M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

road_high

The N20 and N24 are positively 3rd world standard roads. They need priority funding and it's vital the upgrades are pushed at a local level to make the plans a reality.

marno21

Sent an email to the NRA asking if there was any plan for a junction at the R515 west of Charleville and this was the response:

NRA wrote:

Dear Mr. FJFAKFAM,

I have been informed that there are no plans for a junction at the location mentioned. Junctions are provided north and south of Charleville which are considered sufficient to accommodate all traffic to/from Charleville and surrounding areas.

I trust this information is of assistance to you.

Surprising that instead of using the R515 to link to Charleville they plan to construct a link road from the M20 below Charleville to meet the old N20 south of Charleville. Would surely have made more sense to use the R515 as a link road instead of constucting a new one as the M20/R515 junction would take all the NW Cork traffic (a lot more than some seem to think) out of the town instead of the current plan where all the NW Cork traffic will have to filter through the town and join the M20 near O'Rourkes's Cross.

jank

This tread is 7 years old. I wonder will it be ten years old for any movement to start on it.

Jhcx

marno21 wrote: »

Sent an email to the NRA asking if there was any plan for a junction at the R515 west of Charleville and this was the response:



Surprising that instead of using the R515 to link to Charleville they plan to construct a link road from the M20 below Charleville to meet the old N20 south of Charleville. Would surely have made more sense to use the R515 as a link road instead of constucting a new one as the M20/R515 junction would take all the NW Cork traffic (a lot more than some seem to think) out of the town instead of the current plan where all the NW Cork traffic will have to filter through the town and join the M20 near O'Rourkes's Cross.

I understand the point of getting traffic onto a fast moving road quickly but too many towns are becoming obsolete maybe it has been mentioned in cabinet to keep as much traffic going through the town to keep business going this is why this layout has been chosen. In my opinion

Vanquished

Jhcx wrote: »

I understand the point of getting traffic onto a fast moving road quickly but too many towns are becoming obsolete maybe it has been mentioned in cabinet to keep as much traffic going through the town to keep business going this is why this layout has been chosen. In my opinion

Nah that route was chosen pre recession and anyway there's no fear of Charleville as it's the primary commercial centre for a wide enough hinterland. The town features numerous supermarket chains in particular which all appear to do good business.

The planned junction at the Lidl depot which is around 3 kilometres from the town provides far better access anyhow. The R515 funnels traffic down a narrow street that's already a pinch point in the town.

mydiscworld

Surely an easy win for the Gov pre Election would be to allow the planning permission stage to be reinstated

richiek83

mydiscworld wrote: »

Surely an easy win for the Gov pre Election would be to allow the planning permission stage to be reinstated

Article in the business post yesterday about the Kerry Group petitioning for M7/M9 upgrade works to proceed. Contained within that article was an unquoted line that the next motorway priority for the Govt was the M20 Limerick - Cork road.

I will try and post the link later.

Jack1985

richiek83 wrote: »

Article in the business post yesterday about the Kerry Group petitioning for M7/M9 upgrade works to proceed. Contained within that article was an unquoted line that the next motorway priority for the Govt was the M20 Limerick - Cork road.

I will try and post the link later.

Is there any hope the bottleneck on the N7/M7 from Newlands to beyond Naas will be reduced any time soon with upgrade works? And does anyone actually know is it an infrastructural problem or simply the road is that busy on for example Friday nights?

Vanquished

mydiscworld wrote: »

Surely an easy win for the Gov pre Election would be to allow the planning permission stage to be reinstated

The Adare bypass omnishambles has to be addressed as part of any reactivation of the M20 project. We could get some clarity on that in the next few months when a preferred route for a new Limerick to Foynes road is released. This could well incorporate a bypass of Adare.

http://media.wix.com/ugd/1cba1b_6893eb75f8ac4a0a9f7f1db86eb8f0a9.pdf

Leonard Hofstadter

Such is the lack of news on this project, and so little seemingly is being done, you'd forget that there's two Cork Ministers (one Senior, one Junior - Sherlock) and two Limerick Ministers in the Government! OK, Limerick will have done well for itself now that last bit of motorway to Galway is at long, long last under construction, and Limerick-Galway is far, far better than Limerick-Cork even as things stand, but it really annoys me that Cork and Limerick still have such terrible road connections! I note Wexford got the M11 Arklow-Rathnew (OK, not the constituency, but it does benefit the good people of Wexford when they go to Dublin or somewhere in Wicklow), the New Ross bypass is one of the next to go and there was a murmur about the Enniscorthy motorway as well and they've only got two 'Ministers' (if you include the Chief Whip).

