N22 - Macroom to Ballyvourney (Macroom Bypass) [open to traffic]

confidentjosh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119951519#Comment_119951519

He wants the roundabout to be made permanent? He's some clown. Thats the danger with opening up these new temporary layouts. People and locals get used to the layout and want it made permanent and then of course the politicians will use it to campaign on.

There may well be a planning risk with wanting this to become a permanent junction. The original proposal was for 4 junctions and if you look to keep this one permanent there might be a significant delay in the final opening of the full scheme. You also leave yourself open to a JR I'd imagine.

confidentjosh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119952159#Comment_119952159

Yeah quite possibly I'd say. People on here thinking this type of junction would be cheap are living in clown cuckoo land I'm afraid.

confidentjosh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119952160#Comment_119952160

Exactly. Putting a roundabout in the middle of a long length of dual carriageway thats supposed to bypass the whole area and not be a distributor road would be very dangerous indeed.

Mrs Dempsey

"Michael Creed .........wants to make it permanent!

Seriously or is it April 1st?

As a temporary terminus it suffices but a mini asymmetric roundabout as an inline feature - seriously!

I'd take Creed off for a HIA

confidentjosh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119953099#Comment_119953099

😂 These clowns are normally very serious about this stuff. Politicians shouldn't be allowed anywhere near decision making when it comes to the delivery of infrastructure. Local parish politics gets in the way and often alters for the worse what was supposed to be delivered.

This was one of the main issues with opening a temporary junction at this location. I think most would have no issue with the temporary junction until the western end of the project has been finished as it would also operate as a satisfactory end of road layout on a temporary basis. But having it there now for several months will also only lead to locals wanting to have it made permanent which will obviously attract the politicians who'll see what way the wind is blowing as usual.

Markcheese

Doesn't Michael Creed live and own land in carrigaphucca ?

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119959250#Comment_119959250

No, all his interests are in and around Macroom town. From the Register of Member's Interests:

CREED, Michael (Cork North-West)

1. Occupations Etc. ……...….. Landlord: 1, Sullane Weirs, Killarney Road, Macroom, Co. Cork.

2. Shares Etc. ……………….. Nil

3. Directorships ………………Nil

4. Land (including property) …

(1) 57 Main Street, Macroom: letting-commercial unit & 3 apartments;

(2) 95 Railway View: residential letting (apt);

(3) The Lodge, Codrum, Macroom: residential letting;

(4) 1 Emir Court, Glenbeigh, Co. Kerry: holiday home. Other Information Provided: Personal use.

Codrum is the townland from around where the Millstreet Road ends in Macroom to about halfway between Macroom and the temporary junction. (Mapped here on this handy website: Codrum Townland, Co. Cork (townlands.ie) ) It's unlikely to be anywhere where the temporary junction would be of benefit.

Markcheese

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119959624#Comment_119959624

My mistake so ..

marno21

Nothing to do with Michael Creed's personal interests. Michael Creed is an excellent public representative and of course will raise interests of his constituents, especially the ones from his own community. No need for the cynicism.

The fact is that there is poor access to the new route from west of Macroom and its large hinterland. Compare this route to the new N5, Castlebar has 3 exits and a roundabout west of the town. Macroom has 1 exit and no access from west of the town. Of course when a temporary access is added at the western end and locals start using it and see how useful it is, there will be immense clamour to retain it when the closure is advanced.

The temporary roundabout cannot stay though. But I do wonder if there's potential for there to be a half GSJ added at Carrigaphooca with east facing slips only.

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119960421#Comment_119960421

When the new road is built, the locals will be no worse off then they are now - in fact they'll be better off because their local roads will now be devoid of long-distance traffic.

If they follow the example of the stupidity (another word for political interference) that was done in Castlebar, then they'll plonk a roundabout in the midst of a dual carriageway - in other words they'll make the current temporary one permanent.

As to building a GSJ where the current roundabout is, we haven't (yet) got to the stage of randomly throwing GSJs next to nothing at all - which is exactly what it would be.

nordydan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p767yoQXDAs

New video on Cork County Council Youtube channel. Slightly better views of tie-in

KrisW1001

The roundabout signs at the tie-ins are really, really misleading. Good job they’re not permanent.

@marno21 “The fact is that there is poor access to the new route from west of Macroom and its large hinterland.”

That hinterland is large, because it’s very sparsely populated. But the solution to poor western access to Macroom town is not to add a junction in the middle of nowhere, 6km from there. Instead, the existing Millstreet Road junction should not have been placed where it was, but instead should have been about 500m further west with a dedicated link back to the R582 for Millstreet, and a new link road behind the houses facing Millstreet road that would land on the Killarney Road west of the Old Triangle. (Bonus: the residential end of Millstreet road would see a dramatic drop in goods traffic).

Now, I suspect you know Macroom much better than me, so maybe you know why something like that wasn’t chosen, because it’s a bit of a mystery to me... the hauliers and the quarry operating out of Millstreet road complaining about the sharp right-turn needed when coming from Cork since the plans were submitted.

peter.teahan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119962678#Comment_119962678

The Millstreet junction was a must as a good share of the traffic comes from that direction every morning and returns every evening.

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119962678#Comment_119962678

(I should start by saying I'm not staunchly advocating a junction at Carrigaphooca - but I do understand where the clamour for it is coming from)

I think your solution would have cost a good bit more but not made much of a difference to this. There's a lot of houses along that road west of the Auld Triangle and squeezing it in may have been difficult.

