M9 - Waterford motorway construction updates

johnbk

I couldnt find another post for updates on this road. Anyway I have loaded photos onto flickr.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/30294381@N02/sets/72157607162609456/

Amtmann

This should turn into a good thread.

The M9 is a road I know very little about. How many schemes are currently underway, and how long (in kilometers) is each one? How much of the M9 is open as motorway as of now?

BluntGuy

The M9 near the Grannagh Interchange is progressing well, with the viaduct being constructed at a good pace.


The M9, upon completion, will be 116.5 km in length, making it the 4th longest motorway in the country at the end of 2010.

D.L.R.

Furet wrote: »

How many schemes are currently underway, and how long (in kilometers) is each one? How much of the M9 is open as motorway as of now?

M9 sections

Kilcullen spur from M7 - 6km - open 1993(?)
Kilcullen-Carlow - 28km (2010)
Carlow Bypass - 19km - open 2008
Carlow-Knocktopher - 40km (2010)
Knocktopher-Waterford - 24km (2009)

total - open 25km, construction 92km.

fricatus

D.L.R. wrote: »

Kilcullen spur from M7 - 6km - open 1993(?)

Not far off. It was 1994.

BluntGuy

This isn't specifically about the M9 motorway, but here is just some information I uploaded to Wikipedia the other day.

After getting my calculator out, I figured out how much motorway we'd have in Ireland by 2015. (This does not factor in the possibility of an M10 and M18).

Motorway Lengths 2015 (Ireland)

M50 - 45 km (28 mi) (Dublin Ring Road)
M25 - 23 km (14 mi) (Waterford Bypass)
M20 - 90 km (56 mi) (Cork-Limerick)
M17 - 25.5 km (15 mi) (Galway-Tuam)
M11 - 8 km (5 mi) (M50 Extension)
M9 - 116.5 km (73 mi) (Dublin - Waterford - via M7)
M8 - 155 km (96 mi) (Dublin - Cork - via M7)
M7 - 175 km (109 mi) (Dublin - Limerick)
M6 - 144 km (90 mi) (Dublin - Galway - via M4)
M4 - 55 km (34 mi) (Dublin - North West)
M3 - 47 km (29 mi) (Dublin - Kells)
M1 - 80 km (50 mi) (Dublin - Belfast)

964 km of motorway in Ireland by 2015/602 miles of motorway in Ireland by 2015

If you factor in a possible M10 and M18 that increases to about 990 km.

I'm not sure about the M11, somebody may have to correct me on that, but the rest I'm very sure about.

Hope that helps somebody!

johnbk

On the Knocktopher to Powerstown stretch the southern section of this route is more progressed. Most of the stuctures are started. I would think the weather has slowed earth moving. There are two decent bridges, the one at Powerstown over the Barrow and one at Kells over the Kings river. Not much done on either of these yet. Kilkenny is quite lucky as it gets a special interchange IMO - a freeflow trumpet see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interchange_(road))

This junction is currently a huge building site (50 acres) (Like a quarry as it is all rock) that doesnt really resemble a road. This is also the main site office for this project. It resembles a small village with all the facilities. See the pictures at http://www.flickr.com/photos/30294381@N02/sets/72157607162609456/

icdg

BluntGuy wrote: »

The M9 near the Grannagh Interchange is progressing well, with the viaduct being constructed at a good pace.


The M9, upon completion, will be 116.5 km in length, making it the 4th longest motorway in the country at the end of 2010.

I am presuming this is including Powerstown-Waterford, which currently is not actually classified as a motorway. The motorway reclassification SI as published only reclassifies the N9 as motorway to the southern end of the Carlow bypass. Hopefully we will see the rest reclassified at a future date though.

johnbk

It does.

I was a bit confused why this section was left out of the 24 of September reclassification so I rang the designers in the Tramore Roads Design Office and they said that there are objections on this section. I think that it will be in time it will be reclassified too.

