M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

AugustusMinimus

Mc Love wrote: »

A dual carriage way would be a massive improvement

One of 3 things can be built.

Full motorway
Online HQDC without alternative route
2+2

Motorway is the only way to go with this road. HQDC with a 120kph is dangerous imo due to potential of having tractors, cyclists and pedestrians using the road.

2+2 would be wholly unacceptable. Simple as that.

marno21

They should really do the whole thing from beginning to end as motorway but anything that has overtaking opportunities would be a good start. Stuck behind a car today from M20 J5 as far as Charleville. After coming off the motorway the car was driving at 80km/h before a brief period where he accelerated to 120km/h before slowing down to 60km/h from the Croom turnoff as far as Charleville where I turned off. By the time I got to Charleville there was 20+ cars behind me. I felt sorry for the ones that weren't taking the R515 turnoff

Carawaystick

The Croome Bypass has always baffled me, the lanes are what ~4.5m wide each and huge hard shoulders,
but the thing is all bar one right turn from the road Northbound are grade seperated, why not all?

I'd not mind this being made fully grade separated D2, if it meant the rest south was HQDC or higher.
Or an online upgrade of the Croome bypass. The Land take for this should not be wasted.

I'd also think an online upgrade of the section out of Cork to just before it crosses the Rail line near Grenagh/Rathduff would be ok. Everywhere else has too many accesses and you;ld be worse than the N18 to Bunratty.

There are 50 kmh sections of Motorway(M50) and sections with no hard shoulder at all with 120 limits(M1) so it should be possible to implement motorway restrictions on D2. Sher Cork already has a second type of motorway under the Lee ( Pedestrians, Cyclists and horse drawn vehicles banned from the JLT)

AugustusMinimus

Carawaystick wrote: »

The Croome Bypass has always baffled me, the lanes are what ~4.5m wide each and huge hard shoulders,
but the thing is all bar one right turn from the road Northbound are grade seperated, why not all?

I'd not mind this being made fully grade separated D2, if it meant the rest south was HQDC or higher.
Or an online upgrade of the Croome bypass. The Land take for this should not be wasted.

I'd also think an online upgrade of the section out of Cork to just before it crosses the Rail line near Grenagh/Rathduff would be ok. Everywhere else has too many accesses and you;ld be worse than the N18 to Bunratty.

There are 50 kmh sections of Motorway(M50) and sections with no hard shoulder at all with 120 limits(M1) so it should be possible to implement motorway restrictions on D2. Sher Cork already has a second type of motorway under the Lee ( Pedestrians, Cyclists and horse drawn vehicles banned from the JLT)

The plan for the M20 is to do online from Blarney to somewhere south of Mallow and for the northern section to be a completely new build.

As part of the online build, a new feeder road will also be built alongside the motorway to service houses and also to act as an alternative route to allow motorway designation.

As part as I know, the Croom bypass will not be used as part of the build. It is too fear east to tie in nicely with the proposed M20.

cjpm

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The plan for the M20 is to do online from Blarney to somewhere south of Mallow.....

Burnfort Junction

Vanquished

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

As part as I know, the Croom bypass will not be used as part of the build. It is too fear east to tie in nicely with the proposed M20.

The Croom bypass is to be upgraded to D2M as part of the plan. A single carriageway relief road around the village is also included.

AugustusMinimus

Vanquished wrote: »

The Croom bypass is to be upgraded to D2M as part of the plan. A single carriageway relief road around the village is also included.

I presume a separate road will have to be built to the side to give access to non motorway traffic ? Is that the relief road you mentioned ?

JupiterKid

The land take for the Croom bypass is huge - as big as the N7 Nenagh bypass which was widened into the M7. Why it wasn't built as a D2 is baffling.

The first section of M20 needed is between Mallow and Charleville. It should have been built a decade ago.

