? Or is it because we are being grown up and engaging with national issues that has people scared? Alienation is ok so long as it is with in house issues? Are we alienating a lot of people in the country if this referendum passes?

If people feeling alienated because more people disagree with them than agree with them is such a big problem, modern democracy would cease to exist. It's a terrible argument. Now I am not saying democracy is perfect, but it's the best solution we have at the moment to coming to a consensus on issues.

Subutai wrote: »

If I want to campaign in the University on a Pro-Choice stance I would join a political organisation that wanted to do that (likely Labour Youth). I don't need the SU.

Again, like I said, I personally wouldn't want the SU take a stance currently on that debate, that's just me. But again I don't see why you think a student should be forced to join a political party if they want to campaign for something? Unions, represent students, independent of political parties. I think that is a major thing in favour of it.

But overall mate, I think we need to agree to disagree, enjoyed the conversation though.

LilRedDorcha

Precious flower wrote: »

Yo, any post-FYP students 'ere? What's the deal with getting it bound on campus? Will they print it out and bind it for me or will I have to print it out myself? Do I have to have it converted into a special format or can I just have it on a USB in word document format? Also where do you get the front sheet with the UL logo and all that jazz? Thank you and good night!

I also went to the print room to get my one done last year. Make sure it's in pdf format with correct margin sizes before bringing it to them. I was in the day before my deadline and it was actually really empty in there. If you still don't have the UL logo page, PM me and I'll send you on the template I used for my cover page.

North of 32

People seem to be completely missing the point on the issue of whether or not the union should take a political stance (on issues that do not directly relate to education. The SU is obviously a political body but it should deal only with matters of education).

I hate having to qualify my points beforehand because it pisses me off so much that overly-righteous little pricks will completely discredit you if it's not made clear, but I am in favour of SSM.

The issue of SSM has nothing to do with my argument, however, and I would urge people to separate the two. I firmly believe in the principle of the union staying removed from political issues and not adopting stances. The SU does not need to have a position in political debates. Students are free to set up groups to lobby a position, or simply launch their own privately run campaigns on the campus.

Moving beyond the principle and considering UL specifically, if I understand them correctly, even the logistics of it is pathetic. We have something like 13,000 undergraduates but the quorum for UGMs is set at 100, and it only takes a simple majority to pass a vote. In effect, that puts the representative of the entire student body under the direction of 51 people. 51 out of a body of 13,000 unique individuals of every shore, shade and spirituality.

iLaura

North of 32 wrote: »

People seem to be completely missing the point on the issue of whether or not the union should take a political stance (on issues that do not directly relate to education. The SU is obviously a political body but it should deal only with matters of education).

I hate having to qualify my points beforehand because it pisses me off so much that overly-righteous little pricks will completely discredit you if it's not made clear, but I am in favour of SSM.

The issue of SSM has nothing to do with my argument, however, and I would urge people to separate the two. I firmly believe in the principle of the union staying removed from political issues and not adopting stances. The SU does not need to have a position in political debates. Students are free to set up groups to lobby a position, or simply launch their own privately run campaigns on the campus.

Moving beyond the principle and considering UL specifically, if I understand them correctly, even the logistics of it is pathetic. We have something like 13,000 undergraduates but the quorum for UGMs is set at 100, and it only takes a simple majority to pass a vote. In effect, that puts the representative of the entire student body under the direction of 51 people. 51 out of a body of 13,000 unique individuals of every shore, shade and spirituality.

If the SU remain apolitical then the SU cannot march/campaign for lower fees. Nor would they be able to protest against the starting wage of nurses, which is something like €6.30 an hour. Its impossible for the union to remain ambivalent to all political agenda, especially when it affects the student body directly.

North of 32

iLaura wrote: »

If the SU remain apolitical then the SU cannot march/campaign for lower fees. Nor would they be able to protest against the starting wage of nurses, which is something like €6.30 an hour. Its impossible for the union to remain ambivalent to all political agenda, especially when it affects the student body directly.

I acknowledged that the SU is not apolitical. It is absolutely a political body. It's political aims revolve around educational interests.

Fees relate to education. Student nurses are paid €6.30 before they qualify. They're still students, it's still a matter of education.

