M9 - Waterford motorway construction updates

alpha2zulu

Silverado wrote: »

I was just up a Mullinavat today and I could see some small offroad landscaping jobs being done. They were also backfilling the hard shoulder mentioned above but this doesn't seem to be very much because there aren't many places to do.

Even to my layman's eyes, it very much looks that everything will be finished this week - if they stay at it.

That was my impression aswell, I'm not sure if Aquos76 is referring to a section closer to Knocktopher missing its barriers possibly? On the section up as far as Lukeswell, in the past 2 weeks all remaining barrier work was done and wall reflectors and cats eyes put up. Given that timescale another week would definetly be enough to have the same level of finish on the last 8km into Knocktopher. I was actually surprised BAM managed to get so much work done in that space of time. The only work that I could see which was remaining was the most minor of minor jobs such as some speed/river/lay-by signs and tidying up the landscaping at the Mullinavat junction.

Anyway I got a good reponse by mail today from one of my local TD's after pointing out the speculation and apparent mixed messages on opening dates for the project. Looks like it may be highlighted in the Dail soon enough.

Minister

Subsequent to an email I sent to a senior official I, yesterday, received this message of reply from Kilkenny Co Co.....

"In reply to your email of yesterday please be advised of the following.

Some weeks ago it was tentatively proposed that the new section of motorway from Danesfort to Waterford City could open to traffic on Monday 8th March.

An inspection by site supervisory staff in mid February revealed that a lot of work, mainly in the form of snagging, missing sections of safety barrier, missing delineators, removal of rock from embankments and so on remained to be done. On this basis, the Client Kilkenny Co Co decided in the interests of safety that an additional two weeks would be required to reach such a stage as to allow the road to be opened. This decision, I must stress, had nothing whatever to do with the availability of a Minister but had merely to do with the normal process of engineering inspection in the lead up to substantial completion of a project.

With regard to the matter of safety audits please note that the railway bridge at Knockmoylan has this past week passed an audit by Iarnroid Eireann. This is very good news.

Also the main stage 3 safety audit of the full route was conducted last week but as yet we (KCC) do not have sight of its findings. In any event it is our opinion and that of the site representative that the rock embankments require further attention prior to scheme opening and that this work can be safely completed by the contractor in the next two weeks or so."

However, I have been told , (locally) by a person working on the road,that then road is indeed fit to hand over to the Local Authority from Monday next. It appears to me, from reading the email, that the work remaining is cosmetic and not on the road itself. It appears that they (KK Co Co) do not want to do this work while the road is open.

I would wonder would it not be possible to close a lane for a few hundred metres at a time while the work on banks, hard shoulder, etc goes on? If thre is a reduced speed limit imposed in tandem with the lane closure - say 30 kmph for 500 metres - the staff working on the project would be safe and the motorist/driver will not be unduly inconvenienced. They will easily make up the seconds lost as compared to the present N9 cart track!

Road-Hog

Minister wrote: »

Subsequent to an email I sent to a senior official I, yesterday, received this message of reply from Kilkenny Co Co.....

"In reply to your email of yesterday please be advised of the following.

Some weeks ago it was tentatively proposed that the new section of motorway from Danesfort to Waterford City could open to traffic on Monday 8th March.

An inspection by site supervisory staff in mid February revealed that a lot of work, mainly in the form of snagging, missing sections of safety barrier, missing delineators, removal of rock from embankments and so on remained to be done. On this basis, the Client Kilkenny Co Co decided in the interests of safety that an additional two weeks would be required to reach such a stage as to allow the road to be opened. This decision, I must stress, had nothing whatever to do with the availability of a Minister but had merely to do with the normal process of engineering inspection in the lead up to substantial completion of a project.

With regard to the matter of safety audits please note that the railway bridge at Knockmoylan has this past week passed an audit by Iarnroid Eireann. This is very good news.

Also the main stage 3 safety audit of the full route was conducted last week but as yet we (KCC) do not have sight of its findings. In any event it is our opinion and that of the site representative that the rock embankments require further attention prior to scheme opening and that this work can be safely completed by the contractor in the next two weeks or so."

However, I have been told , (locally) by a person working on the road,that then road is indeed fit to hand over to the Local Authority from Monday next. It appears to me, from reading the email, that the work remaining is cosmetic and not on the road itself. It appears that they (KK Co Co) do not want to do this work while the road is open.

