Motorway redesignation Phase #2 released

Lennoxschips

What a shameful waste. Especially considering we had 50 years worth of international motorway networks to look at first. And yet we are still churning out the same half-baked, under-spec ideas that will need revisiting sooner rather than later.

50 years of failed car-based development in the USA and what do we do? We look at the USA and do exactly what they did.

The M50 in its original inception would have done the job if the country hadn't sold its soul to property developers and landowners.

BluntGuy

D.L.R. wrote: »

How can anyone in their right mind say the NRA/transport dept have done a good job, when they are the ones responsible for the ongoing fiasco that is the M50?

The choices made here have cost Ireland millions of euro in unnecessary rebuilding and disruption. This money could have had projects like Newlands or the M20 or the Interconnector under construction NOW, if it wasn't already squandered on the first ridiculous M50 dual carriageway.

What a shameful waste, especially considering we had 50 years worth of international motorway networks to look at first. And yet we are still churning out the same half-baked, under-spec ideas that will need revisiting sooner rather than later.

For a nation that was poor since its foundation until recently, you'd think our politicians would have a better sense of value for money. The one thing the NRA do well is build motorways through countryside. Now, how challenging is that exactly in a mildly undulating landscape, given the necessary funding? No, they have been found wanting where it really counts at the pinch points around the urban areas. Total lack of invention or vision. Bring in the Germans.

Yes, and it really is a shame. We will be leaving possibly the biggest period of road-building in our history very soon. There was such an oppurtunity for innovation on major junctions and other projects. What did we get (or will we be getting) instead...

The N24/M25/M9 junction... roundabout.
The M7/M18/M17 junction... roundabout.
The M7/M50 junction... roundabout.
The M20/M22 junction... roundabout.
The M8/M22* junction... roundabout.
The N8/N25 junction... roundabout.
The M7/M8 junction... half-assed free-flow.
The M7/M9 junction... half-assed free-flow.
The M4/M6 junction... half-assed free-flow.
The M1/M50 junction... half-assed free-flow and roundabout.


Coming Soon:

The M7/M9/DOOR... roundabout.
The M1/DOOR... half-assed free-flow
The M4/DOOR... ???
The M3/DOOR... ???


* This deserves special mention because the chosen design is so mind-boggingly awful it defies belief. This junction will be between junctions 18 and 19 on the N8 (or M8), and if you ever have the misfortune of seeing the plans for it, well... don't say you weren't warned.

invincibleirish

BluntGuy wrote: »

* This deserves special mention because the chosen design is so mind-boggingly awful it defies belief. This junction will be between junctions 18 and 19 on the N8 (or M8), and if you ever have the misfortune of seeing the plans for it, well... don't say you weren't warned.

In fairness the proposed M8/N22 roundabout is certainly a relic of old plans but is unlikely to happen, not because its a bad design but because The proposed N22 (NRR) is so far away from even being considered being built. At least 10 years easily before it becomes a priority.

BluntGuy

invincibleirish wrote: »

In fairness the proposed M8/N22 roundabout is certainly a relic of old plans but is unlikely to happen, not because its a bad design but because The proposed N22 (NRR) is so far away from even being considered being built. At least 10 years easily before it becomes a priority.

I know the M22 is not going to be built any time soon...

Hopefully that'll give them enough time to re-think the design, because I honestly could not believe it when I saw how dreadful it was. The M9/M25/N24 one looks like gold in comparison.

As for the M20/M8 one, I'm hoping they'll reconsider and make it free-flow. We honestly don't want another M50 around Cork. The Mahon Point and Dunkettle are bad enough, we don't want to add yet more bad junctions into the mix (well in the case of M.P it isn't necessarily a bad junction, but bad planning).

Anyway, the main point is... none of our motorways link together in a satisfactory manner. We're pretty much all in unanimous agreement about that. It's all well and good having a motorway network that's great in terms of destination and linear length, but when none of it is integrated properly, what's the point? IMO, every motorway in the country should be connected to the network, I hate isolated chunks of motorway.

Chris_533976

From the pics Ive seen, add M20/M21 to the 'half assed free-flow' list

D'Peoples Voice

D.L.R. wrote: »

How can anyone in their right mind say the NRA/transport dept have done a good job, when they are the ones responsible for the ongoing fiasco that is the M50?

The choices made here have cost Ireland millions of euro in unnecessary rebuilding and disruption. This money could have had projects like Newlands or the M20 or the Interconnector under construction NOW, if it wasn't already squandered on the first ridiculous M50 dual carriageway.

I thought that the NRA was only established in the lifetime of the FF/LAb of the early nineties by Brendan Howlin?
the M50 was built in the period 1985-87, No?

Thats doesn't mean that I agree they did a good job, I'm just trying to ensure that we don't pass the blame from the Department of Transport( of whatever it was in the 80s) to the NRA, and let the civil service off the blame!

