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Atheism: how can you be so sure?

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    #92
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Malari wrote: »
    Exactly. Even if we were all proved wrong, I wouldn't regret a thing. I still wouldn't feel like I should have been worshipping some being who was invisible. In fact, I might have a thing or two to say to him instead or being thankful!

    Not enough evidence, God! Not enough evidence.


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    #93
    Malari
    Registered Users Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭Malari


    Zillah wrote: »
    Not enough evidence, God! Not enough evidence.

    Good old Bertrand ;)


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    #94
    Marcus.Aurelius
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭Marcus.Aurelius


    Summer Glau wrote: »
    Particularly for someone [god] who is suppose to be very "forgiving" and "loves all of his children". The idea of "praise me or end up in eternal damnation for ever" really comes across as something very childish, particularly for a supposed being of super national and extravagant power and knowledge.

    That's assuming mainstream Christianity is to be believed. Until you actually research for yourself into other religions its a moot point to dismiss it out of hand based solely on your experience of the common Catholic church. Lots of religious groups that would be called christians do not believe in eternal torment or resurrection only to heaven or purgatory. e.g. Adventists & Jehovah's Witnesses, among others.

    The central issue surrounding Christianity is separating non-scriptural dogma, which profoundly clouds the catholic church and accurate scriptural interpretation in light of the whole Bible in harmony, rather than observing single passages here and there and twisting them to your own ideals and traditions.

    It's like cars. Your Fiat Punto breaks down. Thus all cars break down and are just as useless as your Punto. Its a silly generalisation and a poor excuse to tar them all with the same brush.


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    #95
    sickpuppy32
    Registered Users Posts: 507 ✭✭✭sickpuppy32


    sean mocriff wrote a great easy to read book called "God: a users guide", it goes through the top20 beliefs from Christianity to Zoroastrianism and also has a section on atheism and agnosticism , well worth a read


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    #96
    failsafe
    Registered Users Posts: 569 ✭✭✭failsafe


    For me I base my beliefs around probability (although not consciously with a calculator!:D). From all the evidence that is present to me I can deduce that the probability of there being a personal God out there somewhere is very, very small. Although you're correct in saying that I can't be sure, I still have no problem calling myself an Atheist. I feel the same way about God as I do about the tooth fairy, or ghosts, or pixies or elves, the probability is so low that it doesn't merit me wasting my time thinking "what if I'm wrong/how can I be so sure?"

    In this regard my a-theism isn't really a "thing" that I'm sure about, it's just the fact that I have an absence of belief in a God/creator. I'm also a-fairyist, and a-ghostist, but so are most people, so I don't have to describe myself with those names as I'm in the majority.

    When people ask me "how can you be so sure there is no God?” My best answer is "why limit that to God"? How can you be so sure there is no poltergeist? How can you be so sure that the world wasn't created by three golden spirits?? The truth is we can't, but it wouldn't be practical to speculate on all the things we can't be 100% sure about, as it's far more useful to spend out time contemplating on the probable and discovering the unknown!


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    #97
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    kelly1 wrote: »
    I just "know" that it's true.
    And I'm currently sharing an office with a bloke who just "knows" that he's speaking with Allah five times a day.

    It's a very short trip from "just knowing" to believing something for no better reason than because you want it to be true.


