Womens Attitudes in Nightclubs

LolaLuv

IzzyWizzy wrote: »

I for one am sick of being approached when I clearly want to be left alone, so I would be fairly frosty/polite/formal (never rude) to someone who approached me. There are several reasons:

The main thing men don't seem to realise is that it can be very intimidating to be approached by a total stranger, especially if you're on your own. If I'm standing alone at a bus stop or walking through the park, the last thing I want is some man coming up to me and chatting me up. How on earth do I know if he's normal or a crazy weirdo? In my experience, I've had nothing but hassle from men who do that, so now I just give them all the cold shoulder. Sorry, but I put my safety above hurting some randomer's feelings. I'm extremely friendly to guys I meet in college, at clubs/societies/friends of friends, but when I'm on my own, I have my guard up.

Another major thing is that so many men mistake friendliness for flirting. I'm sick and tired of not being able to have a conversation with a man in a pub without him thinking I want to go home and shag him. I even had one idiot call me a c*cktease because I was friendly when he came up to me and talked to him for 10-15 minutes, then when he asked me what I was doing the next day, I said I'd be at my BF's house, and he called me a pile of names!! My friend couldn't believe it, it was the most banal conversation about college and jobs and your man thought I was interested in him? SO many men are like this, and it's another reason I'm very very careful about being friendly to someone I've just met.

Another thing is some men don't seem to realise that we go out for many other reasons other than to score someone. When I go out, it's always with friends and just to have a laugh. I'm not interested in scoring randomers, and as I said above, I'm very wary of talking to guys who approach me and are clearly interested. I want to be left alone to enjoy myself with my friends. Why on earth is that 'snobby'?

I just feel like it's a lose-lose situation most of the time. If you're friendly, they get the wrong impression. If you're frosty, they think you're a stuck up b*tch. I think a lot of men have a sexist, arrogant attitude, thinking they can get anyone they want, and simply not understanding the reasons a female might be wary of them (as I mentioned, safety, having a boyfriend, just wanting to be left alone). If a girl obviously isn't interested, why don't you just let it go? There are plenty of girls dying to score someone any night of the week, why waste your time on someone who clearly isn't interested?

QFT, especially the bit about it being intimidating when you're alone. I don't think most men consider the possibility that we're wondering if they have the potential to get violent. I'm not saying every woman thinks like that all the time, but there are situations where you should just leave a woman alone. If she's walking down the street by herself at night, don't try to chat her up, you have the potential to frighten the hell out of her more than anything. Really great point for you to bring up, thanks a lot!

Publin

IzzyWizzy wrote: »

The main thing men don't seem to realise is that it can be very intimidating to be approached by a total stranger, especially if you're on your own. If I'm standing alone at a bus stop or walking through the park, the last thing I want is some man coming up to me and chatting me up. How on earth do I know if he's normal or a crazy weirdo?

Enough of your rape fantasies . Anyway, the discussion was about girls saying "f**k off" to guys who approach them in nightclubs. I doubt they'd be so quick to tell a guy to "f**k off" if he approached them when they were alone at the bus stop or walking through the park as you mention above. They would be polite and if they established he was a freak and wouldn't feck off, they'd get the fook outta there.

IzzyWizzy wrote: »

In my experience, I've had nothing but hassle from men who do that, so now I just give them all the cold shoulder.

And maybe the guys who no longer bother approaching Irish girls have encountered nothing but rudeness from them and now instead will only chat up foreign ladies.

LolaLuv

Publin wrote: »

and now instead will only chat up foreign ladies.

Lucky me!!! :pac:

Wagon

Kiera wrote: »

Do you have a death-wish??

...Are you asking me out?

Kiera

Wagon wrote: »

...Are you asking me out?

I dont date hippies

Terry

Wagon wrote: »

...Are you asking me out?

Kiera wrote: »

I dont date hippies

/Worf
Enough.