L1011

The M50 was opened from 1990 to 2006, not 1985... excluding the redesignated ex-M1 sections of course.

AugustusMaximus

Any word on these redesignations being confirmed.

The date to appeal against these redesignations has now passed.

BluntGuy

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Any word on these redesignations being confirmed.

The date to appeal against these redesignations has now passed.

I would give it until January until we hear anything concrete on this.

Amtmann

BluntGuy, did you say that (covered) 120 speed signs have been erected from Dunkettle to Watergrasshill? Have to say, I think that's a bad idea for the bit between Dunkettle and Glanmire -- it's too steep and twisty, not to mention the small matter of the at grade slip road leading to Glanmire off the northbound carriageway.

BluntGuy

Furet wrote: »

BluntGuy, did you say that (covered) 120 speed signs have been erected from Dunkettle to Watergrasshill? Have to say, I think that's a bad idea for the bit between Dunkettle and Glanmire -- it's too steep and twisty, not to mention the small matter of the at grade slip road leading to Glanmire off the northbound carriageway.

Yes, those signs have been erected. I have seen them...

They should've really waited for the motorway redesignation.

Btw, let's just look at the situation...

1st Tranche -
Closing Date For Submissions: March 2008
S.I Passed: July 2008 (There was some faffing about inbetween due to those who just had to make a complaint and slow the whole thing down)
S.I Came Into Effect: September 2008

2nd Tranche -
Closing Date For Submissions: November 2008
S.I Passed: I would guess March or April. But it could be January as the NRA promised to do it quicker this time around. The problem is, there is a lot more scope for complaining, so I wouldn't be surprised if it takes longer.
S.I Comes Into Effect: July or August.

AugustusMaximus

Furet, they have errected 100kph signs going South just past the Glanmire exit,

I seriously doubt Glanmire to Dunkettle will be 120kph. Why would they put up new 100kph signs otherwise ?

BluntGuy

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Furet, they have errected 100kph signs going South just past the Glanmire exit,

I seriously doubt Glanmire to Dunkettle will be 120kph. Why would they put up new 100kph signs otherwise ?

Yes. But I'm sure heading up towards Dunkettle on the Watergrasshill bypass, I saw 120 signs covered up... maybe it's just my imagination. I'll look into this.

AugustusMaximus

Where roughly was that Bluntguy ?

I'll be passing tomorrow.

They put a 60kph limit on the Dunkettle Interchange itself and placed 100kph signs about 50m north of the Dunkettle Interchange too. All done in the last few days.

BluntGuy

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Where roughly was that Bluntguy ?

I'll be passing tomorrow.

They put a 60kph limit on the Dunkettle Interchange itself and placed 100kph signs about 50m north of the Dunkettle Interchange too. All done in the last few days.

Just after the Fermoy bypass heading towards Watergrasshill... perhaps it was only my imagination. I'm sure I saw a speed limit sign covered in black plastic there...

Also, the Dunkettle Interchange speed limit signs are probably to do with the fact that there have been some speed limit increases on the SRR and Ballincollig Bypass.

E92

I came back from Dublin today after being at Top Gear Live and it was *definitely* 100 km/h after the Fermoy bypass all the way up to the Dunkettle roundabout. Oh and as noted the speed limit is now 60 at the Dunkettle roundabout (previously it was 100 km/h). Believe me if it had changed I'd have noticed.

I don't recall seeing covered up speed limit signs in either going up or down, but it was dark going up and going down, so I may well be wrong on that one.

Anyone think the M8 Cashel to Mitchelstown is a shade bumpy btw? I would also like to see the return of the wider 12 ft(3.65 m) lanes, those 3.5 m lanes are just a bit too narrow realistically.

Oh and the Naas Dual Carriageway is a bloody nightmare with all the bloody lane hoggers in the middle lane who ignorantly stayed in this lane even though there was hardly any traffic in the left hand lane drove me bananas:mad:.

If the Government needs money, then I suggest they fine all the people deliberately breaking the law on this road. They'd make tens of thousands by the hour!

BluntGuy

E92 wrote: »

I came back from Dublin today and it was *definitely* 100 km/h after the Fermoy bypass all the way up to the Dunkettle roundabout. Oh and as noted the speed limit is now 60 at the Dunkettle roundabout (previously it was 100 km/h).

Thanks.

I must've been hallucinating...

BluntGuy

E92 wrote: »

Anyone think the M8 Cashel to Mitchelstown is a shade bumpy btw? I would also like to see the return of the wider 12 ft(3.65 m) lanes, those 3.5 m lanes are just a bit too narrow realistically.

I don't mind the "narrow lines'. 15 cm (the length of a small ruler), isn't really all that much of a difference. The lanes are nice and wide IMO.

The stretch is a bit bumpy, no-where near as flat as the Fermoy bypass, and there are more curves. But nothing that isn't apt for 120 km/h...