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    #98
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    axer wrote: »
    How do you know he is loving, merciful and good beyond words? You are just going on what others said that he is?
    That is what I am convinced of having read the bible, the lives of the saints and various Christian books on spirituality. I can also see and feel the effects of God in my life. How things change for the better when I do God's will and pray. I've had lots of prayers answered. I can honestly say that I've felt God's grace working in me and it's a wonderful feeling.
    axer wrote: »
    No arrogance would be thinking we are better but you seem to suggest that god is better than us or thinks he/she/it is better than us - that seems arrogant to me.
    How could humbling ourselves before God possibly be arrogant? It's arrogant the think there couldn't possibly be a being better than man? We're not doing a very good job of building a peaceful world are we?
    axer wrote: »
    If I was to put my faith (a word I hate because it basically is blindly believing something) in a god - who is to say the christian god is the actually real god?
    Good question. I think it basically boils down to whether we believe the message of Jesus in the gospel or not. There is no way to prove that Jesus is who He say He is. We can either trust Him or say no. As I've said before I don't just intellectually believe in Jesus, I have an inner conviction that He is the one and only Son of God. It's God's grace that gives us this knowledge. It's a strong feeling of certainty in the soul. I don't know what else to say really.
    axer wrote: »
    I am thinking religion is only about hope? i.e. believe whatever keeps you happy type of thing. That doesn't make it real - it just keeps you happy.
    It's about doing God's will. And doing God's will is the way to true freedom and happiness. Of that I am absolutely convinced. Sin is slavery.
    axer wrote: »
    How do we know gods ways? by what other people/humans said?

    Yes I am. I think many people are corrupt and will change the message (if it existed) to suit themselves. This has happened time and time again in history.
    God has always used prophets to communicate His plans to us. If you accept that God is almighty, you must surely accept that God is capable of communicating the truth to us and to those who seek it. God has not abandoned us to find out own way out of the maze.
    axer wrote: »
    How do I know jesus revealed the truth? If jesus were alive today - would you agree that he would most likely be in a psychiatry pumped with medication? I don't mean that in a disrespectful way but I do think it is possible. So does that mean there could be more prophets in mental institutes around the world?
    Do you doubt Jesus' goodness? Surely He is widely acknowledged to be the most loving and compassionate man who ever walked the earth?? And then voluntarily and willingly died a horrible death without protesting His innocence! Even a mad man wouldn't do that! That's a bit exceptional, don't you think?
    axer wrote: »
    If the church is a true guide to god then is god a sinner?
    Too cynical. As Jesus said, God came to save sinners, not the righteous. The Church is full of people who are very aware of their sin and how it offends God. Jesus never promised that the members of the Church would be free from sin even though He commanded us to keep away from sin. God knows our weaknesses but He is constantly calling us to love like Jesus loved us. Jesus did however promise that the Church would never be destroyed.
    axer wrote: »
    How do I know they have authority? Just because they say so?
    No because Jesus said so but of course this depends on you faith in Jesus.
    axer wrote: »
    How many of them met and personally saw what jesus did? From what I read it was only mark and another person or that some were based on others. I have often heard stories from people who claimed to have witnessed something only to find they were either exaggerating or just plain lying. So why should I believe these people?
    Jesus first of all called 12 apostles and after that He had heaps of disciples. Many of these disciples initially followed John the Baptist because the thought he was the Messiah but John set the straight and the began to follow Jesus instead. Jesus was constantly surrounded by crowds who recognized the truth in Him.
    axer wrote: »
    Why does he want us to love him?
    Because He wants what's best for us. All goodness comes from God regardless of whether we believe in God or not. It is by loving God that we cooperate in His plans for us which leads to our ultimate purpose of happiness. He deserves to be loved because God is our source and out destiny.
    axer wrote: »
    I can't imagine anything can give me tangible proof which is what I seek.
    My advice would be not to give up, keep looking. "Seek and you shall find". Some people who go back to God receive tangible proof of His existence but I think it's rare enough. In my case, I got a big injection of faith.
    axer wrote: »
    So if we do good it is really god that is doing good? does that mean we don't have free will?
    Yes it is the Holy Spirit that inspires us to do good in the first place. People just don't realize how much we depend of God. As Jesus said, "you are the branches, I am the Vine".
    axer wrote: »
    So we must be willing to do his will in order to earn god's grace.
    We don't earn God's grace - Jesus did that for us. Grace is freely given by God as a gift when God sees that we are willing to do His will. We must cooperate with grace if we are to continue receiving it.
    axer wrote: »
    And how do we know they didnt just make it up?
    I suppose the problem is that there are too many false prophets and the difficulty is in deciding which if any are truthful. But I think it goes back again to faith in God's providence. I believe God has revlealed the truth to us via His prophets and especially Jesus. Sorry, I used the dreaded faith word!
    axer wrote: »
    I think many PEOPLE are incapable of delivering the truth to us without corruption. It happens everyday and it has happened right through history.
    Again lack of faith in divine providence and God's power.
    axer wrote: »
    So god has already answered our prayers?
    Do we have free will if god can control us with the hold spirit?
    Not sure how you came to that conclusion. God answers prayers made with good intentions e.g. praying for humility, greater love of Jesus etc. He not going to grant anything which will result in our moving away from Him. he will grant prayers that are compatible with His will for us. So praying to win the lottery is bound to be a waste of time unless you promise to give it all away to the poor.