Amtmann

johnbk wrote: »

On the Knocktopher to Powerstown stretch the southern section of this route is more progressed. Most of the stuctures are started. I would think the weather has slowed earth moving. There are two decent bridges, the one at Powerstown over the Barrow and one at Kells over the Kings river. Not much done on either of these yet. Kilkenny is quite lucky as it gets a special interchange IMO - a freeflow trumpet see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interchange_(road))

This junction is currently a huge building site (50 acres) (Like a quarry as it is all rock) that doesnt really resemble a road. This is also the main site office for this project. It resembles a small village with all the facilities. See the pictures at http://www.flickr.com/photos/30294381@N02/sets/72157607162609456/

Great shots John. Keep them coming. I must say, the road-building has really brought out the kid in me. I think if I were younger it'd probably have prompted me to do civil engineering in university.

BluntGuy

icdg wrote: »

I am presuming this is including Powerstown-Waterford, which currently is not actually classified as a motorway. The motorway reclassification SI as published only reclassifies the N9 as motorway to the southern end of the Carlow bypass. Hopefully we will see the rest reclassified at a future date though.

I'm sure it will be.

It would be an unwise decision not to.

murphaph

Will be very interesting to see how the N10 link road is designated-a freeflow trumpet to the M9 means there's no escape route once you pass the last roundabout on the N10 heading towards the motorway, which means the stretch of single carriageway N10 will require motorway restrictions.

BluntGuy

murphaph wrote: »

Will be very interesting to see how the N10 link road is designated-a freeflow trumpet to the M9 means there's no escape route once you pass the last roundabout on the N10 heading towards the motorway, which means the stretch of single carriageway N10 will require motorway restrictions.

Well we'll end up with the situation we used to have at the M6/M4 interchange, where it's signed 'M10' in one direction and 'N10' in the other.

road_high

Any pics of Knocktopher-Waterford section? Is next to open. One very impressive flyover over the existing N9 north of Mullinavat.

Bards

johnbk wrote: »

On the Knocktopher to Powerstown stretch the southern section of this route is more progressed. Most of the stuctures are started. I would think the weather has slowed earth moving. There are two decent bridges, the one at Powerstown over the Barrow and one at Kells over the Kings river. Not much done on either of these yet. Kilkenny is quite lucky as it gets a special interchange IMO - a freeflow trumpet see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interchange_(road))

This junction is currently a huge building site (50 acres) (Like a quarry as it is all rock) that doesnt really resemble a road. This is also the main site office for this project. It resembles a small village with all the facilities. See the pictures at http://www.flickr.com/photos/30294381@N02/sets/72157607162609456/

Here is the plan layout of the actual Junction

http://n9-n10kilcullen-waterford.ie/eiswp/chapters/Figure4-131_Dunbell_Junction_eis_wp.pdf

road_high

johnbk wrote: »

It does.

I was a bit confused why this section was left out of the 24 of September reclassification so I rang the designers in the Tramore Roads Design Office and they said that there are objections on this section. I think that it will be in time it will be reclassified too.

Who would be bothered objecting to this? :rolleyes:. Except perhaps the toll operators on the M8 who fear traffic may divert onto the M9. All I can think of anyhow.

Bards

mfitzy wrote: »

Who would be bothered objecting to this? :rolleyes:. Except perhaps the toll operators on the M8 who fear traffic may divert onto the M9. All I can think of anyhow.

One name springs to mind "Brendan McCann" of the Green Party:mad:

road_high

Has anybody any pics of any other sections?

BluntGuy

No pics, but if anybody's wondering about the actual number of exits, and where they'll lead then here's a clear scheme layout...

(Make sure to zoom in)

mackerski

BluntGuy wrote: »

Well we'll end up with the situation we used to have at the M6/M4 interchange, where it's signed 'M10' in one direction and 'N10' in the other.

While it has been done before, it's not really valid. If it can only be reached from a motorway, it's motorway.

johnbk

More pictures of the M9. What do you think of the roundabout end to the M9?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30294381@N02/sets/72157607393465577/

Chris_533976

An absolutely shameful, idiotic and disgraceful piece of short-sightness. The whole N25/N9/N24 junction should be freeflow and will have to be revisited in 10 years for a big, expensive, disruptive upgrade.

BluntGuy

Those fools.