SSM has nothing to do with education. That is my logic and why I find it possible to separate the two.

Copper_pipe

Is there college the day before paddy's day?

jamo2oo9

Is SULIS down for anyone? I can't log in at all..

ricimaki

jamo2oo9 wrote: »

Is SULIS down for anyone? I can't log in at all..

Not working here either

onethreefive

I can't get into Sulis or my email

VanishingActs

Can't get in either, it says ''invalid login''.

Copper_pipe

Clearly doesnt want us logging on during RAG week :P

ScummyMan

Can't get on either..exam in the morning

onethreefive

I have everything from my Sulis saved onto a USB except the thing I actually need today!

wnolan1992

I suspect there was a power cut on campus this morning, which would explain SULIS' absence.

Ave Sodalis

wnolan1992 wrote: »

I suspect there was a power cut on campus this morning, which would explain SULIS' absence.

There was. At 6 o clock, to be exact. How do I know? Because that stupid high pitched alarm that goes off in the house when there's a power failure. I was up and down to bed every 20 minutes to turn the damn thing off.

Owen_S

Exam tomorrow and everything from Sulis to StudentMail is down -_-

iLaura

Owen_S wrote: »

Exam tomorrow and everything from Sulis to StudentMail is down -_-

I don't get why people don't download their notes each time they're uploaded to SULIS. So much handier than searching to find them each time you want them

onethreefive

Anyone have an idea when email will be back working?

Owen_S

iLaura wrote: »

I don't get why people don't download their notes each time they're uploaded to SULIS. So much handier than searching to find them each time you want them

That's like saying why don't people study a week in advance of the test, when Sulis is up and running

jamo2oo9

Owen_S wrote: »

That's like saying why don't people study a week in advance of the test, when Sulis is up and running

Never have I downloaded notes from SULIS before.. It's an online resource website therefore, it is expected that SULIS will remain online 24/7.

iLaura

jamo2oo9 wrote: »

Never have I downloaded notes from SULIS before.. It's an online resource website therefore, it is expected that SULIS will remain online 24/7.

I guess I'm just one of those people who always needs to have notes instantly when I need them. Like I still have 3rd year Junior Cert notes and I'm in 3rd year of college :P

wnolan1992

onethreefive wrote: »

Anyone have an idea when email will be back working?

Probably tomorrow morning at this stage I'd say.

jamo2oo9 wrote: »

Never have I downloaded notes from SULIS before.. It's an online resource website therefore, it is expected that SULIS will remain online 24/7.

Aw, the innocence of the ickle firstie, 'tis adowable!

This is UL IT man, get used to it going down now, and prepare for it to go down during Study Week.

Never rely on any system that is run by UL. Ever.

Ompala

jamo2oo9 wrote: »

Never have I downloaded notes from SULIS before.. It's an online resource website therefore, it is expected that SULIS will remain online 24/7.

Best of luck with that!

Copper_pipe

Have a lab report to be submitted on SULIS by 1pm tomorrow

Aceandstuff

The student mail is really getting on my nerves now. I have a project to do with three other people, and they won't change to Google Docs or anything. Just the student mail. I'm supposed to have a program sent out to them today, but I suppose they can't blame me!

iLaura

Copper_pipe wrote: »

Have a lab report to be submitted on SULIS by 1pm tomorrow

I'd say it'll be back up by 9 or 10 when ITD look at it.

Chris Martin

Relieved to hear you're also having trouble with student mail..
Why doesn't it just say it's down though!
On my phone it told me password entered is old password..
Same pass for 2/3 years!
Tried to access it online and can't get to page..

Also on SULIS topic, I downloaded absolutely everything in constant suspense that one day it just wasn't going to work.. Which happened quite often.
Unfortunately, there seemed to be little you could do in ways of submitting work via SULIS as, like an new teenage couple, wherever one goes, the other follows, so they're often down at the same time, meaning the lecturer, although aware of the issue, has no way to contact students bar lectures, if there is one between submission date and time discovered SULIS/email is down..

Always used to rush through downloading everything, even when I was on SULIS, fully expectant on it to cut out on me mid download...
It's happened before.. :P