You don't even hear backbench TDs in Cork going on about getting the motorway done, either. Hopefully there will be a proper announcement before the next election, it's an absolute disgrace that the road has not yet been updated - it really should have been done in the boom of course, but better late than never.

Reenascreena

May be of interest - press release just issued by Billy Kelleher:

Fianna Fáil Press Office
Billy Kelleher TD
Cork North Central

4th February 2015



Government must commit to funding M20 motorway project – Kelleher



Cork North Central Fianna Fáil TD Billy Kelleher has called on the government to commit to providing the necessary funding for the M20 Cork to Limerick motorway project.

Deputy Kelleher was responding to comments made by the Minister for Transport in the Dáil last month where he ruled out providing funding for the project for the foreseeable future.

Deputy Kelleher commented, “The proposed M20 motorway link between Cork and Limerick is of vital importance for the entire south west region. A motorway connection between these two cities will lead to greater economic development across the area and will help drive down transport costs.

“The current N20 route is simply unfit for purpose. The National Roads Authority has identified sections of the N20 as being the most dangerous for road users in the entire country. Despite this the Minister for Transport has refused to outline when he expects work to commence on the replacement M20 motorway when I raised the matter with him in the Dáil. Cork and Limerick are the second and third largest cities in Ireland. It is simply unacceptable that an adequate motorway connection still does not exist between these two cities.

Deputy Kelleher also called on the Minister for Transport to provide a date as to when construction on the project will commence.

“I am calling on the government to give a clear commitment to the M20 motorway project. The people in the south west have been waiting far too long for a safe and modern motorway link between Cork and Limerick. The time has come for the government to commit to providing the necessary funding to allow the project proceed and for the Minister to outline a reliable date for the commencement of works” concluded Deputy Kelleher.

-Ends-

Rightwing

Reenascreena wrote: »

May be of interest - press release just issued by Billy Kelleher:

Fianna Fáil Press Office
Billy Kelleher TD
Cork North Central

4th February 2015



Government must commit to funding M20 motorway project – Kelleher



Cork North Central Fianna Fáil TD Billy Kelleher has called on the government to commit to providing the necessary funding for the M20 Cork to Limerick motorway project.

Deputy Kelleher was responding to comments made by the Minister for Transport in the Dáil last month where he ruled out providing funding for the project for the foreseeable future.

Deputy Kelleher commented, “The proposed M20 motorway link between Cork and Limerick is of vital importance for the entire south west region. A motorway connection between these two cities will lead to greater economic development across the area and will help drive down transport costs.

“The current N20 route is simply unfit for purpose. The National Roads Authority has identified sections of the N20 as being the most dangerous for road users in the entire country. Despite this the Minister for Transport has refused to outline when he expects work to commence on the replacement M20 motorway when I raised the matter with him in the Dáil. Cork and Limerick are the second and third largest cities in Ireland. It is simply unacceptable that an adequate motorway connection still does not exist between these two cities.

Deputy Kelleher also called on the Minister for Transport to provide a date as to when construction on the project will commence.

“I am calling on the government to give a clear commitment to the M20 motorway project. The people in the south west have been waiting far too long for a safe and modern motorway link between Cork and Limerick. The time has come for the government to commit to providing the necessary funding to allow the project proceed and for the Minister to outline a reliable date for the commencement of works” concluded Deputy Kelleher.