As usual we've gone for the option that's ultimately going to be the most expensive. There should a least be a freeflow system for M9-M25 movements. This is ridiculous...

Incidently, as the "creator", if you will, of the M9 wikipedia page, do you mind if I use some of your pictures to brighten up the page?

johnbk

Use any picture you want. I live in the M9 vicinity so its easy for me to take pictures.

johnbk

I have seen the picture of the layout many times but wasnt sure if they would have a slip off the M9 bypassing the roundabout and linking up to the new Granny junction.
http://www.upthedeise.org/coppermine/albums/userpics/normal_bypass2.jpg
Anyway, this picture looks very accurate to how the finished junction will be. Now as well as the Limerick traffic and the Dublin taffic meeting at Granny we now have the Rosslare and Cork traffic too. I dont know much about traffic modeling but I think there could be delays at this roundabout the day it opens?

Irish and Proud

johnbk wrote: »

More pictures of the M9. What do you think of the roundabout end to the M9?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30294381@N02/sets/72157607393465577/

Nice pics man!!!

About the roundabout - they should have done the Mooncoin by-pass as motorway (I believe that's the plan for the first 3 miles of it anyway!) and have the M9 joining through a trumpet interchange instead of the roundabout - forget about linking in the old N24 then - there's no need!

Regards! :cool:

Irish and Proud

Chris_533976 wrote: »

An absolutely shameful, idiotic and disgraceful piece of short-sightness. The whole N25/N9/N24 junction should be freeflow and will have to be revisited in 10 years for a big, expensive, disruptive upgrade.

The M9/N24 definitely should have been freeflow - the roundabout looks pretty generous in diameter, but it still isn't the correct thing to do IMO.

Regards!

BluntGuy

The dual-roundabout setup is one of the laziest 'solutions' to a traffic-management problem I've ever seen.

Some innovation would not have gone amiss on this section.

Lennoxschips

If they've built a very large roundabout with plenty of space between the carriageways of the approach roads then that could mean that they've left room for flyovers in the future, which would be an easy upgrade when/if needed.

BluntGuy

Lennoxschips wrote: »

If they've built a very large roundabout with plenty of space between the carriageways of the approach roads then that could mean that they've left room for flyovers in the future, which would be an easy upgrade when/if needed.

I suppose that's true.

But I would've at least liked to see an M9 > M25 slip so that drivers can at least avoid the first roundabout. That would've at least taken away the potential for bottlenecks from the M9 onto the N24 link roundabout.

It's too early to judge whether their choice of setup. It all depends on how busy the N25/M25 (whatever it is) bypass route is. But I imagine it'll remove at least 15,000 vehicles from Waterford at peak times.

road_high

Anybody know of approx and opening date/ month or such like? I know the signs say Spring 09.
Seems to be quite slow in my opinion in their progress since the beginning of this year. Whether that is weather related or not I don't know. Much of the road seems to be laid at this stage but major work remains (to my eyes) particularly around the junctions at Mullinavat & Knocktopher...

BluntGuy

I'm afraid there is still major work to be done near Mullinavat...

But from what I can see, the section will be finished by August 2009...

road_high

BluntGuy wrote: »

I'm afraid there is still major work to be done near Mullinavat...

But from what I can see, the section will be finished by August 2009...

Thats pretty slow compared to sections of the N8/6/7 and even the Carlow bypass all opened ahead of time.

spacetweek

Chris_533976 wrote: »

An absolutely shameful, idiotic and disgraceful piece of short-sightness. The whole N25/N9/N24 junction should be freeflow and will have to be revisited in 10 years for a big, expensive, disruptive upgrade.

*vomit*
Totally agree. And what's worse, is that the current layout is such a dog's dinner that the upgrade would probably have to bypass the whole lot on a new alignment to the east. How would you make the M25/M9 junction freeflow? The new section would probably need to interface with the M25 at an all-new junction.

Again: *vom*

BluntGuy

spacetweek wrote: »

*vomit*
Totally agree. And what's worse, is that the current layout is such a dog's dinner that the upgrade would probably have to bypass the whole lot on a new alignment to the east. How would you make the M25/M9 junction freeflow? The new section would probably need to interface with the M25 at an all-new junction.