Koyasan

PillyPen wrote: »

QFT,

Quantum Field Theory?

And as for

how do you get the Troggos and the Mongtards to go away



Is there a glossary I can check? Urban Dictionary is at a loss.

Monkey61

quote - "Listen. If you dress up and go to a club, you are going to be hit on.
If you wear a low cut top, we are going to look at your cleavage.
If you wear a tight skirt/ jeans, we are going to check out your arse and legs.

You know this, so don't start moaning about it when it happens.
It's fúcking human nature for men to look at women they find attractive.
Women do the same thing to men they find attractive.

Men are not commodities either, but women still ogle us (not me. I'm a fat ugly bastard, but my good looking friends are always ogled by women in pubs and clubs).
[/QUOTE]

My head may explode from the misogynistic bulls*t. this has nothing to do with anybody "looking" at anyone else. It is the fact that nobody seems to realise that it is not anyone's god given right to intrude on somebody else's night out and expect them to be happy about it.

Fair enough then, if women can expect to be hit on, then equally men can expect to be told to feck off if said woman isn't interested instead of crying like a baby about it.

The chauvinism on this thread alone makes me feel queasy and to be honest it sickens me if this is a representation of Irish men today. Having a read of the responses to this post may give anybody with even a moderate amount of intelligence an idea of why sometimes women are not delighted to be approached by you.

ashyle

How to talk to women http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj5fLVCHlpk

SEXY!

I myself have had some lovely chats with Irish men if they aint too drunk/smelly/annoying.. I can't bring myself to be a turbo bitch to people.. even people I don't know...

last week me and my friend were in Dorans and got sleazed on by this somewhat middle eastern guy who tried to rub my face and ugh just ugh.

Terry

Monkey61 wrote: »

- "Listen. If you dress up and go to a club, you are going to be hit on.
If you wear a low cut top, we are going to look at your cleavage.
If you wear a tight skirt/ jeans, we are going to check out your arse and legs.

You know this, so don't start moaning about it when it happens.
It's fúcking human nature for men to look at women they find attractive.
Women do the same thing to men they find attractive.

Men are not commodities either, but women still ogle us (not me. I'm a fat ugly bastard, but my good looking friends are always ogled by women in pubs and clubs).

My head may explode from the misogynistic bulls*t. this has nothing to do with anybody "looking" at anyone else. It is the fact that nobody seems to realise that it is not anyone's god given right to intrude on somebody else's night out and expect them to be happy about it.

Fair enough then, if women can expect to be hit on, then equally men can expect to be told to feck off if said woman isn't interested instead of crying like a baby about it.

The chauvinism on this thread alone makes me feel queasy and to be honest it sickens me if this is a representation of Irish men today. Having a read of the responses to this post may give anybody with even a moderate amount of intelligence an idea of why sometimes women are not delighted to be approached by you.

I take it you just read that bit, felt enrtaged and didn't read the rest of the post.

I suggest you go back and read all of it this time.

AARRRGH

If a girl goes to Boomerangs or some other meat market like that, she knows she is going to be hit on. And if she goes there showing off her boobs and legs she has even less of an excuse.

It's like me complaining when I get hit on in gay bars.

If you want a quiet drink, go to a quiet pub.

Monkey61

Terry wrote: »

I take it you just read that bit, felt enrtaged and didn't read the rest of the post.

I suggest you go back and read all of it this time.

I have no idea what you're talking about cos I did read the whole post.....

DenMan

AARRRGH wrote: »

It's like me complaining when I get hit on in gay bars.

Do you get taken to gay bars or do you have little other options late at night when in need of a quick drink ? Just curious as to why you would be there, knowing that gay men will be looking at you. Seems a little unnesseccary. Assuming you are like me (straight).

dr.bollocko

ashyle wrote: »

How to talk to women http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj5fLVCHlpk

SEXY!

I myself have had some lovely chats with Irish men if they aint too drunk/smelly/annoying..