I would wonder would it not be possible to close a lane for a few hundred metres at a time while the work on banks, hard shoulder, etc goes on? If thre is a reduced speed limit imposed in tandem with the lane closure - say 30 kmph for 500 metres - the staff working on the project would be safe and the motorist/driver will not be unduly inconvenienced. They will easily make up the seconds lost as compared to the present N9 cart track!

There is no way that a contractor and in particular BAM would agree to this approach.

Minister

Road-Hog wrote: »

There is no way that a contractor and in particular BAM would agree to this approach.

Hi RH, I am not familiar on the modus operandi of infrastructure firms and would wonder why they could not take this approach? Surely it would save them over run penalties?

wellbutty

Minister wrote: »

Hi RH, I am not familiar on the modus operandi of infrastructure firms and would wonder why they could not take this approach? Surely it would save them over run penalties?

The opening of the road is already a disgraceful 12 months late!

Bards

wellbutty wrote: »

The opening of the road is already a disgraceful 12 months late!

and yet somehow they'll hoodwink our lazy press into believing it was delivered on-time & on-budget

Sponge Bob

The Galway-Ballinasloe motorway opened well over 2 months ago ( BUT ON TIME ) and they are still closing one lane sections of it EVERY DAY as they fix bits of barrier and landscaping along the road.

dougal

Minister wrote: »

An inspection by site supervisory staff in mid February revealed that a lot of work, mainly in the form of snagging, missing sections of safety barrier, missing delineators, removal of rock from embankments and so on remained to be done. On this basis, the Client Kilkenny Co Co decided in the interests of safety that an additional two weeks would be required to reach such a stage as to allow the road to be opened.

This seems totally at odds with the situation on the Kilcullen-Carlow section where the NRA seemed to be the "Client" and the Kildare Co Co knew nothing about the schedule of the road opening apparently.

Maybe they just organised things differently on this section.

ohnoigotsick

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The Galway-Ballinasloe motorway opened well over 2 months ago ( BUT ON TIME ) and they are still closing one lane sections of it EVERY DAY as they fix bits of barrier and landscaping along the road.

are they not closing the HS on a daily basis ?

Sponge Bob

Sometimes HS only and sometimes HS and Inside lane. Nevertheless the M6 road is open while they do so, not closed to all traffic.

alpha2zulu

Minister wrote: »

An inspection by site supervisory staff in mid February revealed that a lot of work, mainly in the form of snagging, missing sections of safety barrier, missing delineators, removal of rock from embankments and so on remained to be done. On this basis, the Client Kilkenny Co Co decided in the interests of safety that an additional two weeks would be required to reach such a stage as to allow the road to be opened. This decision, I must stress, had nothing whatever to do with the availability of a Minister but had merely to do with the normal process of engineering inspection in the lead up to substantial completion of a project

You have to wonder why is it only in recent weeks after years of construction that they have sudenly found the need to put in more barriers. Also its not as if the rocks suddenly appeared overnight either. It just feels like the project will never get done.

As Sponge Bob mentions rolling works on the road would be such a more sensible solution. Absolutely anything is better than sending thousands of people on to the current deathtrap that is the southern N9. If it is Kilkenny Co Co's decision to keep it shut for these minor works it is really an awful decision.

Just for comparison this is how a section of the BAM sister project-the N25 Waterford bypass looked just 8 days before opening last October. Where theres a will theres a way.:rolleyes:

smdweb

I had a look today as I was ont he N9 towards Kilkenny. There are still a lot of items stored on the Motorway, lots of bags and sheet metal up on the Lukeswell flyover and I can't see it being ready for a good few days. I think we will be lucky to have it by the 22nd.
Just wish they would pull the finger out and get it done.

I just hope people don't say it was delivered on-time!
M9 Blog

dougal

alpha2zulu wrote: »

If it is Kilkenny Co Co's decision to keep it shut for these minor works it is really an awful decision.

Why are local councils the decision makers anyway on pieces of National Infrastructure?

It all seems like a bit of a cover up. Quoting safety concerns is just a bit too convenient.

Minister wrote: »

Also the main stage 3 safety audit of the full route was conducted last week but as yet we (KCC) do not have sight of its findings.

You would think that this would be the last thing needed before the road opens.

smdweb

The story is now on AA Roadwatch
http://www.aaroadwatch.ie/traffic/story.asp?id=108510

Looks like the 22nd of March has been confirmed!

