The M50 Barrier Free Tolling Thread

cormie

Would a helicopter be able to carry the gantry away if you cut it at the right place at 3am I wonder :P

Anyone have a private helicopter and a con saw?

Mr CJ

markpb wrote: »

If people suddenly dropped to 5pm on a motorway to save €2.50 on a toll, you'd find the charges for dangerous driving and increased insurance premium would offset the toll



They contain both tag readers and cameras to capture the reg plate on the rear of the car. If you could jam the signal from your tag, you'd have successfully managed to increase the charge from €2.50 to €3.

Great ideas though

Hey,

Dont forget grid lock traffic occurs from other drivers breaking a bit then the one behind slowing more and so on untill it becomes stationary, a classic example of this is them complete tossers that slow down a bit just to look at a garda car pulled in the hard shoulder, after you go past the road is clear!

The other thing I mentioned about a jamming signal, I should of making it more clear, it would be pointless jamming the signal from your tag as this would be like not having a tag, what I meant was, if the camera devices mounted on the gantry are wireless then any signals from these could be jammed. but I would pretty much be sure that these are hard wired!

I am just trying to find out ways to beat the system! I feel like blowing up the god dam thing just makes me sick! I would not mind but I hardly ever use it! if nobody used it, they would be forced to close it down! it worked in Scotland!

Martyr

well, you could hire the A-Team to re-program all the tags remotely, (because they can be, unauthenticated), set to random numbers thus confusing the system..atleast suspending its operation.

I love it when a plan comes together..

Mr CJ

markpb wrote: »

If people suddenly dropped to 5pm on a motorway to save €2.50 on a toll, you'd find the charges for dangerous driving and increased insurance premium would offset the toll



They contain both tag readers and cameras to capture the reg plate on the rear of the car. If you could jam the signal from your tag, you'd have successfully managed to increase the charge from €2.50 to €3.

Great ideas though

By the way I thought the cameras get the front reg plate of the car?

Mr CJ

Average Joe wrote: »

well, you could hire the A-Team to re-program all the tags remotely, (because they can be, unauthenticated), set to random numbers thus confusing the system..atleast suspending its operation.

I love it when a plan comes together..

Actually that is a good idea!!

Are the tags RFID? These can be programmed wireless cant they?
If so what would happen if something happened to all the eflow tags in peoples cars, they suddenly stopped working???? you would have alot of chaos for the NRA, I love it!!

I love it when a plan comes together too

cormie

So who are the elite amongst us that have the know how for this?

Sizzler

Anybody tempted to use the M50 now and not bother their hoop paying to see what will actually happen ? A social experiment of sorts

LEIN

I wonder what speed you would have to be doing for the reg to be fuzzy on camera system

Mr CJ

Sizzler wrote: »

Anybody tempted to use the M50 now and not bother their hoop paying to see what will actually happen ? A social experiment of sorts

Yes, but I never hardly use it! I have no intentions of paying, I would let them take me to court & see what happens. I think most of yes are mad all new systems have glitches I wrecken loads would get away with it if they did not pay!

I will always blame the 1st people who went out & bought the tags! if nobody got any tags & just went through it they could not bring every single person to court!!

Sure is there not a problem now with the nra finding out if its legal for them to use the car registration database?

They may not even be able to bill us the robbing b*******

I think the Ombudsman should be contacted & an official complaint be made that the government have broken the law by over charging 21% They said there will be no increase.... there bloody is!

L1011

Its legal for them to use the database; and tags existed a LONG time before eFlow did.

How have the Government broken the law? Explain, please.

tinkerbell

People should actually check their eflow accounts after they use the M50. I used it on Sat evening going over northside and then coming back southside. So it should've deducted €4 from my account (my tag did beep). Logged on Sunday and it only said I went through the toll once.

Rang up eflow and said I had gone through it twice and wasn't charged for one time and I don't want to be getting some big fine in the post and yer man was like "uhhh don't worry, you are registered with us, it's all ok" and I was like "so what about my unpaid toll?" and he ran off to a manager, came back "it's ok" so I was like "so I'm getting a free toll then?!" and he goes "don't worry about it!"

HUH? I told them that there would be trouble if I got a fine in the post after I rang them up about it and they told me not to do anything!