I may be drunk and smelly and annoying but I am not a communist!

AARRRGH

DenMan wrote: »

Do you get taken to gay bars or do you have little other options late at night when in need of a quick drink ? Just curious as to why you would be there, knowing that gay men will be looking at you. Seems a little unnesseccary. Assuming you are like me (straight).

I live on Georges Street in Dublin, so a few of my locals are gay bars. Also, I have some gay friends.

I have no problem whatsoever with a gay man trying to chat me up in a gay bar. I politely tell him I'm not gay. I certainly wouldn't tell him to **** off!

javaboy

Monkey61 wrote: »

I have no idea what you're talking about cos I did read the whole post.....

I'll explain it for you. Terry explained something about human nature. Men and women are usually attracted to one another. It's biological. If a woman is wearing clothes that expose a lot of skin, she is going to get looked at. A decent looking bloke will get the same thing. Simple as that.

He then went on to say that women (and similarly men) know this fact so have to expect it when they go out to a nightclub where it's well known a lot of people are looking to hook up.

Finally he said if a man tries to chat you up and you're not interested, simply say so politely. If they don't take the hint by all means tell them to **** off.

What exactly is chauvinistic about that?

Terry

javaboy wrote: »

I'll explain it for you. Terry explained something about human nature. Men and women are usually attracted to one another. It's biological. If a woman is wearing clothes that expose a lot of skin, she is going to get looked at. A decent looking bloke will get the same thing. Simple as that.

He then went on to say that women (and similarly men) know this fact so have to expect it when they go out to a nightclub where it's well known a lot of people are looking to hook up.

Finally he said if a man tries to chat you up and you're not interested, simply say so politely. If they don't take the hint by all means tell them to **** off.

What exactly is chauvinistic about that?

Yeah. What he said.

DenMan

AARRRGH wrote: »

I live on Georges Street in Dublin, so a few of my locals are gay bars. Also, I have some gay friends.

I have no problem whatsoever with a gay man trying to chat me up in a gay bar. I politely tell him I'm not gay. I certainly wouldn't tell him to **** off!

Thanks for explaining that. Like yourself I also have gay friends (male and female) and am very proud to consider them really good friends. I also wouldn't tell them **** off either. Cheers.

MIN2511

AARRRGH wrote: »

I live on Georges Street in Dublin, so a few of my locals are gay bars. Also, I have some gay friends.

I have no problem whatsoever with a gay man trying to chat me up in a gay bar. I politely tell him I'm not gay. I certainly wouldn't tell him to **** off!

Fancy the dragon this weekend:p

LolaLuv

javaboy wrote: »

I'll explain it for you. Terry explained something about human nature. Men and women are usually attracted to one another. It's biological. If a woman is wearing clothes that expose a lot of skin, she is going to get looked at. A decent looking bloke will get the same thing. Simple as that.

He then went on to say that women (and similarly men) know this fact so have to expect it when they go out to a nightclub where it's well known a lot of people are looking to hook up.

Finally he said if a man tries to chat you up and you're not interested, simply say so politely. If they don't take the hint by all means tell them to **** off.

What exactly is chauvinistic about that?

I don't have time for a long debate because I'm off to the doctor, so I'll explain the other side for clarification. The issue (from my point of view) is that it seems like Terry was saying that if a woman puts any effort into her appearance, it must be for a man and we should therefore expect to be targeted. While I agree that it's silly to go to a club and expect not to get hit on, every time a woman dolls herself up it isn't necessarily for male attention.

Sure, women and men have evolved certain ways and blah blah blah. Frankly, I'm sick of hearing about evolution on boards. It doesn't explain everything because people DO have the ability to behave in a certain way counter to their evolutionary determinants. To say "I have to do this because I'm a man and have been evolved to do so" is simply a base, uncivilized (proper spelling, just for you java:P) pathetic excuse that allows men to behave however the hell they want to.

