Atheism: how can you be so sure?

Zillah

kelly1 wrote: »

I'd like to know then what is the general view on point 1, i.e. does the existence of everything depend on a cause? Certainly within our universe, effect only happens with a prior cause. Are people suggesting that things operate differently in other potential universes?

And why would people believe in universes (with different laws of physics) other than our own when there is no evidence for such? Do people believe universes pop into existence without a cause?

Well I would say that it would appear that the phenomenon of cause and effect is not nearly so pervasive as we might think. On the quantum level stuff pops in and out of existence constantly with no cause. Even if we for now concede that everything must have a cause, even the universe itself, it still has nothing to do with God.

If you also then claim that God is an exception to the must have a cause rule then you've fallen into gibberish. Does not compute. The words you speak do not convey meaning.

robindch

kelly1 wrote: »

My argument is that if you believe there is a law of cause and effect, it's illogical to conclude that there is an infinte chain of cause and effect. Am I the only one this think this is an absurd notion?

Jesus and Mo dealt with this very question last Friday:

Flamed Diving

Flamed Diving wrote: »

So a belief in god is the same about the non-belief in anything. Thats fine then. I guess I am atheist as well as a-pinkelephantist. Maybe I should put in a forum request.

The Messiah has been born!!!!!!


The Messiah!!!!!!!!!

I believe!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I believe!!!!!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7951331.stm

Stercus Accidit

steve-hosting36 wrote: »

Perhaps you should simply google the fact? And that's a fairly simple example, without delving into quantum mechanics, which is even fuller of examples that break causality and in fact lots of our assumptions about how things 'should' work.

Gas, example, oxygen, is a gas due to its heat, which can be simply described as kinetic energy.

Each atom has energy in the form of kinetic energy, they are bouncing around into each other with mass and velocity, at a large scale, this is seen as a gas, with no containment, these atoms bouncing around with mass and velocity will mingle with whatever gas is around them, they mix because they have energy, kinetic energy, and no barrier to contain them.

This is simple physics, with less energy, it would be a liquid, held by gravity, even less, a solid.

Saying its caused by "god" sounds like something an alchemist or witch doctor would have said.

The Mad Hatter

There's a difference between saying 'I don't know', which I think is the position of most atheists and agnostics, and saying 'I don't know, therefore God' which seems to be what a lot of religionists want us to say.

Stercus Accidit

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

There's a difference between saying 'I don't know', which I think is the position of most atheists and agnostics, and saying 'I don't know, therefore my god, my beliefs and what I say is true' which seems to be what a lot of religionists want us to say.

fyp

Flamed Diving

I demand a Pink Elephant forum.

Respect my beliefs.

Valmont

How could you actually believe in a pink elephant? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. It's undeniable that the dragon in my basement created the universe. I'll breath some fire for you.

robindch

Flamed Diving wrote: »

I demand a Pink Elephant forum.

And a forum for Pink Elephant agnostics?

Húrin

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

The Mad Hatter wrote:

There's a difference between saying 'I don't know, and if you don't agree you're either dishonest, contemptible or stupid, *sneer*', which I think is the position of most atheists and agnostics, and saying 'I don't know, therefore my god, my beliefs and what I say is true' which seems to be what a lot of religionists want us to say.

fyp

fyp

Phototoxin

Hurin you confused me. I dont like sneery athiests but I've met about two as opposed to about a dozen sneery theists.

Can one believe there is a chance of their being a god (forgetting about the stuff added on to this supposed creator e.g. homosexuality is wrong etc) and still be an aethiest? i.e. is an aethiest just believing in something he/she cannot be 100% sure of either?

You can believe that at night sexy fairies dressed in pink flowers with little deelybopper antennae and epic boobs (for a fairy) come to steal your seed and that unless you hop up and down on one foot for 6 minutes they WILL COME FOR YOU. However while it might happen it probably doesn't. I think its absurd so I'm a fairy athiest. On the issue of a Jew-Xtn-Islam deity he may exist, however even if she does I don't particularly feel the need to worship it. So I accept that there's a possiblity of its existance but I am not sure and frankly I'm uninterested.

I have seen no proof that there is a massive lion in my attic so I'm not going to call the zoo just yet. If I hear footprints and growling then I may believe in the lions existance.

HERETIC !! ALL HAIL THE ATTIC LION !!

There's a difference between saying 'I don't know', which I think is the position of most atheists and agnostics, and saying 'I don't know, therefore God' which seems to be what a lot of religionists want us to say.

Surely by that logic any time a witness is in court and they are asked 'do you know how mr Dawkins was murder' then the witness says 'I dont know' must the court then conclude that it was God because of the 'I don't know ergo God did it' argument? It just doesn't make sense. I don't think any sensible religous people argue that to be fair.

The Mad Hatter

Húrin wrote: »

fyp

Well. That was useful.

Rev. Kitchen

If you are an omnipresent being that can create plants and animals and planets and universe's isnt it quite conceivable that you would be able to hide yourself from a bunch of glorified monkeys ??

Zillah

Kind of raises the question of "why?". The character of the Biblical God quite clearly tries to make himself known to humanity by blowing up cities, walking on water, drowning armies etc.

Oddly enough the frequency with which he makes such obviously divine manifestations has decreased in proportion to the development of science and rationalism. Funny that.

All we get these days are people claiming they speak for God. It stands to reason that a human created God would require humans to make himself known.

Galvasean

Zillah wrote: »

All we get these days are people claiming they speak for God. It stands to reason that a human created God would require humans to make himself known.

And the virgin Mary appearing in people's toast, of course she aint the only one...

aidan24326

Galvasean wrote: »

And the virgin Mary appearing in people's toast, of course she aint the only one...

Looks more like Michael Jackson to me.

Dades

aidan24326 wrote: »

Looks more like Michael Jackson to me.

I am totally seeing Michael Jackson in there too.

Nodin

Dades wrote: »

I am totally seeing Michael Jackson in there too.

My buttocks clenched similarily....

JimiTime

I can't believe how much like Michael Jackson that toast image looks.:eek:

5uspect

Its simply uncanny! :eek:

Genghiz Cohen

All Hail the Toast God Michael Jackson.
May He be always crunchy and Golden-Brown.
May the melty butter of compassion drip down from him onto us!

Zillah

Do we get tax benefits yet?

Genghiz Cohen

Zillah wrote: »

Do we get tax benefits yet?

Soon...

Calibos

Its a photoshop TBH. Its too much like MJ. I remember being fooled by the Dogs Boll@cks Jesus. I won't be fooled again!

Flamed Diving

Calibos wrote: »

Its a photoshop TBH. Its too much like MJ. I remember being fooled by the Dogs Boll@cks Jesus. I won't be fooled again!

Dogs Bollocks Jesus?

Calibos

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Dogs Bollocks Jesus?

http://nynerd.com/can-you-see-jesus/

acontadino

i used to think a world with religion made existence have greater feeling, made us humans feel closer together, but actually i changed, the fact everything in earth is related in some form is kinda humbling...i mean some say our life formed because an asteroid hit earth from outer space....its kinda special in a way. ok we're far removed from back then but i just feel more positive and its a far better option than a subjective(or maby the words objective) god. even if god did exist it would be very unsettling for me.

marti8

Galvasean wrote: »

And the virgin Mary appearing in people's toast, of course she aint the only one...

Where's his beard?

p.s: by the way, what's an agnostic atheist?! Thanks

Dades

marti8 wrote: »

p.s: by the way, what's an agnostic atheist?! Thanks

Have a read here.