    Phew!


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    #99
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    kelly1 wrote: »
    How could humbling ourselves before God possibly be arrogant?
    If he/she/it thinks we are lower than him/her/it then they are being arrogant.
    kelly1 wrote: »
    We're not doing a very good job of building a peaceful world are we?
    Exactly why I don't believe what everyone says or writes because there are a lot of selfish people out there looking after number one.
    kelly1 wrote: »
    Good question. I think it basically boils down to whether we believe the message of Jesus in the gospel or not. There is no way to prove that Jesus is who He say He is. We can either trust Him or say no. As I've said before I don't just intellectually believe in Jesus, I have an inner conviction that He is the one and only Son of God. It's God's grace that gives us this knowledge. It's a strong feeling of certainty in the soul. I don't know what else to say really.
    So you just believe his word as truth just because he apparently said so.
    kelly1 wrote: »
    It's about doing God's will. And doing God's will is the way to true freedom and happiness. Of that I am absolutely convinced. Sin is slavery.
    My point is that if the church is a guide to god and the church sins then the guide is inherently flawed or else god is a sinner. If the church can sin in many ways which you agree it has then what makes you think they haven't made up many of the things they call the truth?
    kelly1 wrote: »
    God has always used prophets to communicate His plans to us. If you accept that God is almighty, you must surely accept that God is capable of communicating the truth to us and to those who seek it. God has not abandoned us to find out own way out of the maze.
    I believe many people are flawed thus I cannot trust that they will not create or change the message to suit themselves.
    kelly1 wrote: »
    Do you doubt Jesus' goodness? Surely He is widely acknowledged to be the most loving and compassionate man who ever walked the earth?? And then voluntarily and willingly died a horrible death without protesting His innocence! Even a mad man wouldn't do that! That's a bit exceptional, don't you think?
    I have an even more important question for you that is a major reason why I do not believe Jesus was the son of god (I cannot doubt his goodness since I don't know him) or the bible etc and that is do you doubt the power of mental illness? People throughout history and even today die/let themselves be killed/tortured because they believe something is true due to mental illness. So yes, a mad man would do that. People with mental illnesses are generally the most carismatic people because they believe what they are saying.
    kelly1 wrote: »
    Too cynical. As Jesus said, God came to save sinners, not the righteous. The Church is full of people who are very aware of their sin and how it offends God. Jesus never promised that the members of the Church would be free from sin even though He commanded us to keep away from sin. God knows our weaknesses but He is constantly calling us to love like Jesus loved us. Jesus did however promise that the Church would never be destroyed.
    Then what is to say that sinners in the church have not created/changed the message to suit themselves throughout history.
    kelly1 wrote: »
    No because Jesus said so but of course this depends on you faith in Jesus.
    It depends firstly whether I believe peoples accounts of what he said thus believing people whom I do not know. Even if he said so then who is to say he has to authority from god (if there is a god) to give authority to the church? It all depends on whether I blindly believe in firstly whether he was telling the truth and secondly whether peoples accounts of what he said were accurate.
    kelly1 wrote: »
