Motorway redesignation Phase #2 released

cherrypicker555

BluntGuy wrote: »

That's correct. The Republic's motorways ARE 75 mph dual carriageways just as England/NI's motorways ARE 70 mph dual carriageways.

We could use more service stations and better lighting in places, but after that our motorways are more-or-less identical to those in the UK.

UK motorways mostly have 6 lanes.


And no where near UK motorway standard in terms of electronic signage, contdown markers, underground heating, crash deflectors, colour coded cats eyes, lighting and other safty features, which make UK motorways the safest.

BluntGuy

I think that most of the Republic's new motorways are of a very high standard.

They have safe (although ugly, I must admit) concrete safety barriors, which older UK motorways have only begun to install.

As far as I remember the M7 has colour-coded cats-eyes as well.

The number of lanes doesn't matter. The UK has a smaller-number of larger trunk motorways. To build all of our motorways with six lanes would've been wasteful. Two lanes in each direction suffices (as it does in many parts of France and most of the German autobahn network).

I agree that we need service areas, but the NRA is launching three pilot schemes, from which many new service areas should follow.

And why do you have to keep referring to our roads as "motorways". Are you suggesting that they aren't actually motorways? Our motorways are no worse than Britains except for the lack of service stations and less provision of lighting. But our roads are newer and therefore have nicer surfaces, have better advanced directional signage (cantilevers) and have the safer concrete barriors.

BluntGuy

cherrypicker555 wrote: »

UK motorways mostly have 6 lanes.


And no where near UK motorway standard in terms of electronic signage, contdown markers, underground heating, crash deflectors, colour coded cats eyes, lighting and other safty features, which make UK motorways the safest.

Number of lanes doesn't matter. A motorway is still a dual-carriageway.

Our M1 has Electronic Signage, with similar schemes to be rolled out on other motorways. And as far as I remember, we have countdown markers for every junction.

I think I've already replied to the rest of this in my above post anyway...

cherrypicker555

BluntGuy wrote: »

I think that most of the Republic's new motorways are of a very high standard.

They have safe (although ugly, I must admit) concrete safety barriors, which older UK motorways have only begun to install.

As far as I remember the M7 has colour-coded cats-eyes as well.

The number of lanes doesn't matter. The UK has a smaller-number of larger trunk motorways. To build all of our motorways with six lanes would've been wasteful. Two lanes in each direction suffices (as it does in many parts of France and most of the German autobahn network).

I agree that we need service areas, but the NRA is launching three pilot schemes, from which many new service areas should follow.

And why do you have to keep referring to our roads as "motorways". Are you suggesting that they aren't actually motorways? Our motorways are no worse than Britains except for the lack of service stations and less provision of lighting. But our roads are newer and therefore have nicer surfaces, have better advanced directional signage (cantilevers) and have the safer concrete barriors.

Red and and blue colour coded cats eyes are not used in the rep, only white, yellow and green cats eyes and road side batons are.

Steel barriers are the norm in the UK, they meet ES1317 test standards, most motorways in the rep have cable, which take limbs of motorcyclists.

AugustusMaximus

cherrypicker.

You're insistence that 6 lane motorways are somehow better than 4 lane motorways proves to me you don't know what you are talking about. That or you are just trying to wind people up.

One has more capacity than the other. Nothing more, nothing less.

If anything, 6 lane motorways allow drivers to cross two lanes of traffic in one go, something you can't do on a 4 lane motorway.

marmurr1916

cherrypicker555 wrote: »

Steel barriers are the norm in the UK, they meet ES1317 test standards, most motorways in the rep have cable, which take limbs of motorcyclists.

Not true. Most motorways in the Republic have concrete barriers. All the newly opened sections have them and all sections under construction will have them.


By the time the network is complete, most motorways will have concrete barriers.

I don't know why you're getting so worked up about the differences between UK and Irish motorways.

They're only roads for God's sake.

mysterious

BluntGuy wrote: »

I'm so sorry mysterious, maybe I should've been clearer. I should have said 13km of the M8 and the section from the M8/M7 interchange to portlaoise. Although maybe that would be an awquard set-up.

Of course, what I actually meant would've been clear to anybody with even a modicum of intelligence.

no it wasn't clear, You said only the M8 section. That would mean the 13km of M8 would go nowhere.

Maybe it's you who should think twice before you post such an embarassing response. You could've just told me nice 'n' easy, but you had to add in the over-the-top nonsensical sarcasm in the hope that somebody would find it funny.

Oh get over it.

Hint: Nobody did.[/quote]

You don't speak for anyone else:rolleyes: I didnt plan, on hoping it would be funny. I was more shocked and less bothered to try correct you to be honest.

But on topic of the post. The M7 would prolly finish before the latter half. Since the M8 has to flyover the M7, and is slightly a longer fork than the M7 branch at Borris in ossary. Going by what I seen passing by on the N7. The Borris in ossary seems to be advancing much quicker than the Portlaoise end.

I'm not to sure about the the Cullahill end.

cherrypicker555

BluntGuy wrote: »

Number of lanes doesn't matter. A motorway is still a dual-carriageway.