-Ends-

On reading this, no one would ever think FF were in power when the country was awash with cash. :rolleyes:

jgbyr

Read this morning that the GAA accept that the 30 million grant by the Government towards the development of Pairc Ui Caoimh has been influenced by the bid for the rugby world cup . The Gaelic Grounds in Limerick is also part of this bid.
Surely a decent road network would have to play a part in this also!

lucernarian

I can't help but wonder if an enhanced train network would be of more use between Cork and Limerick, for foreign visitors coming to watch any matches. Be it improvements to the layout of Limerick Junction, speed improvements on the Cork main line or special direct services between the two etc.

Isn't there a level crossing on the line somewhere near Mallow too?

Reenascreena

Imagine if there was a Cork - Galway train - 130 miles, more or less a straight line connecting the Republic's 2nd, 3rd and 4th cities. In most developed countries you'd expect it to take maybe 2 1/2 hours. Here the current journey time can be 5 hours or more!!!

cgcsb

lucernarian wrote: »

I can't help but wonder if an enhanced train network would be of more use between Cork and Limerick, for foreign visitors coming to watch any matches. Be it improvements to the layout of Limerick Junction, speed improvements on the Cork main line or special direct services between the two etc.

Isn't there a level crossing on the line somewhere near Mallow too?

Actually current journey times between Cork and Limerick by rail are between 1h35 and 1h55 including changing train. So actually quite competitive with road by journey time. If there were a direct train between the two, which wouldn't be that difficult to do, journey times could be about 1h20.

In terms of cost, it'd be a very small capital cost, a tiny fraction of a brand new motorway anyway. It'd need to be marketed heavily, a new south entrance to Kent station, perhaps a new bridge connecting it with the City Centre along with an upgrade of Colbert station and €5.99 one way fares.

I'd expect such a range of measures to drastically decrease traffic on the N20.

In terms of running costs, if it replaced the existing Limerick-jnct to Limerick shuttle the extra running costs would be tiny.

cgcsb

Reenascreena wrote: »

Imagine if there was a Cork - Galway train - 130 miles, more or less a straight line connecting the Republic's 2nd, 3rd and 4th cities. In most developed countries you'd expect it to take maybe 2 1/2 hours. Here the current journey time can be 5 hours or more!!!

we can but imagine, the oil and car industries are powerful.

Cookiemunster

Rightwing wrote: »

On reading this, no one would ever think FF were in power when the country was awash with cash. :rolleyes:

It kills me to defend FF but.... The plan at the time was to link Dublin to the main cities and then after that to linkup Cork/Limerick/Galway. The first part was done and the M20 was on it's way to ABP before the current government decided it was too expensive and canned it after millions had already been spent on planning.

Cookiemunster

lucernarian wrote: »

I can't help but wonder if an enhanced train network would be of more use between Cork and Limerick, for foreign visitors coming to watch any matches. Be it improvements to the layout of Limerick Junction, speed improvements on the Cork main line or special direct services between the two etc.

Isn't there a level crossing on the line somewhere near Mallow too?

It wouldn't be any use for freight though, as Irish Rail no longer do rail freight

lucernarian

cgcsb wrote: »

Actually current journey times between Cork and Limerick by rail are between 1h35 and 1h55 including changing train. So actually quite competitive with road by journey time. If there were a direct train between the two, which wouldn't be that difficult to do, journey times could be about 1h20.

In terms of cost, it'd be a very small capital cost, a tiny fraction of a brand new motorway anyway. It'd need to be marketed heavily, a new south entrance to Kent station, perhaps a new bridge connecting it with the City Centre along with an upgrade of Colbert station and €5.99 one way fares.

I'd expect such a range of measures to drastically decrease traffic on the N20.

In terms of running costs, if it replaced the existing Limerick-jnct to Limerick shuttle the extra running costs would be tiny.