Again: *vom*

Hmmm... we've all complained about the M25/M9 junction and yet none of us have come up with a solution.

I can see why!

It's such a mess...

Anyway, I gave it a go (in a very bored moment):

Basically, the first pic is the existing layout (drawn by me), and the second is what I would do to fix it. Basically all the M25/M9 movements are free-flow. But there is no feasible way to have the N24 movements free-flow too, so there are still two roundabouts...

All I can say is if they ever tried to build this it would be one hell of a complicated junction!

fricatus

BluntGuy wrote: »

Hmmm... we've all complained about the M25/M9 junction and yet none of us have come up with a solution.

I think the best thing would be to have the M9 just terminate at the M25 using the grade-separated roundabout that's already planned. If the N24 could join the M9 at another grade-separated junction further out, I'm sure that would solve most or all the potential problems.

N24 non-motorway traffic could use the existing routes (which are currently in use), and while I'm all for getting the very best of facilities for my city, even I realise that it's Waterford we're talking about, not Atlanta!

BluntGuy

fricatus wrote: »

I think the best thing would be to have the M9 just terminate at the M25 using the grade-separated roundabout that's already planned. If the N24 could join the M9 at another grade-separated junction further out, I'm sure that would solve most or all the potential problems.

N24 non-motorway traffic could use the existing routes (which are currently in use), and while I'm all for getting the very best of facilities for my city, even I realise that it's Waterford we're talking about, not Atlanta!

I know, my idea is a tad overkill...

But I still think they could've done something better than those roundabouts. I really think they could've had a few free-flow slips from the M9 to M25 at the very least.

johnbk

The old (Granagh) Granny junction was a roundabout between the N9 and the N24 and it was mayhem. The new Granny junction after millions being spent is a roundabout between the M9 and the N24?? To further complicate it, we now have the Cork and the Rosslare traffic joining the party.

I know that the junction capacity will be huge compared to the old roads but what ever happened to future proofing?

If you look at a map I think the N24 could become more important than the N25. With a motorway from Cork to Cahir, Cork traffic could easily go via the N24 to Waterford plus the N24 catches all west of Ireland traffic.

I aggree that a better job should have been done merging the M9 and N24 and then used a junction similar to the proposed M18/M17-M6 in Athenry between the combined M9/N24 and the M25.

fricatus

All very true...

At least the roundabout joining the N9, M9 and N24 is nice and big, so it will be able to handle way more traffic than the current arrangement. By the way, this roundabout is actually in use now as part of a temporary diversion (for all those who haven't been in Waterford lately).

By the way, the new section from Sallypark to the Newrath roundabout (behind the Autoboland garage) is now half open. It will be a dual carriageway when it's completed, but for now, one side has been opened, and no doubt the other side will be built and opened in the next few months.

I must say, it looks really good. You're higher up and the view is a lot more open as you come into the city. The old road was very ugly and grotty. This one will certainly give a better first impression to people arriving. When those horrible pylons are removed, the place will look better again. Happy days!

johnbk

I agree the upgrade work around Waterford will really help Waterford's appearance. The new Suir bridge itself will be an attaction and a landmark when approching Waterford. The roads will make Waterford look completly different.

Kilkenny on the other hand will now have its main road (M9 link -M10??) coming into Kilkennys uglier side (The Hebron Industrial estate). I wonder will they singpost the city centre as staight on or tell visitors to to turn left??

road_high

johnbk wrote: »

Kilkenny on the other hand will now have its main road (M9 link -M10??) coming into Kilkennys uglier side (The Hebron Industrial estate). I wonder will they singpost the city centre as staight on or tell visitors to to turn left??

Raised that exact point on the KK forum a while back. Hebron on one side and a halting site on the other. Medieval city indeed :rolleyes:.
They should upgrade the ring road perhaps to better accomodate the traffic

road_high

BluntGuy wrote: »

I'm afraid there is still major work to be done near Mullinavat...

But from what I can see, the section will be finished by August 2009...