TBH I'm not sure why access at Carrigaphooca was omitted. I did think cost and geography might be an issue, it's a tight squeeze around there with the river and the embankments/cuttings - but you could easily put one in 600/700m west of the current temp roundabout with a link road. IMO if there was enough pressure at the time one would have been added - just look at the Croagh junction on the M21 which was added after some local disquiet.

I think if you want to get maximum value out of the new road, a new partial GSJ at Carrigaphooca would be useful. It would take some more long distance traffic out of Macroom as traffic coming from Cill na Martra and Re na nDoiri and the surrounding areas has to navigate at least part of the town to get to the new road. I know it's not massive volumes and when you do the sums it may not be worthwhile but there is a long distance between the Ballyvourney junction and Millstreet Road junction, and the junction at Millstreet Road cannot be accessed from the west without at least negotiating the western part of the town, and with the town being quieter now, you will have people who will go through the town instead of going west along Millstreet Road to go back east on the bypass.

(I'm sure a similar issue popped up with the R618 - it's a busy route into Macroom but there is no feasible way of adding access there with the 2 rivers and the general layout of the area).

I think we can all agree that retaining the temp roundabout beyond the construction phase is not a runner.

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119962832#Comment_119962832

I wasn’t saying to remove it, just to move it slightly west so that there’d be enough space for a full dumb-bell without knocking down houses. Right now, it’s a roundabout for eastbound traffic, but a T-junction for westbound, which makes it easy for people heading in to Cork, but slower when they come back.

@marno - a proper junction near Carrigaphuca would have been really expensive, and the traffic really isn’t high here. Plus that traffic is predominantly local, and a National road is supposed to be for longer-distance travel. Local traffic could be better accommodated by improvement to the old N22, and that’s going to become possible now that it’s not on the only east-west route in the region.

I had another think about it, and upgrading the Millstreet junction to a proper dumb-bell and providing an easier turn back to “old N22 westbound” is probably a better idea (existing scheme in black, additions in pink):

serfboard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119963014#Comment_119963014

Marno, I'm really surprised at you making this point. One could point to any long gap between junctions on our motorway network and decry that the locals who live between don't have access to the road. However, like in other places there are not that many people living there, and in fact, adding a junction will only encourage the kind of one-off housing that is responsible for a lot of the car dependency that is choking our towns and cities, that prevents our towns from gaining the critical mass whereby good public transport could be provided, and that generally prevents us building good infrastructure because we have to disperse bits of it all over the place.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119963469#Comment_119963469

Yep, ultimately this is a bypass not a distributor. I'm with you on this, no need for additional junctions.

I understand why those local people want the additional junction, but the route is far too critical from a national perspective.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119963434#Comment_119963434

Yeah exactly as you say: traffic isn’t high, traffic is predominantly local, and a National road is supposed to be for longer-distance travel. Local traffic could be better accommodated by improvement to the old N22.

TeaPot918

Is it still rumoured to open at 2pm on Friday or a different time?

yannakis

Do we have any indications what the old N22 section will be renamed to?

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119967772#Comment_119967772

It was R608 in the planning app but

Coolcower-R584 junction will become the R584

R618-Carrigaphooca will become the R618.

Presumably the few hundred metres in between will be an L road.

peter.teahan

So what time tomorrow :) ?

peter.teahan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119969979#Comment_119969979

From Aindrias Moynihan on FB - Official launch starts at 11am and barriers open for traffic from 2pm. Safe journey!

Salvadoor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055297495/n22-macroom-to-ballyvourney-macroom-bypass-under-construction

5,315 days or over 14 and a half years since this thread was opened it's Christmas Macroom By-Pass Eve.

With the help of God/Allah/Buddha/Mohammad/Jebus/whatever-you're-having-yourself I'll never set wheels in that god-forsaken town or any of the rat-runs around it ever again. Happy driving tomorrow afternoon to the LONG-SUFFERING commuters of the Southwest.

I'll be on it 1st thing Monday morning and contemplating popping a bottle of Champagne to mark the occasion ;-)

Brendan75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971021#Comment_119971021

Spot on Salvadoor! Decrepit shabby old town and the townspeople demolished the only piece of ancient Irish heritage, Macroom Castle, as old as Blarney Castle.

The joke is that there is a castle symbol on the new motorway signs for Macroom town. Anybody that makes a detour to see the castle will feel cheated and dismayed by the destruction of this ancient piece of Irish heritage.

peter.teahan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971021#Comment_119971021

Hear, hear... and watch out Ballyvourney/Ballymakeera as your days are numbered too :)

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119970678#Comment_119970678

Good to see some details, but is there really a need to spend three hours to “officially launch” this? It is a road, not a party fundraiser...

confidentjosh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119971589#Comment_119971589

I think you'll find that the FFG pr machine will have to big this one up as much as they possibly can. Therefore they will need the maximum amount of time possible for the taking of photographs, the cutting of silly ribbons etc as well as the numerous tv/radio/paper interviews. They'll look to make as much political gain from this as they possibly can.

Jayuu

I would suggest that the road was probably always due to open at 2pm irrespective of whatever time the official launch was set for.

Brendan75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119792539#Comment_119792539

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119683030#Comment_119683030

It would appear to me that Cork County Council has not applied to An Bord Pleanala for permission to alter the terms of the permission for the bypass development made on 7th April 2011. Local Authorities are required to do so under the Planning and Development Act 2000. This is a material change to the 2011 approval.  

There was only one application by Cork County Council to ABP to alter the terms of the 2011 permission for the bypass development. This application was in 2018 for permission to move existing 110kV overhead lines to facilitate the approved road development. It required an inspector’s report on the impact on the environment at the proposed location.

How can Cork County Council breach planning and development legislation by installing an unauthorized junction and roundabout on a National Road which is opening to the Public tomorrow?