They are somewhat competitive to begin with but low-cost improvements are still worth considering if something like an RWC bid is going to influence transport infrastructure. Improving Cork-Limerick rail connections should be looked at as well as preparing for a huge investment in the M20.

cgcsb

Cookiemunster wrote: »

It wouldn't be any use for freight though, as Irish Rail no longer do rail freight

Not a problem. Only 7.4% of the AADT on the N20 is made up of HGVs. If the majority of the other 92.6% of road users can be attracted to a fast, efficient, reasonably priced rail service, the traffic problems and the perceived need for an expensive motorway will diminish greatly.

cgcsb

lucernarian wrote: »

They are somewhat competitive to begin with but low-cost improvements are still worth considering if something like an RWC bid is going to influence transport infrastructure. Improving Cork-Limerick rail connections should be looked at as well as preparing for a huge investment in the M20.

I don't see how a single event, lasting days can be used in any meaningful way to justify billions in spending. A series of small improvements to the railways across the country could be more beneficial to transport than a single large investment in a motorway, alas the needs of the oil producing countries and car manufacturing countries often come first before our own needs.

lucernarian

cgcsb wrote: »

I don't see how a single event, lasting days can be used in any meaningful way to justify billions in spending. A series of small improvements to the railways across the country could be more beneficial to transport than a single large investment in a motorway, alas the needs of the oil producing countries and car manufacturing countries often come first before our own needs.

My point was in response to jgbyr....

I myself don't see anything in the RWC offering any compelling arguments for improved Cork-Limerick train services beyond the existing ones, especially for cheaper improvements.

cookiemunster wrote:

It wouldn't be any use for freight though, as Irish Rail no longer do rail freight

Although they still carry out some limited rail freight, the cheaper service improvements like what cgcsb mentioned would be passenger-service-oriented anyway.

Pete_Cavan

I have said it before and I’ll say it again; the rail link could be done quite cheap if planned in conjunction with the M20. When CPOing land for the M20, widen the land take from Charleville to Patrickswell so that a direct rail track can be provided alongside the motorway. Earthworks and structures for the motorway could be designed to accommodate the new train line at relatively little extra over cost above that already required to build the motorway.

Let CIE lay the tracks and make necessary improvements to stations when they are prepared to implement direct Cork - Limerick services. Additional stations would be optional but a P&R at Patrickswell would probably be a good idea.

Poxyshamrock

If you look at google maps, the old Limerick to Charleville line is still pretty much there, albeit without tracks. Has IÉ since sold this land on?

Vanquished

The alignment has been breached by the N21 at Attyflin and the N20 north of Croom. Along with numerous driveways!

Jhcx

Having a look as osi.ie it shows where the track has been taken over. Is it not just as quick to use the spur or create a spur at limerick junction

Cool Mo D

Why is the route following the old N20 anyway - it makes no sense.

The Cork - Limerick motorway should go out the M8 as far as Mitchelstown, then head North toward Tipperary Town (with single carriageway bypass of the town), and then roughly follow the N24 to Limerick.

This option would be about 20% shorter in terms of new motorway, and replace the N20 and a terrible section of the N24 in one go. It would be a little more indirect, but less than 10 minutes difference at motorway speeds.

Pablo Escobar

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Why is the route following the old N20 anyway - it makes no sense.

The Cork - Limerick motorway should go out the M8 as far as Mitchelstown, then head North toward Tipperary Town (with single carriageway bypass of the town), and then roughly follow the N24 to Limerick.

This option would be about 20% shorter in terms of new motorway, and replace the N20 and a terrible section of the N24 in one go. It would be a little more indirect, but less than 10 minutes difference at motorway speeds.

You're basically then funelling new traffic through what is already a black spot at Dunkettle and not linking up Blackpool, which needs to happen.

AugustusMinimus

The cost of doing a spur of the M8 would prob cost as much as the entire M20. Yes, it would be shorter, but the terrain is more difficult plus in the case of the M20, it is an online build for a lot of it.

The various towns along the M20 would still need to be bypassed which would be an additional cost.

Lastly, Dunkettle doesn't need to be clogged anymore than it is already. It also doesn't help that Watergrasshill to Mitchelstown is narrow median which would be difficult to widen to 3 lanes if needed. I dunno how you'd widen the Fermoy viaduct too.