_______________________________________________
M9 Blog

Bodan

I just read this in the Leinster Leader.

Repeat accidents spur safety concern among locals over new M9 motorway

By Lisa Deeney
Four single-vehicle accidents on the new 28km stretch of the M9 motorway last Monday has spurred safety concerns among councillors and local residents. However, Kildare County Council insists the motorway is safe to drive on.
Four cars were involved in single vehicle accidents on the northbound stretch of motorway beyond Ballitore last Monday (1 March).

"There were single-vehicle crashes where drivers hit ice patches under a bridge," said KCC's Road Safety Officer Declan Keogh.

The roads were very icy and frosty on Monday, he said, adding that the council gritted the roads on Sunday night.

The car accidents are currently subject to a garda investigations.

The council is advising motorists to drive with care, especially given the current frosty weather conditions. "People think it is safe to drive 120km/h in the current frosty weather conditions. It is not, but more than 10,000 cars have used this new motorway safely. The road as far as Kildare County Council is concerned is safe to drive on," a council spokesman added.

This new section of the M9 from Castledermot to Ballitore was discussed at the quarterly County Road Safety Working Group last month, where officials from the council, local councillors, the National Roads Authority, the Road Safety Authority, the Health Service Executive, the Gardaí and the Fire and Ambulance Service attended.

It is standard practice for this group to review any significant accidents that occurred on Kildare's roads since its last meeting.

However, this road is less than 12 weeks old, yet there have been a number of crashes since it opened on December 21. Three major incidents, as well as a number of minor incidents, have occurred on the 28km stretch of motorway.

In early February four people were hospitalised after a multi-vehicle smash along this stretch of motorway, where commuters were stranded in their cars as the southbound lane of the motorway closed.

There was also a fatal car collision on the M9 exit near Ballitore, where 22-year-old Castledermot man James Scully died.

These latest four single-vehicle car accidents last Monday has spurred further concerns among some South Kildare councillors.

According to Richard Daly, the handover of the motorway to the council was "hastily completed". "I was gobsmacked by the haste of the handover.. it deserved a better lead-in time."

He added: "We didn't get an opportunity to ask questions about safety barriers and all safety issues relating to it. Now that does not mean there is anything wrong but for a multimillion-euro project it merited better consideration."

Cllr Daly claimed: "We were never taken through the route. There was no official opening, there were no instructions. It was just a basic hand-over of a piece of structure. At that stage our engineers were given no advance walk-through,"

Councillor Martin Haydon also echoed concerns regarding safety barriers, grass verges and embankments. Cllr Daly added that assurances were needed from the council that the road has been finished to the highest standard.

A spokesperson for Kildare County Council declined to comment on this.

Link
Some of them are speculating that they think the road was opened too soon, but it is hard to say with the recent bad weather we are having.

Road-Hog

Bodan wrote: »

I just read this in the Leinster Leader.



Link
Some of them are speculating that they think the road was opened too soon, but it is hard to say with the recent bad weather we are having.

I wonder should the Minister for Transport be held accountable for all these accidents?

mike65

Why? Cos people skidded on ice? Unless you can show some direct cause/effect with regard to design or build standards thats a daft comment.

lukejr

The problem is Irish people don't know how to drive on motorways (apart from the wrong lane thing) always driving at 120km/h even if foggy, snowing, ice, or extreme rain.

Hence the accidents in recent years on motorways, nearly always down to driver error, not judging conditions correctly.

emfifty

rte.ie

Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey will meet companies in Atlanta, Georgia in the US.


he wont be opening any new roads any time soon:mad:

Zoney

And possibly more important than driving too fast for conditions is not keeping far enough back from the car in front. Indeed far too many people are idiots about this even in perfect conditions.

I'd prefer to see people pulled for tailgating rather than speeding to be honest, although mind you the two often go hand in hand.

alpha2zulu

Bodan wrote: »

I just read this in the Leinster Leader.

According to Richard Daly, the handover of the motorway to the council was "hastily completed". "I was gobsmacked by the haste of the handover.. it deserved a better lead-in time."

Pity he dident take a look at this thread, a December opening was being mooted for months beforehand!

I'm not sure what that Cllr. is implying...them not getting a VIP tour of the road has resulted in people sliding on ice...:rolleyes: The most obvious issue seems to be a need for increased frequency of gritting/saltling or the salting being done at the wrong times.