L1011

I seriously doubt anyone who's video or tag registered and has a 'missing' toll will get a fine in the post! If an audit notices you went through without being charged they'll just charge you the normal fee after the fact - as they have all your details.

As goes 'missing' tolls, even the M1 loses my car occasionally (tag, obviously), as well as one time taking a few days (and coming through on the next months bill) to charge me.

Mr CJ

tinkerbell wrote: »

People should actually check their eflow accounts after they use the M50. I used it on Sat evening going over northside and then coming back southside. So it should've deducted €4 from my account (my tag did beep). Logged on Sunday and it only said I went through the toll once.

Rang up eflow and said I had gone through it twice and wasn't charged for one time and I don't want to be getting some big fine in the post and yer man was like "uhhh don't worry, you are registered with us, it's all ok" and I was like "so what about my unpaid toll?" and he ran off to a manager, came back "it's ok" so I was like "so I'm getting a free toll then?!" and he goes "don't worry about it!"

HUH? I told them that there would be trouble if I got a fine in the post after I rang them up about it and they told me not to do anything!

Dont be getting worried if its not working, if you registered & are fully topped up & get a bill in the door, tell them you will take them to court & take there heads off play them at there own game!

Martyr

can anyone confirm the contents of the RFID tag with whats in the pdf doc at the end of this post?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055352773

This is what they use in the u.s, there are some interesting stories about it.

Mr CJ

MYOB wrote: »

Its legal for them to use the database; and tags existed a LONG time before eFlow did.

How have the Government broken the law? Explain, please.

This link should tell you
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2008/0813/1218477437745.html

They have officially said there will be no increase, there is an increase!

Is this not against the law??

We are in a bad time we need to keep business in Ireland now the way the economy is what the hell are the government doing to give an insentive to stay? this stupid tolling is not helping!

It is only the matter of time big companies will pull out because of all the cr** going on & the cost of logistics is not helping things!

For your other comment read below, takin from the Tribune news

"Data protection body to examine NRA's motorist information



The government's privacy watchdog is to investigate whether the National Roads Authority's access to the names, addresses and other personal information of car owners who fail to pay the M50 road toll is in breach of data protection laws.



"Information related to the NRA's access to the National Vehicle Database has come to the attention of this office and we are pursuing the matter," a spokesman for the Office of the Data Protection Commissioner said last week.



One concern centres on whether the personal information being sought from the database is being used for its intended purpose – to recover unpaid toll payments. It is understood that the queries also relate to who exactly has access to the driver database and whether that person is registered with the office of the Data Protection Commissioner as required."

iTroll

Bummer on company car people whose bosses now know when they go through the toll

L1011

Mr CJ wrote: »

They have officially said there will be no increase, there is an increase!

Is this not against the law??

No.

As goes the other stuff, I can absolutely guarantee you it'll be found that they're allowed use the data. If it was found they weren't, there'd be a quickly passed amendment to the data protection law.

markpb

MYOB wrote: »

No.

As goes the other stuff, I can absolutely guarantee you it'll be found that they're allowed use the data. If it was found they weren't, there'd be a quickly passed amendment to the data protection law.

Alternatively they could do like everyone else and apply to the courts (through their solicitors) to have the fine sent to the cars owner without giving their details to the NRA. What a fantastic waste of money that would be (unless you're a solicitor).

I.S.T.

Heroditas wrote: »

However, the queues for the M50 northbound lane on the N4 used to start way back near the Deadman's Inn. However, those queues weren't there this morning.
Apparently a guy on the radio said it took him 30mins to get to work this morning instead of the usual 70-90mins.

Might be a good time to remind ourselves of this report comissioned by the NRA:

An M50 Operational Assessment Report, undertaken by UK transport consultants MVA, has found that the majority of delays on the M50 are caused by the limited capacity of the motorway and the design of the interchanges, not the toll plaza itself.

Mike Slinn, Director of MVA said: 'We found that the delays on the motorway are caused by congestion on the motorway generally and not the toll plaza.

'The lack of capacity on the existing motorway and the design of the interchanges, combined with high traffic volumes, determine journey time and not the toll plaza. We believe, therefore, that the removal of the toll plaza would not improve the capacity of the M50.'