Our M1 has Electronic Signage, with similar schemes to be rolled out on other motorways. And as far as I remember, we have countdown markers for every junction.

I think I've already replied to the rest of this in my above post anyway...

Coundown markers are placed at the wrong distances in the rep, at 600, 400 and 200 m points, too close to junctions at 75 mph and in the outside lane and needing to come off, esp in poor visibility, heavy traffic etc. Same with some road signage.


They should be at 1km, 800m and 400m, if coming off at a junction you should signal at the point of the first count down marker.

cherrypicker555

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Not true. Most motorways in the Republic have concrete barriers. All the newly opened sections have them and all sections under construction will have them.


By the time the network is complete, most motorways will have concrete barriers.

I don't know why you're getting so worked up about the differences between UK and Irish motorways.

They're only roads for God's sake.

I drive on alot of motorways in the rep, its mostly cable.

BluntGuy

Yes... most of the older (wide-median) motorways have cable. But by the time the network is complete, the majority will have concrete barriors.

marmurr1916

cherrypicker555 wrote: »

I drive on alot of motorways in the rep, its mostly cable.

At present.

As I've pointed out, the newer sections (for example, the M8) and sections under construction will have concrete barriers.


By the time the entire network is complete, most motorways will have concrete barriers.

cherrypicker555

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

cherrypicker.

You're insistence that 6 lane motorways are somehow better than 4 lane motorways proves to me you don't know what you are talking about. That or you are just trying to wind people up.

One has more capacity than the other. Nothing more, nothing less.

If anything, 6 lane motorways allow drivers to cross two lanes of traffic in one go, something you can't do on a 4 lane motorway.

I am a road safety expert, crossing two lanes at once is prohibited.

BluntGuy

cherrypicker555 wrote: »

I am a road safety expert, crossing two lanes at once is prohibited.

Somebody tell that to the drivers on the M50. The amount of times I've seen people deciding to jump across lanes (once from the auxillary right into the inner lane), is staggering.

AugustusMaximus

cherrypicker555 wrote: »

I am a road safety expert, crossing two lanes at once is prohibited.

If you are one, explain why you keep highlighting the pros of 6 lane motorways over 4.

I never said switching 2 lanes at once wasn't illegal. Doesn't stop people from doing it.

cherrypicker555

BluntGuy wrote: »

Somebody tell that to the drivers on the M50. The amount of times I've seen people deciding to jump across lanes (once from the auxillary right into the inner lane), is staggering.

But yet 6 lane UK motorways have a better safety record then the Republics 4 lane new ones, and are much busier,how do you explain that ?

Considering L drivers are prohibited from driving on both.

cherrypicker555

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

If you are one, explain why you keep highlighting the pros of 6 lane motorways over 4.

I never said switching 2 lanes at once wasn't illegal. Doesn't stop people from doing it.

Obviously more capacity is desirable.

I highlighted the main safety differences between motorways in the UK and rep.I never said 6 lanes was safer by being 6 lanes.

mysterious

Irish motorways are in fact different to the Uk's model

regardless of how many lanes. UK have lane widths of 3.75m
Ireland lane widths are 3.5m (european standard)

This would also explain why Uks motorway could be deemed safer. Not to mention the fact the alot of Irish people still don't know how to drive on motorways.

It's still really appalling here. No matter what the spec of the motorways are. Blunt our motorways are ok, there is nothing special about them.

Irish and Proud

mysterious wrote: »

Irish motorways are in fact different to the Uk's model

regardless of how many lanes. UK have lane widths of 3.75m
Ireland lane widths are 3.5m (european standard)

UK lane widths: 3.65m (= 12' afaik)

Irish lane widths...

Wide Motorway: 3.75m (M1, M4 etc)
Standard M'way: 3.50m (M6, M8 etc)

Regards!

BluntGuy

Well either way...

The main point here is that there is no major difference in safety between 6-lane and 4-lane motorways based purely on the number of lanes.

We simply use 4-lane motorway (AADT - 50,000) because that is enough capacity for us. That said, I would've prefered wide median for some of our new road-building schemes to allow for upgrade to three-lanes in each direction.

Extra capacity is desirable, but it is unneeded. Six-lane stretches are only needed near the terminal cities of these motorways.

I guess if you come from the UK, it may take a while to get used to there being only two lanes in each direction.

AugustusMaximus

BluntGuy wrote: »

Well either way...

The main point here is that there is no major difference in safety between 6-lane and 4-lane motorways based purely on the number of lanes.

We simply use 4-lane motorway (AADT - 50,000) because that is enough capacity for us. That said, I would've prefered wide median for some of our new road-building schemes to allow for upgrade to three-lanes in each direction.

Extra capacity is desirable, but it is unneeded. Six-lane stretches are only needed near the terminal cities of these motorways.

I guess if you come from the UK, it may take a while to get used to there being only two lanes in each direction.

Considering that the M1 and M6 are the only motorways going North-South in the UK, you'd expect them to be 6 lanes plus ?

Wasn't someone here banging on about the problems the UK face due to having minor motorways feeding onto major ones instead of a grid style system as used in Germany ?