There's nothing wrong with being respectful. Millions of men and women do it every single day.

dr.bollocko

PillyPen wrote: »

I don't have time for a long debate because I'm off to the doctor, so I'll explain the other side for clarification. The issue (from my point of view) is that it seems like Terry was saying that if a woman puts any effort into her appearance, it must be for a man and we should therefore expect to be targeted. While I agree that it's silly to go to a club and expect not to get hit on, every time a woman dolls herself up it isn't necessarily for male attention.

Sure, women and men have evolved certain ways and blah blah blah. Frankly, I'm sick of hearing about evolution on boards. It doesn't explain everything because people DO have the ability to behave in a certain way counter to their evolutionary determinants. To say "I have to do this because I'm a man and have been evolved to do so" is simply a base, uncivilized (proper spelling, just for you java:P) pathetic excuse that allows men to behave however the hell they want to.

There's nothing wrong with being respectful. Millions of men and women do it every single day.

Love, in this continent it is "uncivilised".

javaboy

PillyPen wrote: »

I don't have time for a long debate because I'm off to the doctor, so I'll explain the other side for clarification. The issue (from my point of view) is that it seems like Terry was saying that if a woman puts any effort into her appearance, it must be for a man and we should therefore expect to be targeted. While I agree that it's silly to go to a club and expect not to get hit on, every time a woman dolls herself up it isn't necessarily for male attention.

I didn't read it that way at all tbh. Maybe there was an earlier post I didn't see.
In the post I was talking about Terry went to great lengths to say that it works both ways and didn't imply that girls dress up for attention. He just said they should expect it if they do dress up.

Sure, women and men have evolved certain ways and blah blah blah. Frankly, I'm sick of hearing about evolution on boards. It doesn't explain everything because people DO have the ability to behave in a certain way counter to their evolutionary determinants. To say "I have to do this because I'm a man and have been evolved to do so" is simply a base, uncivilized (proper spelling, just for you java:P) pathetic excuse that allows men to behave however the hell they want to.

Well I didn't say that. You're twisting things a little I think.

AARRRGH

MIN2511 wrote: »

Fancy the dragon this weekend:p

Good idea!

Terry

PillyPen wrote: »

I don't have time for a long debate because I'm off to the doctor, so I'll explain the other side for clarification. The issue (from my point of view) is that it seems like Terry was saying that if a woman puts any effort into her appearance, it must be for a man and we should therefore expect to be targeted. While I agree that it's silly to go to a club and expect not to get hit on, every time a woman dolls herself up it isn't necessarily for male attention.

Sure, women and men have evolved certain ways and blah blah blah. Frankly, I'm sick of hearing about evolution on boards. It doesn't explain everything because people DO have the ability to behave in a certain way counter to their evolutionary determinants. To say "I have to do this because I'm a man and have been evolved to do so" is simply a base, uncivilized (proper spelling, just for you java:P) pathetic excuse that allows men to behave however the hell they want to.

There's nothing wrong with being respectful. Millions of men and women do it every single day.

People do have the ability to control themselves, but some choose not to.
These people exist, whether you like it or not.

Coming next week in PI: No man will chat me up. What am I doing wrong?

Monkey61

It is implicitly sexist to imply that if a woman chooses to wear clothes that correspond to the current fashion for night club wear that she cannot complain about being constantly hounded by men. This is also the same argument that is used to justify date rape. Terry's entire argument was basically that "women are asking for it" by wearing certain clothes. That is sexist plain and simple.

The problem isn't with men "looking" at women - it is with men approaching women, when a lot of the time they don't want to be approached.

Politeness is all well and good - but most men really have no idea what it is like to be a woman and to be constantly hassled every time you go out by people that you have no interest in talking to. It's not fun to constantly have conversations interrupted etc just because a random person has decided that they want to have sex with you!

