Shopping in Northern Ireland

The Guvnor

There is no excuse for lot's of things like why is it cheaper to send a registered letter to the UK from Eire than it is to send one within Ireland!

I only copped this the other day but it's insane!

The cost base for Irish retailers is different but these costs do not account for all the difference. Lack of competition is the real reason.

Richard

jister wrote: »

I can accept that some items, a freezer for example, might be cheaper in the north (but it shouldn't be more than around 15%) but there is no excuse for water made in Limerick being cheaper in Asda.

Maybe tax is a factor. Bushmills whiskey is more expensive in Bushmills than it is in South Africa, apparently.

JohnOwonga

Richard wrote: »

Maybe tax is a factor. Bushmills whiskey is more expensive in Bushmills than it is in South Africa, apparently.

>>>>

The reason here is marketing policy and competitive pressure of other high quality lower priced brands and of course its relative to the average local wages too.

Regards,


John

Morgans

I think most consumers appreciate why prices are different in different countries. Of course, Lenihan even mentioned irish petrol as one of the factors bringing people across the border. While a simple price for price comparison inflates the amount Irish consumers are being ripped-off, it is clear from the response to the northern Ireland challenge by retailers shows that consumers werent getting great value in the ROI previously.

Rather than being in true competition with each other, large retailers were happy to price match more or less and not rock the boat. With most not even to present Irish consumers with an online presence which would facilitate price comparisons.

Those defending the retailers as if they were always doing their best for the irish consumer simply dont have a leg to stand on. Irish people understand the reasons/excuses for larger prices in ROI but greed was/is clearly one of them.

noodler

Morgans wrote: »

I think most consumers appreciate why prices are different in different countries. Of course, Lenihan even mentioned irish petrol as one of the factors bringing people across the border. While a simple price for price comparison inflates the amount Irish consumers are being ripped-off, it is clear from the response to the northern Ireland challenge by retailers shows that consumers werent getting great value in the ROI previously.

Rather than being in true competition with each other, large retailers were happy to price match more or less and not rock the boat. With most not even to present Irish consumers with an online presence which would facilitate price comparisons.

Those defending the retailers as if they were always doing their best for the irish consumer simply dont have a leg to stand on. Irish people understand the reasons/excuses for larger prices in ROI but greed was/is clearly one of them.

We are not defending retailers as such.
Just trying to help avoid the masses making stupid price comparisons on the face of it. I mean I have heard of people ringing say Harvey Normans in Dublin and demanding they match a price in the North or they won't buy it from them. I mean you may as well use the same comparison with a TV that is cheaper in Taiwan.

If a TV is 300 pounds up north and 600e down here then what I and others who know what they are talking about say is that the real price down here should be around the 400-450e mark. Unfortunately people look at the sterling price and think we are somehow entitled to it. We are being ripped off to an extent no doubt just bot by anything like the full price difference.

Morgans

noodler wrote: »

We are not defending retailers as such.
Just trying to help avoid the masses making stupid price comparisons on the face of it. I mean I have heard of people ringing say Harvey Normans in Dublin and demanding they match a price in the North or they won't buy it from them. I mean you may as well use the same comparison with a TV that is cheaper in Taiwan.

If a TV is 300 pounds up north and 600e down here then what I and others who know what they are talking about say is that the real price down here should be around the 400-450e mark. Unfortunately people look at the sterling price and think we are somehow entitled to it. We are being ripped off to an extent no doubt just bot by anything like the full price difference.

While sound in principle, its another argument that doesn't stand much scrutiny. The cost of going to Taiwan and bringing back a TV would make it uneconomic. Why comparing prices with the north is unique is the fact that if you add fuel and time costs you can travel easily to the north of ireland to avail of the better price. Some people in the good old celtic tiger days used do their designer label and wedding dress shopping in the states. Consumers have every right to compare prices and query why it is so much more expensive here. If the TV retailer cant match their price, so be it.

noodler

Because we have to pay workers more? Higher Vat? A much smaller market?
There are a million reasons why you can't realistically expect ROI retailers to match the North completely. Lets lower wages and Vat here first, otherwise, followong what you are aying to its logical conclusion, in the future you will be going North for certain items out of necessity rather tha out of thriftiness.