BluntGuy

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Considering that the M1 and M6 are the only motorways going North-South in the UK, you'd expect them to be 6 lanes plus ?

Wasn't someone here banging on about the problems the UK face due to having minor motorways feeding onto major ones instead of a grid style system as used in Germany ?

I am all for a wide network of D2Ms rather than a smaller network of D3Ms. I think it's much more effective and I'm glad it's the approach we took.

But, in some places, even in Ireland, traffic volume will demand that D3M is used (albeit for short stretches). A good example is N2 Ashborne bypass. That was a well-thought out scheme. 2.4 km of D3M near the busy terminus at the M50 and the 13 km of D2M. Brilliant stuff. Not over-done, not under-done, just about right.

Still, I'd hate it if we ever had to go to the ridiculousness of upgrading of motorways to four or five lanes. Luckily with our system, I doubt that'll ever happen.

AugustusMaximus

BluntGuy wrote: »

I am all for a wide network of D2Ms rather than a smaller network of D3Ms. I think it's much more effective and I'm glad it's the approach we took.

But, in some places, even in Ireland, traffic volume will demand that D3M is used (albeit for short stretches). A good example is N2 Ashborne bypass. That was a well-thought out scheme. 2.4 km of D3M near the busy terminus at the M50 and the 13 km of D2M. Brilliant stuff. Not over-done, not under-done, just about right.

Still, I'd hate it if we ever had to go to the ridiculousness of upgrading of motorways to four or five lanes. Luckily with our system, I doubt that'll ever happen.

As a general rule of thumb, are all motorways being built close to cities with a wide median, to make upgrading easier ?

THere's certainly no need for D3M mid inter urban route.

BluntGuy

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

As a general rule of thumb, are all motorways being built close to cities with a wide median, to make upgrading easier ?

THere's certainly no need for D3M mid inter urban route.

Yes. I totally agree.

Perhaps I should have been more clear when I said *some* areas.

The M6, though I doubt it will ever be amazingly busy, should have a wide median design near Galway, just in case.

There's no point making the M9 wide-median in any parts. I would've suggested near Grannagh, but the design of the interchange would nullify any potential benefits greatly.

I'd like the M8 2 km from Dunkettle upgraded to D3M some day in the future, as there are often delays there (although that's probably more to do with the junction design admittedly).

I'd like some redudancy capacity built into the M25 Waterford bridge. Considering the traffic volumes (40,000 AADT at peak times over the old bridge) nearby, it certainally would not be foolish to make provision for a potential third lane (like the Boyne Bridge).

cherrypicker555

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

Considering that the M1 and M6 are the only motorways going North-South in the UK, you'd expect them to be 6 lanes plus ?

Wasn't someone here banging on about the problems the UK face due to having minor motorways feeding onto major ones instead of a grid style system as used in Germany ?

The M40, M11, M5, M45, M18, M61 also head north-south, most minor UK motorways are also 6 lanes.

The UK is a different shape to Germany hence arterial rather then grid, problem is its the third most crowded place on Earth.

cherrypicker555

BluntGuy wrote: »

Well either way...

The main point here is that there is no major difference in safety between 6-lane and 4-lane motorways based purely on the number of lanes.

We simply use 4-lane motorway (AADT - 50,000) because that is enough capacity for us. That said, I would've prefered wide median for some of our new road-building schemes to allow for upgrade to three-lanes in each direction.

Extra capacity is desirable, but it is unneeded. Six-lane stretches are only needed near the terminal cities of these motorways.

I guess if you come from the UK, it may take a while to get used to there being only two lanes in each direction.

The UK has tens of thousands of miles of dual carriageway much with a 70 mph limit.

SeanW

Could someone tell me exactly what a "Left In Left Out" juntion is?

I'm guessing it means an exit/entry that can only be accessed from one carriageway of the motorway.

Doesn't sound perfect but if the proper exiting and merging-in lanes and facilities are provided, I don't see any logical reason why a section of carraigeway cannot be reclassified as motorway.

weehamster

LILO on the Naas Road after the upgrade.
I don't think vehicles coming out of these junctions would be fast enough to join the motorway traffic and could cause problems.

AugustusMaximus

Give em a long enough slip road and they certainly could accelerate to the neccessary speed.

weehamster

Oh agreed. But how many of these junctions have a long enough exit lane? No extra work is going to be carried on the redesignated roads.

The above picture has short exits which are a bit dangerous I feel but at least its has 3 lanes to merge into so you would join a 'slow-ish' lane. the redesignated roads only have 2 lanes

Zoney

cherrypicker555 wrote: »

But yet 6 lane UK motorways have a better safety record then the Republics 4 lane new ones, and are much busier,how do you explain that ?

Considering L drivers are prohibited from driving on both.

But in Ireland, a significant proportion of our drivers are "learners" and drive on motorways regardless. They've changed things recently with the new learners permit and allegedly stricter enforcement of all learners driving accompanied, but until recently, people were on the provisional licences for years, driving unaccompanied, and certainly on motorways.

That will have impacted on any safety figures for Ireland.