If you want to insist that "women" as a whole need to be more polite to every single man who approaches them, then it is just as reasonable for me to suggest that it's not a woman's problem and instead it is men as a whole who need to stop complaining when a woman is apparently rude to you and accept that sometimes you might get told to feck off. If you are imposing on someone's time - they might not be happy about it!

LolaLuv

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Love, in this continent it is spelled uncivilised.

Right, but the proper spelling is with a zeeeeee. Your continent is just wacky.

javaboy wrote: »

I didn't read it that way at all tbh. Maybe there was an earlier post I didn't see.
In the post I was talking about Terry went to great lengths to say that it works both ways and didn't imply that girls dress up for attention. He just said they should expect it if they do dress up.



Well I didn't say that. You're twisting things a little I think.

Your post was much more benign than Terry's. Here's what I had a problem with, specifically:

It's fúcking human nature for men to look at women they find attractive.
Women do the same thing to men they find attractive.

Men are not commodities either, but women still ogle us (not me. I'm a fat ugly bastard, but my good looking friends are always ogled by women in pubs and clubs).

"Ogling" is very rude. It's gross, as a matter of fact. I don't do it to men (even if I find them attractive), and I would expect the same courtesy in kind.

This part:

You know this, so don't start moaning about it when it happens...
you dress up so that people will look at you.

was especially offensive. To me it says that a woman puts effort into her appearance, she must expect to be ogled and doesn't have the right to be offended by such. That's ridiculous. And no, all women do not dress up so that other people will look at them. Sometimes some women do it strictly for themselves. :eek::eek::eek::eek:

If you can't see where I'm coming from then we'll simply have to agree to disagree.

LolaLuv

Terry wrote: »

People do have the ability to control themselves, but some choose not to.
These people exist, whether you like it or not.

Coming next week in PI: No man will chat me up. What am I doing wrong?

Right, so where's the redeeming time? :rolleyes:

truecrippler

Dinter wrote: »

Not to sound like an egotistical prick but I can honestly say I've never been told to fuck off by a woman in a nightclub.

It depends on how you approach them really. If you go over and bully your way into their group and demand they talk to you with some ancient, unfunny "line" then in all fairness you're pushing in on them, spoiling their night and you kind of deserve short shrift. Unless you're getting some sort of signals beforehand you're wasting your time and theirs.

Women in nightclubs aren't as shy and demure as they might like to think. If they're into you, you should have a pretty good idea pretty quickly. If you don't get it then no amount of patter is going to change it.

How many lads here have come close to telling some drunken swamp donkey to fuk off when they come barging in on top of you?

I don't, I grab me coat and leg it. Happened a few times.

Terry

Monkey61 wrote: »

It is implicitly sexist to imply that if a woman chooses to wear clothes that correspond to the current fashion for night club wear that she cannot complain about being constantly hounded by men. This is also the same argument that is used to justify date rape. Terry's entire argument was basically that "women are asking for it" by wearing certain clothes. That is sexist plain and simple.

The problem isn't with men "looking" at women - it is with men approaching women, when a lot of the time they don't want to be approached.

Politeness is all well and good - but most men really have no idea what it is like to be a woman and to be constantly hassled every time you go out by people that you have no interest in talking to. It's not fun to constantly have conversations interrupted etc just because a random person has decided that they want to have sex with you!

If you want to insist that "women" as a whole need to be more polite to every single man who approaches them, then it is just as reasonable for me to suggest that it's not a woman's problem and instead it is men as a whole who need to stop complaining when a woman is apparently rude to you and accept that sometimes you might get told to feck off. If you are imposing on someone's time - they might not be happy about it!

I was waiting for someone to throw the rape line in there.

Listen, I lived in a house full of women for many years and they were constantly asking me how they looked, "does my arse look big in this?" and so forth.

They dressed up when they were going out in order to attract men. They told me this.
They were not the type of women to come home with a different man every night either.