    Jesus first of all called 12 apostles and after that He had heaps of disciples. Many of these disciples initially followed John the Baptist because the thought he was the Messiah but John set the straight and the began to follow Jesus instead. Jesus was constantly surrounded by crowds who recognized the truth in Him.
    Just because people followed him doesnt mean he was speaking the truth. It just means he had carisma and that people were more than likely just looking for something to follow.
    kelly1 wrote: »
    Because He wants what's best for us. All goodness comes from God regardless of whether we believe in God or not. It is by loving God that we cooperate in His plans for us which leads to our ultimate purpose of happiness. He deserves to be loved because God is our source and out destiny.
    You didnt answer why we have to love him. You just said that he deserves to be loved and maybe someone told us to love him. If god truely wants whats best for us he wouldn't put it conditionally i.e. you must love me first and then...
    kelly1 wrote: »
    My advice would be not to give up, keep looking. "Seek and you shall find". Some people who go back to God receive tangible proof of His existence but I think it's rare enough. In my case, I got a big injection of faith.
    I will keep looking but I won't keep looking with blinkers on. I am open to all opinions until I have tangible proof - which I doubt I will ever get.
    kelly1 wrote: »
    Yes it is the Holy Spirit that inspires us to do good in the first place. People just don't realize how much we depend of God. As Jesus said, "you are the branches, I am the Vine".
    So we cannot do good without the holy spirit? I do good (or at least I try) all the time - does that mean I am constantly inspired by the holy spirit or is it just my morals which I developed growing up?
    kelly1 wrote: »
    We don't earn God's grace - Jesus did that for us. Grace is freely given by God as a gift when God sees that we are willing to do His will. We must cooperate with grace if we are to continue receiving it.
    but we must be willing to do his will in order to get it. That sounds like earning to me i.e. it is conditional.
    kelly1 wrote: »
    I suppose the problem is that there are too many false prophets and the difficulty is in deciding which if any are truthful. But I think it goes back again to faith in God's providence. I believe God has revlealed the truth to us via His prophets and especially Jesus. Sorry, I used the dreaded faith word!
    That is what it all boils down to. Do I believe not only the account of what jesus supposedly said and do I believe he was even telling the truth. I have come across many people in my life who have told me things which are exaggerated or even complete lies when I looked into them further. It is not that I do not believe there was a jesus (i am sure there was a person - whether he was the son of god/prophet or not is another story) or even that there is a chance (no matter how slight) that there is a god. It is that I cannot verify the messenger because I know many people are flawed and can either create or modify things to suit themselves AND that people are subjective.
    kelly1 wrote: »
    Again lack of faith in divine providence and God's power.
    It is lack of faith in all humans to be completely honest and objective which I think is impossible.
    kelly1 wrote: »
    Not sure how you came to that conclusion. God answers prayers made with good intentions e.g. praying for humility, greater love of Jesus etc. He not going to grant anything which will result in our moving away from Him. he will grant prayers that are compatible with His will for us. So praying to win the lottery is bound to be a waste of time unless you promise to give it all away to the poor.
    When I was younger I prayed that children of my age would not be starving in Africa etc. etc. They are still starving.