My Taiwan analogy makes perfect sense, some costs are purely related to the country, not the distance. We have to be clear here, our prices need to reduce but the North will aways be cheaper unless we fancy changing policy, particularly the minimum/average wage.

anotherlostie

I went to ASDA Enniskillen on Friday evening and it was a pleasure to shop there! No queues at the tills, no barging past people at the top of the aisles and fully stocked shelves (apart from the beers section, but they were busy restocking). No more weekend trips for me (but living nearby is a help, I guess).

Morgans

noodler wrote: »

Because we have to pay workers more? Higher Vat? A much smaller market?
There are a million reasons why you can't realistically expect ROI retailers to match the North completely. Lets lower wages and Vat here first, otherwise, followong what you are aying to its logical conclusion, in the future you will be going North for certain items out of necessity rather tha out of thriftiness.

My Taiwan analogy makes perfect sense, some costs are purely related to the country, not the distance. We have to be clear here, our prices need to reduce but the North will aways be cheaper unless we fancy changing policy, particularly the minimum/average wage.

Not really sure what you are getting upset at. I have already made the point that most consumers understand why ROI prices are higher.

Where were the Supervalu deals before the northern ireland phenomenon, where was tesco matching sterling for euro (on clothing only of course) before the northern ireland phenomenon.

You mentioned Harvey Norman in a previous post. Possibly one of the highest profile example of a retailer treating consumers like fools and not being competitive. Again, why no website comparable to harveynorman.com where you can buy online?

Finally, the price of goods in taiwan, chad, botswana or romania does not matter to irish consumers.

They are not a 90 minute drive from Ireland's capital city. And remember, the northern irish phenomenon, and this thread, has been driven by essentially a monthly grocery shop.

The logical conclusion is that retailers in ROI will need to compete to such a level that Irish consumer dont give up a full day out of their weekend to shop. When people were told to shop around it was expected that lidl or aldi would benefit, but they obviously didnt cater for many irish consumers needs.

But of course, they are completely strapped to the bone at the moment, and If the irish continue to the shop in the north, there will eventually come a time when no-one will sell food and other necessities in ROI. Nonsense.

muffler

A lot of you are derailing this thread with comments that would be more suited in the Politics, Consumer Affairs or the Rip Off Ireland forums.

Stick to the bargains please.

GrandSlam2009

The fact is there is a sizeable difference in prices between North and South and regardless of the reasons its one that I, like many others I’m sure cannot afford to ignore at the moment. I reluctantly make the journey to Newry ( I hate the hassle ) every three weeks or so and because of making the trip I end up with more Euros in my pocket which is a good thing as far as I am concerned. But the reason why I registered today and posted is that I received an email from a colleague yesterday advising me of a website Smartsavers.ie I had a look at it and think I will give them a try if only just to take out the hassle of having to travel, so I thought that there might be more of you out there who like me could do without the hassle or are just too far away to travel.
There is one thing that is common between North and South that you cannot put a price on and that is the ultimate satisfaction and relief following yesterdays fantastic Six Nations Grand Slam Victory.
C’mon Ireland.

Esel

GrandSlam2009, stick to the standard text colour, please - your entire post is invisible to anyone using the Cloud (and possibly other) skin.

Zynks

noodler wrote: »

If a TV is 300 pounds up north and 600e down here then what I and others who know what they are talking about say is that the real price down here should be around the 400-450e mark. Unfortunately people look at the sterling price and think we are somehow entitled to it. We are being ripped off to an extent no doubt just bot by anything like the full price difference.

If a TV is £300 up north, the retailer is making maybe £60 margin (20%). At €450 in Ireland if the retailer is buying from the manufacturer at a similar price, the margin would be around 40%. The margin is the retailers income. Do Irish retailers need to make twice as much on each item?

Of course, if the sale price is €600, then the margin is around 80%, and that certainly is greed.

noodler

Zynks wrote: »

If a TV is £300 up north, the retailer is making maybe £60 margin (20%). At €450 in Ireland if the retailer is buying from the manufacturer at a similar price, the margin would be around 40%. The margin is the retailers income. Do Irish retailers need to make twice as much on each item?

Of course, if the sale price is €600, then the margin is around 80%, and that certainly is greed.

Sigh, wages, costs, rents, VAT, not necessarily the same retailer. Put it this way, you are a nice successful multi-million pound company operating in the UK. Its a bit of a pain operating in NI because of its location and smaller market but it is in the same country so they have to charge the same price as mainland Britain.

