The M50 Barrier Free Tolling Thread

Toto Wolfcastle

Bond-007 wrote: »

My opinion would be they would have severe problems making it stand up on the basis of the existing signage.
I suspect they will amend the signs when they get an ass kicking in court.

I look forward to it.

Seth Brundle

Bond-007 wrote: »

More propaganda to scare the little people into paying.

So 25 have accepted their fate. Of course they don't say how many are being fought on various points of law.

You seem to have a good grasp of the legalities of it all.
Is it easy for them to raise a summons? Presumably they need to specify the specific offence being broken and make reference to the specific legislation before the court will grant one.
Assuming this is so, how will they get the summons?

Our man in Havana

Very easy.

All they do is type up the summonses and take them down to the courthouse and pay the €18 stamp fee, get them signed and you have a valid summons. The clerk will fill in the hearing dates, sign the summonses and apply the fee stamps. The summons will specify what they are alleging and what remedies they are seeking i.e. money.

All that eflow do then is send a photocopy of the summons by registered post to the defendant. During the time between serving the summons and the court date the matter may be settled and no court hearing will be necessary. If the defendant defends, eflow have to return the original summons to the court. It is then put on the list for hearing on that date.

Blanchguy

Are the tag company easytrip short of money or something? They charged me my monthly admin fee for May at 23.59 on the 29th of May then hit me again on the 1st of June. It's only €1.22 but I'm sure it adds up. Anyone else notice this?

stevekay

just come across this (very long) thread. must say, saw the newspaper few weeks ago about customer service getting better and didn't believe it. I reported problem just after christmas about my tag and never got a call back despite repeated attempts to get through to the call centre to chase it. called again Monday out of desperation, got straight through to a lovely lady who solved the problem. I nearly fell over. not sure what the change is the eFlow has made, but it seems to be working :pac:

Our man in Havana

It is working for now, but for how much longer?

sneakyST

ok so we have had many problems with eflow but this one is a new one.

The missus went through the toll and forgot to pay the toll. Fine. In the post came the fine but it recorded only one way not both journeys. So the wife rang to pay and said the fine should be for two journeys (this was to save hassle in the long run). She paid the tolls and both €3 fines. Great. Sorted...errr no...

Today a €40 fine lands in the mailbox. The wife rings and this is where it gets bizarre.....
They stated that the toll payed(& fine) for the second journey couldnt be allocated against that journey and was being held against any future journeys, so the €40 fine was justified! The wife says ok but Im leaving the country in a few weeks (which we are) and wont be using the toll bridge again. Round the houses this went and finally she paid another €6 and agreed to accept a cheque back for the €6 paid for the toll and fine on the second journey. The agreed to waive the fine of €40 .... what a waste of time and resources.

*becky*

hey another ex employee here if uv any questions

Seth Brundle

I'm looking at the bylaws pdf (from page 69) and it defines the Applicable Toll as:

“Applicable Toll” subject to Regulation 15.3, means, at any time and in respect of each User/Vehicle Class, the toll determined by the Authority
(inclusive of indexation, value added tax and rounding) to be
chargeable in respect of such User/Vehicle Class provided that such
Applicable Toll shall not exceed the Maximum Toll applicable to
such User/Vehicle Class at such time.

On the eflow site, it claims that VAT is not applicable to the tolls
http://www.eflow.ie/tolls/index.htm

Am I missing something or is this governed by higher legislation?

Our man in Havana

VAT is not applicable to M50 tolls but the legislation is framed in case VAT is ever imposed in the future.

Carawaystick

There was an eu court case several years ago which determined vat should be added to tolls, round about the time of the euro changeover, which is why the westlink toll rocketed up in price at the time - Different rocketing up in price since the state bought ntr out though, they went from 1.65 to 3 euros.... ex VAT.

unkel

Carawaystick wrote: »

There was an eu court case several years ago which determined vat should be added to tolls, round about the time of the euro changeover

Indeed! The toll was 80 pence and when the EU forced Ireland to charge VAT at the luxury rate on tolls, it should have gone up to 96 pence, but this was nicely rounde up to a pound. This was obviously before the euro changeover!

Seth Brundle

Thats what I had though - so eflow.ie is incorrect!

Seth Brundle

Incidentally, I went through the gantrys twice on Friday and yet again forgot to pay and now I'm fupped if I'm paying the fine.

Anyway, seeing as this bee has been in my bonnet for a while, I called the NRA and raised the issue with someone in the PPP department. They claim that they or a colleague will call me back. Should they do so, I'll let you know.

Our man in Havana

A forest of paper is winging its way to you now.