Heroditas

I hope Mike Slinn is reading this thread. Yes Mike, of COURSE it was the stupid drivers all along. :rolleyes:

Stevie Dakota

Too true, anyone who lives around there knows it was not the interchange, it was the feckin toll booths, I can't believe an expensive report said otherwise, someone should get their asses kicked. The whole thing is an ongoing disgrace.

markpb

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

Too true, anyone who lives around there knows it was not the interchange, it was the feckin toll booths, I can't believe an expensive report said otherwise, someone should get their asses kicked. The whole thing is an ongoing disgrace.

Won't it be hard to judge if he's wrong or not since some of the junctions have been upgraded _and_ the toll removed? Also, isn't it likely that both the toll and the junctions were contributing to the problems?

L1011

The junction that apparently caused the Northbound problems hasn't been upgraded (N3) - although theres extra lanes for it now...

ninty9er

Victor_M wrote: »

Maybe by managing their cash flow, plugging some of the leaks and making the civil service work for their money, instead of sucker punching Joe Public every time they need a fresh cash injection.

The state didn't pay for the road in the first place. NTR did, so they effectively bought a road off NTR that they couldn't afford at the time. By keeping the toll they're now paying for its upkeep. Westlink isn't the only toll road in the country, and many countries charge higher tolls in more loacations (France being a prime example).

Would you rather we kept the barriers and the tolls and fed the profit directly to a private company?

Lord Nikon

The government should stop the tolls after the 600m euro has been paid off. Butthey government would never let this happen, tolls are here to stay.

I say that if people stuck to phoning in the next day just before 8pm, the whole system would stress out under the pressure.

ninty9er

neuromancer wrote: »

I say that if people stuck to phoning in the next day just before 8pm, the whole system would stress out under the pressure.

They'll have an automated system in place within a week. Either way you're putting these people out of work.

Lord Nikon

Loss of jobs for people is never good, and I feel for these people, I do. But if it doesn't effect me directly, I doesn't bother me too much.

Victor_M

ninty9er wrote: »

The state didn't pay for the road in the first place. NTR did, so they effectively bought a road off NTR that they couldn't afford at the time. By keeping the toll they're now paying for its upkeep. Westlink isn't the only toll road in the country, and many countries charge higher tolls in more locations (France being a prime example).

Would you rather we kept the barriers and the tolls and fed the profit directly to a private company?

You mean to tell me that the toll covers the upkeep of the bridge only??????
you have got to be joking unless the surface is made from Saffron and costs 80 odd million a year to replace than you are sorely mistaken.

As for the rest of the M50, I seem to mistakenly believe that our annual road tax was part paying for the up keep of the roads.

Government short sightedness has led to this problem, they should have borrowed the money for the road in the first place, it would have cost us all a hell of a lot less in the long run. NTR should never have been allowed milk it for as long as they did, you can't blame them for reluctantly letting go of their cash cow.

Good riddance to the barriers any way, there is no way the traffic will be worse without them.

Speaking of France, why the hell don't they have one booth in each direction like they do in France, Germany, USA etc etc, for people to pay cash as they are passing through once of twice a year as opposed to the convoluted ridiculous system they have put in place.

ninty9er

Victor_M wrote: »

You mean to tell me that the toll covers the upkeep of the bridge only??????
you have got to be joking unless the surface is made from Saffron and costs 80 odd million a year to replace than you are sorely mistaken.

As for the rest of the M50, I seem to mistakenly believe that our annual road tax was part paying for the up keep of the roads.

Government short sightedness has led to this problem, they should have borrowed the money for the road in the first place, it would have cost us all a hell of a lot less in the long run. NTR should never have been allowed milk it for as long as they did, you can't blame them for reluctantly letting go of their cash cow.

Good riddance to the barriers any way, there is no way the traffic will be worse without them.

Speaking of France, why the hell don't they have one booth in each direction like they do in France, Germany, USA etc etc, for people to pay cash as they are passing through once of twice a year as opposed to the convoluted ridiculous system they have put in place.

Becaue you'd have the inconvenience of employing 6 people. The scale doesn't justify it. I don't know how it works ion France, but I have to assume the roads are all state operated, therefore meaning the staff administration is worthwhile across all the locations.

L1011

The tolls are also 1000% or more of the Westlink toll in many cases!