Now, for them to bother setting up in the Republic, with its far smaller market, higher wages, Vat and costs the company will have to charge a higher price to make the same amount of profit in most instances.

We can't be exactly as cheap as the UK if we maintain our other costs and wages at the same level. Even if we weren't being ripped off at all, our prices should still be higher.

jimmycrackcorm

Zynks wrote: »

If a TV is £300 up north, the retailer is making maybe £60 margin (20%). At €450 in Ireland if the retailer is buying from the manufacturer at a similar price, the margin would be around 40%. The margin is the retailers income. Do Irish retailers need to make twice as much on each item?

Of course, if the sale price is €600, then the margin is around 80%, and that certainly is greed.

In fact often the reverse is true and retailers here may have a lower margin. Anecdotal evidence suggests that where retailers try to source cheaper suppliers in the north, view are told to use the dearer southern suppliers only.

Cathmandooo

For weeks now I've been trying to buy a reasonably priced tv unit and a large bookcase for my sitting room. Have picked out a few nices ones in Woodies, Atlantic (even ordered online with atlantic), looked in Argos too. Nothing we picked has been in stock, I have never been given a date to when it will be in stock and no staff member seems to bothered about keeping my custom.

A trip to Ikea up north is my only option at this stage and I've picked out some nice furniture at a reasonable price up there. Now to get a van, time and I'm away!

tregan

hi there,

want to try asda instead of sainsburys in the quays for my next grocery shop and looking at asda store locations and looks like kilkeel would be the nearest to me - i'm in north co. dublin. does anybody know what this store is like i.e. big / small or would i be better going to another branch ?

thanks for responses

Our man in Havana

Kilteel ASDA is like a corner shop when compared to Sainsburys etc.

mailburner

tregan wrote: »

hi there,

want to try asda instead of sainsburys in the quays for my next grocery shop and looking at asda store locations and looks like kilkeel would be the nearest to me - i'm in north co. dublin. does anybody know what this store is like i.e. big / small or would i be better going to another branch ?

thanks for responses

Asda eniskillen is big
way cheaper than sainsburys also

alastair

mailburner wrote: »

Asda eniskillen is big
way cheaper than sainsburys also

Didn't notice such a huge difference in prices between Asda in Belfast and Sainsburys in Sprucefield. Might well have just been the specific items I was comparing though.

gonker

Cathooo wrote: »

For weeks now I've been trying to buy a reasonably priced tv unit and a large bookcase for my sitting room. Have picked out a few nices ones in Woodies, Atlantic (even ordered online with atlantic), looked in Argos too. Nothing we picked has been in stock, I have never been given a date to when it will be in stock and no staff member seems to bothered about keeping my custom.

A trip to Ikea up north is my only option at this stage and I've picked out some nice furniture at a reasonable price up there. Now to get a van, time and I'm away!

Make sure you phone Ikea to check stock before you go. Do not use the online checker as it is unreliable.

paulusdu

About Asda and Sainsburys, i lived in the UK for a few years, and my experiance was that ASDA was cheaper than sainsburys on branded items, but as to the stores own brands, the Sainsburys ones are much better quality.
Lisburn is a great hassle free spot for a large sainsburys if you are heading from North County Dublin, no more than 25 mins further up the road from Newry, and you will save time at certain times when you take queing into Newry (down the hill, i fee sorry for the locals there on saturday mornings) and queing at the tills in newry into account.
Asda though, usually does a lot more offers than sainsburys, especially on crates of beer around easter, christmas, summer, etc Its well worth a visit if you are heading up that way.

tregan

thanks for the replies peeps

but now i don't know where to head. was all set for downpatrick asda and there's an argos there too where i was going to pick up a clock for my DD1 which is meant to help keep them in bed in the mornings because i'll try anything at this stage not to be awake at 6.19!!

but then there is an argos in lisburn too .... was heading for asda as thought it was cheaper than sainsbury but i don't mind buying shops own brand which i do a bit of anyway and alcohol isn't my reason to go up to tell you the truth

think i might reserve the clock in lisburn too and then i have the choice in the morning, won't have time for loggin on in the morning

ta ra and it's off to bed i go once i do that!

milly4ever

tregan wrote: »

thanks for the replies peeps

but now i don't know where to head. was all set for downpatrick asda and there's an argos there too where i was going to pick up a clock for my DD1 which is meant to help keep them in bed in the mornings because i'll try anything at this stage not to be awake at 6.19!!

but then there is an argos in lisburn too .... was heading for asda as thought it was cheaper than sainsbury but i don't mind buying shops own brand which i do a bit of anyway and alcohol isn't my reason to go up to tell you the truth

think i might reserve the clock in lisburn too and then i have the choice in the morning, won't have time for loggin on in the morning

ta ra and it's off to bed i go once i do that!