    I guess thanks for at least trying to answer my questions but it must boil down to that dreaded word "faith" which to me is believing in the incorruptability, lack of selfishness, the lack of mental illness and objectivity in humans. I have never met a human being in my life that did not possess at least one of the above traits so how can we trust that the message has not been subjected to or created as a result of one of those traits? All I know is that I cannot.


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    #100
    aidan24326
    Registered Users Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    Marcus.Aurelius wrote: »
    That's assuming mainstream Christianity is to be believed. Until you actually research for yourself into other religions its a moot point to dismiss it out of hand based solely on your experience of the common Catholic church. Lots of religious groups that would be called christians do not believe in eternal torment or resurrection only to heaven or purgatory. e.g. Adventists & Jehovah's Witnesses, among others.

    The central issue surrounding Christianity is separating non-scriptural dogma, which profoundly clouds the catholic church and accurate scriptural interpretation in light of the whole Bible in harmony, rather than observing single passages here and there and twisting them to your own ideals and traditions.

    All you're saying is let's choose the bits we like and ignore the other stuff. Jee what a surprise. Never heard that one before.
    kelly1 wrote: »
    We're not doing a very good job of building a peaceful world are we?

    No we're not, and your 'loving' god certainly didn't either.

    Do you doubt Jesus' goodness? Surely He is widely acknowledged to be the most loving and compassionate man who ever walked the earth?? And then voluntarily and willingly died a horrible death without protesting His innocence! Even a mad man wouldn't do that! That's a bit exceptional, don't you think?

    Sorry Noel but I have to pull you up on that one. Jesus wasn't a bad guy overall, but to say he was the most loving and compassionate man who ever lived is utterly laughable. You might want to go back and have another read of that holy book of yours. You obviously skipped a few passages.

    He deserves to be loved because God is our source and out destiny.

    Let's examine this one more closely. Let's say the christian god does exist. Does he really deserve to be loved? I'm not so sure. I'll be kind and ignore the fact that the god in the bible is a mass-murdering psycopath. We'll let that slide for now. But consider the world that this god of yours created. Like Dades pointed out earlier it's a matter of pure luck whether you're born into a comfortable existence or harsh poverty. Is that fair? Tell the starving people in places like Ethiopa and Malawi about this compassionate god who loves them so much. Tell it to all the fools who pray to a god who never listens. Even if evidence emerged now that you were right all along, and the christian god is real, I would still refuse to love or worship him because he's a cruel and evil god.
    My advice would be not to give up, keep looking. "Seek and you shall find". Some people who go back to God receive tangible proof of His existence but I think it's rare enough. In my case, I got a big injection of faith.

    Nobody has ever had tangible proof. It seems to be a common thread among theists, confusing personal subjective feelings with actual reality. They are not the same thing.

    Yes it is the Holy Spirit that inspires us to do good in the first place.

    So why not inspire everyone to do good? As they say, whence cometh evil?

    God answers prayers made with good intentions e.g. praying for humility, greater love of Jesus etc. He not going to grant anything which will result in our moving away from Him. he will grant prayers that are compatible with His will for us. So praying to win the lottery is bound to be a waste of time unless you promise to give it all away to the poor.

    So what about the god-loving clean-living person who prays, let's say, for a bit of campassion for his ill daughter, dying with leukaemia. She's only 6, hasn't had a chance at life at all, surely god in his compassion and mercy will answer these prayers? Surely? Well we all know what happens in the vast majority of cases, stonewall silence. The little girl dies and god continues to hide behind the clouds. Prayer is the surest way to waste your time, nobody's listening!

    By the way, here's a couple of choice quotes from Jesus the nice guy.
    Jesus wrote:
    Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn ‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’” Matt. 10:34-36.

    Jesus wrote:
    If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.” Luke 14: 26.


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    #101
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    Guys, that's too many points to deal with. Can we narrow it down to the essential niggling questions?


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    #102
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Guys, that's too many points to deal with. Can we narrow it down to the essential niggling questions?
    Why?

    MrP


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    #103
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    MrPudding wrote: »
    Why?

    MrP
    I'm not trying to avoid difficult quesitons. To be honest, I don't really have much time to write lengthy posts.

    Besides argument don't get properly teased out when you try to deal with too many points at the same time.


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    #104
    Marcus.Aurelius
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭Marcus.Aurelius


    aidan24326 wrote: »
    All you're saying is let's choose the bits we like and ignore the other stuff. Jee what a surprise. Never heard that one before.

    No I think you'll find I was asserting that the catholic church is rubbish. I think you'll also find that I meant you need to read it yourself and determine what's actually required of you.

    You can't just pick things you like and ignore what you don't like. God is absolute, his standards do not change. He set a role for us to follow in Christ, the catholic church corrupted all of it and changed policies thousands of time.

    Not one of which was ever properly supported by scripture.
    You can't pick a religion based on easiness of doctrine. You're only fooling yourself. To please God, you must do what he asks, not what some wishy-washy bunch of clerics tell you. Find out what he requires of you by yourself. Otherwise your comments are meaningless if you don't know the full story.

    To dismiss all religion because you dislike the popular churches is ignorant and lazy.


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    #105
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    Marcus.Aurelius wrote: »
    ...To dismiss all religion because you dislike the popular churches is ignorant and lazy.

    Whoa!! Take it easy man.