They are laying the road (tarmac) in much of it. Saw it going on near Hugginstown the other evening. Just seems to be around the junctions work remains. I would hope Spring 2009 is on track.
And what an improvement from the current road it will be

Road-Hog

BluntGuy wrote: »

Hmmm... we've all complained about the M25/M9 junction and yet none of us have come up with a solution.

I can see why!

It's such a mess...

Anyway, I gave it a go (in a very bored moment):

Basically, the first pic is the existing layout (drawn by me), and the second is what I would do to fix it. Basically all the M25/M9 movements are free-flow. But there is no feasible way to have the N24 movements free-flow too, so there are still two roundabouts...

All I can say is if they ever tried to build this it would be one hell of a complicated junction!

I think you should get yourself into road design, I think the Tramore House Regional Design office of the NRA are presently looking for suitably qualified individuals at the moment, you seem to have the talent.

With regard to your suggestion I think if you queried it with the NRA you would be told that the perdicted future traffic volumes would not justify the N24/M9/N25 roundabout to be grade seperated. I would think we are lucky that the waterford bypass itself is dual carraigeway.

road_high

Road-Hog wrote: »

I would think we are lucky that the waterford bypass itself is dual carraigeway.

I don't. It's completely neccessary to be dual carriageway/motorway. Anything less would have been completely inadequate and shortsighted in the extreme.

BluntGuy

Road-Hog wrote: »

I think you should get yourself into road design, I think the Tramore House Regional Design office of the NRA are presently looking for suitably qualified individuals at the moment, you seem to have the talent.

With regard to your suggestion I think if you queried it with the NRA you would be told that the perdicted future traffic volumes would not justify the N24/M9/N25 roundabout to be grade seperated. I would think we are lucky that the waterford bypass itself is dual carraigeway.

Sadly, e-mailing the NRA is an exercise in futility.

I e-mailed them about several issues regarding the N25 and they weren't able to give me any concrete answers. They just handed me back the same vague, uninformative information I found on their website.

As regard to traffic volumes... it is impossible to tell yet at this stage whether or not the design will turn out to be a total failure. All I know is that from looking at the design, bottlenecks are very likely on the link road between the two motorways.

I don't know how they could've fixed the design cheaply. They could've had the M9 merging onto the M25 (M4/M6-style) and then have the junction with N24 immediately after. But I hate restricted-access junctions, and it would just transfer the bottleneck to the N24/M25 junction.

Chris_533976

Send everything a half mile to the east, N24 joins with M9 via a trumpet interchange, M9 is three lanes from here to a freeflow junction with the M25 to the south.

johnbk

A simple addition, which shoud have been included, is a slip off the M9 onto the short link road bypassing the first roundabout. The short link road is two lanes anyway so only use the inside lane off the roundabout for N24 traffic and keep the outside lane exclusively for the M9.

Sully

Whats the situation when leaving Waterford, past Swan Plastics the road has changed yet again. The older road is closed, and you seem to use the new road that was being made to the far right. Will these eventually be a dual carriageway off the main road connecting to the already exisiting one leading up to the bridge?

BluntGuy

mfitzy wrote: »

I don't. It's completely neccessary to be dual carriageway/motorway. Anything less would have been completely inadequate and shortsighted in the extreme.

Yes, especially considering there's a bridge.

I think the amount of traffic justifies it anyway. The Rice Bridge has an AADT of 40,000. I reckon half of that will use the bypass which easily justifies the D2AP the bypass is being built as. (That's right, it isn't a motorway according to their website).

I wish the Clonmel bypass had been dual-carriageway... too many damn roundabouts! Makes travelling to Waterford from Limerick a pain...

BluntGuy

I hope this stretch gets redesignated in a third tranche of motorway designations. If it opens with green signs I'm going to puke...

I hate it when a great new road is spoiled by the lower speed limit and the presense of tractors, cyclists etc.

road_high

BluntGuy wrote: »

I hope this stretch gets redesignated in a third tranche of motorway designations. If it opens with green signs I'm going to puke...

I hate it when a great new road is spoiled by the lower speed limit and the presense of tractors, cyclists etc.

I would reckon so. Would be stupidity not to. Ala the Carlow bypass. If anything else it's ahuge waste of money on signage not to do it right from the start.