The simple fact of the matter is if you are going to dress up and go to a night club, men are going to hit on you. Stop pretending that you're not expecting it to happen.

I know that women dress up to attract men.
Women know they dress up to attract men.

What's the problem with just admitting it?

Like someone said earlier, if you want to go for a few quiet drinks with your friends, then go to a quiet pub.

For the record, I have had drunk women slobbering all over me in nightclubs, so I do actually know what you are talking about.

As for the rape line, there are sick fúcks out there who will rape a women regardless of what she is wearing. The "she was asking for it line" is proof they are sick fúcks.
Chatting a woman up is hardly akin to rape.

Is it any wonder there are so many spinsters moaning that they can't get a man if this is the attitude they take when a man approaches them?

Semele

I'm actually disgusted at the attitudes in here! I would not have believed that it was still so common to see men as somehow being entitled to force themselves on women without being wanted, which is what it comes down to.

I'm not a rude person in general but I, like most of my friends, have learned that being polite to the type of guy who comes over to talk to you when you're out for the night is usually a recipe for being stuck with him for the entire evening. No amount of chatting for a little while to be nice and then explaining that you're only out to catch up with your friends and really want to be left alone is going to cut it. There are few things as thick-skinned and self-righteous as your average guy out on the pull.

I have been reduced to telling people to **** off when they would not go away. In one memorable incident, my friends and I were joined at our table by 3 of the rudest men I have ever seen. Despite the fact that we were evidently having a personal conversation- one girl was crying- they refused to leave us alone. We explained, in hope of embarassing them into feeling bad and fecking off, that the crying girl had recently had a miscarriage...only for them to begin the most offensive stream of personal questions and insensitive jokes. I had no qualms about telling them to **** off- not that it made the slightest bit of difference. They were then idiotic enough to try to get us to go to a club with them! Why on earth would we want to do that??? Talking to us for half an hour, even though most of that conversation consisted of us asking them to please go away, seemed to them to be a courtship culminating in some sort of promise to be with them.

On another- I was buying a drink for myself in a club. A guy pushed in beside me and started chatting. I was polite but not very forthcoming and barely looked at him as I didn't want him to think I was interested. He asked if he could buy me the drink. I thanked him but said I was fine. He insisted. I said I would rather buy my own drink, thanks. This persisted. I was getting increasingly frosty. The barman came over with my drink and the guy forced money on him before I could. I, pretty pissed off now, thanked him again but said I would rather he hadn't done that. I picked up the drink and started to walk away- only for him to grab my arm, pull me back and try to kiss me! I asked him what the **** he thought he was doing, whereupon he got nasty and, still gripping my arm, announced that I had led him on by accepting a drink from him and I was nothing but a slut. I was really intimidated, pulled away and went back to my friends. He tried to follow me, still grabbing at my arm but I lost him in the crowd. This is far from being a one-off occurence.

Next time something like that happened, would I tell the guy to **** off before it got to that stage?? Of course I would.

I love that the men complaining on this thread see no connection between their attitudes to women and women's subsequent attitudes to them! Your reasoning, and the pathetic comeback lines, imply that you had only went over for a friendly chat, like, yet the only reason you approched them in the first place is that you fancied them and were trying it it on- which any woman is entitled to reject in any way she sees fit. You don't go over to be friendly therefore she is not required to be friendly back. You go because you want something that she, whatever you might think, is not asking for and is under no obligation to provide!

You show yourselves up when you act like arseholes and only encourage that woman to be more decisively dismissive to the next guy who tries it.

Man: "How's it goin there, love?"
Woman: "Go away"
Man: "Get back in your ****ing box then you moonpig/ slut/ ****...blah blah blah, how dare you, blah blah blah, be bloody grateful I'm talking to you, blah blah blah, ugly bitch, I wouldn't touch you anyway, blah blah, I'm such a man, me"
Woman (thinks): Yep, what a wanker.