Missyelliot2

marno21 wrote: »

They should really do the whole thing from beginning to end as motorway but anything that has overtaking opportunities would be a good start. Stuck behind a car today from M20 J5 as far as Charleville. After coming off the motorway the car was driving at 80km/h before a brief period where he accelerated to 120km/h before slowing down to 60km/h from the Croom turnoff as far as Charleville where I turned off. By the time I got to Charleville there was 20+ cars behind me. I felt sorry for the ones that weren't taking the R515 turnoff

Know exactly what you mean. What happened? How is this road so far behind? Why do we have almost get sponsorship to get through Charleville, Buttevant and Newtwopothouse? Would love to stay and enjoy these towns, but I want to go home. I'm sure there are fantastic fun spots in all of these places......but I just want to get home-Straight road-no Buttevant! No Charleville!

Vanquished

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I presume a separate road will have to be built to the side to give access to non motorway traffic ? Is that the relief road you mentioned ?

Yeah the existing N20 is to be realigned from in or around Anhid cemetary swinging around to the existing Croom junction. A link road extends from here running parallel to the proposed M20 as far as the local road from Croom to Adare where it connects to the former N20 (pre 2001) north of the village.

Presumably this is to ensure that non motorway traffic is kept away from the narrow main street in Croom.

RikkFlair

This bridge outside Croom is gonna have to be demolished/widened to make space for the dual carriageway no? And likewise for another overbridge further in towards Limerick.

Makes you wonder why it wasn't done to begin with in 2000/01!

Cookiemunster

RikkFlair wrote: »

This bridge outside Croom is gonna have to be demolished/widened to make space for the dual carriageway no? And likewise for another overbridge further in towards Limerick.

Makes you wonder why it wasn't done to begin with in 2000/01!

They'll just lose the hard shoulder under the bridge as they did on the Nenagh bypass.

AugustusMinimus

RikkFlair wrote: »

This bridge outside Croom is gonna have to be demolished/widened to make space for the dual carriageway no? And likewise for another overbridge further in towards Limerick.

Makes you wonder why it wasn't done to begin with in 2000/01!

Because this is Ireland. People even in this thread are suggesting that 2+2 would be a good idea.

The M9 was actually done correctly and yet we have people still complaining about its build.

Mc Love

Yeah the bridge is ok looks like they dont need to lower the road like they had to do in Nenagh

spacetweek

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Because this is Ireland. People even in this thread are suggesting that 2+2 would be a good idea.

The M9 was actually done correctly and yet we have people still complaining about its build.

Please don't just go "If you're in favour of anything less than a motorway you're not planning for the future." I'm all for planning for it but I still think the M9 and M3 were overbuilt. The M20, on the other hand, should be a motorway as it's fully justified in this case.

AugustusMinimus

spacetweek wrote: »

Please don't just go "If you're in favour of anything less than a motorway you're not planning for the future." I'm all for planning for it but I still think the M9 and M3 were overbuilt. The M20, on the other hand, should be a motorway as it's fully justified in this case.

I simply don't believe either road was over built. Sections of the M8 have lower AADTs than the M9 but we never see complaints about that build.


Who knows what way traffic levels will go once the economy is also in full swing again. I also believe that the additional cost of motorway over the only other variant (2+2) is minimal enough and worth it.

AugustusMinimus

Here's a prediction. M20 to be announced in the run up to the next general election as part of vote buying.

zulutango

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Here's a prediction. M20 to be announced in the run up to the next general election as part of vote buying.

Well, I'd vote for them if they announced it. It's such a critical piece of infrastructure for the future development of Cork and Limerick cities, and for the whole south and west of Ireland.

irishfeen

zulutango wrote: »

Well, I'd vote for them if they announced it. It's such a critical piece of infrastructure for the future development of Cork and Limerick cities, and for the whole south and west of Ireland.