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    #106
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Marcus.Aurelius wrote: »
    To dismiss all religion because you dislike the popular churches is ignorant and lazy.
    So is it ignorant and lazy to dismiss all other religions because you like a popular one?


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    #107
    Promethean
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭Promethean


    Religion....a useless relic of a primative a violent world, it is time to discard it.... its no longer needed and only serves to fuel sectarian wars in a modern society.. our morality can survive now without tales of heaven and hell.....religion is dying out and people are finding their own spirtuality... this is a good thing...


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    #108
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Good lord, it's J C's atheist twin bother! :eek:


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    #109
    iUseVi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭iUseVi


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Good lord, it's J C's atheist twin bother! :eek:

    Not quite as smiley orientated. But the family resemblance comes out in the dots!


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    #110
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    Promethean wrote: »
    Religion....a useless relic of a primative a violent world, it is time to discard it.... its no longer needed and only serves to fuel sectarian wars in a modern society.. our morality can survive now without tales of heaven and hell.....religion is dying out and people are finding their own spirtuality... this is a good thing...

    In fairness whats with.... the dots....? Although you make a good but overstated point.


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    #111
    Promethean
    Registered Users Posts: 52 ✭✭Promethean


    ......i dunno ....why not..?


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    #112
    aidan24326
    Registered Users Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    Marcus.Aurelius wrote: »
    To dismiss all religion because you dislike the popular churches is ignorant and lazy.

    Perhaps, but that isn't my reason. I dismiss it because it's a load of nonsense, the fact I may dislike the organised popular churches is beside the point.


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    #113
    Flamed Diving
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭Flamed Diving


    axer wrote: »
    how can one commit?

    Whatever makes life easier for you, I guess. I'm not 100% sure a god/s doesn't exist. But I'm sure enough to say I don't believe in one. It's like someone asking me whether I believe Sunderland with win the Premiership next year or not. Sure its possible, but I don't believe its likely. But if you would rather not commit to whether they will win or not, well, that's up to you!


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    #114
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Guys, that's too many points to deal with. Can we narrow it down to the essential niggling questions?
    it must boil down to that dreaded word "faith" which to me is believing in the incorruptability, lack of selfishness, the lack of mental illness and objectivity in humans. I have never met a human being in my life that did not possess at least one of the above traits so how can we trust that the message has not been subjected to or created as a result of one of those traits?


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    #115
    kelly1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,026 ✭✭✭kelly1


    axer wrote: »
    it must boil down to that dreaded word "faith" which to me is believing in the incorruptability, lack of selfishness, the lack of mental illness and objectivity in humans. I have never met a human being in my life that did not possess at least one of the above traits so how can we trust that the message has not been subjected to or created as a result of one of those traits?
    Sounds like you know very little about saints and the levels of perfection they can reach through God's grace.

    You may not like the dreaded word "faith" but it's very pleasing to God. That leaves you in a difficult situation.


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    #116
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Sounds like you know very little about saints and the levels of perfection they can reach through God's grace.

    I would imagine axer has not met many saints :)

    Have you?


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    #117
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    kelly1 wrote: »
    Sounds like you know very little about saints and the levels of perfection they can reach through God's grace.

    You may not like the dreaded word "faith" but it's very pleasing to God. That leaves you in a difficult situation.
    How do you know so much about saints?

    How do we know faith is pleasing to god?


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    #118
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    axer wrote: »
    How do you know so much about saints?

    How do we know faith is pleasing to god?

    Trust me you will not get a satisfactory answer to those questions.


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    #119
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    Promethean wrote: »
    ......i dunno ....why not..?

    Because it looks like a ridiculous waste of time and it looks ridiculous aswell. :mad:


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    #120
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    kelly1 wrote: »
    You may not like the dreaded word "faith" but it's very pleasing to God.
    I still don't get why the architect behind all matter and time would really need to be 'pleased' by earth people doing stuff for him. I mean, shouldn't a mind like that have something more intellectual to occupy him?


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    #121
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    CerebralCortex wrote: »
    Trust me you will not get a satisfactory answer to those questions.
    Exactly why I am an agnostic atheist.


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