Downpatrick asda is much better than westwood belfast, drove up from dublin there on saturday, quite a few southern reg cars there!

corny

noodler wrote: »

Sigh, wages, costs, rents, VAT, not necessarily the same retailer. Put it this way, you are a nice successful multi-million pound company operating in the UK. Its a bit of a pain operating in NI because of its location and smaller market but it is in the same country so they have to charge the same price as mainland Britain.

Now, for them to bother setting up in the Republic, with its far smaller market, higher wages, Vat and costs the company will have to charge a higher price to make the same amount of profit in most instances.

We can't be exactly as cheap as the UK if we maintain our other costs and wages at the same level. Even if we weren't being ripped off at all, our prices should still be higher.

The ESRI calculated the exact difference you talk of. It should be 6-7% more expensive in the Republic. In reality nothing even approaches that. Honestly nothing. The only logical conclusion is that retailers in the Republic have a much higher profit margins.

You explain the problems UK retailers have. Why do Dunnes charge such radically different prices North and South then, assuming 7% difference is correct? It can't be set up charge or small market because Newry Dunnes do way more business than my local Dunnes.

Its not just the retailers either. You can be guaranteed if you have to pay for something in the Republic, its overpriced.

noodler

The ESRI, like any institution using statistical software, isn't working from all the data.

They didn't calculate it, they estimated it. A good estimate, but an estimate nevertheless.

Anyway, for any economics paper saying one thing there are 10 others saying something different.

Why do Dunnes have cheaper prices up North? Do I have to repeat it again? Higher VAT, wages, rents, smaller market etc etc.

Again, nowhere did I say we aren't being ripped off, but not to the extent of the difference in face prices.

Morgans

Noodler. You said earlier that you werent defending retailers. I think we can dismiss that idea as nonsense now. You are doing nothing but defend them. While different economists will come up with different results, the ERSI is an independent body with no axe to grind, and one of the main think-tanks used by the irish govt (FWIW) The question is not why prices in the ROI are dearer than in the North - my first contribution here argued that people understood that - but why prices in the ROI are vastly more than the 6-7% that the ERSI suggest they should be. Of course, if the multiples broke down their profits by country and region all would be clear. I wonder why they wont.

We all have these stories, but I'll give a good example of the differential. I was looking for a coffee machine as a present for my parents this time last year. Checked Debenhams.co.uk (£140 or approx €160 at the time) - they understandably i suppose, wouldnt deliver to Dublin but could deliver to Newry where I could collect it from their store. Decided to check Debenhams in Henry St for the same machine on the same day (€279). So, again you can defend the approx 75% price increase on VAT, wages, rents etc in dublin, or you can face up to the reality that you are defending the greed of retailers, which Irish consumers are now thankfully voting with their feet against.

mickoneill30

Morgans wrote: »

but why prices in the ROI are vastly more than the 6-7% that the ERSI suggest they should be.

The VAT difference takes up most of the ERSI difference. I don't see how the higher rents, smaller market, higher wages can fit into the remaining half percent. Or do they say 6 - 7% after you account for VAT?

With that said though it is still too pricey down here. Any time I've gone up north it was to save 30% to 40%.

amacachi

noodler wrote: »

Why do Dunnes have cheaper prices up North? Do I have to repeat it again? Higher VAT, wages, rents, smaller market etc etc.

The Republic of Ireland is a smaller marker than Northern Ireland?

Morgans

mickoneill30 wrote: »

The VAT difference takes up most of the ERSI difference. I don't see how the higher rents, smaller market, higher wages can fit into the remaining half percent. Or do they say 6 - 7% after you account for VAT?

With that said though it is still too pricey down here. Any time I've gone up north it was to save 30% to 40%.

Pretty sure that that report was done before the latest VAT increase in ROI and temporary decrease in the North. Something Minister Lenihan has said has added to the cross-border throng.