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Atheism: how can you be so sure?
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Flamed Diving wrote: »Right, but when the chips are down, neither you nor I would 'cross the road'. That is all that matters. We make decisions every day based on probabilities, do we sit on the fence each time and say that it is unknowable, or do we make a firm decision? People need to make decisions in life, fence-sitting is both a useless and imaginary activity.
IMO
:P
Okay, I can see where you're coming from in light of my new-thing-learned-today. I guess not everyone regards the God question as that important, personally I wouldn't regard it as important enough to require a firm decision. A lot theists and atheists defend their viewpoint with some vigour and I'm always interested to see how they arrived at it to begin with.
But of course agnosticsm is really the only rational conclusion you can come to on the matter
:D:D
Only joking!
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thebaldsoprano wrote: »But of course agnosticsm is really the only rational conclusion you can come to on the matter
I actually agree with this, but only because the question really isn't one that requires a definite answer*. However, if you had to make a decision for some reason, what would it be?
*EDIT: Except for me, that is. I simply could not deal with the maybe, because I would be concerned with 'what happens after you die'. After very careful consideration, I came to the conclusion that the existence of a god/s and afterlife are highly improbable and hence decided that I was an atheist. After a few depressing years of knowing that my life would end, I actually came out of it feeling very positive. There is something very natural about becoming old and dying. It is the afterlife that is a warped viewpoint, some infinite, listless metaphysical existence sounds horrible! So this is how deciding to be atheist has benefited me, where I actually happily accept my impending termination. Although I hope I get a good long innings in! 0 -
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Flamed Diving wrote: »I actually agree with this, but only because the question really isn't one that requires a definite answer*. However, if you had to make a decision for some reason, what would it be?
*EDIT: Except for me, that is. I simply could not deal with the maybe, because I would be concerned with 'what happens after you die'. After very careful consideration, I came to the conclusion that the existence of a god/s and afterlife are highly improbable and hence decided that I was an atheist. After a few depressing years of knowing that my life would end, I actually came out of it feeling very positive. There is something very natural about becoming old and dying. It is the afterlife that is a warped viewpoint, some infinite, listless metaphysical existence sounds horrible! So this is how deciding to be atheist has benefited me, where I actually happily accept my impending termination. Although I hope I get a good long innings in!
Interesting, I quite like the maybe... If I had to decide, lets see, eenie meenie mieny, mo...
Yeah, I'd definately agree on the benefits re impending termination, make the most of the life you've got and enjoy it!0 -
but do you really? Your senses tell you that you are.
Maybe you don't. I may be agnostic, but this much I'm prepared to accept.
Wow! There was a point to be found somewhere in all that waffle?I think you missed his point.From what I got he was arguing that you cannot dispell the notion of say, Zeus - doesn't mean you particularly think Zeus exists but you cannot prove he doesnt.
From my understanding many aethiests are agnostic. They don't totally rule out the chance of there being a god - its just highly unlikely.
Aye, I've recently been informed that the correct term for this is "practical atheism".0 -
So you're agnostic with respect to Zeus and godzilla and gravity, yes?thebaldsoprano wrote: »Maybe you don't. I may be agnostic, but this much I'm prepared to accept.
Wow! There was a point to be found somewhere in all that waffle?
Aye, I've recently been informed that the correct term for this is "practical atheism".0 -
but you only believe that you were typing on your keyboard or are you concluding that it did happen due to the evidence supplied i.e. your senses? Are you open to the alternative that you were not typing on your keyboard?thebaldsoprano wrote: »Maybe you don't. I may be agnostic, but this much I'm prepared to accept.
or agnostic aethiest would be the technical word.thebaldsoprano wrote: »Wow! There was a point to be found somewhere in all that waffle?
Aye, I've recently been informed that the correct term for this is "practical atheism".0 -
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but you only believe that you were typing on your keyboard or are you concluding that it did happen due to the evidence supplied i.e. your senses?
I believe that I was tying and am concluding that it happened.
second-new-thing-learned-todayor agnostic aethiest would be the technical word. 0 -
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Maybe by the standards in that Christianity forum thingy, I wouldn't regard it as so.I'm certain my argument was concise,you just chose to ignore it.
Correct.I said that you cannot disprove things like Zeus, fairies, the possibility of gravity not working... etc etc... Yet you live your life as though you know for certain that they're untrue.
You didn't say anything, you asked a load of meaningless questions.And so my point was that if you were to extend your logic vis-a-vis the Abrahamic god to these other ideas and deities, then it doesn't make sense to be anything but agnostic with respect to them.
Wow! Impressed
Well, I'm not sure why you'd want to apply logic applied to the existence/non existence of God to an idea such as gravity.
Gravity is a mathematical model, I really don't see what that's got to do with the argument.
As for deities, afaik, Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad and the like all existed and were by all accounts pretty cool dudes, maybe one of them was on to something maybe not, I've no way of knowing.That was more than one line but I hope it's still concise enough.
It's really not that diffcult How about:
Extending your logic to other ideas and deities wouldn't make much sense.0 -
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The point about gravity is that you can drop an apple 99 times and it'll always go down at pretty much the same speed. But who's to say that the 100th time it won't shoot up into the sky? Or plummet down at 100x the normal speed?
Yet you live your life as though the force of gravity will remain constant. Otherwise you wouldn't get into an airplane.
We live our life based on assumptions, so if you want to be completely accurate, you'd have to say that you're agnostic with respect to gravity as well as most other things. But you don't. So I don't see why you would feel the need to highlight that agnosticism is the logical position to take with respect to theism.thebaldsoprano wrote: »Fair enough, it wouldn't work for me right now, but I'm starting to understand atheism a little more, thanks!
Woohoo!!! That's a start :pac: We'll be waiting to welcome you when you do decide to take that step towards agnosticism
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The point about gravity is that you can drop an apple 99 times and it'll always go down at pretty much the same speed. But who's to say that the 100th time it won't shoot up into the sky? Or plummet down at 100x the normal speed?
Yet you live your life as though the force of gravity will remain constant. Otherwise you wouldn't get into an airplane.
We live our life based on assumptions, so if you want to be completely accurate, you'd have to say that you're agnostic with respect to gravity as well as most other things. But you don't. So I don't see why you would feel the need to highlight that agnosticism is the logical position to take with respect to theism.
Ahh, beginning to see a bit more where you're coming from. Yeah I can see your point but I think it's based on an assumption that the odds of God existing are very remote. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Guessing a bit again, but this might stem from believing in the Scientific Theory, which doesn't quite do it for me... Don't get me wrong though, it beats the hell out of pretty much anything else out there.
Now, lets say we drop one million apples to test the theory of gravity and it holds in each instance. All's fine there, no problems apart from philosophical issues.
How do we perform a similar test re the existence/non existence of God?
What are you basing your probabilities on?Woohoo!!! That's a start :pac: We'll be waiting to welcome you when you do decide to take that step towards agnosticism
Damn all this atheism/agnosticsm, I'm going back believing whatever a strange man in a costume tells me and whatever's in some book, it's easier 0 -
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steve-hosting36 wrote: »All else being equal, the simple explanation is most likely true.
That a supernatural, omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, omnipresent, transcendant being simply popped into existence?
Or that we all simply exist.
Wow, this is the first good use of rhetoric I've come across since starting to post here. Nice to see this art being used well for a change
I see your point, but you're assuming that the aforementioned being did indeed pop into existence and is benevolent.
Let me ask the same question using slightly different lingo:
Was the universe created by and omnipotent being or does it simply exist?
Personally, I'd rate the odds at about 50/50.0 -
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