However, there is an astonishing lack of lighting on the road. The cateyes all work well, but there isn't enough lighting at junctions and there should be reflectors on the central median. The Carlow bypass has reflectors on the median, why doesn't this. It makes it hard to make out bends at night...

dowlingm

that's the good thing about most Irish roads - catseyes and reflectors. You'd be in fear of your life driving on Ontario roads with low visibility, even 400 series highways, because they have neither and the lane markings are often impossible to make out in rainfall so you don't have the bumpy reminder if you're straying out of lane.

Lennoxschips

those 3.5 m lanes are just a bit too narrow realistically.

3.5 is the standard used all over continental Europe, with the exception of Germany of course, what with their lack of speed limit.

jd

http://www.wicklownews.ie/2008/11/18/toll-for-n11/

Councillors seem pretty determined not to have it zoned a motorway. They wouldn't have carte blanche to rezone adjacent to the n11 and its junctions.

Toll for N11?

National Roads Authority (NRA) plans to upgrade sections of the N11 to a motorway have sparked fears toll booths maybe on the way.
Wicklow County Councillor Jimmy O’Shaughnessy said the roads body had “another motive” when it came to making sections of the road a motorway.
“I think that if this (the plans) is allowed to happen we will soon see it being made a toll road,” he said in a statement. “The national Roads Authority is not seeking to have this road made into a motorway for nothing.
...
Cllr O’Shaughnessy said the plans would have a devastating effect on farmers and people with motorbikes under 50cc under current motorway restrictions.
“It would also affect farmers, as agricultural vehicles are not allowed on motorways,” he stated. “This means they will be forced to travel through Arklow town and possibly Wicklow town, and places like Ashford and Rathnew.
“This will add to the further congestion in these towns and villages.”

Amtmann

BluntGuy was right: the speed limit has been raised to 120km/h from Watergrasshill to Glanmire on the N8 dual carriagway. The limit remains 100 from there to Dunkettle, though.

BluntGuy

National Roads Authority (NRA) plans to upgrade sections of the N11 to a motorway have sparked fears toll booths maybe on the way.

*Sigh*

They really are trying everything to oppose this.

I'm glad the time given to lodge complaints/appeals/submissions for this project was so short.

The stretch is being upgraded for safety reasons. Do these councillors really think it's safe to have tractors/cyclicts/pedestrians on these DCs?

The councillors seem to believe that the real reason for the upgrade is to shove a toll on it? Well, councillors, here's a question for you:

What's your REAL reason for continously opposing this move?

Alun

“It would also affect farmers, as agricultural vehicles are not allowed on motorways,” he stated. “This means they will be forced to travel through Arklow town and possibly Wicklow town, and places like Ashford and Rathnew.
“This will add to the further congestion in these towns and villages.”

Congestion in Ashford and Rathnew? Those places are like ghost towns now the N11 has bypassed them.

L1011

Gombeenism at its finest -"My constituents have the right to drive their hairdryers-on-wheels and tractors at 40k/mh on roads with a design speed of over 160km/h BECAUSE THEY ALWAYS HAVE"

Amtmann

Alun wrote: »

Congestion in Ashford and Rathnew? Those places are like ghost towns now the N11 has bypassed them.

How do people like this 'councillor' get elected. Happily, the NRA will be able to dismiss such feeble objections easily.

Stark

No doubt by spreading FUD such as the "toll bridge" nonsense above to get their electorate riled up.

BluntGuy

MYOB wrote: »

Gombeenism at its finest -"My constituents have the right to drive their hairdryers-on-wheels and tractors at 40k/mh on roads with a design speed of over 160km/h BECAUSE THEY ALWAYS HAVE"

Thank you.

It's ridiculous. The road should have been motorway from the start, let alone now.

A rubbish reason to oppose the move.

"Oh, they shouldn't go ahead with this because, because they might place a toll on it, despite the fact there's absolutely no evidence to back this up this ludicrous claim."

If the NRA wanted to toll the road, they would've done it whether the road was motorway or not. The road doesn't have to be motorway in order to toll it (think Eastlink Toll Bridge, think N25 Toll Bridge (though I'm hoping that becomes M)).

Using their logic, one would have to assume that all redesignated stretches will incur tolls. A notion, we can all agree, that is equally as ridiculous as their unfounded claims.

ardmacha

You'd be in fear of your life driving on Ontario roads with low visibility, even 400 series highways, because they have neither and the lane markings are often impossible to make out in rainfall so you don't have the bumpy reminder if you're straying out of lane.

Mind you they could do with more cat's eyes here and some maintenance of the ones they have! I know Ontario is supposed not to use them because of snow clearance, but how come New York State doesn't have this problem?

AugustusMaximus

Furet wrote: »

BluntGuy was right: the speed limit has been raised to 120km/h from Watergrasshill to Glanmire on the N8 dual carriagway. The limit remains 100 from there to Dunkettle, though.

Excellent news.