Seth Brundle

Bond-007 wrote: »

A forest of paper is winging its way to you now.

Good! Bring it on!

Carawaystick

unkel wrote: »

Indeed! The toll was 80 pence and when the EU forced Ireland to charge VAT at the luxury rate on tolls, it should have gone up to 96 pence, but this was nicely rounde up to a pound. This was obviously before the euro changeover!

that pound converted to Eur1.27 which got rounded up to 1.30, and then there was the rampant inflation which brought it up to 2 euros in a few years.

Seth Brundle

You are also omitting the "we won't increase toll prices when barrier free tolling comes in" toll increases!

unkel

Carawaystick wrote: »

that pound converted to Eur1.27 which got rounded up to 1.30, and then there was the rampant inflation which brought it up to 2 euros in a few years.

Yup, right again. The rouding up was very controversial as the government had pretty much guaranteed us that the euro conversion would not be "inflationary" as in businesses should not round up the prices

And the increases then were from 1.30 to 1.50 to 1.80 to 2.00 over the next few years since 2002 iirc

waves

Got a courtesy call from the solicitors handling the fines and they tell me that a summons will be issued shortly.

Now, I don't live at that address anymore so there's no way I can sign for it... if my folks do, what happens then? The Gardai usually just leave my parking fines with them.

Secondly, what if I say that I posted a cheque to them and that I presumed that it was paid? Things get lost in the post.

The solicitors did say that it could effect my credit rating etc etc if it wasn't paid.

Our man in Havana

Now, I don't live at that address anymore so there's no way I can sign for it... if my folks do, what happens then?

They then have good service and can proceed to court. Then it is your problem.

The solicitors did say that it could effect my credit rating etc etc if it wasn't paid.

Lies.

Turner

Tell your parents not to sign anything.

waves

Bond-007 wrote: »

They then have good service and can proceed to court. Then it is your problem.

Lies.

So if I tell them to sign for nothing for me then I should be in the clear? Do they actually have to sign for it or just take possession of it?

Sorry for the Questions but I haven't a clue about this - can't believe that the fine is €143

Our man in Havana

It is debatable whether it is a fine or not.

If your parents refuse to sign for it, eflows local solicitors will simply make an application to a judge to allow service by ordinary pre-paid post. All eflow need do is then post the summons to you by regular post.

All it will do is delay them by a few weeks.

Seth Brundle

I have sent the following to Sue, Leggit & Run:

Hi

I was wondering if you could answer the following queries for some research that I'm completing:

1. what specific legislation covers the provision for fines for non payment of the M50 toll?
2. what happens if a toll and fine remains unpaid?
3. Can non payment (and any subsequent court appearance) affect ones credit rating?
4. How many summonses have been issued to date?
5. How many successful convictions have been achieved against M50 toll non-payers?

Many thanks
me

I'm curious to see their response. I'm more concerned with #1 and should I receive a response, I will let you know.

junkyard

From the looks of it they're going to make a lot more money from fines and penalties than they'll ever make on tolls, it's a complete joke that we still have to pay for this anyway. The corruption in this country is unreal and everyone just seems to accept it.:rolleyes:

Seth Brundle

junkyard wrote: »

From the looks of it they're going to make a lot more money from fines and penalties than they'll ever make on tolls, it's a complete joke that we still have to pay for this anyway.

I'm not [paying and hopefully we can ensure that those who have had fines extorted from them will be repaid every cent.

junkyard wrote: »

The corruption in this country is unreal and everyone just seems to accept it.:rolleyes:

Not quite everyone!

(coincidentally watching Prime Time where Lenihan was caught lying)

junkyard

kbannon wrote: »

I'm not [paying and hopefully we can ensure that those who have had fines extorted from them will be repaid every cent.

Not quite everyone!

(coincidentally watching Prime Time where Lenihan was caught lying)

Good man, i'm due a refund too so, thieving b@stards!! I thought that's what Lenihan did for a living, just like the rest of his family? I see he's trying to pass the buck to Cowen now as well for all our woes. Fianna Fail looks like a happy place to be at the moment, there are so many knives out at the moment Newbridge cutlery should be tendering!!:pac:

DubTony

kbannon wrote: »

Thats what I had though - so eflow.ie is incorrect!

eh .. no, it seems not.

There was an issue with trucking companies who asked about how they would now claim VAT back, as their drivers always got a receipt at the window. It seems the vat rule mysteriously disappeared, and vat is no longer chargeable on the toll. I believe the rate for commercial vehicles came down, but not for private cars.

... the mind is currently boggling ...

Seth Brundle

so I see
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2008/0813/1218477437745.html