He added: "We didn't get an opportunity to ask questions about safety barriers and all safety issues relating to it. Now that does not mean there is anything wrong but for a multimillion-euro project it merited better consideration."

What place do unqualified individuals have in declaring if a road is safe or not. Pretty much typical of politics in this country.That form of interference is about as useful as pub gossip. If the qualified engineers of Roadbridge and the NRA thought it was good enough then thats where the inspections should end.

wellbutty

Looks like the opening date will be exactly as planned: :rolleyes:

http://www.nra.ie/RoadSchemeActivity/KilkennyCountyCouncil/N9N10WaterfordKnocktopherKilcullenW/SchemeName,16508,en.html

tramor

Well put alpha2zulu. How could councillor Daly possibly spot a safety issue (if there even was one, which I absolutely doubt). The absolute arrogance of him!! Typical of the cr** these "no knowledge" idiots spout to get some media coverage. No sense of responsibility for what he says. If that motorway closes for some "safety audit" by a pile of Kildare county councillors its time to leave this country for good.

Amtmann

tramor wrote: »

Well put alpha2zulu. How could councillor Daly possibly spot a safety issue (if there even was one, which I absolutely doubt). The absolute arrogance of him!! Typical of the cr** these "no knowledge" idiots spout to get some media coverage. No sense of responsibility for what he says. If that motorway closes for some "safety audit" by a pile of Kildare county councillors its time to leave this country for good.

I'm playing Devil's Advocate, but you could say the same about most of us here.

alpha2zulu

Furet wrote: »

I'm playing Devil's Advocate, but you could say the same about most of us here.

Of course. Thats why most of us here I think would put our faith in the decisions of qualified engineers working on these projects. We arent appearing in newspapers complaining about being

gobsmacked by the haste of the handover.. it deserved a better lead-in time."

Even a google of "M9 Carlow Kilcullen" has this thread as its first hit. Anybody with half an interest in the M9 opening would have from that known about how advanced the project was and the expected opening date.

Road-Hog

What place do unqualified individuals have in declaring if a road is safe or not. Pretty much typical of politics in this country.That form of interference is about as useful as pub gossip. If the qualified engineers of Roadbridge and the NRA thought it was good enough then thats where the inspections should end.[/QUOTE]

He has as much 'place' as some people who contribute to this site have you would have to admit? Plenty of unqualified keyboard bashers would appear to have taken or take trips up unfinished motorways and subsequently declare them finished or safe to drive on!!!

L1011

To be honest, someone with an interest in roads is actually more likely to know something about them than a media-hungry councillor.

In the case of the Carlow Kilcullen scheme the inhouse engineers of one of the most skilled and experienced road building contractors in the country deemed it safe. I trust Roadbridge FAR more than I trust Kildare County Council - both engineers are utterly untrained councillors.

GeneHunt

It‘s interesting reading this article in the Leinster Leader – I was speaking to a guy today who uses the M9 regularly, (he didn’t know anything about this article nor did I til now) and he mentioned that there could be a safety issue with surface of this new stretch of motorway. As he had seen, the “four single-vehicle car accidents” and he also noticed many tyre tracks on the grass verges from cars leaving the motorway with speed. Okay it could be ice and driving too fast for the weather conditions. Other motorways are also being affected by the poor weather conditions why are we not seeing the same numbers of accidents on them. Well maybe there is a problem with the road surface (I hope not) or maybe it’s a few local councillors cheesed off that they missed a VIP tour and there picture in the local paper.

L1011

I drive a massive amount and EVERY motorway is lined with tyre tracks off the lanes since the chill in January. Irish people can't drive to the conditions, and I include myself in that as in the >10000km I had to drive in icey weather for, I managed to spin out once.

tramor

Last January during the freeze I had to drive from Waterford to Dublin. There was a lot of snow and ice starting about half way up the new Carlow-Kilkullen section of M9 and continuing up to the M9/M7 junction. I saw no accidents on the new section of M9 (did do some scary skids, due to hitting ice at 80kmph, just before slowing down). I saw 3 accidents on the old section (about 6Km section) of M9, just before the M7 junction, and lots of skid marks indicating that cars had gone into the hard shoulder (and amazingly, back out) at speed. I know this does not "prove" anything but it does indicate the snow and ice was to blame, as against the motorway itself.