They can buy my vote too with the M20 too

littlemac1980

irishfeen wrote: »

They can buy my vote too with the M20 too

They may well buy your vote with a promise of the motorway - that doesn't mean they'll actually build it.

touts

zulutango wrote: »

Well, I'd vote for them if they announced it. It's such a critical piece of infrastructure for the future development of Cork and Limerick cities, and for the whole south and west of Ireland.

Very easy to announce it. I'd say they might also announce that the long awaited Limerick to Waterford. Cork to Waterford, Galway to Mayo Motorways. Every FG/Lab TD will be announcing local roads, schools, hospitals, bridges, colleges, industrial estates, broadband etc etc. We'll basically be promised a University in every village, a Motorway to every door and broadband to every socket. Hell they are so desperate at the moment they might even announce the DART to Dingle.

Building it is a VERY different story. When I see building start THEN they will get my vote.

antoobrien

touts wrote: »

Very easy to announce it. I'd say they might also announce that the long awaited Limerick to Waterford. Cork to Waterford, Galway to Mayo Motorways.

The most that the can announce is money to resume planning, which in itself would be very helpful.

Missyelliot2

zulutango wrote: »

Well, I'd vote for them if they announced it. It's such a critical piece of infrastructure for the future development of Cork and Limerick cities, and for the whole south and west of Ireland.

Yep.....they'll promise anything pre-election (as they did last time):rolleyes:

Vanquished

I've been travelling the full length of the N20 far more often than I would like to over the past few weeks and even though I know it like the back of my hand. Driving it on a regular basis just emphasises what a shocking excuse for major interurban route it is! I just despise it at this stage!

The inadequacy of the Croom to Mallow section is particularly glaring with its lack of overtaking opportunities and poor sightlines. The trudge through Charleville, the "surface" through Buttevant, the Ballybeg bends and the free for all that ensues at the N72 roundabout in Mallow! A special mention too for the pathetic and dangerous mess that is the 2+1 section!

Horrible, horrible road!

Mc Love

Vanquished wrote: »

I've been travelling the full length of the N20 far more often than I would like to over the past few weeks and even though I know it like the back of my hand. Driving it on a regular basis just emphasises what a shocking excuse for major interurban route it is! I just despise it at this stage!

The inadequacy of the Croom to Mallow section is particularly glaring with its lack of overtaking opportunities and poor sightlines. The trudge through Charleville, the "surface" through Buttevant, the Ballybeg bends and the free for all that ensues at the N72 roundabout in Mallow! A special mention too for the pathetic and dangerous mess that is the 2+1 section!

Horrible, horrible road!

Just imagine if there was no 2+1 section, I bet you'd despise it even more

Vanquished

Mc Love wrote: »

Just imagine if there was no 2+1 section, I bet you'd despise it even more

Every chance. Although there's no denying that the experiment was dreadfully executed!

marno21

Am I right in saying that when the M20 is finally built there will be no exit for the R515 (the motorway seems to run west of Charleville)?

I would've thought this exit would definately be there as this road handles all the traffic from North West Cork (Kanturk, Newmarket and surrounds) going to Limerick.

KerranJast

marno21 wrote: »

Am I right in saying that when the M20 is finally built there will be no exit for the R515 (the motorway seems to run west of Charleville)?

I would've thought this exit would definately be there as this road handles all the traffic from North West Cork (Kanturk, Newmarket and surrounds) going to Limerick.

Most likely would be an underpass into the town as there are estates in along the road there beyond the golf club.

I imagine local traffic would need to go through the town to get onto the M20.

Edit: to clarify these are what I'd logically guess. Solid route was not yet identified (just a corridor).

marno21

Hmm; for people like me coming from the R515 it'll be a trek through Charleville and onto the M20 at O'Rourke's Cross?

Hopefully progress is made on this project in 2015. Other PPPs are moving along well so hopefully this will be next.

marno21

Repair works to be done on the N20 through Buttevant. More delays on the way.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/worst-street-in-ireland-to-be-repaired-306982.html